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  #81  
Old 08-21-2019, 12:11 PM
Califpatriot Califpatriot is offline
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I've gotten a couple bans that I think are nonsensical and selectively enforced (both for voicing unpopular opinions), but it's really not a big deal.

Calguns is fine. The fact that California is dominated by anti-gun Democrats cannot be blamed on Calguns.
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  #82  
Old 08-21-2019, 12:13 PM
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I stumbled on to Cal Guns when I was looking for an answer to a very specific question. Found my answer and was done with it, until a few years later when I needed the answer to another question. I remembered Cal Guns and I have been here since. Lots of great answers and up to date info that needs to be given to gun owners. We all know that the Ca. DOJ will not give us straight answers.

That said I think Cal Guns is fine as is. I do think that as members, we should make an effort to spread this site to as many people as possible. Maybe the next time you get asked a question (gun related) from a non Cal Guns member, you tell them you do not know the answer and to search this site for it. If they do not find it post a new question and it will get answered.
Just my 2 cents.
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  #83  
Old 08-21-2019, 1:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harbormaster View Post
Numbers,

Someone posted some numbers above that there are 21,000 active users. Real active is probably 2,100? I don't know what it is but it made me think.

What if Cal Guns dot Net adopted a Congressional, State Senate and State Assembly candidate every two years. Just 1 each. Three races. It became the sites mission to win those 3 races with money, volunteers and banging social media in favor of the candidates hard. I dare say you could have a primary like contest on the site for all those running to become one of the chosen three - it'd probably recruit more members though I suspect it would come with disdain from those who wouldn't be selected. Hopefully we can win 3 races every year and out gun rights be better for it.
AWESOME IDEA.
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  #84  
Old 08-21-2019, 2:23 PM
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As several others have said, I don't think CG needs any big changes in the forum format and rules. It should remain open to all who want to participate, even dissenting opinions, as long as they remain civil. We don't need to allow adult related posts or language.

A section on talking points would be a good idea. A place where facts can be posted backed up by actual links and research to help us counter the disinformation and half-truths parroted by the media. Hopefully we can change some opinions of anti-gun people.

As far as getting pro-2A people organized, that's a difficult task in such a large state. Local meet ups might help. With that said, I should note I am no longer a CA resident, I escaped to NV a few months ago. Gun laws were just one reason why I left. I will personally need to focus my efforts in NV to prevent it from becoming another CA.
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  #85  
Old 08-21-2019, 4:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
I've been looking around here for a while now and I think we need to look at what we're going to do, be and become here in California, both as Calguns and as gun owners.

...

I think it might be time to either reengage or find a new direction to focus on and since it is this community, not me, that built Calguns in to what it is I want to hear from you what path you think we should choose.

If I may ask,

What is your end goal? As in what are the things you want to see happen in detail? Some metric of success need to be established if you are planning on transforming this forum into something else.

Personally, I appreciate calguns.net for its vast repertoire of information and the fact that it serves all Californians inclusively. This is what sets calguns.net apart from other forums. Or else, any other platforms (reddit, etc.) are equally informative if not more so.

Regardless of the subject matter, the political climate at the moment is polarized, volatile, and as divisive as ever - and this is consuming our bandwidth to simply enjoy the guns we have responsibly.

calguns.net can be the one place where every Californian can find a safe haven to play, and make a stand for own enjoyment without daily political bs (its gettting real old guys)

In the end, calguns.net must be about Californians and their guns. It's in the name. We have our own culture, sets of challenges and we do not follow other States. CA gun owners/enthusiast should be proactive in the local ballot, but the general dialogue should include ALL Californians. Large swaths of California are urban centers and the laws for the rural areas cannot be applied to metropolitan areas and vice-versa. A case in point that there are plenty of moving elements to be considered and there is never going to be a blanket approach that pleases everybody.

on CA laws and regulations;
Nationally, 2A is a serious matter, but CA gun laws and legislation affect only Californians. So, forgive me to say that anyone who have left or "escaped" to other States have no say in our laws. We appreciate your sympathy, but we're also still living here in compliance with our local legislation and the goading is certainly a waste of time.


Warm regards,
Maryo
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  #86  
Old 08-21-2019, 4:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 996TT View Post
The information garnered from CGN and its various sub forums has a pretty significant reach that many may lose sight of. There are the silent lurkers that are the vast majority of the folks using this site.

...snip...
The impact and influence on the lurkers can't be measured or known but rest assured this forum is doing a great service.
Long time lurker here, checking in to reaffirm the above sentiment. The amount of information on this site second to none, and I am constantly using it to stay current with regard to both the laws and statistics.

I am a coach for a youth trap team in the Central Valley, and lead the local 4-H marksmanship project. As such, I try to expose our next generation of shooters (and their parents) to the truths of the firearms world, and I use the information that I gain here to do that.

Last year, one of my shooters called me to get some information to present about gun control in one of his classes. I gave him the basics, then I referred him to CalGUNs for more information.

I agree that a distinct section for info and statistics to refute the MSM propaganda would be helpful, particularly for those that arenít regulars here!

Cheers
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  #87  
Old 08-21-2019, 5:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
As someone, ahem, who has caught the odd ban for rules violations, my thoughts.

Do not open this up to NSFW and more adult posts. At the very least, put that in a well marked forum that can be avoided. There is plenty of that all over the internet, nothing will be gained by opening that tap.

I do not want to hang around an echo chamber where everyone thinks and says the same thing. That said, I think there is a fine line, and people who are working against our rights should be closely watched. Not banned or censored, but we donít need arsonists, either.

The rules about discourse are fine with me, too, even though I have been spanked over them. Points can be made within the rules. Take off the check against overt insults and name calling and this place will be the bear pit in ten days.

Again, maybe an all bets are off clearly marked sub forum, but not site wide.

Just my humble contribution.
Agree. 100%
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  #88  
Old 08-21-2019, 9:21 PM
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Let me share a few critical incidents.

Last night I was talking with a woman who is the daughter of Chinese immigrants. She actually expressed interest in moving from LA to San Bernardino County to improve the odds of getting a CCW.

But...I know that I could never take her to a Republican party event because of the level of anti-immigrant rhetoric.

A black female colleague asked for advice on how to get proper defensive firearms training. She and her daughter went to a facility I recommended. They were treated very professionally. In fact, she noticed that they were the only people of color present, and felt like everyone was being extra polite because they were so surprised to see people like them there for good training.

A few months ago I was flying Southwest and sat next to a black woman who is an entrepreneur. She moved from SoCal to Georgia. I had to ask, “OK, so what is that like for you?” She knew immediately what I was talking about. And pointed out, “My husband is a veteran, so it’s great!” They also moved to a new mixed development with lots of professional immigrants. They fit right in with the various doctors and I.T. Professionals from India and many other places.

And the sad reality is that when I try to suggest outreach to these kinds of groups, Republican activists tend to react with fear or hostility. They’re not even willing to go talk with people and find out they have ideologies in common.

Until the California Republican party opens up to more outreach, we are going to be stuck with the other party that is completely hostile to 2A interests.

What Trump should be saying is that if these other countries had a 2nd Amendment, citizens would be able to defend their own communities and they wouldn’t need to become refugees in the U.S.

Heck, the Mexican vigilantes who are taking territory back from the drug cartels apparently got the idea from Californians. It’s a natural constituency.

https://www.latimes.com/world/mexico...602-story.html

Instead of railing against immigrants, Republicans and Calgunners should keep reminding people that they come to America because it is much safer, and it is safer because of an armed citizenry.

Last edited by Foothills; 08-21-2019 at 9:24 PM.. Reason: Clarity
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  #89  
Old 08-21-2019, 9:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foothills View Post
Let me share a few critical incidents.

Last night I was talking with a woman who is the daughter of Chinese immigrants. She actually expressed interest in moving from LA to San Bernardino County to improve the odds of getting a CCW.

But...I know that I could never take her to a Republican party event because of the level of anti-immigrant rhetoric.

A black female colleague asked for advice on how to get proper defensive firearms training. She and her daughter went to a facility I recommended. They were treated very professionally. In fact, she noticed that they were the only people of color present, and felt like everyone was being extra polite because they were so surprised to see people like them there for good training.

A few months ago I was flying Southwest and sat next to a black woman who is an entrepreneur. She moved from SoCal to Georgia. I had to ask, ďOK, so what is that like for you?Ē She knew immediately what I was talking about. And pointed out, ďMy husband is a veteran, so itís great!Ē They also moved to a new mixed development with lots of professional immigrants. They fit right in with the various doctors and I.T. Professionals from India and many other places.

And the sad reality is that when I try to suggest outreach to these kinds of groups, Republican activists tend to react with fear or hostility. Theyíre not even willing to go talk with people and find out they have ideologies in common.

Until the California Republican party opens up to more outreach, we are going to be stuck with the other party that is completely hostile to 2A interests.

What Trump should be saying is that if these other countries had a 2nd Amendment, citizens would be able to defend their own communities and they wouldnít need to become refugees in the U.S.

Heck, the Mexican vigilantes who are taking territory back from the drug cartels apparently got the idea from Californians. Itís a natural constituency.

https://www.latimes.com/world/mexico...602-story.html

Instead of railing against immigrants, Republicans and Calgunners should keep reminding people that they come to America because it is much safer, and it is safer because of an armed citizenry.
Republicans want immigration- legal immigration. Meaning follow and obey the laws on the books. Democrats could care less about the laws unless it furthers their cause. Then, its all about "due process".
And FYI, the term "people of color" is a made up phrase created by the dems to divide us, not unite us. Please drop that from your vocabulary.
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  #90  
Old 08-22-2019, 5:39 AM
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Originally Posted by vintagearms View Post
Republicans want immigration- legal immigration. Meaning follow and obey the laws on the books. Democrats could care less about the laws unless it furthers their cause. Then, its all about "due process".
THANK YOU!

I'm hardly an apologist for the GOP, but its the Democrats that have successfully changed the words "Illegal Immigration" to "Undocumented Immigration" or even just "Immigration". I first noticed it in the flap over Prop 183.
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  #91  
Old 08-22-2019, 6:04 AM
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my 2 cents,
The Gun community in general lacks focus and as such is an easy target for the left. Perhaps a clear set of goals set forward on Calguns as to what everyone should be working towards and how to get there. That way everyone could start pulling in the same direction. There are a lot of very opinionated people here and some of them will need to suck it up and get behind a path even if they do not think it is the right path.
Maybe a first step could be a CRPA/NRA membership drive. Easy to announce and see if type of consensus on a simple matter can be reached.

As for the trolls that exist here, there is a difference between someone having a different opinion and those that are here just to stir the pot. There are many trolls here that should be tossed as they only muddy the water and cause dissension. This seems to be their goal and they are very successful at it. Those that are here to help and have different opinions should be allowed to voice them.

Last edited by toro1; 08-22-2019 at 6:33 AM..
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  #92  
Old 08-22-2019, 7:33 AM
compulsivegunbuyer compulsivegunbuyer is online now
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Get rid of the off topic section. I am going to be first to admit, I go there to troll it for a reaction more than anything, as does most everyone else there.

People post crap like this...."The whites were descendants of Europeans who had created a majestic civilization. The former slaves had been tribal peoples with no written language and virtually no intellectual achievements"

Seriously, if I were looking to see what the gun community is all about, and went to the off topic section, I would not come back. The discussions there devolve quickly into "people like you amuse me", "your a Libtard because....", and the classy "shut your cock washer". There are wonderful topics like "I gave a homeless person a nickel and they were ungrateful", followed by 20 reasons why we need to put them in concentration camps. Let us not forget the endless procession of cop bashing threads, global warming threads, abortion threads, etc. No one is going to change anyone else's mind on those subjects, so what is the point of having a mud slinging ring to constantly highlight peoples ugly(sometimes very ugly) sides.

It should stay family friendly. I can run with the best of them as far as potty mouths go, but the anonymity the internet gives you, saying things people would not say to others faces, brings out the ugly side of people already. Foul language only piles fuel on the fire.

Should it cater to one political party? Having a place just for people who already agree with you on a right that is losing support with every tragedy and media blitz is not a great strategy for gaining converts.

Just my opinion, yours may vary.

Last edited by compulsivegunbuyer; 08-22-2019 at 7:38 AM..
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  #93  
Old 08-22-2019, 10:08 AM
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Removing “Off topic” and possibly the gun sales section (probably others too) from the New Posts link/filter is a good idea. People are constantly bumping their for sale guns and it seems at any given time “new posts” is 30-60% for sale ads.

Seeing all the for sale ads is incredibly distracting and probably turns off most people, especially newcomers.

Last edited by SmokeTheClay; 08-22-2019 at 10:14 AM..
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  #94  
Old 08-22-2019, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compulsivegunbuyer View Post
Get rid of the off topic section. I am going to be first to admit, I go there to troll it for a reaction more than anything, as does most everyone else there.

People post crap like this...."The whites were descendants of Europeans who had created a majestic civilization. The former slaves had been tribal peoples with no written language and virtually no intellectual achievements"

Seriously, if I were looking to see what the gun community is all about, and went to the off topic section, I would not come back. The discussions there devolve quickly into "people like you amuse me", "your a Libtard because....", and the classy "shut your cock washer". There are wonderful topics like "I gave a homeless person a nickel and they were ungrateful", followed by 20 reasons why we need to put them in concentration camps. Let us not forget the endless procession of cop bashing threads, global warming threads, abortion threads, etc. No one is going to change anyone else's mind on those subjects, so what is the point of having a mud slinging ring to constantly highlight peoples ugly(sometimes very ugly) sides.

It should stay family friendly. I can run with the best of them as far as potty mouths go, but the anonymity the internet gives you, saying things people would not say to others faces, brings out the ugly side of people already. Foul language only piles fuel on the fire.

Should it cater to one political party? Having a place just for people who already agree with you on a right that is losing support with every tragedy and media blitz is not a great strategy for gaining converts.

Just my opinion, yours may vary.

This is absolutely, 100% true. All of it. But especially this:

Quote:
if I were looking to see what the gun community is all about, and went to the off topic section, I would not come back.
So what do we want Calguns to be? A sewing circle/echo chamber? Or a force for the entire gun community in California to help effect much needed changes in support of gun rights in this state?
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  #95  
Old 08-22-2019, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Zorba View Post
My late father was a lifetime union member, and a firearms owner. This kind of comment is "exhibit A" of EXACTLY what I'm talking about.
Thank you Zorba, I am a retired Union member, my wage allowed me to buy weapons, join CRPA and NRA plus give a little to CALGUNS once in a while. I wonder is if the one that wants to ban union members has family that lean left? Using his rules, Calguns would close down.
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  #96  
Old 08-22-2019, 3:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compulsivegunbuyer View Post
Get rid of the off topic section. I am going to be first to admit, I go there to troll it for a reaction more than anything, as does most everyone else there.

People post crap like this...."The whites were descendants of Europeans who had created a majestic civilization. The former slaves had been tribal peoples with no written language and virtually no intellectual achievements"

Seriously, if I were looking to see what the gun community is all about, and went to the off topic section, I would not come back. The discussions there devolve quickly into "people like you amuse me", "your a Libtard because....", and the classy "shut your cock washer". There are wonderful topics like "I gave a homeless person a nickel and they were ungrateful", followed by 20 reasons why we need to put them in concentration camps. Let us not forget the endless procession of cop bashing threads, global warming threads, abortion threads, etc. No one is going to change anyone else's mind on those subjects, so what is the point of having a mud slinging ring to constantly highlight peoples ugly(sometimes very ugly) sides.

It should stay family friendly. I can run with the best of them as far as potty mouths go, but the anonymity the internet gives you, saying things people would not say to others faces, brings out the ugly side of people already. Foul language only piles fuel on the fire.

Should it cater to one political party? Having a place just for people who already agree with you on a right that is losing support with every tragedy and media blitz is not a great strategy for gaining converts.

Just my opinion, yours may vary.
I can agree with this, but it can't always be about politics and trashing people. we have to have an area that we share or talk about things in our lives besides just guns.... or is Calguns going to boil down to only gun talk? I have no idea... but what about people asking real questions for help with career choices or legitimate questions.... I am not sure how to avoid the political garbage or the trash talk though, I guess this is the internet and that is the fringe we have to deal with.
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  #97  
Old 08-22-2019, 4:18 PM
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Thanks Kyle for giving me the template!

Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?

Yes, stay the course.

Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?

No; but we should probably figure out a way to outreach to those firearms owners who are more "in the middle".

Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?

No; we need standards.

Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?

No; opinions and views go a long way to what makes Calguns. I believe we could do with more outreach, bring in the younger crowd, or just those who are firearm-friendly, just not involved.

Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?

No; we absolutely need rules for civil discussion and behavior. And need to follow them

Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?

No; they go hand in hand. I didn't realize this when I first joined Calguns--I was looking for how best to prepare for owning a firearm. Didn't know until further along, 2A rights are under attack. Being ignorant is no excuse, but yes, I was ignorant.



I would like to see more outreach, group events, or something like community activities, up here in Nor Cal. When I first joined Calguns, we lived in Pasadena, so I jumped in on a few of the Burbank Firing Line get togethers--it was great. Down in SoCal, there seem to be SO many more places to shoot.

We've lived up here in the North Bay a couple of years, but I'm not super familiar with the places to go. I would definitely get involved if we had something going on close by or even a bit of a drive away. I'm totally looking forward to USI Concord to reopening.
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  #98  
Old 08-22-2019, 5:46 PM
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I just want to share some of my thoughts as a younger individual firearm owner, without going on a tired diatribe.

I was lucky enough to receive a firearm from my father at the age of 17, a remington targetmaster, he himself had never been much for firearms and inherited that from a family member. It started my foray into firearms today.

And as a relatively young man of 29, what follows are some of my observances within the local community or lack thereof.

-Older 2nd amendment supporters, enthusiasts survivalists or anything in between tend to be very unwelcoming and downright disdainful to younger folk like myself. I understand the responsibility of owning a firearm and that it is not to be taken lightly under any circumstance but for the unfortunate majority of the time I deal with the 40+ crowd at shows or ranges it leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

I am made of stern material, I have a good constitution so things like that don't bother me. But I often think of the young people that come after me, looking for direction from the more experienced people in the hobby who didn't have someone to lead them or teach them in the right direction, and those people more than likely understand how poignant it is.

I may not know everything but I do my best to help newcomers into their own, teach them how I was taught. Which segues into my next point.

-No community/events outside of the forums.

At least that I'm aware of, I do my best to stay in the loop but gun shows are far between and while occasional meet ups that aren't ATF honeypots are fun it feels like as a whole, we as a community do not come together in any formidable fashion.

I myself am fairly isolated in the part of the valley I reside, the noose feels like it's getting tighter. It would be so easy to capitulate and just let the people that hold nothing but contempt for the 2nd amendment beat us down but I think we should start making substantial moves to come together and get involved. Not just from the confines of our comfy home.

Just a few more points.

In this day and age it is seen as distasteful to support our livelihood and rights, especially in an era where someone can get you fired over the internet for an "incorrect" opinion.

A lot of people don't take a stance for this very reason, too many of the wrong crowd, not enough guys like us.

I would love for there to be more groups/gatherings and political push on our behalf, which means we have to guide people just getting into firearms in the right direction, it starts with us. I think that is the key to getting legislation back on path here in California
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Old 08-22-2019, 6:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dravenguild View Post
I just want to share some of my thoughts as a younger individual firearm owner, without going on a tired diatribe.

I was lucky enough to receive a firearm from my father at the age of 17, a remington targetmaster, he himself had never been much for firearms and inherited that from a family member. It started my foray into firearms today.

And as a relatively young man of 29, what follows are some of my observances within the local community or lack thereof.

-Older 2nd amendment supporters, enthusiasts survivalists or anything in between tend to be very unwelcoming and downright disdainful to younger folk like myself. I understand the responsibility of owning a firearm and that it is not to be taken lightly under any circumstance but for the unfortunate majority of the time I deal with the 40+ crowd at shows or ranges it leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

I am made of stern material, I have a good constitution so things like that don't bother me. But I often think of the young people that come after me, looking for direction from the more experienced people in the hobby who didn't have someone to lead them or teach them in the right direction, and those people more than likely understand how poignant it is.

I may not know everything but I do my best to help newcomers into their own, teach them how I was taught. Which segues into my next point.

-No community/events outside of the forums.

At least that I'm aware of, I do my best to stay in the loop but gun shows are far between and while occasional meet ups that aren't ATF honeypots are fun it feels like as a whole, we as a community do not come together in any formidable fashion.

I myself am fairly isolated in the part of the valley I reside, the noose feels like it's getting tighter. It would be so easy to capitulate and just let the people that hold nothing but contempt for the 2nd amendment beat us down but I think we should start making substantial moves to come together and get involved. Not just from the confines of our comfy home.

Just a few more points.

In this day and age it is seen as distasteful to support our livelihood and rights, especially in an era where someone can get you fired over the internet for an "incorrect" opinion.

A lot of people don't take a stance for this very reason, too many of the wrong crowd, not enough guys like us.

I would love for there to be more groups/gatherings and political push on our behalf, which means we have to guide people just getting into firearms in the right direction, it starts with us. I think that is the key to getting legislation back on path here in California
I've been to a few events for Calguns.... mostly calgunners getting together to shoot or grab a berr/food, one time SDfire did a show n tell about the featureless laws and plugged SD Must his BLM trash clean up which I think is awesome non profit.... long story short, yes there are get togethers but its few and far between, I haven't seen one in a while. I'm SD let me know if you ever wanna set something up.
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  #100  
Old 08-22-2019, 9:57 PM
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My thoughts on this.
We need members here, myself included. To stand up! Volunteer to lead.
Get organized, schedule dates, times, and places to meet in large numbers to make our voices heard.
I rarely see and threads saying, hey, letís all set a date and time to meet at our elected officials office and demand to be heard.
We really all need to get off the bench and into the game. Me included.
As for the current format, I would not change a thing.
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  #101  
Old 08-23-2019, 10:45 AM
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Default Where does Calguns go from here?

I've been here a while, and honestly my political beliefs have shifted (mostly on civil rights issues) as I've moved feom my early to late 20's. One thing that I try to do is keep a balanced head when considering legal and logical arguments. This has served me well, as a gun owner working in a liberal dominated humanitarian field. I'll concede that my views on immigration, sexuality, drugs and imposed Christianity (though I'm a Christian) in the workplace are probably "far left" from the majority here. But I'm also a freedom loving, gun owning, God fearing/loving American citizen, and I believe that the right to self defense, and the defense of the innocent shouldn't be compromised so people can feel safe.

What does this mean? I believe that laws should be 100% data driven. Nobodys feelings should take precedent. That means if a moderate restriction on gun owners would substantially reduce deaths (i.e. mandated training, as with hunting) would reduce deaths, I think it should be considered strongly. If it doesn't have a statistically meaningful effect, it should be scrapped after a set amount of time.

With that said, I have been working, successfully, over the past almost 10 years (or it will be 10 years in less than 2 weeks) to be a model gun owner. I take safety very seriously. I do a substantial amount of research and practice as often as I'm able. I've had a lot of great shooters help me to improve my shooting and recently took a class from Front Sight.

This, along with my position of being surrounded by liberals, has given me the ability to "preach by example" to a lot of people who have either negatice or at best neutral feelings about firearms. I've easily spent hundreds of hours working to educate people on proper safety, use of terminology, function, and why they are all important. The only way this communication has been possible is by working slowly and patiently. As soon as a debate gets heated, people's brains turn off (literally the prefrontal cortex goes dark because the sympathetic nervous system is preparing the body for "fight, flight, or freeze"... I've "converted" several people who were previously afraid to be in the same room with firearms.

My point is that keeping this a civil, family friendly, balanced (as much as possible) place for discussion means a lot of people from various backgrounds can get good information on California's ridiculous gun laws, as well as countless other aspects of firearm ownership, safety, and use. Also, as a public forum, many non-members searching for information about firearm ownership and owners will come across the topics posted here. This may be the first or only point of contact they have. For the sake of correcting the many false stereotypes about firearm owners, and to prevent this from becoming an echo chamber (which WOULD doom it as a community), we need to keep it open and do our best to model ideal citizenship.

That's what's worked for me anyway.

One more thing, I want to double down on what Manny said: outreach.
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Originally Posted by 357manny View Post

Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?



Yes, stay the course.



Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?



No; but we should probably figure out a way to outreach to those firearms owners who are more "in the middle".



I would like to see more outreach, group events, or something like community activities, up here in Nor Cal.

As someone who's "in the middle" (but not a Hillary "corporate centrist"... Eww...) Couldn't have said this better.

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  #102  
Old 08-23-2019, 3:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdc View Post

I believe that laws should be 100% data driven.
...

With that said, I have been working, successfully, over the past almost 10 years (or it will be 10 years in less than 2 weeks) to be a model gun owner.

There. An opportunity for us to redefine what it means to be a model gun owner/operator/enthusiast in the 21st century.

Maybe the face(s) of Californian (and American) gun owners no longer need to be dictated/represented by a single source (i.e NRA).

That's like having 300 millions of rich and traditionally diverse Americans having face-value representation in just 2-party politics. oh wait...

Jokes aside, we should have an open mind about what it means to own a gun today. Unlike 50 years ago, the gun industry now cater to US consumer's conspicious purchasing behavior (we don't just have 1 hunting rifle/household anymore) and this requires introspection in our attitude, liability, and even culpability that makes up for ownership responsibilities.

At US$1+ billion output contribution from California alone, we are the 2nd biggest participant in the gun industry* - and the misalignment of social/cultural representation here is a symptom of a larger void, in which Californians don't yet have a definitive gun culture that's also relevant in a predominantly progressive and liberal State.

This is a real opportunity/space that can be filled from the ground up! (local meets, outreach programs through calguns, etc.) instead of top-down (NRA culture = CRPA culture = calguns culture = all CA gun owner culture). The latter is an incumbent position and is now too awkward at best.

As a younger shooter myself, I can assure you that I love my guns and plan to keep shooting them forever. Whether or not we share the same dillema that is now tied to older politics, probably not. We're more likely ro re-organize on our own and set our own sub-culture going forward, and this may not align at all with our predecessors.

So yes, an outreach, dialogue, if sincere and open-minded, are maybe the best approach.



*https://d3aya7xwz8momx.cloudfront.ne...dustry2017.pdf
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  #103  
Old 08-23-2019, 3:39 PM
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The below IS NOT aimed at any one on this board. It is NOT intended to offend anyone.

------

During Gunmageddon it was difficult to get people to volunteer to pass out fliers. I had a hell of a time placing the ones I had. Most business shunned the thought of having firearm material displayed.

There are a lot of reasons some folks cannot participate in "meet up", "get togethers" etc. How many times have volunteers been needed to man booths at certain events and fall short of bodies.

Yes, these are all good ideas but realistically, harder to achieve than it is to engage in due to life's commitments.

I'm old and cranky and have been fighting this battle since the middle 80's when snail mail was about the only way to rattle politico cages. (phone calls were all toll calls back then)

This sight and the info garnered has been very helpful to me and others that I have introduced to it. The Head Janitor and his crew do a great job.

I want to thank each and everyone on this board whether I agree with you or not for your contributions.

Respectfully
Kyle
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  #104  
Old 08-23-2019, 5:23 PM
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To ignore the fundamental principles underlying any broad topic is asinine and chicken****. Yo call out a moron who would tread on the rights of others because they donít agree with oneís personal positions, only stiffens the lack of cohesion among discourse related to guns in America.

Itís a position of weakness and fear. To hear people to talk of the leftís assault on our ďmoralĒ society is sickening. To hear the right wasting time on necessity for prayer (an inveterately personal subject) in the classroom, is equally revolting.

At the end of the day, an issue s no stronger than its underlying principles. If we are not encouraging a traditional/classic market liberalism here, weíve failed. The intent of the likes of Patrick Henry, was to limit the scope of government.

It never fails to amaze me how many times Iíve seen *******s here go to the DOJ to solve what should be civil matters. We have courts, the last bastion of mature consent in the country, to handle these things. Yet people would go whine to our worst of enemies.

Itís not that theyíre necessarily wrong in the their complaints, however, going to the devil to put our fires, is more than mildly hypocritical, and outright stupid.

Until we teach the true principles of freedom, weíve lost. Arguments held over Jim Beam about the sin of drug use without harm to others, or the crime ďproblemĒ as the necessity for gun ownership is abhorrent. It avoids the primary purpose underpinning the only sacrosanct basis for the 2nd Amendment: Protection from Government Interference and Tyranny.

And this is a forum of adult issues. Screw the family friendly and safe for work guidelines. Grow up and grow a pair. We have no level playing field in this world. We never will. If you donít like it, turn it off.

I could go on forever but Iíd probably get banned. That said, a consistent discussion is that freedom from others as manifested by the abhorrence of those official elected. Itís not Republican or Democrat, though I find the true fascism to come from the progressive left, notwithstanding, ours is a battle of right. We lost that years ago.


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  #105  
Old 08-23-2019, 5:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle1886 View Post
I'm going to look at your "questions" as either a "YES" or "NO" questionnaire.

Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?

Yes.

Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?

No.

Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?

No.

Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?

No.

Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?

No.

Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?

No.

Respectfully
Kyle


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  #106  
Old 08-23-2019, 9:53 PM
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I've been a member of Calguns since the days of Ramon. It was a smaller community back then. Almost everyone was of like mind. I do remember there were trolls, but they were dismissed and left unfed.

I was glad when Kestryll was able to bring us Calguns 2.0 and progress was made in the area of off-list lowers. Milpitas and soon Taft became the meccas for northern California and southern California respectively. I still have my Stag lowers from the early days.

We had something to fight for and everyone was on board. No doubt the California AG's office and DOJ gathered more information from Calguns than their own investigations. Eventually it was used against the 2A proponents, but that's the price of open discussions.

Then came the fiasco by the Los Angeles DA's office against BlackWaterOps. All of us learned about the dangers of an open internet and social media. Again Calguns was at the front of the battle. Not everyone agreed about this case, but it opened everyone's eyes. Again the result of open discussions, pro and con.

Frank and open discussions are what makes Calguns a great forum. I look down upon censorship of any kind. Back in the day of AOL chat rooms, I was a host for Paintball. I worked in the paintball industry and wanted to promote the new sport. All hosts were trained by AOL to maintain their standards and were equipped with the ability to gag and ban members in chat rooms. I only gagged people in direct violation of AOL policy (mostly vulgarity) and only because it was probably an AOL shill.

Calguns needs to maintain a family friendly atmosphere. Kids do have access. We need to police our own actions whenever possible, but moderators are needed as well.

Regarding 2A issues, Calguns has forums for activists. Unfortunately not everyone is motivated until something hits close to home. It was the same way in the paintball industry. We were always worried that something would happen to ban the sport. David Horowitz and the toy gun ban came close. Most people in the paintball industry never realized how close it got. On a national level, paintball was banned from SHOT by NSSF. The ban was lifted only after Daisy became involved in paintball. I'm glad I was able to help facilitate that endeavor.

The popularity of Calguns is it's greatest strength and it's greatest weakness. I'm not sure what would happen if left unchecked.
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  #107  
Old 08-24-2019, 12:22 PM
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IMO, site is fine.
If possible, get away from this:
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ec2-52-35-13-99.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com (52.35.13.99) 65.871 ms 66.164 ms 59.967 ms
Given corporate suppression of political viewpoints of late, IMO no need nor reason to support and pay money to an enemy of our cause that can squeeze the site through their TOU and contractual agreements. We've all seen what Google's been doing to anything gun-related. We watched as Reddit effectively shadow banned The_Donald and I have full confidence it'll be fully banned by the election. We, and Trump too, routinely bash WaPo as fake news. Bezos has his fingers into all kinds of stuff.
With over 6 million unique visits per month and some really good supporting stats, CG is in excellent shape. It's also a target. IMO it'll be a big one in the coming election cycle. Good luck!
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  #108  
Old 08-24-2019, 1:42 PM
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What do we as members of this community want from both this State and this community in the future?

Obvious answer: to leave us as alone, respect our rights, and know that they agree to disagree and make actual good faith discussions with a policy that doesn't just punish the law-abiding.

More political action and exercising rights via voting and finding within or supporting politicians that will fight for 2A rights and policy.




Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?

This community would benefit from a regional structure with meetings and community outreach like political campaigns do. Maybe a table at a fair or farmers market where good faith professional discussion made regardless of what antis may say or do.

The real change needs to focus on bringing new people in and younger for sure. Maybe sponsor a range day for new shooters or those interested. Even those against that are open to learning about them.

Maybe even handing out gun locks and encourage responsible and safe gun ownership. Free basic training and intro courses/instruction to those interested.



Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?

Yes. No way around it, the right is more friendly to 2A and all rights. This is not to say we should not appeal to Democrats or Independents. It should be standalone and really focus more on the policy issues in relation to the 2A and how it's more about freedom and choice.

Basically, all are welcome, but here is how if you aren't voting R, you are voting against your interests as a gun owner/enthusiast.



Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?

No. Keep it professional here. I like it that way. Gives us a better image thats more refined.


Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?

No. Let them be here. But they should know what to expect being on this site.


Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?

No. We should expect more from each other. Always take the high ground and stay on message. We should be civil and act like adults here.


Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?

No. We need to be both. If we aren't fighting for our rights, there will be nothing to talk about.




As for what would be good outside of this. I think there have been some great ideas.

Things to consider
  • A forum for talking points/counter-arguments to all leftist talking points
  • References to be made as well to include cases, historical firearms, etc.
  • Require or strongly encourage NRA/CRPA membership-- maybe some perks?
  • Try and partner with known celebrities. For ex. Tomi Lahren is young, attractive, and now living in SoCal/Dana Loesch/Antonia Okafor
  • Put a stop to a lot the comments here that are highly racially charged. There is a lot of racist comments and insinuations made here a lot. It does not help our side.
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  #109  
Old 08-24-2019, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M76 View Post
CGN ain't broke, don't fix it.

Perhaps require a NRA/CPRA membership in order to join CGN?

Thanks Kes.
I like that idea. it would thin the herd, but the downside would be the gun newbie who might not be ready to join the "evil NRA" or similar ilk?
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  #110  
Old 08-25-2019, 9:36 AM
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2nd Amendment Mission

I've given more money to CRPA and the NRA in recent years because, as you said, that's been the only way to fight effectively. With the President changing the composition of the 9th and SCOTUS, that's worth an extra contribution with the next CRPA mailing (note to file).

As others have stated, "activism" is harder for us than for progressives because: (1) we have jobs and they don't really; (2) we have to be careful about retribution for public opinions and they don't; (3) Anything too macho or threatening can be counter productive (e.g. how we lost open carry).

So is there a smarter way to be activists in the 21st Century that doesn't risk jobs, families, or scare the public? Well, I sure hope the NRA has been working on this in between food fights at board meetings FCS. Maybe someone here can figure out more innovative things to do in addition to writing to our elected representatives.

Education

Just about everything except the off topic forum is fantastic and has been a great help to me since I got back into the sport in 2008.

Off Topic

I've enjoyed off topic more in the past few years. My only thoughts are:

1. There do have to be political standards of a sort. We've seen what happens when someone posts something too "far Right" on other places and takes the whole community down with them. That hasn't happened here, thanks to Kes and the other mods.

2. There also have to be some family standards, although here in California family standards have always been a little looser than back in good old Kansas. But this can't become the Penthouse Forum either. Since there haven't been any articles in the LA Times about the Bad Boys on CalGuns recently, I think Kes has been hammering enough.

Best!

Kurt
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  #111  
Old 08-25-2019, 1:18 PM
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Fish rot head first. Yes. California law is the fish. not you, not calguns.

used to be a lot more active in reading on calguns. Now i go into general and am just embarrassed really. I read these thread titles and am like wow thatís ca for me..

go into local and state level, even federal laws.. the more I knew the less I wanted to know. Like a bad drug side effect.

donít get me wrong, I too can be very ignorant when it comes to a lot of subjects. it is sad to see the mental gymnastics one has to go through to just be law abiding.. and not to mention how easy it is to not be law abiding. Lots of people donít want to know, or even can grasp how bad it really is these days in Ca. Non involved. Itís a shame.

I honestly took a lot from this site. it gave me a good perspective on what all goes on at the local and state levels of activism, and law making, etc.

the outcome is being educated no doubt, which is far from bad. Maybe that is all this stated wanted in the end? lol

no.

but ya, i would suggest not changing much, ya the moderation is very much on par, no reason to add vulgar content, as others have suggested. This is a California gun owners encyclopedia, donít trash it up!

What do we as members of this community want from both this State and this community in the future?
Hard to say, ask all we want, we are all still here. It would be nice to not be public enemy number one- owners, for one..

As for this community.. idk I try to steer as many as I can to this website, especially when it comes to any legal questions I cant answer..

As for diversifying, I donít see the point this site is a very helpful tool already, what more do you want? It would be nice to get the younger crowd or anyone more involved, generating more traffic. I try to do my part on that. I have gifted many firearms, etc.

As far as the echo chamber goes, ya some resenting opinions help but as ar15.com has just witnessed you have to be careful with that one. This is a public gun forum. anti 2a discussions, members, etc. should not receive a free platform. I agree with the other poster that said censorship leads to unfavorable outcomes, however this I feel should not be overlooked. Gun owners are fractured enough, not just in Ca apparently.

Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?
No setting the clock back buddy, we have all made our beds. Now we sleep. You are righteous and you know it.. sleep well.


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  #112  
Old 08-25-2019, 2:31 PM
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Leel, your post is heartbreaking.

You are bearing your identity as Californian gun ownership here and sounded like you're very tired. Times are changing and sometimes its really hard for us to keep up. Especially when half the country keeps putting the blame on us. Maybe we should listen.

Look, this year alone, I was as active as any NRA highpower competitive shooters, I was new, I f**king love this sh**, but also, was difficult to swallow recent tragedies and the overall tone of the political party that 'dominates' most shooting activities.

I really love the people I shoot with, but hate the fact that current politics affects how they perceive/look at certain ideas/politics they dont like.

I truly wish these two never mixes, bc at the bottom of it, I do love my firearms, for everything they are there for.

But there are real concerns, data points, that we need to consider, and unless we discuss these things, we can't move forward.

We are Californian gun owners, we should look at our neighbors in the eyes and at least engage for once.
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  #113  
Old 08-25-2019, 2:45 PM
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As far as "Off Topic" goes, it has it's place, especially when "an on going event" takes place on news feeds. i.e., Officer down, local break ins, and just plain ole light hearted humor---Things and stuff if you will.

There are plenty of sub-forums to visit, if "Off Topic" isn't your cup of tea, don't go there. The same applies to the Market Place; if you find an item "over priced" in your view, do what you would in a brick and mortar, give it a pass.

No need to dump the Market Place because something is outlandishly expensive, any more than "Off Topic" should be eliminated.

Nothing's perfect but Calguns is the best thing we have, let's not wreak it trying to improve something that ain't broken.

Respectfully (just an opinion)
Kyle
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  #114  
Old 08-25-2019, 5:13 PM
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Default Some thoughts....

Sorry it's so long. I just have been waiting for an opportunity like this.

What do we as members of this community want from both this State and this community in the future?

----I actually like how you’ve largely set it up already. I do like the inclusive nature overall, but as some have mentioned, I think we should open up in some areas like conflicting ideological views. There seems to be a sentiment that an opposing view is bad. I think the youth is our only saving grace.

Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?

----Yes, by and large, but I think we should focus some of our attentions on how specifically we can be of assistance in the fight. I am no attorney or politician. I am a high school teacher that has tried again and again to make sure that kids know that the 2nd Amendment, like the rest, were developed as protections against a tyrannical government. I am a part of SD County Gun Owners and try to be a regular participant in what they do. I train new shooters to do it safely and have fun and take experienced to a next level. What more can we do realistically? I would like to see more focus on the commonality rather than differences like political parties.

Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?

----No, but I want to highlight that we need to stop and look at the overall party platforms to understand how people are thinking. I’m going to state my opinions and say they are my opinions. I will not change my mind on them, so please…this is not the place to engage the fight over whether or not I am right or wrong. PM me if you have heartache. Here goes:

The more leftist platforms simply are against guns because they tend to promote a less unified society. Why do you need guns? If there were more understanding, we wouldn’t need them. People do not need assault weapons because those are “war weapons” and civilians don’t need them. This is consistent and they do not seem willing to discourse.

Notice I’m not saying “Democrat” or Liberal”. I know many D’s that own guns and are pro-gun, but I am saying that California is a “leftist” state. We need to have a focus on discourse and if people aren't willing, then I personally do not want to waste my time.

Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?

----Absolutely not. As others have mentioned, we need to be classy. We need to show that gun owners are not crass, rude, and self absorbed foul mouths. That is exactly what this forum will become if we remove the controls on behavior. It is sad…indeed very sad…that we need to have this, but if you take away the language and insult ban hammers, this will degenerate into a keyboard version of a no rules MMA fight.

The youth of California, at least in the high schools I am in as a sub, are not all the mind numbed people we think they are. I have routine discussions with kids and there are more than you think out there that are not on board with some of this stupid leftist (I did not say liberal or Democratic…there is a difference) rhetoric. I only hope, pray and desire that this translates to action when they vote.

Adult images? We're not a porn site and I don't need to see a blown off jaw to know what it looks like.

Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?

----I think, as others have mentioned, let’s focus on the 1 issue: guns. I don’t care which party you are from, whether or not you’re LGBT, male or female, young or old or what color you are. I only care that you are working for the rights of gun owners and ownership in general.

There are those that are anti-gun and I welcome them as long as they have an open mind and engage in meaningful discourse, as most of us do. I can't imagine why an anti-gunner would be on a pro-gun website, but if they're open minded, then sure. If they're antagonistic and do nothing but make trouble, then...they need to leave.

Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?

----No. As I mentioned before, this place will degenerate into an ugly place if you lift the hammers that are in place. Civility and calm, rational discussion should mark us. Otherwise, we are what the antis say we are.

Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?


----No. We need the expertise. I for one can’t focus on all of it or research it. I enjoy reading the 2A discussion forums and the LEO forum along with other technical sub-forums on our rights. Please do not get rid of this. I tend to use CalGuns as one of my sources for helping keep me up to date on court stuff, trends, translation of legalese by the attorneys here. I realize I shouldn’t rely on just other opinions, but this helps me navigate through it all.

That's not to say we can't also be a bit social. I would love to see, as I mentioned below in the call outs, regional Calguns groups who get together and maybe figure out how to outreach to those groups that might ordinarily be anti gun and challenge them to at least come out and do it. Try one; then if you don’t like it, you can say you tried it. I know many in the school district that would love it, even though they do so in secret. Perhaps a BBQ and just invite everybody...I don't know.

I say regional because each area may have different demographics and things that make it unique. Nothing like locals to help move forward pro-2A.

We've become stagnant and frankly a bit complacent and I don't blame anyone more than myself.
They say a fish rots from the head down and I've felt rather disconnected and disengaged for a while now.


----Kes…I feel you. I really do. I know we all have jobs and lives, but we all need to stay engaged. I try to view stuff here everyday and update myself, despite my job (the school district) banning CalGuns as a “weapons” site. I have my ways around it, but it's gotten old trying to "get around it". I sometimes weary of having to explain the most basic concept of 2A--"shall not be infringed". Stay with us Kes…we need all of the folks who have been around the block for a while. The cure for the fish head rotting is to not let the fish die in the first place.

I think it might be time to either reengage or find a new direction to focus on and since it is this community, not me, that built Calguns in to what it is I want to hear from you what path you think we should choose.

Some specific comments I would like to call out that I thought were poignant:

1. 9mmContagion (#12) mentioned that we as right sider pro gun folks have families that we have to provide for. He's right. We can’t just be overt and open. As a teacher, I am forced to be careful who I tell, especially in the world of Red Flag. An administrator could complain up to 6 months after you leave the campus. It’s a sad fact. We can’t just be free to have openness anymore. I can usually defend myself and my viewpoints, but if this system gets any more leftist

2. JoyfulJoker (#10) had an AWESOME suggestion that I would love to see us start to do. Regional CalGuns groups that meet face to face and interact. I would really love to meet fellow Calgunners and interact. Moreover, we can crosstalk things we can do locally to further the pro 2A belief.

3. Aeneas (#17) mentioned that this state is Leftist. I agree, but just want to make sure that we are tracking that there is a spectrum. Democrat, liberal, leftist. I don’t want to have discourse with leftists at all because they are too far left and usually not open to changing their mind or accepting of those with differing points. I don’t do ultra right wing either, but at least there are a few…only a few…points on which we can agree.

4. Zorba (#28) makes a good point, though I think we could be a little more than just guns. I really like the survival and prep forum. Gotta keep that.

5. Someone mentioned templates for letters to congressmen and agencies. I’m no slouch at writing, but having a template that I can nudge a little here and there would be awesome and a huge time saver.
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  #115  
Old 08-25-2019, 5:14 PM
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My only input is to look at other countries and what has happened to them. England, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Etc. United We Stand and divided we fall! I saw this video today on YouTube and this thread came to mind so I thought I would post it here. It's similar to other videos I've seen before but I think we really need to take this seriously.



I seem to be having a problem posting the YouTube video so I am going to put a link.

https://youtu.be/CC6aEx6xYFY
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  #116  
Old 08-25-2019, 5:17 PM
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I've said it before Kestryl, in a PM I sent you a few years ago, that you never responded to and I'll say it again. Charge a one time fee for the classified section and put the money towards political causes.
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  #117  
Old 08-25-2019, 5:34 PM
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Bossman:
At the end of the day its up to you on what you really want Calguns to be. However, making it a viable business or a true gun/pro gun activism message board site are something you need to choose. I don't think you can have BOTH as both personalities will clash and won't unite.

On one hand you want all the members and/or daily users as much possible to please advertisers but on the other hand they have no clue or interest on activism whatsoever just trolling to satisfy their personal fancy.

While the real gun guys are so fed up with these trolls they don't come on here anymore or maybe once a month.

A great example I've seen in the past is when someone is asking a gun question, a gun guy takes his time to explain and write his view in detail about the topic but these trolls just discredit with one or two words without any reason behind it but purely a troll play. Its incidents like these make the real gun people not participate anymore.

Sure and of course everyone has their own opinion and not everyone will agree but we can agree to disagree and move on but there are many will always need the last word or need to win.

So in conclusion, it all depends what you want Calguns going forward.

I enjoy being here from playing around sometimes to venting to asking questions to buy/sell, but mostly I enjoy the knowledge of all walks of life here.
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  #118  
Old 08-25-2019, 9:01 PM
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Leel, your post is heartbreaking.

You are bearing your identity as Californian gun ownership here and sounded like you're very tired. Times are changing and sometimes its really hard for us to keep up. Especially when half the country keeps putting the blame on us. Maybe we should listen
ya well times are always changing.. no doubt. as far as listening.. to whom? and keeping up? im kept up well thanks.. haha.. right-o brother.

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Old 08-25-2019, 10:03 PM
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I'm not going to reply much for a bit, I want to hear your thoughts and opinions without skewing them by my input. However I do want to address one point, the concept of Calguns becoming a paid site.

Years ago, 2006 to be exact, I made a promise to this community that Calguns would always be free to join and free to post.
We do have voluntary Contributors who get a few perks but no one is charged to be a member or to post here.
Even if I wanted to make it a pay to join site I can not, I am bound by my promise and I'm okay with that. I knew that when I made the promise and I agree it would limit our reach.

Okay, I just wanted to get that out there, back to your regularly scheduled thread...
Kes, you're a good dude. I'm glad you started Calguns
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Old 08-26-2019, 12:26 AM
Quickdraw559 Quickdraw559 is offline
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Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?

CALGUNS NEEDS A REDIRECTION. I REPEAT, CALGUNS THE FORUM AND ORGANIZATION NEED A REDIRECTION.

There is no doubt about it. In order for us to be effective in reaching a measurable goal (of which I know none), then we are without cause. We cannot simply stand by this “educating the community and promoting shooting” nonsense. I call it nonsense, because it’s clearly not working, and has not been working (at least in this state) for quite some time. We have had a massive influx of people from parts of this country and others, that no amount of education and exposure will fix because they DO NOT AGREE. We have to come to terms with this idea. The idea that some people will not change, and some people just hate guns for x or y reason. We are fighting a culture war. Shooting events and education should not be used to sway political opinion. Those events and education should be used to bolster our position, and will not work to sway the anti-2A crowd. It’s simply an ineffective tactic.

In order to prevail over the enemy, we must know what the enemy believes. We should not refer to statistics as truth. We should not refer to government studies, NGO studies, none of that crap; when we refer to the truth about guns, we refer to our inalienable rights to keep and bear arms, as laid out by our founding fathers in the Bill of Rights, and that is all the truth we need. We mustn’t stray from our rights. This fight is not about guns, this fight is about our rights.


Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?

Hell yes. Obviously. Our political ideology should be preserving the second amendment. We need to, FIGURATIVELY OF COURSE, arm up and stand guard over our constitution against the ****ers trying to invalidate it. Again, not literally arm up and stand watch, but mentally and spiritually.

Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?

No, but I do know of the hidden subforum. Maybe we can open up the “A blank blank” subforum through secret handshakes, and loosen up the rules? OT for members only, hidden subforum for known members? Seems a bit childish, but it will keep a majority of our trash threads hidden from the general public. I would be afraid of it becoming an even louder echo chamber, but what choice is there? Keep the ****. I think **** is plenty for us to get our point across.

Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?

NO. We are fighting a culture war. We need to create a tribe to breed a culture. Not even the Huns wanted to talk about weapons all day.

Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?

We should be able to call each out on our ****. We should be able to expose, tar, and feather a troll, so long as people keep it civil in discussion. We should be able to disagree and have conversations among men. Sometimes people just don’t agree, and we need to learn that it’s OK. We must allow ideas to be presented, and either argued until accepted, or beaten with a stick until the idea is dead in the water. Sometimes a member might get into a heated discussion with another member (I know I’m guilty) and we should be able to. How else will we learn to accept each other and coexist with ourselves? Sometimes men just need to say some nasty **** to each other and trade a couple punches before they shake hands and have a beer. Don’t go all nanny on us.

We can’t fight on emotion, but we must fight with it. We are Americans, not robots. The emotion and passion felt by our founding fathers was probably incomprehensible. We must find and harness this passion, and passion can be brought about with discussion. We need to have those discussions, and as we all know how more rules “solves” a problem, amirite?

Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?

Middle ground. Remember, build a tribe to breed a culture. This is a culture war, Kes!

We've become stagnant and frankly a bit complacent and I don't blame anyone more than myself.
They say a fish rots from the head down and I've felt rather disconnected and disengaged for a while now.

You know what, I’m going to call you on that.

You’re absolutely right. You know, as well as the rest of us, that you are the stitching holding together the calguns forum. No need to get into specifics, we all ****ing know it.

You are not present on these forums enough. Why can’t you start up a little bull**** thread of the calguns truck that everyone knows and loves? Shine her up real nice and post a thread in OT so we can all ohhh and ahhh. Make your presence known, as any leader should. Don’t just lurk in the shadows with a monthly ban threat in some random dumpster fire thread, grab the reigns and be the leader! Shut down calguns for 5 minutes and hide all the threads for a gag. Get into an argument about what combination pizza is the best. Something! I get it, you have a life and can’t be all over the state to shoot with us at events, that’s why we all use this forum. Let your presence be known.

Don’t get even me started on calguns presence in the valley. The Fresno area has over a million people. Sheriff Mims is pro-2A and should be worked with. Bakersfield is growing fast. Another great sheriff. Merced County, Tulare County, all pro-2A sheriffs. Calguns should be working with them. There has to be some mutually agreeable political positioning to be gained with coordination with local sheriffs that have expressed their backing of the Constitution.

We’re hung out to dry. No calguns events. No calguns.net truck sightings. The valley is gun loving but gets no love because we aren’t living in a million dollar 3/2 next door to a Whole Foods. At least, that’s how I and many valley residents feel with regard to 2A groups and their general interaction with our community. I know you all think we’re out in the middle of no where, but there are real Americans out here and we occupy the territory between Sac and LA. Keep that in mind.
That’s all I got. I did the best I could on my phone without spending more than the hour I already did.

Feel free to bonk me with the ban hammer, just don’t make it permanent!
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