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Ammo and Reloading Factory Ammunition, Reloading, Components, Load Data and more.

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  #1  
Old 07-10-2019, 4:15 PM
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Default 9mm 124 vs. 125 and RN vs. HP?

Is there a huge variance between the load data for the above? I noticed for 125 grain OAL is 1.075 and not 1.060. also noticed some data is for HP vs. RN. Thanks for entertaining a rookie question.
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Old 07-10-2019, 9:35 PM
hambam105 hambam105 is offline
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No BFD.
Just don't use plated bullets.
Cast or real jacketed bullets will do.
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Old 07-10-2019, 9:52 PM
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Why not plated? Most of us have run a LOT of plated with no problem at all.
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Old 07-10-2019, 10:41 PM
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Yeah, the 125gr 1.075 OAL are plated vs. the 124gr JHP. Cost is the reason I'm planning to go with the 125gr.
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:06 PM
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FWIW, I started loading some Missouri coated bullets last week and went to the range yesterday with a few hundred, They work very well.

I've never been a fan of plated bullets.

http://missouribullet.com/details.ph...20&secondary=8
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Old 07-11-2019, 3:52 AM
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I prefer full house (semi-)jackets in .357 Magnum, but for .38 and 9mm: wax-lubed lead, coated (PC) and plated do just fine from all MFRs.
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Old 07-11-2019, 5:04 AM
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What I usually do is compare the length of the bullet used in my loading manual to the bullet I plan on using and make adjustments in my OAL to ensure the internal case volume remains the same. Just make sure you’re using the same weight bullets.

You can find bullet lengths using this database
http://www.shootforum.com/forum/bulletdb.html

Last edited by KevinA.; 07-11-2019 at 5:06 AM..
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Old 07-11-2019, 6:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinA. View Post
What I usually do is compare the length of the bullet used in my loading manual to the bullet I plan on using and make adjustments in my OAL to ensure the internal case volume remains the same. Just make sure youíre using the same weight bullets.

You can find bullet lengths using this database
http://www.shootforum.com/forum/bulletdb.html

This is what I started to do early on with reloading and is good advice. My personal database includes seating depth of all the bullets and loads I've ever tested so it's pretty easy for me to work up a load for a new (to me) bullet.


Quote:
Originally Posted by johnk518 View Post
Is there a huge variance between the load data for the above? I noticed for 125 grain OAL is 1.075 and not 1.060. also noticed some data is for HP vs. RN. Thanks for entertaining a rookie question.
Depending on the bullet design, and data source used, there can be large differences in load data. Large enough to be extremely dangerous to a new reloader if they're not careful.
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Old 07-12-2019, 2:38 AM
hambam105 hambam105 is offline
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Plated bullets were designed in France at the Fer'shet factory.

You will never get a proper & consistent crimp on a plated bullet due to the way the plated bullet was made.

With enough bullet bearing surface you might get away with a fer'shet crimp using a revolver bullet, or a say a .30 cal
rifle bullet ~1,500 fps. But on a 9X19mm, ain't happening.

Recreational pistol shooters who emphasize accuracy such as in PPC or Bianchi figured this out in the early 1990s.

But if all your targets are close and large and the RO will let you shoot a 'Do-Over', and you want to look good, and you
want to save money while looking good...Well, there is a reason why French bullets remain popular among the uninitiated & unconcerned.
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Old 07-12-2019, 4:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder View Post
Why not plated? Most of us have run a LOT of plated with no problem at all.
Generally, accuracy its not as good with plated bullets as it is with others. From best to worst, it is usually jacketed, cast, coated, plated.
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Old 07-12-2019, 8:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailormilan2 View Post
Generally, accuracy its not as good with plated bullets as it is with others. From best to worst, it is usually jacketed, cast, coated, plated.


Probably true. However at most handgun distances itís not that big a diff. The big advantage of plated is cleaning. They are much cleaner than lead and a helluva lot cheaper than jacketed.
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:08 PM
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Sacrifice money, sacrifice accuracy, induce uncertainty to crimp consistency because plated bullets foul the barrel
less than cast or jacketed bullets do. Did I read that correctly? Hmmm...I'll buy that.
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Old 07-14-2019, 1:54 PM
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So skipping the Plated vs. jacketed argument, does OAL (per bullet weight) affect performance? Example: I noticed almost ALL of my factory loads are about 1.115 OAL regardless of 147, 124, 115, 90 HP FN or RN. but one book (Lyman) states for 124 gr it should be 1.060. I am left believing that anywhere between 1.060 and 1.115 should be fine. Is that a fair understanding?

Eventually I'll worry about specific performance but right now I'm just looking for "the middle of the road".

Thanks!
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Old 07-14-2019, 2:40 PM
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Do the "plunk test" on the barrel of the gun you plan on using. The difference with the bullets you mentioned have more to do with the ogive (shape) than anything else in my opinion.

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/2...ting-your-oal/

After getting the correct length then you can start with different powder loads. I've done the plunk test and it varies with different bullets although they were all 124's. I use the 124's in my USPSA Production guns except for the Glocks. I then use 150's.
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Old 07-14-2019, 2:56 PM
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They all drop in and out, and turn fine. headspace looks good too. I was just wondering why the 124 reload data says 1.06 OAL? I did notice they seem to be "shorter" in the magazine but they seem to cycle fine (haven't fired just manually racking it). I've been using the OAL like a rule and am beginning to wonder if it's more like a suggestion.
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Old 07-14-2019, 6:41 PM
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Short OAL's are necessary for some guns like the CZ's, Tanfoglio's & etc. The short OAL seems to guarantee it will function in all 9mm's (just a guess on my part). I use an OAL of 1.130, but my guns (CZ, Tanfo) have been throated. My Glock doesn't need to be throated and runs the 1.130 length just fine. But its a 150 grain.

*Forgot to mention....The other factor in determining OAL is your magazine. If its too long it won't fit/function in the mag.

Last edited by oddjob; 07-14-2019 at 6:46 PM..
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Old 07-14-2019, 7:18 PM
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Default 9mm 124 vs. 125 and RN vs. HP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnk518 View Post
Is there a huge variance between the load data for the above? I noticed for 125 grain OAL is 1.075 and not 1.060. also noticed some data is for HP vs. RN. Thanks for entertaining a rookie question.


In Hornady manual, OAL or COL are for min-spec chamber.

Last edited by Jasonz; 08-24-2019 at 7:41 AM..
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Old 07-15-2019, 6:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailormilan2 View Post
Generally, accuracy its not as good with plated bullets as it is with others. From best to worst, it is usually jacketed, cast, coated, plated.
Generally this is a myth.
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Old 07-15-2019, 6:42 AM
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I'm pretty confident that the tenth of an inch potential gain in group size, from a pistol round, is a reasonable trade off for large money savings and time savings from not having to be cleaning cast lead, for the vast majority of folks. Especially someone who admits to being a rookie right off the bat.

"Don't shoot plated bullets because they're less accurate" is about as silly as "don't drive a Honda Accord to the grocery store because a McLaren is much faster and takes corners better."

Last edited by Spyder; 07-15-2019 at 6:44 AM..
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Old 07-15-2019, 6:43 AM
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And besides. The 45acp 185 grain plated bullet load I just put together, tested, did a big run of, and retested off a rest is one of the best shooting 50 foot pistol ammo loads I've found to date.
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Old 07-15-2019, 7:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder View Post
I'm pretty confident that the tenth of an inch potential gain in group size, from a pistol round, is a reasonable trade off for large money savings and time savings from not having to be cleaning cast lead, for the vast majority of folks. Especially someone who admits to being a rookie right off the bat.

"Don't shoot plated bullets because they're less accurate" is about as silly as "don't drive a Honda Accord to the grocery store because a McLaren is much faster and takes corners better."
Have you ever heard of coated bullets..?
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Old 07-16-2019, 7:06 AM
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Have you heard about the price of tea in china? 😁
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Old 07-17-2019, 10:31 PM
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COL (Cartridge Overall Length) is NOT dependent on bullet weight or anything else other than the variables of your gun and the bullet's geometry.
Per Ramshot:
“SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH (COL)
It is important to note that the SAAMI COL values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must be seen as a guideline only.
The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination.
This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as
1) magazine length ed. (space) and when the feed lips release the cartridge
2) freebore-lead-lede dimensions of the barrel,
3) ogive or profile of the projectile and
4) position of cannelure or crimp groove.
• Always begin loading at the "Start Load".
• Increase in 2% increments towards the Maximum Load.
• Watch for signs of excessive pressure.
• Never exceed the Maximum Load.”
Your COL (OAL) is determined by your barrel and your gun and your magazine and the specific bullet you are using.
What worked in a pressure barrel or in my gun has very little to do with what will work in your gun. Load a couple of dummy rounds (no powder and no primer) to the max. COL and see if it fits your magazine, feeds in your gun, and chambers in your barrel.
Seat the bullet slightly deeper until you achieve all three of these goals. This is the COL for you in your gun with that make of bullet.
Load data for a 124 or 125gn bullet will be the same, within the limits of the lot of powder used for testing and other load variables.
I say don't waste money on plated bullets because:
1) they are less accurate then either cast/swaged lead or jacketed
2) you can buy better jacketed bullets from Powder Valley (Zero bullets) or direct from Precision Delta.
Of course, accuracy isn't much issue if you are shooting at less than 50 feet and all you need is to hit a 6" circle.
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