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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 05-21-2019, 4:24 PM
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Default questions about legally storing when visiting a school campus

I am sure it has been asked and answered many times over and I'm sorry for asking again but I have to visit a school tomorrow and need a fast, clear and current answer.

I have to visit a public school. I want to make sure I am following the rules 100%. The school has police and I don't want issues of any kind.

As long as my edc is unloaded and stored in my vehicle safe with the ammo I am legal as far as the law is concerned right? Does my edc have to be unloaded and locked in the vehicle safe with my ammo before I get to the parking lot? Can I do it once I arrive? Anything I should know?

I don't have school aged kids so I haven't kept up on this very well. Thanks.
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Old 05-21-2019, 4:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapperforward View Post
I am sure it has been asked and answered many times over and I'm sorry for asking again but I have to visit a school tomorrow and need a fast, clear and current answer.

I have to visit a public school. I want to make sure I am following the rules 100%. The school has police and I don't want issues of any kind.

As long as my edc is unloaded and stored in my vehicle safe with the ammo I am legal as far as the law is concerned right? Does my edc have to be unloaded and locked in the vehicle safe with my ammo before I get to the parking lot? Can I do it once I arrive? Anything I should know?

I don't have school aged kids so I haven't kept up on this very well. Thanks.
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Old 05-21-2019, 4:40 PM
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Gun must be unloaded and both ammo and gun locked in the trunk or in a locked container, BEFORE you get onto school grounds.
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Old 05-21-2019, 4:48 PM
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Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Gun must be unloaded and both ammo ad gun locked in the trunk or in a locked container, BEFORE you get onto school grounds.
Perfect. I can do that.

I was just rereading SB707 a minute ago. Seems pretty straight forward.
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Old 06-26-2019, 6:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Gun must be unloaded and both ammo and gun locked in the trunk or in a locked container, BEFORE you get onto school grounds.
Is a "Gun free zone" still within 1000 feet of a school?
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Old 06-26-2019, 6:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Grey_Man View Post
Is a "Gun free zone" still within 1000 feet of a school?
Yes it is. State and Fed definition.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=626.9.

Quote:
(4) “School zone” means an area in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive, or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of the public or private school.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921#a_25

Quote:
(25) The term “school zone” means—
(A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or
(B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school.
In CA, CCW holders are exempt from the 1,000 foot rule but are not exempt from the 'on school property' rule.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=626.9.

Quote:
(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm under any of the following circumstances:
...
(5) When the person holds a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 26150) of Division 5 of Title 4 of Part 6, who is carrying that firearm in an area that is not in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive, but within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of the public or private school.

While it was not made crystal clear, the OP in this thread refers to 'EDC' which strongly implies he has a CCW. A CCW holder can carry up to but not across the property boundary of a school. Anyone without a CCW would need to make sure the gun was locked up before getting within 1000 feet of a school zone.
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Old 06-26-2019, 6:39 PM
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I thought there was a difference between school grounds and a gun free zone.
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Old 06-28-2019, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SDCarpenter View Post
I thought there was a difference between school grounds and a gun free zone.
There is. GFSZ is within 1000 feet of the school grounds.

School grounds is actually on the school grounds.
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Old 06-29-2019, 1:05 AM
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School zone is nearly 1/4 mile [1320 feet]. I can't pick a route from my house to any freeway that I am not in school zones. I can't even get to my car as 2 schools are within the limit.
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Old 06-29-2019, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by M1NM View Post
School zone is nearly 1/4 mile [1320 feet]. I can't pick a route from my house to any freeway that I am not in school zones. I can't even get to my car as 2 schools are within the limit.
No worries:
Quote:
626.9.
(a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.

(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in paragraph (4) of subdivision (e), shall be punished as specified in subdivision (f).

(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm under any of the following circumstances:

(1) Within a place of residence or place of business or on private property, if the place of residence, place of business, or private property is not part of the school grounds and the possession of the firearm is otherwise lawful.

(2) When the firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person and is in a locked container or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle.
Otherwise, CCW exempts you.
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Old 07-31-2019, 9:58 PM
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NO GUNS ON SCHOOL PROPERTY!


This is an older thread, but San Bernardino County Sheriffs said the law changed and people need to know (verify if you don't trust what we were told in CCW class).



No guns on school grounds, no exceptions, unless you are LEO or military and on the clock performing your duties. The Sheriffs said they can't carry on school grounds when off duty.


They also said, you can have your CCW on you and be 1" from the school property and be in the clear. No more 1,000 foot rule. It applies to any school, even at churches, k-12, universities, etc.


Park on the street and lock it up then walk in.
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Old 07-31-2019, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by CGT80 View Post
They also said, you can have your CCW on you and be 1" from the school property and be in the clear. No more 1,000 foot rule. It applies to any school, even at churches, k-12, universities, etc.
Um, what?

Your information is tangled.

We're talking about PC 626.9 -
Quote:
(a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.

(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in paragraph (4) of subdivision (e), shall be punished as specified in subdivision (f).

(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm under any of the following circumstances:

(1) Within a place of residence or place of business or on private property, if the place of residence, place of business, or private property is not part of the school grounds and the possession of the firearm is otherwise lawful.

(2) When the firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person and is in a locked container or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle.

This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful transportation of any other firearm, other than a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person, in accordance with state law.
...

(e) As used in this section, the following definitions shall apply:

(1) “Concealed firearm” has the same meaning as that term is given in Sections 25400 and 25610.

(2) “Firearm” has the same meaning as that term is given in subdivisions (a) to (d), inclusive, of Section 16520.

(3) “Locked container” has the same meaning as that term is given in Section 16850.

(4) “School zone” means an area in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive, or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of the public or private school.
At one time, there was an exception for on-campus possession by CCW holders on K-12 property; that was amended out of the law (ETA and replaced with (c)(2), quoted above).

The 1000 foot limitation has never applied to CCW holders, (ETA: for weapons listed on their license) and still does not. It does apply to possession by non-CCW holders - but the 1000 foot zone applies only to K-12 schools, per the bolded definition quoted above.

Universities and colleges have long had a prohibition on gun possession on campus, through PC 626.9(h) and 626.9(i).
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Last edited by Librarian; 08-01-2019 at 6:56 AM..
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  #13  
Old 08-03-2019, 8:22 PM
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Thanks for posting that.


They did say that it is no longer to get permission from the superintendent and carry.


If I read all of that correctly, and based on what the Sheriffs stated:


If you are passing through a school zone on the way to the range, you are legal if your firearms are unloaded and in locked cases (I lock long guns in cases as well when transporting) or if you are carrying a pistol on your ccw permit.


Did I understand correctly?




I see that doesn't quite line up with what the Sheriffs stated and doesn't seem to prohibit having a locked and unloaded pistol in a vehicle on school grounds. Above it doesn't distinguish between within the school zone vs. on school property.



The officers are human and are likely are not legal experts on these laws. Hopefully, they are not misleading CCW permit holders.
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Old 08-04-2019, 6:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGT80 View Post
If you are passing through a school zone on the way to the range, you are legal if your firearms are unloaded and in locked cases (I lock long guns in cases as well when transporting) or if you are carrying a pistol on your ccw permit.

Did I understand correctly?
Yes.


The deputies statement of "no more 1000 foot rule" was in context of being a valid CA CCW permit holder. [PC 626.9(c)(5)]



Penal Code 626.9
(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in paragraph (4) of subdivision (e), shall be punished as specified in subdivision (f).
(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm under any of the following circumstances:
(5) When the person holds a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 26150) of Division 5 of Title 4 of Part 6, who is carrying that firearm in an area that is not in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive, but within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of the public or private school.
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Old 08-04-2019, 7:04 PM
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Does a parking lot or parking structure count as school grounds? So here is the scenario you arrive to the parking lot, you unload your weapon and make it safe, the weapon goes in one locked container and the loaded magazine goes in another locked container.
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Old 08-04-2019, 8:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregsCCW View Post
Does a parking lot or parking structure count as school grounds?
Yes.
Quote:
So here is the scenario you arrive to the parking lot, you unload your weapon and make it safe, the weapon goes in one locked container and the loaded magazine goes in another locked container.
Doesn't work - you must disarm, unload, and lock BEFORE you get in the structure/parking lot.

Loaded mag and unloaded gun can go in the SAME locked container.
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Old 08-04-2019, 9:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGT80 View Post
NO GUNS ON SCHOOL PROPERTY!


This is an older thread, but San Bernardino County Sheriffs said the law changed and people need to know (verify if you don't trust what we were told in CCW class).



No guns on school grounds, no exceptions, unless you are LEO or military and on the clock performing your duties. The Sheriffs said they can't carry on school grounds when off duty.


They also said, you can have your CCW on you and be 1" from the school property and be in the clear. No more 1,000 foot rule. It applies to any school, even at churches, k-12, universities, etc.


Park on the street and lock it up then walk in.
I'd suggest that the deputy learn how to read, because his interpretation of the law as written is no where near accurate.

626.9
(l) This section does not apply to a duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in California, any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, or an armored vehicle guard, engaged in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in subdivision (d) of Section 7582.1 of the Business and Professions Code.


It seems rather strange that based on what you were told that cops can't carry off duty on school grounds that the legislature would put an exemption for retired cops into the law.

(o) This section does not apply to an honorably retired peace officer authorized to carry a concealed or loaded firearm pursuant to any of the following:
(1) Article 2 (commencing with Section 25450) of Chapter 2 of Division 5 of Title 4 of Part 6.
(2) Section 25650.
(3) Sections 25900 to 25910, inclusive.
(4) Section 26020.
(5) Paragraph (2) of subdivision (c) of Section 26300.
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Old 08-05-2019, 6:07 AM
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Originally Posted by P5Ret View Post
I'd suggest that the deputy learn how to read, because his interpretation of the law as written is no where near accurate.

It seems rather strange that based on what you were told that cops can't carry off duty on school grounds that the legislature would put an exemption for retired cops into the law.
AFAIK...
They are going off of what the San Bernardino County DA's Office has told them.
^Off-duty LEOs are not exempt and will file charges if they find out.
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Old 08-05-2019, 6:26 AM
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So is a private school such as a catholic preschool and k-6 grades in the state definition of school zone?

My church has an adjacent school that is part of the church. I have been avoid parking my car or entering the church school as of now.
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Old 08-05-2019, 6:42 AM
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^^^ Public or private AFAIK.
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Old 08-05-2019, 7:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
AFAIK...
They are going off of what the San Bernardino County DA's Office has told them.
^Off-duty LEOs are not exempt and will file charges if they find out.
That is some scary stuff. That seems to be a strange interpretation that really doesn't seem to work with common sentence structure rules. I have to wonder about his/her reasoning.
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Old 08-05-2019, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by basket of deplorables View Post
So is a private school such as a catholic preschool and k-6 grades in the state definition of school zone?

My church has an adjacent school that is part of the church. I have been avoid parking my car or entering the church school as of now.

I don't know about state definition, but according to San Bernardino Sheriffs, CCW holders are not to carry on ANY school property. Our renewal class was at a church, inside the gym of what was said to be a school. The renewal letter stated not to bring any firearms to the class.


I had no idea there was a school at that church and had never even seen that church before. So, if you ever go to a church and have a SBC permit, make sure you don't carry or verify there is no school on site.


What an obstacle course when you have state law, the DAs version of state law, and then the issuing agency "rules/policy" for ccw holders.


Of course, even out of 2 or 3 officers who held the class, their interpretation/direction varied on topics such as no gun signs posted outside businesses. One says to conceal well, don't be a dick if caught and you will be fine if you leave....just don't get caught over and over. The other says you shouldn't carry if they have a sign. They did agree that there was no law against carrying when a sign is posted and you would only be charged with trespassing if you REFUSED to leave. Basically, if you make yourself or the CCW program look bad, they will pull your permit. Same story if you are caught printing or exposed and it is called in, accidents happen but not over and over again.
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Old 08-05-2019, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basket of deplorables View Post
So is a private school such as a catholic preschool and k-6 grades in the state definition of school zone?

My church has an adjacent school that is part of the church. I have been avoid parking my car or entering the church school as of now.
YES.

(4) “School zone” means an area in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive, or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of the public or private school.
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