AR Ballistic Comparisons

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by DirtyDave

From our experience in the Hunting forum, if you disagree with him on anything, that must mean you are Anti AR, Anti 2A, and a Democrat

And a troll. He is highly mis informed.

Of course I am a fraud when it comes to hunting. Which is fine.

Still looking for the pics of all those San Diego hogs he's killed. Maybe he can teach me a few tricks? I need lots of help with killing deer too.

[penguinofsleep]

hue hue hue at the amount of silly courtesy of OP.

if i had to pick it'd be 6.5 grendel though.

[advocatusdiaboli]

Originally Posted by taperxz

Hunting rounds are not designed to come out the other side. They mushroom, rip, tear and create havoc internally.

Sure, but different bullets do that to a different degree based on design depending on impact velocity and energy as they penetrate as you certainly know. I was speaking in general terms to make a point and keep it simple

[Don@Tahoe]

[QUOTE= i'm done with this thread.[/QUOTE]


Definitely one of your better statements.

[Chontkleer]

Originally Posted by russ69

You guys crack me up. You are arguing the merits of a 222 vs a 223. I'm sure the squirrel you hit won't know the difference even if there is some theoretical data that shows the 223 is much better on paper.

Thank you!

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by advocatusdiaboli

Sure, but different bullets do that to a different degree based on design depending on impact velocity and energy as they penetrate as you certainly know. I was speaking in general terms to make a point and keep it simple

The real point is this guy is splitting hairs when it comes to killing animals and it's a retarded argument. A hunter prior to entering the field shoul consider the terrain, species, foliage of the area, weather conditions and understand the average distance for a fair shot at the species being hunted.

Xcountry brings all these charts and tries to prove his point but dismisses all that really matters. Which is simply making sure of HIS abilitys, having the best optics available to him and carrying enough fire power to put the animal down with one shot and avoid wounding and losing the animal after he shoots it.

Everything else is BS!

[elx144]

Originally Posted by rabagley

I see Randall has already been here. I'll just put it out there that emacs wipes the floor with vim.

You're comparing an operating system to a text editor.

[advocatusdiaboli]

Originally Posted by taperxz

The real point is this guy is splitting hairs when it comes to killing animals and it's a retarded argument. A hunter prior to entering the field shoul consider the terrain, species, foliage of the area, weather conditions and understand the average distance for a fair shot at the species being hunted.

Xcountry brings all these charts and tries to prove his point but dismisses all that really matters. Which is simply making sure of HIS abilitys, having the best optics available to him and carrying enough fire power to put the animal down with one shot and avoid wounding and losing the animal after he shoots it.

Everything else is BS!

I agree with you 100% on all you said.

As usual this kind of thing (like 9 vs 40 vs 45) starts out amusing at first llstening to all the bias and ego but degrades into anger and pejorative statements pretty quickly because egos get wrapped up in the tech and positions.

[advocatusdiaboli]

Originally Posted by elx144

You're comparing an operating system to a text editor.

Some poeple consider that bloated OS built on top of UNIX called EMACS a text editor. I think using it is an unnatural act the might be illegal in some states. But then I use a real man's OS even on my desktop.

[MrPlink]

Just go 308, it "kills things deader"

[toby]

So should I scrap my 6.5-06 Ackley build on a bolt gun and go the AR route?

[Don@Tahoe]

Originally Posted by toby

So should I scrap my 6.5-06 Ackley build on a bolt gun and go the AR route?

Absolutely scrap it, get rid of it asap, I'll send you a check with my FFL's number!

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by toby

So should I scrap my 6.5-06 Ackley build on a bolt gun and go the AR route?

Where do you order ammo for that?

Do you reload?

[Don@Tahoe]

.264-06, that's a great round, would love to have that rifle, I have a 6.5 x 55, have no idea how many deer I've taken with it.

[toby]

Originally Posted by taperxz

Where do you order ammo for that?

Do you reload?

It's strictly a hand load deal tho I'm sure someone like A Square could make them.

[taperxz]

Hopefully one of theses days I will kill a deer.

[Xcountryrider]

[thechozenone]

Originally Posted by Xcountryrider

I didn't say the short stubby 6.8 didn't tumble just that it does not have the same effect as a long round. The 6.5 puts a slightly smaller hole in the skin but does more damage on the inside where it counts.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

Hey buddy...take a look at the chart at 1:14....it shows you what everyone else is saying....its all about bullet construction and energy transfer that does damage...not BC...

to me honest...I don't see that 6.5G bullet fully expanding or expanding enough to transfer its energy to the gel....heck based on BrassFletchers data...the 223 almost caught it on bare gelatin in terms of energy transfer...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BROdbEm5wqA

[advocatusdiaboli]

I put some stock in what Chuck Hawk says. He's weighed in on both rounds. to paraphrase him a bit without treading on his copyrights...If anyone wants to full scoop—and he gives it—join his site. It's a wealth of information.

People are comparing the 6.5mm Grendel cartridge to the 6.8mm Rem. SPC cartridge. ...the 6.8mm SPC...for ... specific combat needs. ...has also proven to be a very accurate cartridge. ...similar to the trajectory of the .308 with a 150 grain bullet...

The 6.5mm Grendel was designed ...for long range precision shooting with AR15 type rifles. ... basically a match cartridge, not a combat cartridge...

I figure that the two cartridges are probably pretty equal in terms of intrinsic accuracy, and that it is the individual shooter who makes the difference.

He goes on to say that both use light bullets suffering in sectional density compared to other 6.5 mm cartridges (like the .270), limiting hunting use. He also, as Randall did. faults the actions limits in pressure support and powder volume.

Cartridges of this class are indeed adequate for taking most CXP2 class game, such as European and North American deer. Shooters should welcome any new cartridge that combines adequate trajectory, killing power, and accuracy with low recoil.

Adequate is damning with faint praise in my book. But then again, since the action is limiting, you do what you can. He seems to prefer the 6.8 SPC ("The 6.8mm SPC has the advantage of being offered by a major ammunition manufacturer with national and international distribution. It also drives its .277" bullets to somewhat higher velocity."), but thinks you'd have to hand load heavier bullets in the 120-140 grain range to make it an adequate hunting cartridge.

[gun toting monkeyboy]

I'll see your lame picture of somebody else hunting, and raise you one of me hunting, with a 6.8. 200 pounds, and it was charging my daughter when I shot it at 40 yards. Unless you can post one of you hunting something with your 6.5, it is time for your mom to kick you off the net for a while. You are getting a bit pastey down there in the basement, and you really should go outside and play with the other kids now.

I like 6.8 for hunting thin-skinned medium game simply because it is a reasonably effective, low recoil round that a kid can use. It is still an intermediate round, and should not be considered to be a replacement for a full-powered hunting cartridge most of the time.

-Mb (who loves it when trolls say they are "done" with a page because it means they are still reading it, but can't post without everybody knowing they are still reading)

[advocatusdiaboli]

Originally Posted by gun toting monkeyboy

I'll see your lame picture of somebody else hunting, and raise you one of me hunting, with a 6.8. 200 pounds, and it was charging my daughter when I shot it at 40 yards. Unless you can post one of you hunting something with your 6.5, it is time for your mom to kick you off the net for a while. You are getting a bit pastey down there in the basement, and you really should go outside and play with the other kids now.

I like 6.8 for hunting thin-skinned medium game simply because it is a reasonably effective, low recoil round that a kid can use. It is still an intermediate round, and should not be considered to be a replacement for a full-powered hunting cartridge most of the time.

-Mb (who loves it when trolls say they are "done" with a page because it means they are still reading it, but can't post without everybody knowing they are still reading)

Nice and what you said is nearly what Chuck Hawks thought about 6.8 SPC. In fact, he thinks the military should make that round their standard instead of 5.56. When I get the funds, I'm defintely getting a 6.8 SPC upper for on of my OLLs. That's one upper decided and one to go...

[russ69]

Originally Posted by gun toting monkeyboy

...I like 6.8 for hunting thin-skinned medium game simply because it is a reasonably effective, low recoil round that a kid can use...

The 6.8 SPC is a sweet little round in an AR-15 or Mini-14. In my Contender pistol, it's a little more snappy but still fun to shoot. Great picture by the way.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by russ69

The 6.8 SPC is a sweet little round in an AR-15 or Mini-14. In my Contender pistol, it's a little more snappy but still fun to shoot. Great picture by the way.

If you want to shoot the 6.8 SPC Rimmed, I can cut a rim in your contender barrel.
Then you just form the brass from 30-30 brass in standard 6.8SPC dies.

[russ69]

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

If you want to shoot the 6.8 SPC Rimmed, I can cut a rim in your contender barrel.
Then you just form the brass from 30-30 brass in standard 6.8SPC dies.

Thanks Randall,

Yeah, rimmed cartridges with Contenders are the way to go. I don't shoot my 6.8 SPC all that much, I like my 32-20 with a 308 bullet better, it's a little less abusive and groups better at 100 yards. Thanks for the tip.

[MapleSyrupSmuggler]

Everyone just shut up and go hunt some hogs! Who cares what you use (as long as it is legal)!

[Xcountryrider]

This conversation has been moved to the CALGUNS Facebook page. When people are forced to use real identities theirs less chance of jackassery. To much trolling and overreacting emotional silliness on here. Your welcome to join the conversation on that side.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/26740744435/

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by Xcountryrider

This conversation has been moved to the CALGUNS Facebook page. When people are forced to use real identities theirs less chance of jackassery.

Jackassery such as being banned from a whole subforum?

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by Xcountryrider

This conversation has been moved to the CALGUNS Facebook page. When people are forced to use real identities theirs less chance of jackassery. To much trolling and overreacting emotional silliness on here. Your welcome to join the conversation on that side.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/26740744435/

Wanna see how fast that can get deleted?

Craig?

[taperxz]

I have a dual sport adventure bike that i use for all around riding. Not that great at anyone thing but can do everything i want to do reasonably well. I think the 6.8SPC is kind of like that for people. That said i prefer the Grendel.

So now you are reducing your scientific charts to comparing ammo with a dual sport bike?


I guess now we can compare your "ammo" to a volkswagen. They can pretty much do everything including off road but in the end there are much better vehicles to choose from.

I guess you just blow your own argument about everything you have ever said in the last 3 months. LOL

[taperxz]

Blah. Facebook. LOL your conversation will die there. Does anyone really use that FB thing any more?

[vliberatore]

Originally Posted by Xcountryrider

This conversation has been moved to the CALGUNS Facebook page. When people are forced to use real identities theirs less chance of jackassery. To much trolling and overreacting emotional silliness on here. Your welcome to join the conversation on that side.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/26740744435/

Umm...about that. Want to guess what my username is?

[vliberatore]

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

Jackassery such as being banned from a whole subforum?

He didn't do that, trolls made that happen

[toby]

Chuck Hawks......

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by vliberatore

He didn't do that, trolls made that happen

Is there some irony there?

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

Is there some irony there?

YES! the OP would say that the trolls made it happen.

[taperxz]

update:

XCROUNTRYRIDER; I want to do one of these comparisons of Remington 30AR and 308. Might be interesting. I think the Remington 30AR is under rated.

[penguinofsleep]

OP - just curious - what is your highest level of education with regards to ballistics, aerodynamics, or similar topics? or even say just classical physics?

mine is not particularly high, but i do know that both cartridges are in the same ballpark and the difference probably isn't as big as you imagine. i.e. 6.5grendel vs 6.8spc it isn't 22lr vs 50bmg or even say 204 vs 375. but now you are calling us all trolls b/c we don't agree with this picture or idea you have painted in your head based on that 1 thing you heard that first time you saw a comparison? or b/c you are eating a bunch of marketing w/o an actual understanding of the physical principles dictating the numbers (granted, im sure hornady knows what they are talking about more than i do, but it's still mostly marketing you're eating).

so yes, continue your attitude, go on facebook and continue to help the shooting community look like stubborn, ignorant, and argumentative bottom feeders. or calm down, think for a second, and then continue the discussion.

[Metal God]

just sent Email to Hornady asking about there H.I.T.S scoring and how they give a bigger hit score to a smaller bullet with less energy in FT.LBS then a bullet with higher everything across the board - velocity , diameter , energy . I will post there reply

[Xcountryrider]

Originally Posted by penguinofsleep

OP - just curious - what is your highest level of education with regards to ballistics, aerodynamics, or similar topics? or even say just classical physics?

mine is not particularly high, but i do know that both cartridges are in the same ballpark and the difference probably isn't as big as you imagine. i.e. 6.5grendel vs 6.8spc it isn't 22lr vs 50bmg or even say 204 vs 375. but now you are calling us all trolls b/c we don't agree with this picture or idea you have painted in your head based on that 1 thing you heard that first time you saw a comparison? or b/c you are eating a bunch of marketing w/o an actual understanding of the physical principles dictating the numbers (granted, im sure hornady knows what they are talking about more than i do, but it's still mostly marketing you're eating).

so yes, continue your attitude, go on facebook and continue to help the shooting community look like stubborn, ignorant, and argumentative bottom feeders. or calm down, think for a second, and then continue the discussion.

Hey bud not calling YOU a troll i have in depth experience with a few trolls that jumped on the thread with no interest in the topic other than to shut down the topic and cause hate. Instead of trying to have a civil discussion that would now be impossible with them injecting constant insults i decided to move the topic to facebook where the discussion with be more mature.

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by Xcountryrider

Hey bud not calling YOU a troll i have in depth experience with a few trolls that jumped on the thread with no interest in the topic other than to shut down the topic and cause hate. Instead of trying to have a civil discuss that would now been impossible with them injecting constant insults i decided to move the topic to facebook where the discussion with be more mature.

I don't see how when you as the OP refuses to take constructive advice from others that know. Your ability to have the conversation is the problem. Seriously!