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Mac vs PC (yes, really) [Switched!]
Update, I ended up getting a Mac: Post 113
Original: I have been a computer user for a long time: first machine was a ZX81 w/ 1KB RAM and I learned to program on it For most of my life I've been a PC/Windows user and have stuck with it since all the world uses the system and there's never a time when a piece of HW isn't supported and there's an app for everything. But... Windows stinks! - Even uninstalling a piece of crapware takes forever. The system has to "gather information" about the install and crunch on my hard drive. - If there's no network or the link is bad, Windows hangs up, freezes, pauses. This is true of my home machine (Vista64) and my work machine (Win7 Pro.) - The pausing/hanging can take place at other times as well. - My system partition has swollen to 80G after all the Windows "updates" over the last 5 years. I only have ~10G of actual applications installed. I've already tried linux and used it for years. Eventually I got sick of the endless update cycle and fighting software incompatibilities. I use linux at work (cmd line, GUI) and I love it, but it's no good for home use. I'm thinking of switching. A high end 'Pro' PC (eg. nice Lenovo laptop) costs about the same as a Mac, around $1500. (OTOH a cheap laptop is $500 or less so I'm hesitant to blow an extra $1k.) I've been to Apple stores before but it feels like I'm in Whole Foods. Mac guys who have switched from a PC: Is the grass greener over there? Last edited by sd_shooter; 05-20-2014 at 1:11 PM.. |
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I hear ya. I'll say this, they both have pro's & con's. I eventually grew tired of Windows, moved to Linux but found it just too unfriendly, and then moved to OS X.
While OS X does take some getting used to, I found my way around very soon and I can basically do anything with OS X that I can do with Windows. With a few exceptions, but that can usually be solved via VM, dual boot or an emulator program. OS X was always faster, more stable, more secure, and just seemed to work better. I love the way programs install and uninstall, that's a huge plus. Other than most software being Windows only, I had very few complaints in regards to OS X. Come to think of it, the past few months I've been using Windows 7 exclusively (on my MacBook Pro no less), and I'll most likely go back to OS X sooner than later. But we live in a Windows world. Personally, my school work was difficult at times not having access to Windows, and sometimes work can require it as well. I'll leave it at that. It's hard to say go one way or the other.
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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ |
#3
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If you are a hardcore gamer MAC has its downside. I have three games I play, one is a browser based so ok there. The other two are STO and I run that one in a WINE wrapper. The final one is NFSW and I could not get that one to work on OS/X with the wrapper so I dual booted Win7 just to play that game.
I am not a gamer though so I have no need of Windows other than that. I have been in the field since back in the Commodore VIC20 home computer system and on up. I love OS/X and I am with TacticalPlinker, OS/X just works no fuss no muss. The one thing that I am upset about is my DVD burner. I rarely ever use it. I think I have used it about 4-5 times and now it is broken and will not read/write/work! What I would do differently is NOT get the iMAC and get a tower so I could work on it easier for upgrades etc, but I did not have the extra cash.
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"But if someone has a gun and is trying to kill you ... it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." Dalai Lama A system of licensing and registration is the perfect device to deny gun ownership to the bourgeoisie. Vladimir Ilyich Lenin Last edited by LittleOldLady; 03-15-2014 at 6:00 AM.. |
#4
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I was a PC user my whole life. I started withe the Commodore 64 back when I was 8 I think.
About 5 years ago I built a high end PC. But times change and so did I. I know have a wife and three kids kids. My priorities changed. I need a computer that works, period. And the PC's I've had didn't. They required maintenance that I just don't have time for anymore. It got pretty exhausting every time my wife needed to do something for me to have to help her through a problem because the PC would freeze or wouldn't work right or needed an update or had some other problem. We don't use our PC for games but we do use it for everything else. Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Photoshop, internet browsing, email, etc... Just this past January I finally got sick and tired of PC problems and went out and bought a Mac. So it's only been a couple months but we couldn't be happier with the purchase. The computer simply works. It's like a Toyota. It cost a little more but it runs. And that's what is most important to me. It took a few days to get use to OS X but now it's easy to use. I don't ever see me buying a PC again. No reason to IMO. I've out grown them. Just in case you didn't know the new iMac's don't come with a CD drive so I had to buy one separately. I bought an Apple superdrive for like $75. I was OK without it but my wife still likes using discs for certain things. Since I bought the iMac I've put on $170 Microsoft Office and a $1600 Adobe Masters. Photoshop looks amazing on the iMac and is really fun to use. The mouse has a touchscreen top like an iPhone and reads finger gestures for easier navigating. I did activate the old PC "Right Click," as I couldn't help but keep trying to use it. |
#5
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I too am VERY tired of Windows shortcomings, and actually supported ~1600 Windows users via Pear Linux for 6 months, when I got pissed off at Win7x86.
Windows 7 x86 actually ran better in a VM than natively on a quad-core Phenom, AND a Core2Quad. PCs can also run Linux, or *BSD* as the "native" OS, can a Mac without an additional purchase of VM stoftware? Macs EOL's OS updates faster than M$, don't they? XP came out in 2001, and just gets EOL'd next month (4/2014). THAT IS a good run. I know a guy that has a father-in-law that bought Macs for the whole office to have the Mac experience on the desktop. He then had to buy windows for all, and VM software of them to run an application that his office purchased as they don't make much software for small companies for Macs. He had to pay about 4x as much as he would have for PCs. The problem is that most software for offices doesn't run on Macs... Last edited by the86d; 03-15-2014 at 8:05 AM.. |
#6
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I have extensive time with both OS. I hate Mac OS.
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NRA Benefactor Life Member NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle & Refuse To Be A Victim Instructor American Marksman Training Group Visit our American Marksman Facebook Page Diamond Bar CCW Facebook Page NRA Memberships at Discounted fee |
#7
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Get a registry cleaner and it will relieve some of your built up OS junk. also remember to defrag and clean out other things like temp files, downloads, etc. there are programs that assist you in "one clicking" these away. If you spend as much on a PC as you would on a MAC, i think you will find that most of your problems will disappear. A lot of peoples complaints about PCs usually stem from the fact that there are so many budget models and others built very cheaply in order to satisfy the pocketbook of a larger market. Spend the money on a quality computer and You'll be satisfied. - computer builder. Last edited by mudbass7; 03-15-2014 at 8:40 PM.. |
#8
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I stopped caring a long time ago what other people in my work environment run for their own OS as long as it doesn't disrupt productivity.
Plus, I don't handle user device support. We have a help desk for that. Note that while the help desk personnel will build out and or provision workstations/laptops for staff in the office, everyone in my group (basically the "systems administrators") handles their own devices. The only time someone else's choice of an OS affects me is when collaborating on MS Office based documents, such as Word. It's always the Linux users with Openoffice that mess up the various extended markups within .doc and .docx such as the editing notes, etc. Other than that, a person's choice in an OS in my group won't affect their ability to sysadmin hosts, write code/scripts, and conduct standard devops tasks. As far as why I choose Mac, it's because I want the balance of both commercial and open source software in the native OS. Mac OS X pretty much gives me the GUI I've always wanted out of *nix since 1997, and I get all the flexibility of working in a BSD/Unix environment while editing photos (Photoshop and Lightroom) and video (Premiere). Back in the 90's I ran Cygwin in Windows, but I found various issues porting code from *nix to Cygwin, that I just switched to Linux for my development environment. And that's what you need to key on when choosing your computer (hardware and OS): Will it effectively and efficiently handle the tasks you need it for? Forget how it works for other people. All that matters is how it will work for you.
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Distinguished Rifleman #1924 NRA Certified Instructor (Rifle and Metallic Cartridge Reloading) and RSO NRL22 Match Director at WEGC https://www.ocabj.net |
#9
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I have used, owned and bounced between both platforms for years. I went 100% Mac about ten years ago for my business (video production company) but my wife and son still had PCs and I took a two year corporate job recently where my work computer was a PC. so unlike many, I have truly lived in both worlds for two decades.
Here are some observations... 1. Windows has improved a lot. Older versions were so bug ridden and craptastic that it was a miracle they even functioned. Windows 7 and now 8 are much more stable than older versions. 2. I would agree that if gaming is important, a PC is a better choice. Fortunately I despise gaming so that's not a concern for me, but it could be for you. 3. If you like to edit, consume and work with media, especial Photoshop, video editing, motion graphics or sound design, Macs bury PCs in general. Not that you can't do those things on PC, you can, it's just that the tools available and the OS on the Mac is superior for media generation and or consumption. 4. Macs are, in general, built better than the average PC. You can build a custom PC that is built very well for $2 or 3k, but if you compare a $1,500.00 PC with a $1,500.00 Mac, the Mac will just have a higher perceived quality of build and materials. 5. I have helped four friends and families switch over from PC to Mac. It isn't always seamless, can be a bit of a challenge but overall, if your needs are fairly average, not that difficult to make the switch. Good luck.
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NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor, Shotgun Instructor and Range Safety Officer |
#10
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In the mid 80s I started with windows, but quickly got frustrated. The big problem was that I needed to have a sort of a "cheat sheet" reminding me of some critical items and information I had to keep track of to make the computer actually work.
I tried a Mac, and the frustration went away. Apple had realized that it was a computer, perfectly capable of keeping track of all those niggling details on its own so I didn't have to. Things got better and better for a while, then companies started to have IT departments which supported the PCs they had for their workers. It was soon noticed that Mac shops required fewer IT workers than Windows shops, and the fate of the Mac was sealed. No IT manager would ever recommend a computer which would lead to a smaller IT department. He always wanted more people which led to more salary and more importance for himself. But smaller shops, who couldn't afford an IT department, still liked Macs better. Right now I am retired, DW does consulting, and I have started picking up some consulting also. Anything I have to do, I can do better and more easily on my Mac, and I don't have to hire an IT department. She started out an ardent windows user and is now a mac convert for 10 years. Get a Mac and buy the Applecare for it. If you have any trouble with it you can call a tech support person who lives either in the US or Canada. No mysterious foreign accents to decipher. If you live in a city with an apple store, they offer classes for very reasonable rates. And, if you have a hardware problem, they will fix it in the store. If they have to ship the computer off, if you have a credit card, they will sell you a different one which is fully returnable for 100% credit within 2 weeks. I have used this service and it works just like advertised. No hassle on the return and no BS. Just a credit back to your card. |
#11
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I've not used windows, (ok I did once have one on my desk at work for calendar about 15 years go - hated it - the modal UI is horrible).
Since the CP/M days, I've mostly used unix (SunOS and BSD). I bought an iMac several years ago for iMovie - it "just works". I used to run BSD on my laptops, but when work made Mac's available, I switched. OS/X annoys me a lot, but is way better than Windows and still lets me run Outlook for calendar (sucks but no choice), and a decent browser. Of course is all depends on what you use computers for - I don't play games at all, I write software and docs, email chat etc. The thing I find most annoying about OS/X is lack of documentation and support. Its "user friendly" who needs docs? Yeah sure. When something goes wrong and you google - you can find lots of folk with the same problem but few answers. At least on BSD I have the source, as well as the man pages. I really like the Mac Air, battery life is good (so far). |
#12
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I am a mac hater but this is a nice thread. I am glad to see that it was started correctly and that all of the input that folks have contributed has been positive and somewhat only slightly biased if biased at all. In other words, Glad there are no GET A MAC THEY FIX EVERYTHING comments...
I will probably always be a PC guy because it is what I do. It took about a month to adjust, but when I got picked up to work as an intern for the city on their helpdesk, I got dropped into windows 7 with office 2013. I was not familiar with Windows 7, but now I find myself speccing out the machines so that I can build a nice win7 machine at the house when we upgrade. Not to mention now I want dual monitors. There is ONE maybe TWO macs that we encounter from time to time, but now that folks are getting iPads, and funny how several if not most of the helpdesk guys all have iPads of some sort, I got a chance to administer one or two via iTunes and well. The enemy looks somewhat impressive up close. As for graphics, one thing that I have always wondered was if MAC just wanted to be faster or if PC did not care to be faster, but it seems that many earlier MACs that I have opened up were SCSI based where most PC folks don;t even know what SCSI is. You bring up terminator and they think of a movie for some odd reason... I kinda see the MACs as being the new GOOD political party to go with, they have inteligence, they are quick and they are gaining support, where I am wondering if all those years, the PC movement has been about keeping the poor folks barely moving around at slow speeds (while macs zoomed past with bigger pipes). So MAYBE PCs were just holding us all back... Anyways, I will be a PC for life, but the problem I think has been Microsoft. They, along with Intel had such a large hold and monopoly (yes they did too!) on PC hardware and software that it was a tough fight for AMD and others to squeeze in for consumers. While they fought it out, Macs stayed as they were and just kept developing into better machines. Yeah anyways, I am not a hardcore gamer, but I DO love my Skyrim and CS: Global Offensive as well as FA and SupCom. With everything opening up in the world today, things seem to be a bit easier to build and customize your own PC. Macs never seem to want to let that go. I never heard about building your own MAC from scratch. I never understood why they never allowed that, but I would think that with the right PC parts, you can build an intel based system and install OSX and have little to no problems on it... Okay I am done and it is late have a nice one folks.
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7 Billion people on the planet. They aint ALL gonna astronauts. Some will get hit by trains... Need GOOD SS pins to clean your brass? Try the new and improved model... And remember- 99.9% of the lawyers ruin it for the other .1%... |
#13
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Windows 7 all the way
I'm a lifelong PC guy. Been using Linux since '93 but in general, I do most of what I need to do (business and entertainment) in Windows. I build my own computers (except laptops).
A new PC running Windows 7 64bit is the way to go. A new quadcore system with 32GB RAM is the way to go. 16GB can be enough for some people, but 32GB is recommended so that you can outright disable swap files. Windows 8 and 8.1 is a travesty. Worse than Vista. This is what you do: Buy a new (PC) computer. Don't pay attention to what OS it comes with. Install and format with Windows 7 Install apps, etc. NEVER disable UAC (User account control: when the screen dims and asks you if you want to proceed). This feature is the last line of defense against installing things that require administrative level access. Don't use an admin account so that you have to type a password in to allow UAC to continue. Yes, it can be a bear when installing things, but that's the idea: you don't install all that often, and you shouldn't be having to enter your admin credentials on a regular basis. If your program requires admin privileges, it was not written properly for Windows Vista and newer. Get MS Security essentials, or Avast antivirus. Both are fee. Avast is better but a little naggy. UAC + a decent antivirus + a modicum of caution will make your computer very hard to infect. Kaspersky if you want to get a paid for AV program (and Fry's often has it for free after rebates) Here is info regarding where to get Windows 7 install media and how to install: You will need the following: Blank CD and DVDs or 4GB+ Flash drive Working computer to download and burn CDs or create bootable flash drives Bittorrent software, web browser Step 1: Download and create Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit (refreshed version) ISO or Boot USB: http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-59465.iso Make boot CD or use this tool to create bootable USB: http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/...usbdvd_dwnTool Install Windows. Step 2: Activate Windows BEFORE DONIG ANYTHING ELSE (windows 7 loader 2.2.1 by daz from TPB): Get Windows 7 loader: http://bit.ly/1d7odHH Step 3: Get Chipset and Network drivers if needed from Intel, AMD, whatever. Good luck Step 4: Windows update. Additional stuff: *** BE CAREFUL - Don't install extra junk. Pay attention during installation. Uncheck boxes for unnecessary software. *** Firefox - https://download-installer.cdn.mozil...tub%2026.0.exe (Download the rest using Firefox) (Install missing drivers if needed before continuing. Download using Firefox) Adobe Flash (Firefox) - http://aihdownload.adobe.com/bin/liv...sd_aaa_aih.exe Adobe Flash (IE) - http://aihdownload.adobe.com/bin/liv...sd_aaa_aih.exe Adobe Shockwave (don't install Norton) - http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/get...aller_Slim.exe Adobe Reader - http://aihdownload.adobe.com/bin/liv...sd_aaa_aih.exe Java - http://javadl.sun.com/webapps/downlo...BundleId=81819 MS Silverlight - http://silverlight.dlservice.microso...rlight_x64.exe MS Security Essentials - http://mse.dlservice.microsoft.com/d...mseinstall.exe 7-zip - http://downloads.sourceforge.net/sevenzip/7z920-x64.msi (after installing 7-zip, right click on '7-Zip file Manager', run as administrator, go to tools, option, select everything except ZIP, apply, OK, close) Don't install Google Chrome as administrator. Download & install it to the user, and when asked for administrator credentials, choose no. Chrome installer will ask if you want to install without administrator privileges. Choose yes. http://google.com/chrome
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All your base are belong to us |
#15
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Go Windows 7 64 bit (32 bit is good but memory limitation)
Installed Windows 7 pro on custom build. Nothing crazy. Has been super stable and very few if any OS related problems. I find often times the user creates problems in Windows. Mac is also good. But why pay so much when you easily have a great performing computer for half the price as long as you use a little discretion in your activities.
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"No fate no fate but the one we make" -Sarah Connor "No Compromise" -Rorschach "An elected legislative body can trample a man's rights just as easliy as a King" -Benjamin Martin "So we stepped off the path" -Mr. Parker |
#16
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And I am the exact reverse of that statement. And anyone that think the latest version of Windows is a great thing needs to have a psych exam ASAP.
Last edited by DaveInOroValley; 03-19-2014 at 3:23 PM.. |
#17
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If your PC had an SSD for the windows drive instead of an HDD, all the drive crunching you complain about wouldn't even be noticed. Also, time to get rid of vista....
On Linux if you want to avoid the endless update cycle, go with a distro that doesn't have it, or use a version of a distro that is more stable. I like using Ubuntu LTS releases, which are supported for 3 years. |
#18
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And thanks to the earlier poster about the Win7 install guide. I initially did that when I put Vista on this machine (Vista was new at the time) and it _was_ pretty fast when it was new. But now with many system updates (and corresponding 'restore points' later...) the system is pretty crusty. Given my experience w/ Win7-Pro I'm not convinced things would really be that much better. But I am certain I would blow a couple weekends getting everything running. |
#20
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Just get a Mac already!
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http://www.5arrowstactical.com/ NRA Training Counselor Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, PPIH, PPOH Chief Range Safety Officer |
#21
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I sometimes don't understand the logic, if any, behind the decisions Microsoft makes. But they're driven entirely by greed/money and a 90% market share. As I said earlier, we live in a Windows world. Microsoft does everything in their power to keep it that way... Legal or otherwise. Much like politicians. I've spent many years using/studying various operating systems and researching the companies behind them. Technically speaking, I think there are better operating systems out there... But it entirely depends on upon both your needs & your application (what are you using it for) first and foremost. However in terms of simple convenience, mainstream software & hardware compatibility, high availability of support and information, and ease of use, there is no comparison. Windows will always win in those categories until their monopoly, errr... I mean market share, dies a painful death.
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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ |
#22
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How much longer is that big ugly desk thing going to survive in the marketplace?
Desktop pc sells are way down! Wearable computing is around the corner! They are out there working on contact lens with little screens. Two Weeks!
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#23
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I have both and generally have no complaints with either. Big improvements inthe PC can be obtained by tweaking the system to not load or run all the crap apps that run in the background that you really don't need.
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#24
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http://www.blackviper.com (EDIT WITH CAUTION!) You can also look into removing pre-loaded bloat ware from your system easily using app's like http://pcdecrapifier.com I also highly suggest CrapCleaner. Download it. Install it. Use it daily. http://www.piriform.com Simple steps can be taken to improve stability, performance and security... But it's still putting sugar on-top of a bowl of crap.
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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ |
#25
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Mac -> It's BSD unix under the hood.
Built in VPN for work access. Built in VNC, client and server. I use what works. My employer uses Windows for email and such. They give me a laptop that never leaves my desk. I take my personal Mac to meetings. I also have a Linux box on the desk behind me that I also use. A computer is a tool. Use the tool that works for you. Last edited by e90bmw; 03-24-2014 at 1:23 PM.. |
#26
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I went to the Valley Fair mall yesterday. The Apple store is directly across the way from the Microsoft store now they've add a store there, not the smartest business move IMO.
Apple: Full of customers Microsoft: Not 1 customer I was tempted to take a photo of both, but decided against it, now I wish I had taken them. |
#27
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Microsoft has a store?
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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ |
#28
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Microsoft opened brick and mortar retail stores back in 2009. The one I see the most is at South Coast Plaza in Costa Mesa. It's a pretty sad experience.
__________________
Distinguished Rifleman #1924 NRA Certified Instructor (Rifle and Metallic Cartridge Reloading) and RSO NRL22 Match Director at WEGC https://www.ocabj.net |
#29
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Welcome to the future, what's going out here in Silicon Valley is really cutting edge.
Location Level: 1 Store: A11 Phone: 408.454.5940 Westfield Valley Fair Mall Website: Visit Microsoft now. |
#32
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I grew up in an HP family (even worked there myself for a time) and always had HP computers, but switched way back when i went to college because a friend got a nice mac rig and it just felt more thought through somehow. I'm still a mac guy today more than two decades later (i've used PC's as well all the way throughout at work, supporting others, etc). All my PC die hard family that i used to have to play IT support for have now switched as well, and none would ever go back. of course they all had a little adjustment period since they were used to PC's for so long, but the hardware and software i just like better
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#33
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I wish they'd left it alone ;-)
There are bits of BSD in there (a lot), but they "tweaked" a lot too. Some of the changes were good ideas, some not so much. One of the things that annoys me most... my browser and other apple apps will report that they cannot resolve host names. Go to shell, confirm that DNS is working just fine, network is fine, but whatever it is that Apple put b/w DNS and their apps is hosed. Try to ask for answers and all you get is fanboy's telling you there's something wrong with DNS ;-) I use Mac's for web browsing mostly (since browser on NetBSD doesn't support flash etc - not sure I'd want it to), running turbo tax, and M$ office apps. All my real work is done on {Free,Net}BSD. Funny story; I once had a laptop (ibm) with both NetBSD and some version of windows on it (corp IT wouldn't give it you me without windows ;-) anyway, at RSA conference one year they decided to use WPA to authenticate wireless access, and *only* windows was supported! So, I thought what the heck I'll try booting windows.... My laptop ran out of battery before it ever finished booting. |
#34
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#35
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Comparison between a high end Apple 15" and Lenovo 15" pro model.
Apple - $2000 (I could get it for $1839 w/ company discount) (Or $1659 if I get a refurb...) - Model:Macbook Pro 15" - 2GHz quad core i7 ("Up to 3.2 GHz") - 2880x1800 Retina display - 8G RAM - 256G SDD - Intel on-board GPU - Free shipping! Lenovo (Configured to match Mac) - $1874 (Could get for $1780 w/ employee discount) - Model: T-series T540p 15" - 3.4 Ghz core i7 (don't know nominal rate) - 2880x1680 display - 8G RAM - 256G SDD - Intel on-board GPU So... they are really not that far apart. And I'm sure the mac comes with usable software, whereas the Windows machine must be sanitized prior to use due to bloatware. In fact if I got the refurb instead of the NIB, the mac would actually be less. Incredible. Will Christmas come early for me this year? Last edited by sd_shooter; 03-21-2014 at 9:55 AM.. |
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There the disparity is crazy. PCs cost more than Macs. |
#38
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Having owned and used both PCs and Macs, I like them both. Each has certain advantages and disadvantages which others mentioned above.
My last laptop (MacBook pro) would often freeze with the pinwheel spinning. For my new laptop I decided to switch back to PC and bought an Alienware. Been happy so far even with Windows 8.1.
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NRA LIFE MEMBER |
#39
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Grew up on Windows and had a hard time using Macs when I was highschool age. Once Apple switched to OS/X and I became a full time Linux user, Macs became very appealing. Once I stopped wasting a lot if time gaming, I was fully switched over.
OS/X brew is a cool little app if your a Linux guy |
#40
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Took forever for Windows 7 to stabilize, but now that it has, it's good. Windows 8 was awful, but is evolving. 8.1 seems to have fixed a good number of the issues.
I got tired of the vulnerabilities, etc. of the NT platform. I went to OSX and really haven't looked back. I did install VMware Fusion and installed Windows 7 in a separate partition for those times that I do need to work in a Windows environment. |
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