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  #1  
Old 09-27-2015, 8:43 PM
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Default Why do ffls charge $100+ for private party transfers?

I tried doing a ppt at reed's gun range today and they said they would charge me $100 for every day after 10 days i dont pick up the gun. Mil spec armory of san jose told me they have the same policy. Targetmasters of milpitas wanted $75 to do the ppt. My question is, are any of these policies even legal? And where can I find an ffl in santa clara county that dont charge these idiotic fees?

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Old 09-27-2015, 8:55 PM
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Try ugi imports, mparms, red skull tactical, metal dog tactical, san jose guntrader

As for the topic, theres a few threads that have discussed it.
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Old 09-27-2015, 9:04 PM
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They are only allowed to charge $35 total. I am not sure about storage fees after the ten. I wouldn't do business with them.
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Old 09-27-2015, 9:04 PM
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If they don't want to do PPTs, I would never set foot in their stores again. It was FFLs who WANTED the whole "PPT to go through FFLs" in the first place. Now, newer FFLs, who knew what was expected of them prior to becoming FFLs, don't like PPTs that force two potential customers into their stores so, they try to F those potential customers instead of welcoming them. Find a good FFL and don't ever step foot into their stores again. Let them PAY for advertising instead of getting paid for actual visits into the store.
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Old 09-27-2015, 9:25 PM
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Both those places in the op are ranges, so they get their own traffic. Just take your money elsewhere
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Old 09-27-2015, 9:39 PM
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Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
If they don't want to do PPTs, I would never set foot in their stores again. It was FFLs who WANTED the whole "PPT to go through FFLs" in the first place. Now, newer FFLs, who knew what was expected of them prior to becoming FFLs, don't like PPTs that force two potential customers into their stores so, they try to F those potential customers instead of welcoming them. Find a good FFL and don't ever step foot into their stores again. Let them PAY for advertising instead of getting paid for actual visits into the store.
I never knew this. Why did the FFLs want the PPT to go through FFLs? Seems like the majority of them view PPTs as a PITA, even if they aren't hostile about doing them.
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Old 09-27-2015, 9:42 PM
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I never knew this. Why did the FFLs want the PPT to go through FFLs? Seems like the majority of them view PPTs as a PITA, even if they aren't hostile about doing them.
Most likely they thought they would set the price and then got limited by .gov on the fees.
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Old 09-27-2015, 9:46 PM
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It's simply the best advertising they could ever get and, instead of paying for it, they get paid for having two potential customers walk into their store. What do you think the average gun store spends on advertising per potential customer who actually goes into the store to look around? Why wouldn't they want to get paid instead of have to pay for potential new and repeat customers to grace their threshold?
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Old 09-27-2015, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodger View Post
I never knew this. Why did the FFLs want the PPT to go through FFLs? Seems like the majority of them view PPTs as a PITA, even if they aren't hostile about doing them.

Sadly, the CA FFL dealers association was one of our worst enemies when this law was in the making.
They threw their support behind this so customers would be forced to go to their shops.
As mentioned above, they wanted their cut of the sale, which if they has their way would have been large enough to make a buyer consider buying a new gun from the FFL instead.
That did kind of backfire on them when the law set limits on what they could charge, though, as mentioned above.
There is a lot of ugly in the history of CA gun laws.
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Old 09-28-2015, 8:15 AM
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Originally Posted by dyson View Post
Both those places in the op are ranges, so they get their own traffic. Just take your money elsewhere
I understand why ranges can do it. Heck, some ranges down in LA didnt even do ppts because the majority of their business comes from renting guns. But for gun stores to do it is not only depriving themselves of customers but it is detrimental to the firearms community in a state that hates guns.

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Old 09-28-2015, 8:38 AM
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You're sure this was for PPT? This wasn't something being mailed to them? I've never encountered an FFL wanting that much for a PPT but it's common if something is mailed to them.

If so I'd let DOJ know.
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  #12  
Old 09-28-2015, 9:00 AM
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You're sure this was for PPT? This wasn't something being mailed to them? I've never encountered an FFL wanting that much for a PPT but it's common if something is mailed to them.

If so I'd let DOJ know.
Nope it was an in person sale. Seller was present to transfer his ruger blackhawk to me. Mil spec armory specifically told me that if i dont pick up the gun on the tenth day, i will pay $100 for every 24 hour period i dont pick it up.
While targetmasters said they flat out charge $75 for the ppt with no fees if i pick it past the 10th day.

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Old 09-28-2015, 9:26 AM
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Charging an excessive storage fee after the waiting period is up seems a bit extreme. However that does not equate to them charging $100 to do the PPT.
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Old 09-28-2015, 9:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Sikvenum93 View Post
Nope it was an in person sale. Seller was present to transfer his ruger blackhawk to me. Mil spec armory specifically told me that if i dont pick up the gun on the tenth day, i will pay $100 for every 24 hour period i dont pick it up.
While targetmasters said they flat out charge $75 for the ppt with no fees if i pick it past the 10th day.

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Report both to DOJ. Maybe Mil spec armory is ok doing that but I doubt it, targetmasters certainly isn't.
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Old 09-28-2015, 9:59 AM
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I was under the impression that the buyer had until the 30th day to pick it up by law. But maybe that is not the case.
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Old 09-28-2015, 10:21 AM
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You are mixing in excessive storage fees. I worked at a gun shop and it was hard enough storing all of their guns let alone the other hundred+ of all diffeent kinds that were coming in for transfers. We did not have a lot of room for storage, so making money off of storage is something that we should have done. But we did not because we decided to eat the costs.
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Old 09-28-2015, 11:34 AM
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I can understand storage fees after the 30 days, but any time before that is out of line. People get busy and don't necessarily have the desire to pick up on the 10th day.

Do they do this for FFL sold firearms as well?
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Old 09-28-2015, 11:50 AM
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I can understand storage fees after the 30 days, but any time before that is out of line. People get busy and don't necessarily have the desire to pick up on the 10th day.

Do they do this for FFL sold firearms as well?
Of course not. Only for ppts because they dont rly make money on those.

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Old 09-28-2015, 11:50 AM
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I was under the impression that the buyer had until the 30th day to pick it up by law. But maybe that is not the case.
After the 30th day the gun must be redros'd.

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Old 09-28-2015, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Sikvenum93 View Post
Of course not. Only for ppts because they dont rly make money on those.

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With their policies, they aren't going to make any money off PPTs. I can't count the number of times I've gone in for a PPT and ended up buying one to three more guns from the dealer's shelves. I would never go into a store like you're describing in the first place so, They are loosing sales and loosing money with their stupid policies. But, sometimes it is hard for idiots to see the forest through the trees. Let them keep tripping over dollars to save pennies. In the mean time, I'll keep doing business with FFLs who actually want ALL of my business and not just the portion where they make the most profit.

Sik, They do "make" $10 plus, they "make" two potential customers walk into their store. Any other business would welcome that. Most businesses PAY a lot for advertising that might or might not get a few potential customers to walk in.
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Old 09-28-2015, 12:53 PM
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There were some FFL's that have idiotic PPT "Time Frames".

Like GFOS in Vacaville has a policy that they will only do PPTs on Weekdays from 10am to 3pm.

Reed's used to have a policy also in where they only do PPTs on Weekdays between 3pm and 5pm.
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Old 09-28-2015, 1:07 PM
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The excessive storage charge for >10 days has nothing to do with the PPT transaction, it's just a terrible way to take money from and drive away customers. But they can do what they want.
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Old 09-28-2015, 1:14 PM
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because they hate you
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Old 09-28-2015, 1:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sikvenum93 View Post
Of course not. Only for ppts because they dont rly make money on those.

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and because of their insane "storage fee" policies, they will lose out on more than the time involved to perform the $10 PPT in a manner that is fair to the consumer. i am sure i am not alone in saying that i will never again set foot in either of those stores...

cordelia gun exchange screwed me on a PPT and i'll never set foot in there again. i bought two guns at once from guns fishing & other stuff in dublin. one was new and the other was consignment. they charged me a $10 "storage" fee on the consignment gun. that's the last gun i ever bought there.

what all these stores don't seem to understand is that if you treat a customer fairly they will keep coming back. but if they feel like you have screwed them in any way, they will never come back and will spread the word... They'd rather make an extra $10, $50 or $100 now, vs. building a relationship with a repeat customer than provides them with hundreds or thousands of dollars in profits over the long term.

Last edited by boopiejones; 09-28-2015 at 1:29 PM..
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Old 09-28-2015, 1:27 PM
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Just did a PPT at RifleGear, no storage up to the 30 day limit.

I have to wait 14 days due to a wedding.
I would have been "annoyed" if there was a storage fee.
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Old 09-28-2015, 2:49 PM
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I just called Reeds to clarify the ppt charge:

$35 for ppt
$100 if you don't pick within 24 hours after 10 days
$100 additional every 7 days after

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Old 09-28-2015, 4:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrara View Post
There were some FFL's that have idiotic PPT "Time Frames".

Like GFOS in Vacaville has a policy that they will only do PPTs on Weekdays from 10am to 3pm.

Reed's used to have a policy also in where they only do PPTs on Weekdays between 3pm and 5pm.
DOJ says they have to do PPTs whenever they sell guns. They can give other buyers priority though.
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Old 09-28-2015, 8:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
It's simply the best advertising they could ever get and, instead of paying for it, they get paid for having two potential customers walk into their store. What do you think the average gun store spends on advertising per potential customer who actually goes into the store to look around? Why wouldn't they want to get paid instead of have to pay for potential new and repeat customers to grace their threshold?
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Sadly, the CA FFL dealers association was one of our worst enemies when this law was in the making.
They threw their support behind this so customers would be forced to go to their shops.
As mentioned above, they wanted their cut of the sale, which if they has their way would have been large enough to make a buyer consider buying a new gun from the FFL instead.
That did kind of backfire on them when the law set limits on what they could charge, though, as mentioned above.
There is a lot of ugly in the history of CA gun laws.
That makes perfect sense. Wanting the PPT customers coming into their shops to increase sales volume on items unrelated to the PPT.
What does not make sense is the way many local gun stores treat PPT customers once they get there.

I've been treated badly at more than one shop when doing a PPT and I always thought that was foolish on the store's part. Who would want to spend money after being treated like a second class customer just because you're there to do a PPT.
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Old 09-28-2015, 11:00 PM
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RMB in Milpitas is great, and so are the folks at Rogers Relics. Neither place is your traditional "gunshop", more home office type businesses only open by appointment. I learned quite a bit recently chatting with the folks at Rogers while doing a transfer there. Other shops with set hours are obligated to perform transfers any time they are open. Eddies and the others stating limited ppt hours are in violation of the law. Also, the most anyone can legally charge for a private transfer is $35. The "storage fees" after the 10-day hold that shops like MilSpec Armory and Reeds seem to be charging is considered OK, although I'd consider not doing the transfer through them if my timing didn't allow the pick up before the fee kicked in. Most all the places open to the public seem to make the folks doing a ppt wait until the normal customer base has been satisfied. I wouldn't let it upset me, they are all different kinds of businesses and I can see how that would dictate different policies.
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Old 10-01-2015, 8:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean5063 View Post
I just called Reeds to clarify the ppt charge:

$35 for ppt
$100 if you don't pick within 24 hours after 10 days
$100 additional every 7 days after

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Old 10-01-2015, 8:44 AM
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I am not saying the policy is correct....

But the best way to lose $1,000,000 in a business is to open a retail FFL

All the disposable items are now an Internet commodity...

When did you buy several cases of Ammo from a Mom and Pop store?

The last place they make money is selling guns.... The Internet has even changed that process....
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  #32  
Old 10-01-2015, 8:59 AM
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goto Bay Area Gun Vault in MTV. they are very reasonable for ppt.
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  #33  
Old 10-01-2015, 9:00 AM
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Kerleys also has been very friendly when i've done PPT there
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  #34  
Old 10-21-2015, 5:14 PM
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I used to like and support Reeds. After reading that BS, I'll never buy from them again. No PPTs, and no new purchases. Screw 'em.
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  #35  
Old 10-21-2015, 6:08 PM
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Several years ago when I saw that a big gun shop closed it's doors rather suddenly, I phoned the DOJ to ask why. She told me that (among other things) they closed the store down because they found out they were ripping off customers who were making PPT's.
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Old 10-26-2015, 2:06 PM
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Mil-Spec Armory is garbage as an FFL for transfers. I talked to them about getting a C&R rifle transferred through them and they refused when the driver license address printed on the ID didn't match the address for DROS. Wouldn't even take a DMV-printed driver license record that matched the DROS address.

RMB is far and away a better FFL if you want to order something out of state. For PPTs Baxt Firearms in Sunnyvale is also great.
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