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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #1  
Old 05-27-2020, 5:55 AM
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Default Ammunition recommendations for first rifle .30-06

Should be picking my first rifle up in a little over a week. Got it to be used as a hunting rifle. Rifle has a Leupold VX-3i 3.5-10x40 scope on it. No aspirations to shoot the thing 1,0000 yards and do anything crazy. Just want to be proficient at handling and shooting it and eventually use it for deer and possibly wild pigs. I doubt I'll even ever shoot anything further than 100 yards with this gun for many, many years.

With all that in mind, any recommendations on a readily available, easy to find in most places ammunition to start with? Seems like 165 gr. is a good place to start and good all-around bullet weight, I just have no idea what brands to start with. I realize every rifle is different you have to just go through the trial and error period, but if there are a few go-to brands/type to start with that would get me in the ballpark it would be greatly appreciated. Figure I'll pick up a few boxes of various ammo and then head out to the range to zero in the rifle and see what performs best.
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Old 05-27-2020, 6:06 AM
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Must have copper in CA. TTSX 150 grain Barnes. Keep the speed.
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Old 05-27-2020, 6:32 AM
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@AGGRO already mentioned the Barnes TTSX, and the original TSX would also be just fine. The Hornady GMX is another good "California-legal" bullet. You can go with the 150 grain and be just fine within 500 yards and thus also (of course) at 100 yards. It'll also keep your felt recoil down somewhat over the heavier bullets.

Sellier & Bellot make a 180gr lead-free 30-06 load. Winchester also make several lead-free lines (E-tip, etc.). Remington likewise do; matter of fact, they use Barnes bullets for their loads.

Here's the link of all "Sacramento-certified" ammunition legal for use in CA. Not all manufacturers make .30-06, though generally the bigger names do.

https://wildlife.ca.gov/Hunting/Nonl...tion/Certified

When you do eventually finish your degree and move elsewhere (I notice you mentioned those plans in another thread), then you will have a lot more choices. There's nothing wrong at all with some good ol' fashioned 150-gr FMJ loads for target practice and continuing to get to know the rifle. For hunting, the 150gr, 165-168gr, or 175-180gr bullet weights are all excellent for the .30-06. But that's down the road.
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Old 05-27-2020, 6:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy T View Post
@AGGRO already mentioned the Barnes TTSX, and the original TSX would also be just fine. The Hornady GMX is another good "California-legal" bullet. You can go with the 150 grain and be just fine within 500 yards and thus also (of course) at 100 yards. It'll also keep your felt recoil down somewhat over the heavier bullets.

Sellier & Bellot make a 180gr lead-free 30-06 load. Winchester also make several lead-free lines (E-tip, etc.). Remington likewise do; matter of fact, they use Barnes bullets for their loads.

Here's the link of all "Sacramento-certified" ammunition legal for use in CA. Not all manufacturers make .30-06, though generally the bigger names do.

https://wildlife.ca.gov/Hunting/Nonl...tion/Certified

When you do eventually finish your degree and move elsewhere (I notice you mentioned those plans in another thread), then you will have a lot more choices. There's nothing wrong at all with some good ol' fashioned 150-gr FMJ loads for target practice and continuing to get to know the rifle. For hunting, the 150gr, 165-168gr, or 175-180gr bullet weights are all excellent for the .30-06. But that's down the road.
Thank you!
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Old 05-27-2020, 6:58 AM
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The 165 GMX shoots very nicely for me in 308 and 30-06 too.

But I wouldn’t start shooting any of the all copper options to begin with, it’s just expensive ammo. Get some standard lead jacket bullet loaded stuff and figure out the gun and you together first.

Get 1 box of each all copper option you want to try, when you see it on a shelf, but save it for once you’re comfortable with the gun and do some accuracy checks with specific bullet and range for hunting prep later.


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Old 05-27-2020, 7:06 AM
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Vinnie,
Get some cheaper range ammunition for getting sighting in to hit the paper and to practice.

You will find that some loads work better with your gun than others. Some loads will group tighter than others

I just tried 3 types of factory copper 30-06 yesterday.
Remington Hog Hammer 168gr
Barnes 150 gr. VorTx
Federal Premium

I recorded on a spare target at the bench where each shot landed and then how large the group was. Unexpectedly, the 168 gr. Remington Hog Hammer grouped much tighter than the other copper loads. In lead, the same rifle loved 150 grain federal premium.

Best.
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Old 05-27-2020, 7:16 AM
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Originally Posted by lordmorgul View Post
The 165 GMX shoots very nicely for me in 308 and 30-06 too.

But I wouldn’t start shooting any of the all copper options to begin with, it’s just expensive ammo. Get some standard lead jacket bullet loaded stuff and figure out the gun and you together first.

Get 1 box of each all copper option you want to try, when you see it on a shelf, but save it for once you’re comfortable with the gun and do some accuracy checks with specific bullet and range for hunting prep later.


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Is it still legal to use lead ammo at shooting ranges, as long as it's not for hunting?
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Old 05-27-2020, 7:36 AM
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Is it still legal to use lead ammo at shooting ranges, as long as it's not for hunting?

Yes.


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Old 05-27-2020, 7:36 AM
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Yes
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Old 05-27-2020, 7:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinnie Boombatz View Post
With all that in mind, any recommendations on a readily available, easy to find in most places ammunition to start with?
For hunting in California, I'd stick with 150 grain cartridges topped with Hornady GMX or Barnes TTSX bullets on the basis that a copper bullet of a given weight is about as effective as a lead bullet that's roughly 20-25% heavier. Copper is a bit less dense but tougher than lead so it tends to stay together better.

For practice, I used to use Wolf steel-cased ammo with 150 grain tips. Remington Core-Lokts seem to shoot well out of my rifle and they won't break the bank.

It is likely the zero for copper bullets will be significantly different from the zero using lead bullets so do not assume you can set zero for practice ammo and then go hunting with a different type of ammo without a range visit. My hand loads using 150 grain GMX shoot about 3 inches higher at 100 yards than the Core-Lokts or hand loads using Hornady's other 150 grain lead bullets.

In either case, I suggest you your "zero" to be 1.5-2" high at 100 yards so that you can put the crosshairs on the critter's sweet spot and kill it at up to 200 yards. Practice using the kinds of rests you'll find in the field because there are typically no benches out there.
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Old 05-27-2020, 8:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinnie Boombatz View Post
Should be picking my first rifle up in a little over a week. Got it to be used as a hunting rifle. Rifle has a Leupold VX-3i 3.5-10x40 scope on it. No aspirations to shoot the thing 1,0000 yards and do anything crazy. Just want to be proficient at handling and shooting it and eventually use it for deer and possibly wild pigs. I doubt I'll even ever shoot anything further than 100 yards with this gun for many, many years.

With all that in mind, any recommendations on a readily available, easy to find in most places ammunition to start with? Seems like 165 gr. is a good place to start and good all-around bullet weight, I just have no idea what brands to start with. I realize every rifle is different you have to just go through the trial and error period, but if there are a few go-to brands/type to start with that would get me in the ballpark it would be greatly appreciated. Figure I'll pick up a few boxes of various ammo and then head out to the range to zero in the rifle and see what performs best.
Marksmanship training - should take up the bulk of your shooting.

For that, PPU 150 gr. ball or 165 gr. SP is what I use.


For hunting, have Remington ammo loaded w/ Barnes 168 gr. TSX, and the Federal 165 gr. TSX load is just as good.




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Old 05-27-2020, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinnie Boombatz View Post
Should be picking my first rifle up in a little over a week. Got it to be used as a hunting rifle. Rifle has a Leupold VX-3i 3.5-10x40 scope on it. No aspirations to shoot the thing 1,0000 yards and do anything crazy. Just want to be proficient at handling and shooting it and eventually use it for deer and possibly wild pigs. I doubt I'll even ever shoot anything further than 100 yards with this gun for many, many years.

With all that in mind, any recommendations on a readily available, easy to find in most places ammunition to start with? Seems like 165 gr. is a good place to start and good all-around bullet weight, I just have no idea what brands to start with. I realize every rifle is different you have to just go through the trial and error period, but if there are a few go-to brands/type to start with that would get me in the ballpark it would be greatly appreciated. Figure I'll pick up a few boxes of various ammo and then head out to the range to zero in the rifle and see what performs best.
It sounds like you got a nice set up.

30-06 ammo is very easy to come by in California, and there are all sorts of choices. My long-term favorite is Remington Core-Lokt in 150 grains. That round is inexpensive, feeds perfectly, is consistent, and accurate. The problem is that round can't be used for hunting in California any more due to the lead free requriements.

The Barnes lead free rounds are pretty easy to come by, but my Rem 700 does not seem to like them, and the pattern spreads out quite a bit at 100 yards. Still about 1-2 minutes of hog, so good enough. These rounds are expensive, about $35-$40 per 20 Vs $18 for the Core-Lokt.

Federal has a couple levels of lead free...I have not fired mine yet, so I can say how they compare.

I've had my best luck with 150 and 165 grain rounds, but have shot 180 grain too. The different weight rounds hit the target at different spots, so you need to pick one and get sighted in for it and stick with it. I've decided to make my 30-06 set up for 150/165, and it's done the job in that configuration. If game calls for heavier rounds, I'll bring along the .300 WinMag.
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Old 05-27-2020, 10:45 AM
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Excellent scope and use Barnes 150gr TTSX bullets or factory ammo. If you hand load the 130gr TTSX is also excellent. These would be for hunting in Calif.
If hunting out of state they will also be fine but I prefer 150gr Nosler Partition.
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Old 05-27-2020, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepergeo View Post
It sounds like you got a nice set up.

30-06 ammo is very easy to come by in California, and there are all sorts of choices. My long-term favorite is Remington Core-Lokt in 150 grains. That round is inexpensive, feeds perfectly, is consistent, and accurate. The problem is that round can't be used for hunting in California any more due to the lead free requriements.

The Barnes lead free rounds are pretty easy to come by, but my Rem 700 does not seem to like them, and the pattern spreads out quite a bit at 100 yards. Still about 1-2 minutes of hog, so good enough. These rounds are expensive, about $35-$40 per 20 Vs $18 for the Core-Lokt.

Federal has a couple levels of lead free...I have not fired mine yet, so I can say how they compare.

I've had my best luck with 150 and 165 grain rounds, but have shot 180 grain too. The different weight rounds hit the target at different spots, so you need to pick one and get sighted in for it and stick with it. I've decided to make my 30-06 set up for 150/165, and it's done the job in that configuration. If game calls for heavier rounds, I'll bring along the .300 WinMag.
Like your Remington my Winchester Mod. 70 30-06 does not like the factory Barns 180 gr loads at all. I tested 5 different factory loads in my Winchester 70 and none of them came close to my hand loads. They all make 1 1/2 inch to 2 1/2 inch 5 shot groups, your correct they will all hunt out to 100 yards.
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Old 05-27-2020, 11:38 AM
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I actually just did a funny little sight in experiment last weekend. Please note this will be very dependent on your rifle.

I was zeroing in a mossberg patriot in .30-06 last weekend, it has a 1:10 twist. I had some ammo it already liked that wasn’t copper solids. It was federal fusion 150 grain. This isn’t super cheap hunting ammo but the gun likes it and it’s about $21 a box. I wanted 150 grain lead free but due to availability locally I went with federal premium loaded with Barnes 165 grain copper bullets. At 100 yards I shot 3 of each, and all six rounds were in a nice tight group, albeit pretty far high and right as I’d just put a new scope on. So I used the fusion to zero the rifle with about 9 more shots, then cleaned the bore and verified it was still zeroed with 4 rounds of the premium with the longer Barnes bullet. For me, I will buy more of both of these brands since they appear to perform identically in my rifle at 100 yards, and do this again in the future when needed.
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Old 05-27-2020, 12:06 PM
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I actually just did a funny little sight in experiment last weekend. Please note this will be very dependent on your rifle.

I was zeroing in a mossberg patriot in .30-06 last weekend, it has a 1:10 twist. I had some ammo it already liked that wasn’t copper solids. It was federal fusion 150 grain. This isn’t super cheap hunting ammo but the gun likes it and it’s about $21 a box. I wanted 150 grain lead free but due to availability locally I went with federal premium loaded with Barnes 165 grain copper bullets. At 100 yards I shot 3 of each, and all six rounds were in a nice tight group, albeit pretty far high and right as I’d just put a new scope on. So I used the fusion to zero the rifle with about 9 more shots, then cleaned the bore and verified it was still zeroed with 4 rounds of the premium with the longer Barnes bullet. For me, I will buy more of both of these brands since they appear to perform identically in my rifle at 100 yards, and do this again in the future when needed.
This brings up a good point - you found an inexpensive round to suffice for your hunting round sight-in.

For Marksmanship training - precise ammo is not required.

As one works on field shooting, the center of an 8-12" group will tell you how you are doing, if that ammo shoots 4-6" groups off a 100 yard bench.

Several hundreds of rounds later, when solid positions and holds, breathing and trigger control, and sight alignment and range estimate and correction produces good results - better ammo can be sought for precision shooting.




GR
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Old 05-27-2020, 12:46 PM
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Precise ammo is not required. But you do want to understand what kind of accuracy to expect.

I would expect ball ammo to shoot in the 1-2moa range out of a hunting rifle.

I recommended an Appleseed shoot earlier. It is a different type of shooting, but does highlight NPOA, breathing, cheekweld and use of a sling for more than carrying a rifle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garandimal View Post
This brings up a good point - you found an inexpensive round to suffice for your hunting round sight-in.

For Marksmanship training - precise ammo is not required.

As one works on field shooting, the center of an 8-12" group will tell you how you are doing, if that ammo shoots 4-6" groups off a 100 yard bench.

Several hundreds of rounds later, when solid positions and holds, breathing and trigger control, and sight alignment and range estimate and correction produces good results - better ammo can be sought for precision shooting.

GR
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Old 05-27-2020, 3:50 PM
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Excellent scope and use Barnes 150gr TTSX bullets or factory ammo. If you hand load the 130gr TTSX is also excellent. These would be for hunting in Calif.
If hunting out of state they will also be fine but I prefer 180gr Nosler Partition.
Fixed it for you. ��

And congratulations to the op for getting your first 06. I tell my sons, want one rifle for about all Big Game in North America, 30-06 would be my choice.

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Old 05-27-2020, 3:55 PM
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... Practice using the kinds of rests you'll find in the field because there are typically no benches out there.
Or carry shooting sticks, modern ones fold and are really light. Practice at the range with them.
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Old 05-27-2020, 4:03 PM
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Greek Surplus HXP, PPU, and Wolf are all good plinking ammo for the .3006. I have M1s so I just use the same ammo for all my .3006 rifles.

https://www.targetsportsusa.com/prvi...an-p-3573.aspx
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Old 05-27-2020, 4:21 PM
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The best accuracy with non-lead bullets in my guns has been with the Barnes TSX and TTSX bullets and the Cutting Edge Raptor bullets. Mine have all been handloads built for my guns though.

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Old 05-27-2020, 5:00 PM
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1recluse---No you do not know what you are talking about. A 150gr PARTITION will take whatever you will be shooting. If you want better use a 150gr Sirocco or 165gr A-Frame since they do not make a 150gr A-Frame.
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Old 05-27-2020, 5:11 PM
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Thanks for the replies everyone.

I'm signed up for a shotgun class, then repeating the defensive handgun class that was cancelled half-way through in March due to the virus.right after that at Front Sight in October.

I'm half tempted to cancel the shotgun class and take a rifle class, but man, the shotgun class seems like it would be way more fun.
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Old 05-27-2020, 5:19 PM
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Take both when you get a chance. I took a shotgun class because of timing, even though I was more interested in getting better at shooting rifles. Turns out I ended up enjoying shotguns more (although rifles are still plenty of fun), you never know.
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Old 05-27-2020, 6:54 PM
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Or carry shooting sticks, modern ones fold and are really light. Practice at the range with them.
I should have been more specific.

I have sticks and I also have a tripod. The sticks are better when the ground cove is low enough to shoot sitting. With the tripod you can shoot sitting, kneeling or standing and it's best in tall grass (Africa).
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Old 05-27-2020, 8:52 PM
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Is it still legal to use lead ammo at shooting ranges, as long as it's not for hunting?

Currently. But there is a pending law AB3071.


AB 3071, sponsored by Assembly Member Kevin Mullin (D-22), prohibits the use of ammunition that has not been certified as lead free at sport shooting ranges and indoor ranges. It also prohibits shooting ranges from selling or giving away ammunition that has not been certified as lead free and requires signage that lead ammunition is prohibited for use at the facilities.


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Old 05-27-2020, 9:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinnie Boombatz View Post
Should be picking my first rifle up in a little over a week. Got it to be used as a hunting rifle. Rifle has a Leupold VX-3i 3.5-10x40 scope on it. No aspirations to shoot the thing 1,0000 yards and do anything crazy. Just want to be proficient at handling and shooting it and eventually use it for deer and possibly wild pigs. I doubt I'll even ever shoot anything further than 100 yards with this gun for many, many years.

With all that in mind, any recommendations on a readily available, easy to find in most places ammunition to start with? Seems like 165 gr. is a good place to start and good all-around bullet weight, I just have no idea what brands to start with. I realize every rifle is different you have to just go through the trial and error period, but if there are a few go-to brands/type to start with that would get me in the ballpark it would be greatly appreciated. Figure I'll pick up a few boxes of various ammo and then head out to the range to zero in the rifle and see what performs best.
For range practice, some 150gr FMJ would be fine.
Since you will be re-zeroing with lead-free ammo before you hunt and your self imposed limit of 100yds, there's no big need to be practicing with lead-free ammo.
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  #28  
Old 05-28-2020, 8:50 AM
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W.R.Buchanan W.R.Buchanan is offline
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Scott: Shooting a Bolt Action .30-06 with factory ammo in a class at FS ain't that much fun. Just do the shotgun class.

There is little to be learned shooting a Bolt Action Rifle in a Class at FS, and things you would learn that are covered in the Shotgun Class also apply to rifles. (Mounting the gun, and general gun handling crosses over nicely.) The Rifle Classes are more geared to Semi Auto Carbines than Manually Operated Rifles. I have seen guys with bolt guns in my classes but it gets pretty expensive shooting several hundred rounds a day with factory .30-06 ammo which is $1+ a shot. Shotshells are $. 22 cents a round. Also you'd be leaving alot of Premium Brass laying on the ground which is a crying shame, and you'd want to keep that for when you start Reloading, but they won't let you pick it up.

You aren't going to be doing "Controlled Pairs" in the real world with a .30-06 Bolt Gun. One shot from a .30-06 center mass will kill anyone. That's why they invented it. It's kind of like a 12 ga. slug in that regard!

Your gun handling for a bolt gun can be sussed out pretty well with a Dry Practice Manual, just like you did with the shotgun..

As far as ammo is concerned try to find some Surplus M2 Ball ammo to get acquainted with the gun. Then a box of some premium lead free ammo for hunting. 150 gr is all you need for deer or pigs here in CA.

Not saying you can't use the gun for a rifle class, it just won't be that much fun. You are really going to need a decent .223 Carbine for that. Lots of choices there and we can go into that when you want to go down that road.

Randy
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Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 05-28-2020 at 8:55 AM..
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Old 05-28-2020, 9:47 AM
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I'd find some decent FMJ to learn a little about how it shoots.
If you're serious about learning, make the investment in yourself and look into Gunsite's 270 general rifle class. You will learn all about gun handling, marksmanship, and how to really run your rifle. By the end of the week, you will be making first-round hits at various distances, and from field positions well suited to hunting. For a typical week the whole round count is less than 1K. Yes, you can keep your brass. Sometimes other students will offer it as well, IME. Believe me, after that you will be addicted, and can go from there.
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Old 05-28-2020, 9:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
For range practice, some 150gr FMJ would be fine.
Since you will be re-zeroing with lead-free ammo before you hunt and your self imposed limit of 100yds, there's no big need to be practicing with lead-free ammo.
Exactly.
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Old 05-28-2020, 11:10 AM
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I'm like a broken record, but...
I recommended an Appleseed shoot earlier. It is a different type of shooting than hunting, but does highlight NPOA(natural point of aim), breathing, cheekweld and use of a sling for more than carrying a rifle. It's relatively inexpensive, and is offered in multiple NorCal venues. Look at the Appleseed forum here at CalGuns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinnie Boombatz View Post
Thanks for the replies everyone.

I'm signed up for a shotgun class, then repeating the defensive handgun class that was cancelled half-way through in March due to the virus.right after that at Front Sight in October.

I'm half tempted to cancel the shotgun class and take a rifle class, but man, the shotgun class seems like it would be way more fun.
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Old 05-28-2020, 11:11 AM
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I am 53 and have been hunting/shooting since I was 12. Did not shoot 30-06 much until I was 27 years old so for about the last 26 years I have shot a lot of 30-06. Three different rifles one Winchester model 70sporter built 1953, one older Remington 760, and one new Model 70 Super Grade built in 2016. You are right, you must find what guns like, but I will tell you a few bullets and factory loads that have shot well in almost all of my guns. I have not shot copper out of my 30-06s but if you plan on Hunting CA for big game then I would suggest stay with those and shoot what is most accurate at all times even when you practice field position shooting at the range,(not just bench shooting)
As far as lead factory loads(I do not reload) go the most accurate in all my rifles are Fusion 165 grain, Fiocchi 165 grain Game King HP, Federal Powershok Blue Box 150 grain, and Winchester power point 150 grain. I tested all off bench then shot all in field positions, all are capable of 1 inch or better groups but the fusion was probably best(sub inch) with Game king HP very close, blue box federal and Winchester power points maybe a tad larger.
The Fiochi although the game king HP is probably the toughest bullet on the list, I liked the availability and price of the fusion. Killed a couple Elk with the fusion and powershok, and countless deer and a few big wild pigs with power point and powershok over the years. Since powershok is generally cheapest and easy to find, it is what I keep now and plan to use exclusively from here out.
I have shot copper out of a .243 hunting coyotes in CA and I can second the opinion of others that the tsx was an accurate bullet for me.
Also you mentioned starting with 165 grainers. Let me say do not get hung up 150 grain for deer but heavier for bigger game crowd. The 150 grain soft points will kill any elk , deer or hog as quickly and humanely as any other weight under 300 yards in my experience. I have killed a couple big boars with caked on dirt ,a lot of hair and the thick cartilage plate protecting the vitals and through ribs with 150 grain soft points no problem. 150 or up with whatever you shoot well. RNE228 has good advice, learn to use at a minimum a hasty sling hold when you shoot, I did not learn this until I was in my thirties and it really helps in field accuracy.

Last edited by theduracellbigd; 05-28-2020 at 11:25 AM..
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Old 05-28-2020, 3:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackEllis View Post
I should have been more specific.

I have sticks and I also have a tripod. The sticks are better when the ground cove is low enough to shoot sitting. With the tripod you can shoot sitting, kneeling or standing and it's best in tall grass (Africa).
Shooting sticks are usually tripods (at least the ones I use). A number of them have multiple sections so you can shoot sitting if needed to.

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Old 05-30-2020, 3:26 PM
1859sharps 1859sharps is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splithoof View Post
If you're serious about learning, make the investment in yourself and look into Gunsite's 270 general rifle class. You will learn all about gun handling, marksmanship, and how to really run your rifle. By the end of the week, you will be making first-round hits at various distances, and from field positions well suited to hunting. For a typical week the whole round count is less than 1K. Yes, you can keep your brass. Sometimes other students will offer it as well, IME. Believe me, after that you will be addicted, and can go from there.
I was also going to suggest Gunsite 270 course.
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Old 06-24-2020, 8:09 PM
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I generally reload Barnes 150 grain TTSX because it’s very accurate. My favorite factory load is federal premium trophy copper 165 grain. I absolutely poleaxed a couple big out of state deer with it. I also got a moose with the 180 grain trophy copper.
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Old 06-24-2020, 10:31 PM
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Many California Game Animals weren't even born before these new hunting bullet regulations became Law.
So how are these deer, pig, bear and coyote supposed to know that they are supposed to die after being shot
with an obsolete 30-06?
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Old 06-25-2020, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hambam105 View Post
Many California Game Animals weren't even born before these new hunting bullet regulations became Law.
So how are these deer, pig, bear and coyote supposed to know that they are supposed to die after being shot
with an obsolete 30-06?


OK, you got me laughing again--well done!
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