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  #41  
Old 08-31-2017, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by kcstott View Post
thats what i'm getting you can snag one hell of a good deal even at $1K and be doing good, but add in some discounts, free shipping, and it all adds up
Right now it is $619.99 for the VX-3i TMR 8.5-25x50 (if you have enough 20% off giftcards) they are doing free shipping and extra 10% off for Labor Day.

38% off is not too shabby.
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  #42  
Old 09-07-2017, 2:55 PM
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Are the Sig Optics too new for love? The Tango 4 6-24x50 FFP with zero stops (SOT46001) , for around $900 street price are very nice.
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  #43  
Old 09-07-2017, 3:26 PM
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Originally Posted by driveljay View Post
Are the Sig Optics too new for love? The Tango 4 6-24x50 FFP with zero stops (SOT46001) , for around $900 street price are very nice.
Considering sig has zero experience making optics, you think their stuff isn't rebranded??

And yes too frigging young. I like anything I buy like my women. I want experienced enough to screw back
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That guy is a hack. He worked on one of my ak's and now the damn thing only shoots .50 cal bullets.
The above statement i consider a term of endearment
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  #44  
Old 09-07-2017, 8:50 PM
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Considering sig has zero experience making optics, you think their stuff isn't rebranded??

And yes too frigging young. I like anything I buy like my women. I want experienced enough to screw back
Lol...talking with a sig rep, as I'm sure you are aware, rebranding does happen a lot in the sense that some of the major scopes are made in the same factory. Some of the Sig, Nightforce and Burris scopes come from the same place with options/features set by the Company buying them..at least this what was explained to me by two different reps from two different competing companies in the same conversation.

If the scope performs as advertised and has a good warranty, why not?
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  #45  
Old 09-07-2017, 11:29 PM
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If the scope performs as advertised and has a good warranty, why not?
Because "IF" is still unknown.
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  #46  
Old 09-08-2017, 4:31 AM
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Originally Posted by driveljay View Post
Lol...talking with a sig rep, as I'm sure you are aware, rebranding does happen a lot in the sense that some of the major scopes are made in the same factory. Some of the Sig, Nightforce and Burris scopes come from the same place with options/features set by the Company buying them..at least this what was explained to me by two different reps from two different competing companies in the same conversation.

If the scope performs as advertised and has a good warranty, why not?
As Randall said. and sorry I spend money on solid reputations not bells and whistles. Price mean a little bit when making a decision but in reality it's trust. Se you ask that question like asking "Wait what do you mean the marketing isn't working on you?" I don't respond to marketing, I don't pay any attention to commercials or advertisements, and I sure as hell give very little value to reviews buy professional reviewers.

What I do see is a bunch of fan boys that flock to the company they love and buy stuff blindly because is has a brand name. Yeah I admitted to being a Leupold fan, but that is based on two decades of experience with them and zero failures, I find it funny that guys complain about features not being on one scope and being there on another and they jump ship to an unproven product all because one scope has zero stops.

Zero stops pop up as a desirable feature. maybe for combat, or maybe for the guys pretending to be in combat doing PRS matches. Sorry not me, I don't forget where my current elevation is set because I can read the dial, and it has hash marks to denote where I am in revolutions. thats my zero stop. I'm not ducking bullets for a living and i'm not competing in PRS so i don't loose track of where my scopes are set. I also keep copious notes on what my rifles are doing and what current setting it took to reach x yardage. That info gets updated ever month.

You're barking up the wrong tree. I don't buy stuff on a whim, I'm not a mall ninja, and I have far more brains than money, which is why I like to hang on to my money and spend it on something I trust and know will work and if it should not, I can trust the company to take care it. It's funny everyone preaches how good NF and vortex's return and replacement policy is, I hear about it all the time, guys sent a scope back for this or guys sent a scope back for that,
I've got better then a half dozen Leupold's, not one has ever done anything it should not have, and not one has ever been sent back. They just work. Bragging about a return policy is inversely talking about product flaws and screw ups.
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That guy is a hack. He worked on one of my ak's and now the damn thing only shoots .50 cal bullets.
The above statement i consider a term of endearment
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I fear that even though as tough as life has been for me I have only begun to pay for my sins.
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  #47  
Old 09-08-2017, 3:21 PM
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any feedback on the Athlon Optics Argos 6-24x50 BTR ?

doing searches but in comparing to leopold, half the price.

i do kind of like the plain mil dot reticle. If i can hit **** with a front sight post, then this should be cake.

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  #48  
Old 09-11-2017, 11:00 PM
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To be honest sig feels just like athlon. Decent scope body, decent tracking, mushy turrets.

Swfa would smack down either of them including burris xtr2 if they would pull their head out of their behind and start making an xmas tree reticle. It doesnt even have to be a 34mm tube.

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  #49  
Old 09-12-2017, 4:32 AM
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To be honest sig feels just like athlon. Decent scope body, decent tracking, mushy turrets.

Swfa would smack down either of them including burris xtr2 if they would pull their head out of their behind and start making an xmas tree reticle. It doesnt even have to be a 34mm tube.

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you realize Horus licenses those reticles right, and that drives up the cost of scopes with their licensed reticle, they can't come up with their own design unless it's significantly different than the horus. that and a Xmass tree reticle is not needed unless you're shooting PRS where you don't have the time to turn your turrets,
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Dick.

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Originally Posted by tujungatoes View Post
That guy is a hack. He worked on one of my ak's and now the damn thing only shoots .50 cal bullets.
The above statement i consider a term of endearment
Need prints for your build? Need reference materials for Gunsmithing projects, Click Here
I fear that even though as tough as life has been for me I have only begun to pay for my sins.
Don't forget to have your Liberals spayed or neutered !

Last edited by kcstott; 09-12-2017 at 8:24 AM..
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  #50  
Old 09-12-2017, 4:49 AM
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Originally Posted by kcstott View Post
you realize Horus licenses those reticles right, and that drives up the cost of scopes with their licensed reticle, they can come up with their own design unless it's significantly different than the horus. that and a Xmass tree reticle is not needed unless you're shooting PRS where you don't have the time to turn your turrets,
Oh i know its expensive, i dont even consider any horus licensing because of that. I automatically assume new design reticle.

Definitely its not needed, but it would pretty much take a huge chunk of the budget ffp market back into their playground vs all the new budget ffp players.



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  #51  
Old 09-12-2017, 5:02 PM
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If it wasn't for a patent issue, I think Christmas Trees would be used on every budget "tactical" scope.
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  #52  
Old 09-13-2017, 12:29 PM
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If it wasn't for a patent issue, I think Christmas Trees would be used on every budget "tactical" scope.
True enough. There were some companies that were getting into a tactical line and wanted me to t&e their scopes but none of them had xmas tree reticles and i had asked about it. Was too costly for them to do them at the time.

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  #53  
Old 09-13-2017, 4:18 PM
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True enough. There were some companies that were getting into a tactical line and wanted me to t&e their scopes but none of them had xmas tree reticles and i had asked about it. Was too costly for them to do them at the time.

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See thats the thing is they are willing to give you a scope to "Test", no they are giving you a scope to hopefully brag about so your friends buy one too, and they tell people and so on. Any company that has to give their crap away... Well that a red flag right there. I had that happen when I worked on fishing reels as a side line. Okuma gave me a reel to test, evaluate and do with as i pleased. well I evaluated it as asked but never published it, (Pre you tube) never fished it, sold that pile of crap as fast as i could on ebay, to keep it from stinking up my shop.

It is one thing about saving money and It is another about buying crap thinking it's good enough.
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Dick.

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Originally Posted by tujungatoes View Post
That guy is a hack. He worked on one of my ak's and now the damn thing only shoots .50 cal bullets.
The above statement i consider a term of endearment
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I fear that even though as tough as life has been for me I have only begun to pay for my sins.
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  #54  
Old 09-13-2017, 4:49 PM
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See thats the thing is they are willing to give you a scope to "Test", no they are giving you a scope to hopefully brag about so your friends buy one too, and they tell people and so on. Any company that has to give their crap away... Well that a red flag right there. I had that happen when I worked on fishing reels as a side line. Okuma gave me a reel to test, evaluate and do with as i pleased. well I evaluated it as asked but never published it, (Pre you tube) never fished it, sold that pile of crap as fast as i could on ebay, to keep it from stinking up my shop.

It is one thing about saving money and It is another about buying crap thinking it's good enough.
Theres plenty of well known, quality manufacturers that still send out demo/t&e products.

But i know exactly what you mean about the crappy product companies.

If i see an up and coming product that has potentional im all ears but if all you want is exposure than keep thumbing.

So far the last few up and comers havent let me down or make me bite my tongue.

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  #55  
Old 09-24-2017, 6:06 PM
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What I do see is a bunch of fan boys that flock to the company they love and buy stuff blindly because is has a brand name. Yeah I admitted to being a Leupold fan, but that is based on two decades of experience with them and zero failures, I find it funny that guys complain about features not being on one scope and being there on another and they jump ship to an unproven product all because one scope has zero stops.

Zero stops pop up as a desirable feature. maybe for combat, or maybe for the guys pretending to be in combat doing PRS matches. Sorry not me, I don't forget where my current elevation is set because I can read the dial, and it has hash marks to denote where I am in revolutions. thats my zero stop. I'm not ducking bullets for a living and i'm not competing in PRS so i don't loose track of where my scopes are set. I also keep copious notes on what my rifles are doing and what current setting it took to reach x yardage. That info gets updated ever month.
I hear you on the fickle winds that seem to permeate optics decisions these days. So many new scopes and so many choices, some out of companies that no one has ever heard of. Staying with Leupold sounds like a good idea if you have a relationship with them and know the process for service and warranty if need be. Most of these "new" companies will just send you a new scope if anything is wrong because they are clueless how to fix something their Japanese factory sent them.

There are also all kinds of new "rules" people have about features, which I find hilarious because the conventional wisdom now is totally different from what the conventional wisdom was 10-15 years ago. Back then you had to beg companies for FFP and everyone from the military crowd to the keyboard operators said SFP was the only way to go. Now the opposite is true. Zero stop usually just annoys me, not because I can't find a use for it but because it's now mandatory. I would love a scope that has the ability to have it but then could also turn it off.

One thing I have noticed recently is that the big name companies have gotten scared of the lower budget upstart companies, so they are offering some great deals on their older scopes. Schmidt Bender's used to be ridiculously expensive and difficult to get, now you can get a 5-25 PMII for just about $2500. Most of the old Hensoldt line (the 3-12, 4-16, and 6-24's) are going for a fraction of what they originally sold for. Still very expensive, but those are real military designs as opposed to the latest trend of American companies flying in to LOW in Japan and ordering up stuff and then trying to pass it off as a true military design.
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  #56  
Old 09-24-2017, 8:19 PM
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I hear you on the fickle winds that seem to permeate optics decisions these days. So many new scopes and so many choices, some out of companies that no one has ever heard of. Staying with Leupold sounds like a good idea if you have a relationship with them and know the process for service and warranty if need be. Most of these "new" companies will just send you a new scope if anything is wrong because they are clueless how to fix something their Japanese factory sent them.

There are also all kinds of new "rules" people have about features, which I find hilarious because the conventional wisdom now is totally different from what the conventional wisdom was 10-15 years ago. Back then you had to beg companies for FFP and everyone from the military crowd to the keyboard operators said SFP was the only way to go. Now the opposite is true. Zero stop usually just annoys me, not because I can't find a use for it but because it's now mandatory. I would love a scope that has the ability to have it but then could also turn it off.

One thing I have noticed recently is that the big name companies have gotten scared of the lower budget upstart companies, so they are offering some great deals on their older scopes. Schmidt Bender's used to be ridiculously expensive and difficult to get, now you can get a 5-25 PMII for just about $2500. Most of the old Hensoldt line (the 3-12, 4-16, and 6-24's) are going for a fraction of what they originally sold for. Still very expensive, but those are real military designs as opposed to the latest trend of American companies flying in to LOW in Japan and ordering up stuff and then trying to pass it off as a true military design.
I have to agree, I will add I've never used Leupold's customer service, never had to. I do take care of my stuff but i don't pamper it either. Which is why I only buy Talley rings and bases too. been using them for a two decades no issues and I have used their customer service, Once on a snapped tac ring, Replaced no questions asked.
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Dick.

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Originally Posted by tujungatoes View Post
That guy is a hack. He worked on one of my ak's and now the damn thing only shoots .50 cal bullets.
The above statement i consider a term of endearment
Need prints for your build? Need reference materials for Gunsmithing projects, Click Here
I fear that even though as tough as life has been for me I have only begun to pay for my sins.
Don't forget to have your Liberals spayed or neutered !
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  #57  
Old 09-24-2017, 9:14 PM
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Zero stop usually just annoys me, not because I can't find a use for it but because it's now mandatory.
I would love a scope that has the ability to have it but then could also turn it off.
Just set it 5-10 mils (1 knob rotation) below your actual zero and you will never run into it in normal use.
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  #58  
Old 09-25-2017, 7:50 AM
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Zero stops are nice to have-beats trying to count hash marks or rotations. My Mark 4's all have shims to "zero stop" about 6 to 8 MOA below my 100yd zero. Gives the ability to deal with ammo switch or some other condition that may cause a higher point of impact.
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