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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#201
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QFT
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We’re ALL GOING TO DIE! Can’t somebody do something?!?!?!?! |
#202
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That's why they make the kids wear them when they ride the school bus.. Oh, wait
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We’re ALL GOING TO DIE! Can’t somebody do something?!?!?!?! |
#203
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Ha ha! Good retort.
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Like granular silica through an equatorially constricted chronographic vessel, so are the circadian georotations of our metabolic persistences. |
#204
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You said it's a "fuzzy area... Since their suicidal". You're downplaying this part. They're murderous first and foremost. That is the light in which to analyze it primarily, I'm not as worried about their suicidal tendency.
I answered your question, please answer mine. Not being rude but the round and round isn't needed. If we don't agree, that's fine but let's settle this point of contention and be done. Is the fact these crimes occur in sterile areas a major factor to these types of killers or not? Minor only? Other?
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Stand up and be counted, or lay down and be mounted... -Mac |
#205
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We’re ALL GOING TO DIE! Can’t somebody do something?!?!?!?! |
#206
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Here's an interesting article on the pathology: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/op...s-killers.html
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Like granular silica through an equatorially constricted chronographic vessel, so are the circadian georotations of our metabolic persistences. |
#207
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You never heard me argue for not providing exemptions to LTC holders in sterile areas, though. That's not what I was arguing.
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Like granular silica through an equatorially constricted chronographic vessel, so are the circadian georotations of our metabolic persistences. |
#208
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"When you get the (men) to the range, you just get the men. But when you bring the (women) to the range, you get the (whole family). And that's what's going to save our 2nd Amendment."--Dianna Liedorff "Since self-preservation is the 1st law of nature, we assert the...right to self-defense. The Constitution...clearly affirms the right of every American...to bear arms. And as Americans, we will not give up a single right guaranteed under the Constitution." --Malcolm X |
#209
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Fair enough.
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That's all for me, drifting off topic of the OP... |
#210
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Your argument is overwrought. Goos fraba.
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Like granular silica through an equatorially constricted chronographic vessel, so are the circadian georotations of our metabolic persistences. |
#211
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If it were otherwise, I'd carry in a heartbeat. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. |
#212
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I would never carry without express permission from the school/district administration, and this guy clearly made a career-ending mistake, but you have to understand where he was probably coming from. Also, part of the reason so many of his students were probably OK with this is that a huge chunk of that neighborhood is Navy housing, and the rest is middle-class residential, with an aging (more conservative) demographic. |
#213
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"California requires three-point seat belts on (1) school buses manufactured on and after July 1, 2005 that carry more than 16 passengers, and (2) all other school buses manufactured on and after July 1, 2004. It asks school transportation providers to first allocate seat-belt equipped school buses for elementary school students whenever possible. (Cal. Veh. Code § 27316). State regulations require school bus passengers to (1) use the seat belts; and (2) be taught how to use them in an age-appropriate manner (Cal. Code Regs. Title 5, § 14105)"
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Just taking up space in (what is no longer) the second-worst small town in California. |
#214
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Like granular silica through an equatorially constricted chronographic vessel, so are the circadian georotations of our metabolic persistences. |
#215
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While most of the relatively recent rampage killers were suicidal, not all of them were. Regardless, someone who is in a position of having to defend themselves and/or others against such a person is not generally going to have any really workable options except, when available and possible, shooting back. That the person attacking them may be suicidal is of no consequence in that situation -- it makes no difference whatsoever. That means the tactically sound choice is clear: people in all situations should be able to carry a firearm if they so choose, and that includes teachers such as the one under discussion.
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The Constitution is not "the Supreme Law of the Land, except in the face of contradicting law which has not yet been overturned by the courts". It is THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, PERIOD. You break your oath to uphold the Constitution if you don't refuse to enforce unadjudicated laws you believe are Unconstitutional. The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why. |
#216
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If it is true that many such killers are also suicidal, which appears to be borne out by the available information, then it stands to reason that fear of being shot by armed citizens may not be as dominant a factor in target selection as it might be for a non-suicidal killer. Pretty simple, with no logical fallacies involved. That was my original point on the subject, several posts ago.
The teacher in San Diego broke the law. He committed a stupid, illegal act with a very unfavorable risk to benefit ratio, and he bragged about it to a bunch of 12 year olds, which indicates there was probably an ego component as well. If you think that's the kind of act that will advance the cause of shall issue, you're not seeing the situation very clearly.
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Like granular silica through an equatorially constricted chronographic vessel, so are the circadian georotations of our metabolic persistences. Last edited by Old_Bald_Guy; 02-21-2013 at 3:36 PM.. |
#217
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Unless, of course, you've come upon verified information that the teacher discussed his firearm without a preceding event, such as accidental exposure of it, giving him reason to do so. If so, please cite it.
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The Constitution is not "the Supreme Law of the Land, except in the face of contradicting law which has not yet been overturned by the courts". It is THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, PERIOD. You break your oath to uphold the Constitution if you don't refuse to enforce unadjudicated laws you believe are Unconstitutional. The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why. Last edited by kcbrown; 02-21-2013 at 8:04 PM.. |
#218
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No, I have no additional info. We won't agree on some of this. The bottom line for me is that he chose to break the law.
As far as the soft target issue, I'd like to see an analysis that controls for other variables, because schools have historically been targets for issues much more personal to the murderer than that in many cases.
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Like granular silica through an equatorially constricted chronographic vessel, so are the circadian georotations of our metabolic persistences. |
#219
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Yeap, he f'd up real bad. Didn't want to accept his reality.
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A guy told me one time "don't let yourself get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat from around the corner" Robert Deniro |
#220
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Reality has a way of smacking people between the eyes when they refuse to accept it.
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Like granular silica through an equatorially constricted chronographic vessel, so are the circadian georotations of our metabolic persistences. |
#221
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Some laws are just. Many are not. That you would choose to condemn a man who chose to break an unjust and almost certainly Unconstitutional law -- and a law that is Unconstitutional is no law at all, per Marbury v Madison -- speaks volumes about you. I do not dispute that he broke the law. I dispute that he should be condemned because of it. There are some laws that are so horribly unjust and evil that we should be celebrating when someone has the balls to break them. This is one such case, even though it may not advance the cause of carry in public. I will not encourage someone to break the law, even one as unjust as this, but I will most certainly not condemn them for breaking an unjust law the way you are here. Quote:
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The Constitution is not "the Supreme Law of the Land, except in the face of contradicting law which has not yet been overturned by the courts". It is THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, PERIOD. You break your oath to uphold the Constitution if you don't refuse to enforce unadjudicated laws you believe are Unconstitutional. The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why. Last edited by kcbrown; 02-22-2013 at 4:19 PM.. |
#222
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Our future?
On August 30, 2018 a shooter wounded (insert someone important) after an assassination attempt; the attempted assassination spurred a nationwide outcry. October 2018, the government ordered the surrender of all firearms, and ammunition. As has been the case in almost every nation where firearms registration has been introduced, registration proved a prelude to confiscation. Exempt from the confiscation order, however, were members of the government. A 2020 decree imposed a mandatory minimum penalty of six months in prison for possession of a firearms, even where there was no criminal intent. The text above is an edited version of the text below. I tried to keep my edits minor to prove a point. On August 30, 1918 Fanny Kaplan wounded Lenin during an assassination attempt; the attempted assassination spurred a nationwide reign of terror. In October 1918, the Council of People's Commissars ordered the surrender of all firearms, ammunition, and sabres. As has been the case in almost every nation where firearms registration has been introduced, registration proved a prelude to confiscation. Exempt from the confiscation order, however, were members of the Communist Party. A 1920 decree imposed a mandatory minimum penalty of six months in prison for (non-Communist) possession of a firearm, even where there was no criminal intent.
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"One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws." -MLK "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest." -Gandhi |
#223
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This case is exactly why people need to be informed about the power of jury nullification. Any and every law contrary to the US Constitution is null and void. Chief Justice John Marshall in his opinion of the Marbury v. Madison case said "Certainly all those who have framed written constitutions contemplate them as forming the fundamental and paramount law of the nation, and consequently the theory of every such government must be, that an act of the legislature repugnant to the Constitution is void." People are under no moral or legal obligation to obey unconstitutional laws. If they choose to violate those laws, that's their decision. But I will never vote to convict anybody of violating any gun control laws.
"When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law." That quote is from the book The Law, written in 1850 by Frederic Bastiat. This is exactly where our society is now. We're forcing people to decide between obeying unconstitutional, immoral laws that leave them defenseless or breaking those laws and being able to exercise their natural rights to self defense. Frankly, that's pathetic. When law and morality contradict -as in this case of choosing between being able to defend oneself and obeying the law - one must choose morality rather than the law. What would you Calgunners think if he successfully stopped an active shooter with the gun he was carrying illegally? Would you still say "the law is the law" and want him to be prosecuted? Or would you support him and try to get the DA to not charge him? Here's a couple more good quotes to think about: " One has not only a legal, but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws." And one more: "Freedom begins with an act of defiance". |
#224
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You guys are into tinfoil territory, so I'll leave you to it. Enjoy.
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Like granular silica through an equatorially constricted chronographic vessel, so are the circadian georotations of our metabolic persistences. |
#225
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As a teacher, he should have let the courts and legislature sort it out. Would I feel better carrying concealed on school grounds? Sure. But I'm not the Rosa Parks of the gun rights movement. I'm NOT going to carry until or unless it becomes legal. No way am I going to risk losing my career, losing my pension, and losing my freedom.
The question is, how can we protect our kids in the midst of a disarmament-minded legislature, largely hoplophobic colleagues, and liberal left unions? I have PE equipment in my room, in the form of an aluminum bat near my desk. It's the best I can do, so that's what I do. |
#227
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Impossible to stay away from this thread. There is no comparison between this guy in San Diego and Rosa Parks. None. To believe that there is would require someone to believe that Jim Crow and "may issue" are in some absolutely bizarro world manner similar in scope, severity, and insidious multigenerational harm. If you actually believe that, nothing I say will disabuse you of the notion.
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Like granular silica through an equatorially constricted chronographic vessel, so are the circadian georotations of our metabolic persistences. |
#228
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No wonder you regard this teacher the way you do -- you apparently don't even believe in the right as a right at all! And I would remind you that the "may issue" regime is there precisely because it was intended to target minorities, to "keep them in their place".
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The Constitution is not "the Supreme Law of the Land, except in the face of contradicting law which has not yet been overturned by the courts". It is THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, PERIOD. You break your oath to uphold the Constitution if you don't refuse to enforce unadjudicated laws you believe are Unconstitutional. The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why. Last edited by kcbrown; 02-23-2013 at 9:29 PM.. |
#232
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Like granular silica through an equatorially constricted chronographic vessel, so are the circadian georotations of our metabolic persistences. |
#233
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Old bald guy
Historically gun control measures were put in place to keep people of color from owning firearms mostly pistols. Martin Luther King jr. Applied for a gun permit but as a minister/pastor was found unsuitable. I stand by the Rosa Park statement as a ground breaking act of defiance. I am entertained by your statements essentially rising above us because we don't know what you know Have a wonderful day
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NRA LIFE MEMBER VFW LIFEMEMBER |
#234
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Some one held true to the saying I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6
If I knew where to donate to this guys legal fund I would send a check.
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NRA LIFE MEMBER VFW LIFEMEMBER |
#235
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The border between historical fact and conspiracy theory lately is hard to define. A sign of the times,it seems.
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The more prohibitions you have, the less virtuous people will be. The more subsidies you have, the less self reliant people will be. -Lao-Tzu, Tau Te Ching. 479 BCE The 1911 may have been in wars for 100 years, but Masetro Bartolomeo Beretta was arming the world 400 years before John Browning was ever a wet dream. |
#236
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Really, though, your apparent lack of comprehension of what Jim Crow really entailed is even more evident with your recommitment to your flawed comparison of a teacher who exhibited a complete lack of judgment with a hero who risked her personal safety.
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Like granular silica through an equatorially constricted chronographic vessel, so are the circadian georotations of our metabolic persistences. Last edited by Old_Bald_Guy; 02-25-2013 at 4:27 PM.. |
#237
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#238
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What you call lack of judgement I call exercising a constitutional right. Rosa Parks wasn't making a historical stand either she was just tired and fed up from working all day long and just wanted to sit down (her words). This guy went to work armed to help in case of a massacre.
But hey, I'm glad I could bring everything into focus for you!!! Quote:
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NRA LIFE MEMBER VFW LIFEMEMBER |
#239
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. |
#240
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This country is sick, our lawmakers are sick. That teacher is a good man. The law is wrong. God save us...
"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security." |
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