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Announcements and Suggestions This is a place for suggestions, news and updates about the site.

View Poll Results: Which Software Should We Move To?
vBulletin 4 55 38.19%
Xenforo 32 22.22%
SMF 54 37.50%
Other (Specify in the thread) 3 2.08%
Voters: 144. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old 04-12-2018, 3:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
As I mentioned earlier, my preference would be to not change a thing but that's becoming less and less of an option. Soon it simply won't be an option.

With no patches coming security is going to become a problem and it's not just the forum software it's the server as well.
With vB3.8.x we're locked in to an old version of PHP and MySQL which means server security and stability can be compromised as well.
We can't have another attack from the dreaded spambots or Russians...

Git-r-done...
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  #42  
Old 04-12-2018, 3:27 PM
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If vBulletin 3.x is EOL then I'd suggest doing an interim upgrade to vB 4, but with a long-term migration plan to Xenforo.
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  #43  
Old 04-12-2018, 3:29 PM
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Based on the information provided, wouldn't the open source SMF product that comes with regular free upgrades be best? None of them are much graphic design wise. Are they all roughly equal functionality wise? That was not discussed in the OP.

The answer to that question may mitigate what follows. But if they are roughly the same in functionality/ease of use;

If the open source one, which is likely free(?), also happens to be the most resource efficient, maybe there's something here I'm not understanding, but this sure seems like the proverbial 'no-brainer' to me. Someone please tell me why we would NOT use the open source SMF product?

Last edited by sfarchitect; 04-12-2018 at 3:33 PM..
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  #44  
Old 04-12-2018, 3:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfarchitect View Post
Based on the information provided, wouldn't the open source product that comes with regular free upgrades be best? None of them are much graphic design wise. Are they all roughly equal functionality wise? That was not in the OP.

But if the open source one, which is likely free(?), also happens to be the most resource efficient, maybe there's something here I'm not understanding, but this sure seems like the proverbial 'no-brainer' to me.

Someone please tell me why we would NOT use the open source product?
As far as graphic design goes, they can all be tweaked to Kes's (and/or our) liking visually-speaking, the more important thing is what the software limitations are, and what features they might lack, or have implemented differently.
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  #45  
Old 04-12-2018, 3:44 PM
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There is no Bacon option in this poll = poll failure.

I vote create your own software...Baconorumapatalka. Be the leader, top of the food chain, change the game, neva bin dun befo.
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  #46  
Old 04-12-2018, 3:52 PM
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Used invision powerboard many times, not sure of its current feature set.


https://invisioncommunity.com/
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  #47  
Old 04-12-2018, 3:57 PM
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Can I request that we get a warning a few days in advance before the change, so we have a chance to make our own backups of stuff we want to save just in case?
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  #48  
Old 04-12-2018, 4:07 PM
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vB4 seems to be a dead end. VB5 is out, but not sufficiently agile.

Xenforo has potential, and fielded 2.0 at the end of last year, so should have some stability for a few years. But, I think I hate the look and feel.

SMF open sourcing can leverage "hive" solutions and may help resource management and future agility.

Soooo.....SMF.
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  #49  
Old 04-12-2018, 5:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
vB4 seems to be a dead end. VB5 is out, but not sufficiently agile.

Xenforo has potential, and fielded 2.0 at the end of last year, so should have some stability for a few years. But, I think I hate the look and feel.

SMF open sourcing can leverage "hive" solutions and may help resource management and future agility.

Soooo.....SMF.
My thoughts as well.
Open source for customization if/when needed.
SMF appears to be the best option for future growth and non-obsolescence.
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  #50  
Old 04-12-2018, 5:39 PM
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Better take a screen shot of my iTrader ratings, worked hard to keep a triple A+ rating.

All things being equal I dislike SMF the least if VB4 is also close to EOL.

.
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  #51  
Old 04-12-2018, 6:11 PM
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I vote for whatever is easier to maintain.
I also discourage usage of unsupported or custom mods since future maintenance is usually more difficult.
So the Open Source-ness of SMF is not necessarily an asset unless we have a SMF project contributor calgunner here.
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  #52  
Old 04-12-2018, 6:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Can I request that we get a warning a few days in advance before the change, so we have a chance to make our own backups of stuff we want to save just in case?


I would second this with a caveat... when pushing the upgrade live keep a static version of this one accessible to users read only for a few weeks at a changed top level domain? If anyone notices content not working or looking the same it’s easier to help point you at the issues if you have that.


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  #53  
Old 04-12-2018, 7:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ac398 View Post
SMF or Xenforo. VB4 looks terrible, its just a wall of text seeing things and picking things out while scrolling is difficult
Maybe it loaded wrong for you? That's not what I see when I go to a page using it.

The someone that grew up on the I-phone with its cartoonish graphics and pastel rainbowness might think that, so it's plausible.

.
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  #54  
Old 04-12-2018, 7:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordmorgul View Post
Xenforo has by FAR the best mobile theme and is usable that way.

Whatever is chosen I hope is still compatible with Tapatalk.


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  #55  
Old 04-12-2018, 7:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Just to point this out, the software we're currently using is over 11 years old.
We ARE a bulletin board from 10 years ago!
HAH! I know. I realized that after I posted that and got a bit of a chuckle from it.



.
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  #56  
Old 04-12-2018, 7:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
As far as user interface is concerned, the other options you provided are all terrible.

I've used a lot of web forums over the years, and Calguns has always been my favorite one to navigate. I doubt I'm alone in this. If you change it dramatically, you risk confusing and alienating people who have grown used to it over the years.

IMHO.
Agree. I like condensed formats. Tight groups, if you want to call it that; seems fitting, know?

I hate all the empty space that has become a design trend on not only bulletin-boards, but bank websites, financial institutions, and such; it's like suddenly everyone is catering their page designs to a 13-year old girl who likes the pretty pastel colors because they match her Hello Kitty backpack and reading is too much of a chore, where communication by insipid acronyms and smiley faces has taken over the slightest ability to convey something other than a fart.

Yet, I know that when it comes down to it, the engine is the most important thing and those that have to work with it will take function over form. Due to that, begrudgingly, I understand.

.

Last edited by CALI-gula; 04-12-2018 at 7:54 PM..
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  #57  
Old 04-12-2018, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freonr22 View Post
silly question, but what are the soft and hard cost differences between these?
vB4 is covered under my current vB license so no extra cost.
SMF is free open source software so no cost.
Xenforo is $140 initial cost then $40/year for support and updates. If I add in their enhanced search and Gallery options that's another $110 and $25/year for support and updates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Can I request that we get a warning a few days in advance before the change, so we have a chance to make our own backups of stuff we want to save just in case?
Oh heck yeah! Nothing is going to happen without copious notices, announcements and warnings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordmorgul View Post
I would second this with a caveat... when pushing the upgrade live keep a static version of this one accessible to users read only for a few weeks at a changed top level domain? If anyone notices content not working or looking the same it’s easier to help point you at the issues if you have that.
That's not a bad idea at all, I'll have to looking in to setting that up.
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  #58  
Old 04-13-2018, 3:01 AM
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Ok i voted for SMF because im used to it on a motorcycle forum. You can see what i will suppose is a current version here:
http://malaysianbikers.com.my/forum/...p?action=forum

This one uses vBulletin 3.8.8 and has set it up, for me, in a dis-likable way.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/

I think there is something to like and dislike about all of them. With the exception of advertising space, whichever one seems to have less clutter and ease of navigation is the winner.
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  #59  
Old 04-13-2018, 3:01 AM
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After reddit went full retard on subreddits linking to sales or trading of certain items a bunch of people jumped ship in the tobacco subreddits to a newly setup website https://speak-easy.club/ ... its apparently XenForo.. seems pretty nice so far..

I like how it shows if you have posted in a thread by putting your avitar on the corner of the thread icon. It also tells you if your post has been liked or quoted in the inbox area.
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  #60  
Old 04-13-2018, 5:25 AM
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Other than regional content/laws the current format is one of the reasons I prefer CGN over GlockTalk and others. (I just don't do GlockTalk any longer because of the format and invasive ads).

I realize change is inevitable and it appears CGN is not the only site to need to update. Since some of us are familiar with the SMF format (Calguns. org) due to CGN outages in the past, my vote is SMF if we must change.

Respectfully,
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  #61  
Old 04-13-2018, 7:25 AM
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The SMF example back on P-1 looks good.
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  #62  
Old 04-13-2018, 7:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALI-gula View Post
Maybe it loaded wrong for you? That's not what I see when I go to a page using it.

The someone that grew up on the I-phone with its cartoonish graphics and pastel rainbowness might think that, so it's plausible.

.
No i think it loaded right, I see the formatting and pictures and all that good stuff. Everything just blends together.
Like another poster said
"The thread titles arent bolded and get lost with the second line and nothing stands out when scrolling. You have to really look to pick out the thread title from the poster name and other misc info on the 2nd line.
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  #63  
Old 04-13-2018, 8:16 AM
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Of the 3 options, I like the Xenforo best.

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  #64  
Old 04-13-2018, 9:20 AM
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Thanks for asking for input. It's pretty cool that the members here are consulted on stuff like this.
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  #65  
Old 04-13-2018, 2:57 PM
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Vb4 or zenforo 2nd
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  #66  
Old 04-13-2018, 8:21 PM
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I just want to say that it's hilarious that my "I don't like change!" Crying Stewie meme is still the picture for this thread on Tapatalk
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  #67  
Old 04-13-2018, 10:47 PM
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I worked on building the Rivals.com network of forums at Yahoo Sports. We had ~750,000 daily active forum users across all ~100 of our forums. We picked Xenforo because it has the most active development team. While SMF is open source, it does not have a good track record with security and it's development is not as active as Xenforo. We had no issues whatsoever with Xenforo when I worked at Yahoo Sports.

If you switch to SMF, be prepared to get hacked once in a while.

SMF:
Stable release: 2.0.15 (November 19, 2017; 4 months ago)
Preview release: 2.1 Beta 3 (June 1, 2017; 10 months ago)

Xenforo:
Stable release: 2.0.4 / March 16, 2018; 24 days ago
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  #68  
Old 04-14-2018, 1:18 PM
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Another thought, Xenoforo is probably the best way to win California back in regards to pro2A activism from having used other Xenoforo forums. Its trending threads/topics homepage thing really gets and keeps the community up to date with current and relevant events.

Besides having an easier to use platform with better options, Xenoforo has very good options with different layouts. WIN CALIFORNIA BACK!
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  #69  
Old 04-14-2018, 1:28 PM
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Did not see a choice for the venerable RBBS-PC. Public domain, open source, very light on resources, supports dial-up access.

-Mark
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  #70  
Old 04-14-2018, 3:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Exile Machine View Post
Did not see a choice for the venerable RBBS-PC. Public domain, open source, very light on resources, supports dial-up access.

-Mark
Meh... Mustang is much better, had it's roots in Collossus.
Opus is okay, but the format is a little plain.
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Old 04-14-2018, 9:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
The High Road is xenforo.

It's OK; can't say I like that color scheme, but surely that much can be customized.
This isn't bad, not great, but not bad.
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  #72  
Old 04-14-2018, 11:50 PM
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Well some new information has come to light.

While researching vB4 to see what the upgrade would entail I found a post on the official vBulletin customer service forum announcing that as of December 2017 vB4 was being considered EOL.
No updates or improvements anymore just security patches for a while.

This puts a bit of a different spin on things, it seems that if we want to stay with vBulletin it's going to be vB5.

Here is what vB5 looks like in it's generic form: https://www.vbulletin.com/forum/
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  #73  
Old 04-15-2018, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Well some new information has come to light.

While researching vB4 to see what the upgrade would entail I found a post on the official vBulletin customer service forum announcing that as of December 2017 vB4 was being considered EOL.
No updates or improvements anymore just security patches for a while.

This puts a bit of a different spin on things, it seems that if we want to stay with vBulletin it's going to be vB5.

Here is what vB5 looks like in it's generic form: https://www.vbulletin.com/forum/
Yikes. Figures.

But why is it such a new trend in web design to have so much empty space, and be completely devoid of simple visual cues like using separators, sharp contrasting colors, and condensing the display so that related matter segues nicely to the content for which it is related?

This collage of empty space, pastels or muted grays all awash together, bland or weak fonts, and vastly disjointed text floating afar from what it references with no cohesive encapsulating or subjects is just weird. Yet you see it now on everything from bank webpages, information sites, Ebay, Paypal, to nearly all of these bulletin boards; even Gunbroker as taken on this design trend lately.

A lot of it looks like someone from Toys-r-Us or Playskool came up with the interface.

.
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  #74  
Old 04-15-2018, 5:28 AM
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I know my eyes are not in the greatest shape but vB5 is really difficult for me to read.

Obviously the web designers have young eyes. Just wonder why the pay good money for wide screen monitors to squeeze small text in an equally small central area?

Respectfully
Kyle
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  #75  
Old 04-15-2018, 9:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALI-gula View Post
But why is it such a new trend in web design to have so much empty space, and be completely devoid of simple visual cues like using separators, sharp contrasting colors, and condensing the display so that related matter segues nicely to the content for which it is related?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle1886 View Post
Obviously the web designers have young eyes. Just wonder why the pay good money for wide screen monitors to squeeze small text in an equally small central area?
It's all being optimized for mobile users.

On the colors, I really, really, really don't get it.
Google Maps works fine on my phone, but on Android Auto, I had to spend an hour tweaking the display contrast and settings to be able to actually see the freeway lines against the background.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #76  
Old 04-15-2018, 10:09 AM
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CaliforniaLiberal CaliforniaLiberal is offline
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I hate change.

I will adjust eventually and I'll complain only to people around me and not online.

You should have seen me when we started documenting patient care on computer. I'm a retired hospital RN and there is always a ton of documentation to be performed.

I was accustomed to using paper forms and writing narratives by hand.

The software was a nightmare. Was not well structured or even structured at all, took many months to learn and then another couple of years of near constant changes and fixes.

Eventually learned and adjusted.

The single most important benefit was being able to read MDs orders. The handwriting rule was that if 3 RNs looking at a handwritten order for 15 minutes cannot confidently decode the scritch scratches than the MD earns a phone call, even if it's the middle of night shift.


So I will eventually pick up the pieces of my life and adjust to new CalGuns software and maybe even grow to like it. Might take a couple of years. Don't worry about me I'll be fine.

After reading all the posts I vote for Xenforo.
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  #77  
Old 04-15-2018, 10:53 AM
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Kyle1886 Kyle1886 is offline
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kyle1886 View Post
Obviously the web designers have young eyes. Just wonder why the pay good money for wide screen monitors to squeeze small text in an equally small central area?

[QUOTE=Cokebottle;21525640]
Quote:
It's all being optimized for mobile users
.

I've lived this long without a smart phone, I guess either I deal with it or abstain from forums that are tiny.

Respectfully
Kyle
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  #78  
Old 04-15-2018, 2:18 PM
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Kestryll Kestryll is offline
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I'm testing demo versions of vB5 and Xenforo and I took a couple screen shots of a few changes I've made. These are works in progress so don't judge these as the limits of what we can do.

For example vB5 can have the colors changed to be similar to what we have and I'm trying to find out if Xenforo can be changed to a single column layout like what we have here.



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  #79  
Old 04-15-2018, 2:23 PM
Deedle Deedle is offline
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Originally Posted by Kyle1886 View Post
Obviously the web designers have young eyes. Just wonder why the pay good money for wide screen monitors to squeeze small text in an equally small central area?
I use 2 or more windows side by side, and there's no white space. Full screen is for amateurs.
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Old 04-15-2018, 2:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
I'm testing demo versions of vB5 and Xenforo and I took a couple screen shots of a few changes I've made. These are works in progress so don't judge these as the limits of what we can do.

For example vB5 can have the colors changed to be similar to what we have and I'm trying to find out if Xenforo can be changed to a single column layout like what we have here.



Crap. All crap.

j/k

Although, now we all have your password! muahahaha BRB...gonna ban all the fuitcakes here...
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