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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #121  
Old 03-25-2018, 6:21 PM
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Jan 2018 Map (Rev 2) and Table (Rev 3) updated in post #1.

San Diego County is now Light Green.
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  #122  
Old 03-25-2018, 6:35 PM
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Originally Posted by baggss View Post
Jan 2018 Map (Rev 2) and Table (Rev 3) updated in post #1.

San Diego County is now Light Green.
Shocking, but true folks!

Maybe it's crass political maneuvering on Gore's part, or maybe it reflects a true change of heart re. CCWs. (Remember, he stopped all appeals and wrote to CA9 telling them he's dropping all appeals after we won the 3-judge panel in Peruta). Either way, RIGHT NOW the best evidence is that SD Co is at least "light green."


Why do baggss and I believe that? Because of what San Diego County Gun Owners PAC posted the other day (emphasis added):
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Originally Posted by SD County Gun Owners PAC View Post
Since the changes San Diego County Gun Owners PAC forced in September the average applications have gone from 10 a month to over 10 a day and not one person has been turned down due to good cause. We know of hundreds of approved applications and their "good cause" never would have passed before September.
I encourage all San Diego residents to not believe the progress we've seen. Please, be sceptical. Please apply and report back.
Use this video to apply:
Watch "Applying for your CCW in San Diego _ Step by Step w/Additional Info" on YouTube
Be sure to also listen to all of:


When Gore is issuing CCWs when your GC is hiking/camping in the desert where there's weak/no cell coverage and therefore, long or no LE response, rather than just saying "Don't do that" or "Don't go there," you know there's been a seismic shift in SDSO's CCW policy.

NOTE WELL: while I'm saying, for many of you, now's the time to apply for a CCW in SD Co, I'm NOT taking a position on who you should vote for/against for sheriff come June.
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  #123  
Old 03-25-2018, 7:01 PM
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Some encouragement for newbies and oldies alike.

Here's the map from back in 2010. That was a couple of years before I got involved with the production of it and there are a few things I disagree with. IMO, San Mateo Co never went to light green. Only Gene H. and Gray quoting Gene said it was that way. I went through ALL of the posts from that time and, as best I can tell, it went only to yellow, if that. They may have treated Gene like light green and gave him the impression they treated everyone else the same, but that's not what other posters said.

I'm not sure if San Joaquin Co was light green then either: probably yellow.

Last, I think Riverside Co was yellow too. Although Sheriff Sniff was talking a good game at the time, IIRC, posters were saying he was still stingy with CCWs.



Now compare that to where we are today! What had been -- esp if SM Co was only yellow -- one continuous block of anti counties from Sonoma Co down the coast to San Diego Co and then over to Imperial Co has been broken apart, just like the Berlin Wall/Iron Curtain! As I have been saying for many, many years, if the federal cases don't win Carry for us, the fight will be county-by-county, and even city-by-city, within CA, just like it has been state-by-state within the USA for the past 30+ years.



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  #124  
Old 03-25-2018, 7:23 PM
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I was chatting with a guy who lives in Corona and is applying. He is saying that, from his sources and information from the county, they are accepting PP as good cause and the process is moving along fairly quickly.

I told him that people were claiming 2 year processing time and apparently only one person processing the load, he said that was not correct.

Maybe someone else can confirm they have improved and maybe even become dark green?
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  #125  
Old 03-25-2018, 7:53 PM
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Wow, amazing, all of Southern California except LA, SB and Imperial.
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  #126  
Old 03-26-2018, 5:28 AM
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Wow, amazing, all of Southern California except LA, SB and Imperial.
Huh????
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  #127  
Old 03-26-2018, 5:43 AM
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That really is amazing seeing SanD go light green.
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  #128  
Old 03-26-2018, 7:42 AM
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Originally Posted by CCWFacts View Post
Wow, amazing, all of Southern California except LA, SB and Imperial.
Looking at that now beautiful map, for the first time ever I think we're "turning the corner" and that the anti counties are now having to play defense! I feel like we in CA are where we in the USA were with the Shall Issue movement back in the late '90s to early '00s.

ETA: It used to be that when people in the SFBA asked me about CCWs, I'd say unfortunately, in the major urban counties, where most of the people are and therefore where most of the crime is, you can't get one. But as of now, for the first time in the history of CA, a majority of CAians live in counties that readily issue CCWs.
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  #129  
Old 03-26-2018, 7:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
I was chatting with a guy who lives in Corona and is applying. He is saying that, from his sources and information from the county, they are accepting PP as good cause
If we get a clear indication he's changed his position re. accepting SD = GC, dark green is a possibility. If your GC is only SD, and if you can afford to risk ~$100, go for it and let us know how you do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
and the process is moving along fairly quickly. I told him that people were claiming 2 year processing time and apparently only one person processing the load, he said that was not correct.
While he does not have his permit yet, marcusrn got his GC approved in just over 2 months.

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Originally Posted by marcusrn View Post
I called yesterday and asked cleck that I applied with on 01/12/18 about status. She said I was just approved and could get training. ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Maybe someone else can confirm they have improved and maybe even become dark green?
Next "normal" map update will be in July, ~3 months from now. While that will be after the sheriffs election, since they don't take office until January, and since CCWs aren't usually high on their list of priorities, we probably won't know of any major changes until after March 2019, when CGNers post whether they get approved or denied by the new sheriffs and what their GCs were like. The exception being in a case like SD Co, where challenger Myers has made SD = GC a part of his platform and a campaign promise.
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  #130  
Old 03-26-2018, 11:56 AM
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Why is imperial so red? You'd think it would be dark green...
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  #131  
Old 03-26-2018, 2:01 PM
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I don't think So Co should have been changed from dark red to light red. Will they issue a ccw?....yes, if you're a female real estate agent carrying enormous amounts of cash or jewelry on your person and having open houses in the boondocks out of cell coverage from 1:00am-3:00am while all sheriff cars are in the garage for repairs at the same time and Henry 1 (the helicopter) is having rotors replaced and the 911 call center is going through a software update which renders it useless....MAYBE you'll get one - and then it will be restricted to that specific time and task.
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  #132  
Old 03-26-2018, 3:06 PM
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I don't think So Co should have been changed from dark red to light red. Will they issue a ccw?....yes, if you're a female real estate agent carrying enormous amounts of cash or jewelry on your person and having open houses in the boondocks out of cell coverage from 1:00am-3:00am while all sheriff cars are in the garage for repairs at the same time and Henry 1 (the helicopter) is having rotors replaced and the 911 call center is going through a software update which renders it useless....MAYBE you'll get one - and then it will be restricted to that specific time and task.
So = Sonoma?
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  #133  
Old 03-26-2018, 7:22 PM
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Why is imperial so red? You'd think it would be dark green...
I don't know for sure... only rumors that I won't share.

Regardless, SD Co readily issuing means there's now pressure on Imperial to liberalize issuance: they'll be getting flooded with folks w/CCWs from Riverside and SD counties now. Sheriff Loera is running unopposed so this will be his, IIRC, 4th term in office.



There's nothing important in Imperial Co, just jack rabbits and coyotes.... I won't waste any time or effort trying to change it. In SoCal, only LA Co matters now. Santa Barbara Co is like the Marin Co of the county: if those wealthy, liberal elites (think Opra) want to stay unarmed (while paying veterans and/or LEOs to act as their armed bodyguards), that's fine with me. I don't care about them.

In NorCal only SF, San Mateo Co, Santa Clara Co, Ala Co and CoCoCo matter. They are the "vital 5" we need to beat. We could win Marin, Sonoma, Napa and Yolo (and Santa Cruz) and that wouldn't change a thing. But change 1 or more of those "vital 5" in the SFBA, and that would be a MAJOR win, with a major impact on crime, # of CCWers, size of population liberated, indirect impact on local, state and national politics and/or culturally. Those "vital 5" of the 9 SFBA counties are key. The rest are just "gravy", territory to change their colors on the map.

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I don't think So Co should have been changed from dark red to light red. Will they issue a ccw?....yes, if you're a female real estate agent carrying enormous amounts of cash or jewelry on your person and having open houses in the boondocks out of cell coverage from 1:00am-3:00am while all sheriff cars are in the garage for repairs at the same time and Henry 1 (the helicopter) is having rotors replaced and the 911 call center is going through a software update which renders it useless....MAYBE you'll get one - and then it will be restricted to that specific time and task.
I don't recall the basis for Sonoma's color (707 folk would rather post "Banter", than organize and plan to push for CCWs in the County Concealed Carry Info thread for Sonoma). baggss may remember since he once changed it to yellow and then switched back again.

I do know that when we won Peruta in '14, Sonoma SO flipped immediately to SD = GC, but then went back a week or two later saying they'll wait until the mandate issues. So, IOW, they were ready and waiting to go SD = GC, but TPTB made them change their mind....

Then a year or two ago, Sonoma SO tried again to accept SD = GC in exchange for getting fully reimbursed for doing psych evals on ALL CCW applicants. IOW, the don't mind GGs w/guns, but they wanted to really make sure you're a GG by pushing GMC high before gutting GC. But the NRA, in its infinite wisdom via Michel & Associates law firm threatened to sue them to stop them from charging more than the statutory maximum for psych evals. So, once again, Sonoma SO backed off from SD = GC and you've got what you've got today....

"Thanks, NRA!"

If I were in charge, I'd have let them charge those extra fees. I'd let them issue a TON of CCWs where SD = GC for folks willing to pay those extra fees (wealthy or just really wanted a CCW). Then, after thousands of Sonoma Co residents now had "skin in the game"/a vested interest in making the sheriff issue CCWs, I'd sue them for charging too much. The sheriff, probably, would be forced to refund the excess fees, and all those people would DEMAND he not take back their CCWs, but rather keep on accepting SD = GC, but just do psych evals on the few he felt necessary for initial permits. That's how I would have handled it, with an outcome similar to what happened initially w/Hutchens in OC: there were too many former CCWers to just give up and "fade away". Instead they rallied and Hutchens eventually gave in (after cleaning out the corruption), and that's why OC today as ~14,000 CCWers.
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  #134  
Old 03-26-2018, 7:38 PM
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While I don't recall the basis for the color (707 folk seem to love to post in Banter, rather than in County Concealed Carry thread for Sonoma), baggss may since he once changed it to yellow and then back again.

I do know that when we won Peruta in '14, Sonoma SO flipped immediately to SD = GC, but then went back a week or two later saying they'll wait until the mandate issues. So, IOW, they were ready and waiting to go SD = GC, but TPTB made them change their mind....

Then a year or two ago, Sonoma SO tried again to accept SD = GC in exchange for getting fully reimbursed for doing psych evals on ALL CCW applicants. IOW, the don't mind GGs w/guns, but they just really wanted to make sure you're a GG by pushing GMC high while gutting GC. But the NRA, in its infinite wisdom via Michel & Associates law firm threatened to sue them to stop them from charging more than the statutory maximum for psych evals. So, once again, Sonoma SO backed off from SD = GC and you've got what you've got today....

"Thanks, NRA!"
Sonoma never wanted to issue ccw's. Freitas was a black and white individual so followed the law of Peruta for 14 days when the ruling wad handed down. As soon as it was appealed on 2/28/14, they saw that as their "out"and stopped. I submitted on 2/28 and was denied. I talked to Freitas about the psyche evaluation later and he said the pricing was done as a deterrent. They were (and are currently) never wanting to issue. It is not a light red county.

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  #135  
Old 03-26-2018, 8:02 PM
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Sonoma never wanted to issue ccw's. Freitas was a black and white individual so followed the law of Peruta for 14 days when the ruling wad handed down. As soon as it was appealed on 2/28/14, they saw that as their "out"and stopped. I submitted on 2/28 and was denied.
I'd be bitter too. But then again, you'd just have been denied 2 yrs later on renewal if you did get issued back then.

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I talked to Freitas about the psyche evaluation later and he said the pricing was done as a deterrent. They were (and are currently) never wanting to issue. It is not a light red county.
If the NRA hadn't stopped him re. the psych eval, Sonoma Co would be "dark green." The map only deals w/GC, not GMC, illegal fees or anything else.

When you can buy your way to getting SD = GC, that's a trade I'd make!

Last, the map states a county's actual practice may be off by 1 color. So, if you think Sonoma should be dark red (or yellow), light red on the map covers it too.

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  #136  
Old 03-26-2018, 8:30 PM
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Huh????
Santa Barbara
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Old 03-26-2018, 8:35 PM
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Why is imperial so red? You'd think it would be dark green...
Would think, but it is a primarily agricultural and highly welfare-dependent county. Probably one of the poorest outside of the Central Valley.
We can thank Imperial for giving us "One Bill Gil" Cedillo who did nothing but push drivers licenses for illegals until Davis signed it. Davis's recall took the wind out of his sails for a while, he's now taking advantage of LA residents.

The Imperial County Sheriff is quite proud of the fact that the only county with fewer civilian CCW in this state is San Francisco.
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  #138  
Old 03-26-2018, 8:57 PM
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Would think, but it is a primarily agricultural and highly welfare-dependent county. Probably one of the poorest outside of the Central Valley.
We can thank Imperial for giving us "One Bill Gil" Cedillo who did nothing but push drivers licenses for illegals until Davis signed it. Davis's recall took the wind out of his sails for a while, he's now taking advantage of LA residents.

The Imperial County Sheriff is quite proud of the fact that the only county with fewer civilian CCW in this state is San Francisco.
Fortunately, like I said, in SoCal, neither Imperial nor Santa Barbara matter. If we won both of those and not LA Co, it would change nothing. If we won LA Co and neither of those, we will still have won SoCal.
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  #139  
Old 03-26-2018, 9:02 PM
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Sonoma never wanted to issue ccw's. Freitas was a black and white individual so followed the law of Peruta for 14 days when the ruling wad handed down. As soon as it was appealed on 2/28/14, they saw that as their "out"and stopped. I submitted on 2/28 and was denied. I talked to Freitas about the psyche evaluation later and he said the pricing was done as a deterrent. They were (and are currently) never wanting to issue. It is not a light red county.
Upon further reflection (and having eaten dinner), I suggest you harness your anger into something constructive, like starting a county level organization to increase CCW issuance, just like San Diego County Gun Owners PAC. Start it now so that when openings appear (new chiefs needed in cities' PDs, new candidates running for sheriff), you'll be ready to act. That would be a better use of your time and effort than arguing over whether Sonoma Co should be light or dark red.

As for me, like I already said, Sonoma and the others don't really matter, even in NorCal. I won't spend time on them. I don't get paid for this. I'll just focus on the "vital 5" in the SFBA.
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  #140  
Old 03-27-2018, 6:42 AM
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Santa Barbara
Thanks, I never think of them being in So Cal like the other SB/San Bernardino.
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Old 03-27-2018, 6:45 AM
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I don't know for sure... only rumors that I won't share.

Regardless, SD Co readily issuing means there's now pressure on Imperial to liberalize issuance: they'll be getting flooded with folks w/CCWs from Riverside and SD counties now.
Don't understand the thinking behind this.
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Old 03-27-2018, 7:03 AM
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Don't understand the thinking behind this.
What I think he means is that folks with newly issued permits in SD and Riverside county will be crossing into Imperial county during the course of their daily routines. There are probably as many CCW's from surrounding counties actually within the Imperial county limits on any given weekend as if they just started issuing.
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  #143  
Old 03-27-2018, 7:23 AM
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What I think he means is that folks with newly issued permits in SD and Riverside county will be crossing into Imperial county during the course of their daily routines. There are probably as many CCW's from surrounding counties actually within the Imperial county limits on any given weekend as if they just started issuing.
Exactly.

Like I've said before, what we're doing within CA with the SD/PP = GC movement is like what has happened and is happening within the USA with the Shall Issue/ConCarry movement.

Just as the last holdout 8 anti states are in a panic about national reciprocity passing and allowing MILLIONS of out-of-state CCWers carry within their states, so CA anti sheriffs dread having hundreds or thousands of out-of-county CA CCWers carrying within their counties.
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Old 03-27-2018, 8:15 AM
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Upon further reflection (and having eaten dinner), I suggest you harness your anger into something constructive, like starting a county level organization to increase CCW issuance, just like San Diego Gun Owners PAC. Start it now so that when openings appear (new chiefs needed in cities' PDs, new candidates running for sheriff), you'll be ready to act. That would be a better use of your time and effort than arguing over whether Sonoma Co should be light or dark red.

As for me, like I already said, Sonoma and the others don't really matter, even in NorCal. I won't spend time on them. I don't get paid for this.
Not angry, just stating the facts of the situation. And of the 3 candidates in the next election, 2 are so liberal that they would go for confiscation. The 3rd will accept ccw's as they are now, so he gets to claim "pro-ccw" by comparison.
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Old 03-27-2018, 8:44 AM
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What I think he means is that folks with newly issued permits in SD and Riverside county will be crossing into Imperial county during the course of their daily routines. There are probably as many CCW's from surrounding counties actually within the Imperial county limits on any given weekend as if they just started issuing.
Didn't make a difference in LA County.
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Old 04-17-2018, 4:14 PM
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Thank you for taking the time to put this map together. I have moved up from So Cal where I was issued a CCW and now will have to go through the process again. Nice to see my County of Residence now is dark green.
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Old 05-09-2018, 12:04 PM
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Thanks for this great discussion. Feeling VERY optimistic now. Always patriotic about USA, and someday I might even have a little bit of state pride.
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Old 05-13-2018, 2:44 PM
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Regarding the chart, I can confirm that Glendora has issued at least 2 permits. Someone I know just successfully renewed his permit and I met a Calgunner last year who had recently been issued a permit from Glendora PD. The former is a former GPD LEO, while the latter IIRC had rather exceptional good cause.
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Old 05-13-2018, 3:20 PM
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...
In NorCal only SF, San Mateo Co, Santa Clara Co, Ala Co and CoCoCo matter. They are the "vital 5" we need to beat. We could win Marin, Sonoma, Napa and Yolo (and Santa Cruz) and that wouldn't change a thing. But change 1 or more of those "vital 5" in the SFBA, and that would be a MAJOR win, with a major impact on crime, # of CCWers, size of population liberated, indirect impact on local, state and national politics and/or culturally. Those "vital 5" of the 9 SFBA counties are key. The rest are just "gravy", territory to change their colors on the map.
...
How are you certain of the bolded part (regarding major impact on crimes)? I find it hard to believe that a majority of crime is being committed on folks that would get a CCW if they could.

Think of all the democrats that live in these counties. Not a single one of them would get a CCW and at least by voting they greatly outnumber the folks that would CCW.

Criminals aren't good with numbers (I'm assuming) and would play the odds that 9.9 of 10 times they are committing a crime against someone that won't do a damn thing to defend themselves.

This is of course all my opinion as well based on how I see the counties vote. As well as how most democrats are anti-gun. Also basing it on what most of the local news has reported as crimes which I'm sure is not statistically accurate.

I'm just wondering what you are basing your opinion on.
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Old 05-13-2018, 4:57 PM
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How are you certain of the bolded part (regarding major impact on crimes)? I find it hard to believe that a majority of crime is being committed on folks that would get a CCW if they could.

...

I'm just wondering what you are basing your opinion on.
You're right: CCWs won't have a "major" impact on crime. That was just being a little to enthusiastic. I try to base my opinions re. CCWs and their use on my list of >225 incidents linked in my sig line (scattered over 2 pages of posts).
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Old 05-13-2018, 5:36 PM
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Then a year or two ago, Sonoma SO tried again to accept SD = GC in exchange for getting fully reimbursed for doing psych evals on ALL CCW applicants. IOW, the don't mind GGs w/guns, but they wanted to really make sure you're a GG by pushing GMC high before gutting GC. But the NRA, in its infinite wisdom via Michel & Associates law firm threatened to sue them to stop them from charging more than the statutory maximum for psych evals. So, once again, Sonoma SO backed off from SD = GC and you've got what you've got today....

"Thanks, NRA!"

If I were in charge, I'd have let them charge those extra fees.
And, you would have broken the law, been sued, lost and paid significant penalties. You also wouldn’t have remained in charge. The black letter law of the statute would have killed you: CA PC 26190 http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...ctionNum=26190.
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(f) (1) If psychological testing on the initial application is required by the licensing authority, the license applicant shall be referred to a licensed psychologist used by the licensing authority for the psychological testing of its own employees. The applicant may be charged for the actual cost of the testing in an amount not to exceed one hundred fifty dollars ($150).
(2) Additional psychological testing of an applicant seeking license renewal shall be required only if there is compelling evidence to indicate that a test is necessary. The cost to the applicant for this additional testing shall not exceed one hundred fifty dollars ($150).
(g) [B]Except as authorized pursuant to this section, no requirement, charge, assessment, fee, or condition that requires the payment of any additional funds by the applicant, or requires the applicant to obtain liability insurance, may be imposed by any licensing authority as a condition of the application for a license.
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Old 05-13-2018, 5:54 PM
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And, you would have broken the law, been sued, lost and paid significant penalties. You also wouldn’t have remained in charge. The black letter law of the statute would have killed you: CA PC 26190 http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...ctionNum=26190.
LOL!

Next you're going to say sheriffs do not issue to applicants who do not have proof of Good Cause -- you know, 1 of 4 requirements set by CA state law for CCW applicants. (The other 3 being country residency, GMC and passing training.)

Ah, to be young and naive again....

ETA: As I post re. what the California State Auditor found out about LASD and CCWs, I saw that you had participated in the thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...1319779&page=4). Have you already forgotten what reality is in CA (vs what is legal)???

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We found the starkest failure to follow policy at Los Angeles. Our review of 25 CCW licenses issued from fiscal years 2014–15 through 2016–17 showed that the department did not follow its CCW policy when it issued any of those licenses. Most notably, Los Angeles issued most of these licenses—24—without obtaining documentation that the applicants met its good cause requirement. The department's policy requires each applicant to submit convincing evidence of a clear and present danger to life or of great bodily harm to establish good cause. The department also requires each applicant to document that a personal threat exists. Further, of the 25 CCW licenses we reviewed, 22 were issued to individuals within the law enforcement community, including current or former law enforcement officers, judicial officers, and deputy district attorneys. In fact, our review of the 197 CCW licenses Los Angeles issued that were active as of August 2017 showed that more than half were issued to individuals in these professions. When we asked about this condition, the lieutenant responsible for reviewing CCW applications stated that individuals within the law enforcement community satisfy the department's good cause requirement by the nature of their jobs. However, making that decision based solely on the applicant's profession both directly contradicts Los Angeles's written policy—which specifically states that no position or job classification in itself shall constitute good cause for issuance—and has led the department to treat applicants inequitably based on their occupations.
From:
http://www.auditor.ca.gov/reports/2017-101/summary.html
That 2nd part I bolded violates Guillory v. County of Orange/Gates, a 14th A EP 9th Circuit case.

That report was released on their website last Dec, 5 months ago. The public all knows about this. The media reported upon it.

Be sure to let me know when LA Sheriff McDonnell gets "sued, lost and paid significant penalties. [McDonnell doesn't] remain[] in charge. The black letter law of the statute [] kill[s McDonnell]".

Until someone sues them, sheriffs -- the chief "law enforcement officers" of the county -- obey the law when they want and they violate it when they want.
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Old 05-14-2018, 5:08 AM
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Originally Posted by bigstick61 View Post
Regarding the chart, I can confirm that Glendora has issued at least 2 permits. Someone I know just successfully renewed his permit and I met a Calgunner last year who had recently been issued a permit from Glendora PD. The former is a former GPD LEO, while the latter IIRC had rather exceptional good cause.
Thanks for the info. I'll update the chart to reflect this for the upcoming July 2018 update....
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Old 05-14-2018, 8:43 PM
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Ah, to be young and naive again....
Ah, to be uninformed. I was slightly taken aback by your response because you usually are far more intelligent in your writings. Anyway, please don’t push too hard on that “young” thing, or Social Security and Medicare will stop supporting me....Naïveté left when my 1A draft card arrived in the late ‘60s. But, you’re young......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin;21637765Be sure to let me know when LA Sheriff McDonnell gets "sued, lost and paid significant penalties. [McDonnell doesn't
remain[] in charge. The black letter law of the statute [] kill[s McDonnell]".

Until someone sues them, sheriffs -- the chief "law enforcement officers" of the county -- obey the law when they want and they violate it when they want.
I know it’s been a few hours, but the issue being discussed is whether the Sheriff would have been sued when the NRA told him he would be sued. People generally sue more quickly when money is being pulled from their pockets, and that’s what the proposed psych evaluation policy would have done. If you were in charge, and as you said, went ahead with the program, you would have been sued and lost. There, that wasn’t too hard, was it?

Best.
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  #155  
Old 05-14-2018, 9:19 PM
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Ah, to be uninformed. I was slightly taken aback by your response because you usually are far more intelligent in your writings. Anyway, please don’t push too hard on that “young” thing, or Social Security and Medicare will stop supporting me....Naïveté left when my 1A draft card arrived in the late ‘60s. But, you’re young......
Not as young as I'd like to be, and not nearly as naive as I'd like to be....

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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
I know it’s been a few hours, but the issue being discussed is whether the Sheriff would have been sued when the NRA told him he would be sued.
Wrong. The issue is whether the NRA should have threatened the sheriff with a lawsuit or just let him pass along the cost of mandatory psych evals while accepting SD = GC. Whether any potential/actual individual applicant sued him on their own is a different issue.

IMO, just going by the known corruption in LASD and, like I pointed out, since the CSA's report, it is unlikely anyone would sue him on their own. Plus, if they want a CCW, suing makes no sense: you spend $$,$$$ on lawyers to get him to pull psych evals and he goes back to virtually no issuance of CCWs That's a Pyrrhic victory. Sounds like something Bloomberg would do rather than the NRA.

My position is that the NRA should have not threatened to sue. That way the sheriff would have issued a TON of CCWs for SD = GC. Better to be able to get a CCW for "normal" costs + $450 (or whatever it was their psychologist was going to charge) for an initial CCW (not mandatory with renewals, IIRC), than not to have that option and not be able to get a CCW at all (for average law-abiding folk).

(1) In time, the media would stop the hissy fit over CCWs. Just like in every state that has liberalized issuance, there's NEVER been the predicted (by the MSM and anti LEOs), "blood in the streets," "High Noon" shootouts over fender-benders and parking spaces. Remember the outcry re. campus carry in TX a year or two ago? Now there's been absolute silence from the MSM -- they don't cover it because they don't want the public to see it is no big issue.

(2) In time, esp since the MSM will stop covering it, the sheriff would get more comfortable issuing CCWs and could make the psych evals optional and just rely upon clean background checks and GMC. How can I say that? In EVERY state since '86, once a state liberalizes issuance, they NEVER go back to restrictive. That is also true for county sheriffs within CA. The ONLY exception being OC after the Carona corruption, when Hutchens pulled a lot of CCWs, but then later liberalized issuance once again. (For newbies, OC expects break 20,000 active CCWs in a year or two. IIRC, they're now ~12,000 -- already probably the most ever issued by a CA sheriff.)

If the sheriff didn't liberalize issuance more, once you've got several thousand Sonoma residents with CCWs, with "skin in the game," they'll be more likely to get active in the sheriff's race and, if someone comes along who's even more pro-CCW (get rid of mandatory psych evals), they'll throw their support behind him/her.

Sonoma accepting SD = GC would also (3) put pressure on Marin and Napa to also liberalize issuance. (Note I did NOT claim they'd bend to that pressure, but every little bit helps in the SFBA.)

(4) Last, the CA CCW GC map would look a LOT prettier with Sonoma "green".
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Old 05-14-2018, 9:23 PM
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I see this is far more important to you than I, so, I shall leave you with it.

Enjoy.
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:47 AM
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For Stanislaus County, Turlock is show in the north and Modesto to the south. Geographically it is reversed. I understand the east/west locations of the cities are going to be off due to size restrictions, but perhaps you can flip the north/south?

Second, while I know the PC doesn't specify an age for CCW permits, and I know that 18 is the minimum age for handgun possession, I'm not aware of any IAs whose policy will issue to 18-20 year olds. Every policy I've seen requires a minimum age of 21. Further, while an 18 year old can be given a handgun by their parent/grandparent, this is a rare situation that most do not have access to. I suggest changing the age exclusion for population to be 21+, and add a foot-note that while an 18-20 year old can own a handgun and could be legally granted a CCW permit, no IA policies allow for this. (At least this is my understanding. I've been trying to change my IAs mind as I have a very responsible 18 year old daughter who wants to carry. I can't seem to convince my IA that the law doesn't say they have to be 21, and proof of another IA that allows 18-20 would be great to change the IA's mind).

Great work, and thanks for all the effort!
Hey Jason,

Just wanted to let you know, I don't think you have 40 states reciprocity anymore with those permits. Minnesota dropped Nevada and Pennsylvania dropped New Hampshire non-resident permits. Just wanted to let you know so you don't end up in hot water.
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:12 PM
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Hey Jason,

Just wanted to let you know, I don't think you have 40 states reciprocity anymore with those permits. Minnesota dropped Nevada and Pennsylvania dropped New Hampshire non-resident permits. Just wanted to let you know so you don't end up in hot water.
Ya... It is very difficult to get more than 38 or 39.
AZ, UT, and FL give you the most bang for the buck.

It is not possible for a Californian to legally CCW in Colorado, New York, Hawaii, as they do not recognize CA or non-resident permits, and do not issue their own non-resident permits.

It is certainly POSSIBLE to legally carry in 44 or 45 states, but anything over 36 is going to be "onsie twosie"... a lot of work, expense, and in some cases travel, not really worth it unless you regularly travel to those states.
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Old 07-14-2018, 3:53 PM
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Ya... It is very difficult to get more than 38 or 39.
AZ, UT, and FL give you the most bang for the buck.

It is not possible for a Californian to legally CCW in Colorado, New York, Hawaii, as they do not recognize CA or non-resident permits, and do not issue their own non-resident permits.

It is certainly POSSIBLE to legally carry in 44 or 45 states, but anything over 36 is going to be "onsie twosie"... a lot of work, expense, and in some cases travel, not really worth it unless you regularly travel to those states.
South Carolina is the same way. And they will only issue non resident permits to people who own property in the state and pay property tax.

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Old 09-16-2018, 3:45 PM
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Map Update for Fall 2018.

Note: I'm not updating the table as often, maybe once a year tops. County CCW issuance numbers are increasing difficult to find. The table may eventually go away unless there is some demand for it.

Please post comments for additions and/or changes in this thread, PM or e-mail me.
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