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Long Distance Shooting Discuss tools, techniques, tips and theories of long distance shooting

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  #1  
Old 03-11-2019, 1:39 AM
mtenenhaus mtenenhaus is offline
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Default Grip and Shoulder pressure technique help for Long range precision off bench or prone

Hoping to gain some insight into how best to grip and shoulder the rifle for long range shooting from a bench or prone position.

I've seen examples advocating not wrapping the thumb around the handgrip but rather laying the thumb alongside

I've seen advocated either a firm inset of the stock to the infraclavicular / pectoral region.

And finally I've also seen advocated minimal inset of the recoil pad to the chest.

Wondering if there is a concensus with respect to precision type shooting. Granted more dynamic sports would necessitate a very secure bond to the rifle.

Thank you
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Old 03-11-2019, 6:43 AM
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what matters is managing the recoil in a consistent way every shot.

however you do that is up to you
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Old 03-11-2019, 1:37 PM
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Checkout the Gunworks Podcast Long Range Pursuit. Episode 22. Two top shooters that were sniper trainers talk about this very subject. I think youíll find it very interesting. At least I did.

Other than watching videos and listening to podcast, the best way to develop these skills is through a class.
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Old 03-11-2019, 3:40 PM
mtenenhaus mtenenhaus is offline
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NorCal thank you, i'm certain you're correct. i've already scheduled a class and in addition wish to learn as much as i can in the intervening time. I'll check out the podcast.

Broadside, no doubt you're correct. Just trying to learn from others, see what's worked for them or perhaps what did not work from them.
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Old 03-11-2019, 3:47 PM
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I think the most important points are having a rifle that is setup correct to your body (length of pull, scope height / eye relief, etc), and creating a stable shooting platform, i.e. shooting bags and bipod/tripods for support, and what so many people don't do that I have seen is getting their spine aligned with the rifle, which ultimately is part of recoil management.

I shoot with both my thumb to the side and wrapped, it just depends on my shooting position, and how well supported the rifle is. if I have the rifle all bagged up, and can basically let go of it and not have it move, thumb to the side, but if I physically have to support the rifle more, then thumb wrapped.
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Old 03-11-2019, 4:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadside View Post
what matters is managing the recoil in a consistent way every shot.
^^^This for sure but, there are other factors as well...such as rifle weight and caliber amongst others.

I shoot 600 yd & 1K benchrest. My <17lb light gun has barrels in 6mm Dasher, 6.5x.284 Shehane and .284 Shehane.

As a Dasher, my cheek touches the stock but, no real pressure. The buttstock rests against my shoulder softly (just so it doesn't recoil back and slap me).

As a .284, it gets cheek pressure and the stock gets pulled against my shoulder. It shoots better with a harder hold than the "almost" free recoil as a Dasher.


-Rick
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Old 03-11-2019, 4:32 PM
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There are "preferred" methods of recoil management but it is highly dependent on your body type and physical nature/stature.

Myself, I prefer to shoot my pistol gripped bolt gun with a loose grip, tucked in fairly tight but without pulling it in. I preload my bipod to make that happen. Otherwise I pull with the pistol grip but don't squeeze it tight.
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Old 03-11-2019, 4:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Switchbarrel View Post
^^^This for sure but, there are other factors as well...such as rifle weight and caliber amongst others.

I shoot 600 yd & 1K benchrest. My <17lb light gun has barrels in 6mm Dasher, 6.5x.284 Shehane and .284 Shehane.

As a Dasher, my cheek touches the stock but, no real pressure. The buttstock rests against my shoulder softly (just so it doesn't recoil back and slap me).

As a .284, it gets cheek pressure and the stock gets pulled against my shoulder. It shoots better with a harder hold than the "almost" free recoil as a Dasher.


-Rick
But are you not doing those different methods consistently for each? Obviously the methods can and do vary but as long as you do it the same every time you get the best results.
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Old 03-11-2019, 8:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadside View Post
But are you not doing those different methods consistently for each? Obviously the methods can and do vary but as long as you do it the same every time you get the best results.
I think if you re-read the first sentence, youíll see I was saying, ďin addition to...Ē, while trying to answer the question as asked (actual handling of the rifle).

Consistency is key, but thereís other factors to also consider based on the OPís question.

If I may digress on the consistency angle, you need to include consistency in your loads as well.

We are saying the same thing, Iím explaining how I get there (which was how I took the original question)

Good shooting,
-Rick
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Old 03-11-2019, 8:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Switchbarrel View Post
I think if you re-read the first sentence, youíll see I was saying, ďin addition to...Ē, while trying to answer the question as asked (actual handling of the rifle).



Consistency is key, but thereís other factors to also consider based on the OPís question.



If I may digress on the consistency angle, you need to include consistency in your loads as well.



We are saying the same thing, Iím explaining how I get there (which was how I took the original question)



Good shooting,

-Rick
All good!
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  #11  
Old 03-12-2019, 7:20 AM
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Like Switchbarrel says, it depends on the recoil and what your gun likes.

I free recoil my 22.250 AI off the bench, I don't free recoil the 458 Win Mag.
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Old 03-12-2019, 7:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Switchbarrel View Post
^^^This for sure but, there are other factors as well...such as rifle weight and caliber amongst others.

I shoot 600 yd & 1K benchrest. My <17lb light gun has barrels in 6mm Dasher, 6.5x.284 Shehane and .284 Shehane.

As a Dasher, my cheek touches the stock but, no real pressure. The buttstock rests against my shoulder softly (just so it doesn't recoil back and slap me).

As a .284, it gets cheek pressure and the stock gets pulled against my shoulder. It shoots better with a harder hold than the "almost" free recoil as a Dasher.


-Rick
To add on to this a bit...IMHO, this is not understood by most new shooters and with the market trend towards 6mm and 6.5mm rounds, you have a lot of guys out there not learning proper recoil management.

Its very easy to shoot a 15# plus 6.5CM. But it on a bi-pod and bag and don't muscle it around, and you're going to shoot decent. But try that with a 10# 308, 30-06, 300WM hunting rifle, and you're going to think that the guns sucks.
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Old 03-12-2019, 8:23 AM
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I think those challenges you note are what i've been struggling with. There is an inconsistency in my results. Sometimes i obtain a .35 moa and then another day the same load will yield a .9 moa

I've still got a lot to learn.
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Old 03-12-2019, 9:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtenenhaus View Post
I think those challenges you note are what i've been struggling with. There is an inconsistency in my results. Sometimes i obtain a .35 moa and then another day the same load will yield a .9 moa

I've still got a lot to learn.
How much dry fire practice do you do?

Do you have a mental checklist you go through when you place the rifle?
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Old 03-12-2019, 2:06 PM
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Body alignment behind the rifle, think of a stick man, feet wide apart(prone) butt pad in pocket formed by collar bone and shoulder. rifle should be parallel with your spine
Check length of pull, breath. dont hold your breath, fire between breaths.

If your interested in a course of instruction check out
maxordinate.com
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Old 03-12-2019, 6:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtenenhaus View Post
Hoping to gain some insight into how best to grip and shoulder the rifle for long range shooting from a bench or prone position.

I've seen examples advocating not wrapping the thumb around the handgrip but rather laying the thumb alongside
Start with your trigger finger.
It should have a 90 degree bend at the 2nd joint.
Lay your finger on the trigger with the trigger in the middle of the first pad of your finger with that 90 degree bend at the 2nd joint and then build your grip from there.
The trigger should not be in your first joint.
Your first joint should not be bent when the finger rests on the trigger.

Most people will not be able to grip the stock how it appears to be designed to grip when they have a proper trigger finger placement.

That's a deficiency of the stock or trigger that can be fixed mechanically by replacing the trigger unit with a length adjustable trigger shoe unit such as pictured below to then allow you to grip the stock AND the trigger properly or simply learning how to place the rest of your hand AFTER the trigger finger.

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Last edited by ar15barrels; 03-12-2019 at 6:10 PM..
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Old 03-12-2019, 7:50 PM
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fascinating...thank you, i'll work on these points.

So far I haven't tried prone so to date i've only fired from a bench. I hope one day to be able to work up to that. Still recovering from an injury.

when i was healthier i got into the habit of identifying my expiratory pause and maintain my body somewhat perpendicular to the axis of the rifle.

with respect to trigger pull, are you flexing/bending the first of the two joints when you pull the trigger... or are you maintaining that joint locked at 90 degrees and drawing back the hand parallel to the rifle stock?
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Old 03-12-2019, 9:09 PM
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Pull the trigger straight back. Donít bend your finger.


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Old 03-13-2019, 8:32 AM
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thank you
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Old 03-13-2019, 8:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtenenhaus View Post
with respect to trigger pull, are you flexing/bending the first of the two joints when you pull the trigger... or are you maintaining that joint locked at 90 degrees and drawing back the hand parallel to the rifle stock?
For reference, we count the joints from the fingertip towards the hand.
The first joint remains locked at 180 degrees.
The 2nd joint is tensioned to break the trigger.
The 3rd joint is where your finger meets your hand and should not really be doing anything during the trigger pull other than attaching your finger to your hand which is anchored to the side of the stock.

You should be dry firing 10x more than live firing.
You can see during dry fire if you are pulling the rifle off target or if the rifle is jumping off target from it's firing pin fall.
The first is a shooter problem and the 2nd is a mechanical problem.
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Old 03-13-2019, 3:01 PM
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thank you...your description helped a lot. you're always very helpful, i really appreciate thatl.
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Old 03-25-2019, 9:07 PM
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I find bolt gun much more prone to flaws in my techniques than a semi. Breathing technique, grip pressure, positioning, trigger control and even too much caffeine has thrown off shots for me. But with few years of practice under my belt, I should have honed my techniques on a 223 instead of 308 because it has taken me a lot efforts to overcome that recoil "flinch" from 308.

Last edited by Excommunicado; 03-25-2019 at 9:12 PM..
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Old 03-26-2019, 1:42 AM
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i understand. I do prefer low recoil calibers. hope to work on / develop proper technique

appreciate the insight

Last edited by mtenenhaus; 03-26-2019 at 7:22 AM..
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Old 03-26-2019, 2:30 AM
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Interesting thoughts. The NRA has some good info as well as DOD on effective techniques for shooting.
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