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  #1  
Old 05-26-2020, 7:41 PM
Cool Hand Luke Cool Hand Luke is offline
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Default Gun safe question pertaining to children

I have a rental home my sister lives in. I have a big safe in one of the rooms, that I still have a lot of my guns in.

Her and her husband are trying to take custody of her husbands niece's 1 year old daughter because the niece is a mess and the CPS has taken custody of the child.

So the CPS wants to see what's in my gun safe. I'm not sure why but whatevs. I've removed a few guns and taken them home and stuffed the rest of the safe with the ammo I had laying on top.

Now my sister is telling me that CPS says that the ammo and guns can be in the same safe but that the ammo all has to be in locked containers? I've been out of the loop for a while now. That's not mandatory is it. It's going to be a major PITA to put all that ammo in locked containers. I used to shoot a lot. Every wkd either shooting or hunting so it's like 20 years worth of ammo stash. Ugh.

Advice please
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Old 05-26-2020, 7:46 PM
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Never heard that as a law, but IDK for sure.

Sounds like CPS has their own set of "rules".
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Old 05-26-2020, 8:20 PM
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Tell CPS to provide a code or regulation citation.
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Old 05-26-2020, 8:21 PM
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This is the second time today I seen people believe that ammunition must be stored separately from firearms even if in a safe.

This seems insane. So the gun most be locked in the safe. But having the ammo in a separate box even if locked won't be bolted to the floor.


As for CPS they can do just about anything the like when declaring a place as safe for children. There few stories where owning any gun no matter how stored would have CPS fail the family.
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Old 05-26-2020, 8:36 PM
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CPS has their own set of rules. Like in some counties, you cannot have tin foil in the house.

Play nice or they won’t play at all. Sucks you may have to move stuff. But if it helps your sister than it’s worth it.


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Old 05-26-2020, 9:02 PM
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Dibs on your ammo
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Old 05-26-2020, 11:09 PM
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CPS has their own rules/policies on deeming what is a safe enviroment for a child.

Some of these rules/policies may go above and beyond what the minimum legal requirements are for firearm and ammunition storage.
^Violating those rules/policies would not bring legal charges, but can be used as grounds for removal of a child.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post
I have a rental home my sister lives in. I have a big safe in one of the rooms, that I still have a lot of my guns in.
FYI.

CA laws changed on 01-01-2020.

It only legal to store unloaded firearms in a locked container/safe, that only you have access to, at another person's residence for less than 120 days. [PC 27883]

If the firearms are being stored for more than 120 days, then they need to be transferred (4473/DROS/10 day wait) through a CA FFL dealer to the person storing the firearms. [PC 27545]
^Failure to transfer them through a CA FFL dealer, is considered an illegal transfer (you to person storing firearms).



Penal Code 27545
Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer’s license issued pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive, the parties to the transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that firearm through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 28050).

Penal Code 27883
Section 27545 does not apply to the loan of a firearm provided all of the following requirements are met:
(a) The firearm being loaned is registered to the person making the loan pursuant to Section 11106.
(b) The firearm being loaned is stored in the receiver’s place of residence or in an enclosed structure on the receiver’s private property, which is not zoned for commercial, retail, or industrial activity.
(c) The firearm at all times stays within the receiver’s place of residence or in an enclosed structure on the receiver’s private property, which is not zoned for commercial, retail, or industrial activity.
(d) The individual receiving the firearm is not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm.
(e) The individual receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older.
(f) One of the following applies:
(1) The firearm is maintained within a locked container.
(2) The firearm is disabled by a firearm safety device.
(3) The firearm is maintained within a locked gun safe.
(4) The firearm is locked with a locking device, as defined in Section 16860, which has rendered the firearm inoperable.
(g) The loan does not exceed 120 days in duration.
(h) The loan is made without consideration.
(i) There is a written document in a format prescribed by the Department of Justice that explains the obligations imposed by this section that is signed by both the party loaning the firearm for storage and the person receiving the firearm.
(j) Both parties to the loan have signed copies of the written document required by subdivision (i).
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Last edited by Quiet; 05-26-2020 at 11:19 PM..
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Old 05-27-2020, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epaphroditus View Post
Tell CPS to provide a code or regulation citation.
Don't do this. While there may be no legal requirement to have ammunition in a locked container, CPS has many "rules" which are not specifically codified. At least before you go this route speak to an attorney and don't take internet advice.
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Old 05-27-2020, 7:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCHavasu View Post
Don't do this. While there may be no legal requirement to have ammunition in a locked container, CPS has many "rules" which are not specifically codified. At least before you go this route speak to an attorney and don't take internet advice.
Yeah. I'm going to play nice. I don't want screw things up for my sister. I'm not sure why they want to take on a baby that's not theirs but that's a whole 'nother issue. Hopefully CPS doesn't call the cops when they see well in excess of 10,000 rounds of centerfire and shotgun ammo.

Just bought 10 locking storage containers at HD that I'm going to put in a locked closet for the ammo. I don't have room for all that stuff where I'm at now. PITA I tell ya...
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Old 05-27-2020, 7:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
It only legal to store unloaded firearms in a locked container/safe, that only you have access to, at another person's residence for less than 120 days. [PC 27883]



If the firearms are being stored for more than 120 days, then they need to be transferred (4473/DROS/10 day wait) through a CA FFL dealer to the person storing the firearms. [PC 27545]
^Failure to transfer them through a CA FFL dealer, is considered an illegal transfer (you to person storing firearms).



Penal Code 27545
Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer’s license issued pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive, the parties to the transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that firearm through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 28050).

Penal Code 27883
Section 27545 does not apply to the loan of a firearm provided all of the following requirements are met:
So my question is can one store a firearm in a commecial storage facility for more than 120 days without a selling it to them, without transferring the firearm to them, without selling it to them and without loaning it to them and without violation of pc 27883 and 27545 for both you or them when a licensed firearm dealer isn’t involved? If so, what is the difference between that and a friend?
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Old 05-27-2020, 7:59 AM
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His house, his safe, his guns, his storage, his access. Where is the transfer?
PC 27883 talks about "loan".

Last edited by Jess B. Guy; 05-27-2020 at 8:03 AM.. Reason: PC
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  #12  
Old 05-27-2020, 8:28 AM
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The CPS is worst than the DMV. They hate guns in the house and will make a major point in the process. Even if your job requires you to be armed they make you jump thru hoops. For your sister you should remove all your guns and ammo to your house until it is final.
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Old 05-27-2020, 8:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
CPS has their own rules/policies on deeming what is a safe enviroment for a child.

Some of these rules/policies may go above and beyond what the minimum legal requirements are for firearm and ammunition storage.
^Violating those rules/policies would not bring legal charges, but can be used as grounds for removal of a child.





FYI.

CA laws changed on 01-01-2020.

It only legal to store unloaded firearms in a locked container/safe, that only you have access to, at another person's residence for less than 120 days. [PC 27883]

If the firearms are being stored for more than 120 days, then they need to be transferred (4473/DROS/10 day wait) through a CA FFL dealer to the person storing the firearms. [PC 27545]
^Failure to transfer them through a CA FFL dealer, is considered an illegal transfer (you to person storing firearms).



Penal Code 27545
Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer’s license issued pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive, the parties to the transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that firearm through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 28050).

Penal Code 27883
Section 27545 does not apply to the loan of a firearm provided all of the following requirements are met:
(a) The firearm being loaned is registered to the person making the loan pursuant to Section 11106.
(b) The firearm being loaned is stored in the receiver’s place of residence or in an enclosed structure on the receiver’s private property, which is not zoned for commercial, retail, or industrial activity.
(c) The firearm at all times stays within the receiver’s place of residence or in an enclosed structure on the receiver’s private property, which is not zoned for commercial, retail, or industrial activity.
(d) The individual receiving the firearm is not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm.
(e) The individual receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older.
(f) One of the following applies:
(1) The firearm is maintained within a locked container.
(2) The firearm is disabled by a firearm safety device.
(3) The firearm is maintained within a locked gun safe.
(4) The firearm is locked with a locking device, as defined in Section 16860, which has rendered the firearm inoperable.
(g) The loan does not exceed 120 days in duration.
(h) The loan is made without consideration.
(i) There is a written document in a format prescribed by the Department of Justice that explains the obligations imposed by this section that is signed by both the party loaning the firearm for storage and the person receiving the firearm.
(j) Both parties to the loan have signed copies of the written document required by subdivision (i).

I’m confused. If someone’s child joins the military or goes to college, is unable to take their firearms with them, and are gone for more than 120 days - they have to DROS and transfer firearms to their parents?
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Old 05-27-2020, 9:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfull View Post
The CPS is worst than the DMV. They hate guns in the house and will make a major point in the process. Even if your job requires you to be armed they make you jump thru hoops. For your sister you should remove all your guns and ammo to your house until it is final.
She already told the CPS lady there were guns in the safe. The worst part is, the gun safe is in the baby's room. It's kind of hard to miss, it's like 4 feet wide and 6 feet tall. It's bolted to the foundation so THAT will be a real PITA to move. She should have just set up the baby's room in the office. It's a lot smaller but no gun safe.
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Old 05-27-2020, 10:33 AM
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CPS is infected with a bunch of loon left wing dem/libs that hate men and seem to hate kids too given how many they improperly take and place. They can be quite arbitrary in their power trips, and if they get called on details, they can very easily bury your family case in the red-tape heap.

If you truly want to help the family, just get your guns, ammo, and safe out of there. Most likley, there will be a stipulation in the custody order that makes having any guns in the home impossible, so get your stuff to another location and just make the problem go away.

If you want to make your point with them, then good luck. They will run you through the taxpayer funded meat grinder while you spend your money. And as for time, the child will be of majority age before your case gets to court and/or through appeals. Just move the safe and its contents.
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Old 05-27-2020, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess B. Guy View Post
His house, his safe, his guns, his storage, his access. Where is the transfer?
PC 27883 talks about "loan".
He doesn't live there. It's a rental. His sister is his tenant.
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Old 05-27-2020, 12:03 PM
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Move the safe out of there, off the property of possible. As others have said, CPS has their own rules under the guidance of safety and health of the child outweigh anything else. Except for that poor kid who was murdered in Palmdale or Lancaster.
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Old 05-27-2020, 1:00 PM
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I went through exact same thing many years ago. My wife and I were going to take custody of a grand child.

Yes, CPS did exactly that... guns can't be loaded and no ammo in same container(safe). I bought a small firesafe and dropped all the loaded magazines in there.

CPS will also swing their d!cks on some issues. They rode my *** on a disagreement on fencing. First inspection had a fencing issue. I asked about a specific solution and was told to do it. Follow up inspection and it wasn't correct. Same person both times. I explained they told me other way. They whipped out their d!ck and told me I was full of it. I turned it back on them and asked "what is your solution this time".
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Old 05-27-2020, 1:18 PM
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Your sister cannot have access to safe, Move the ammo to comply with cps.
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Old 05-27-2020, 2:17 PM
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Well the inspection, the first one at least, just got finished. It was done by a nice, pleasant latina lady. My sister asked if we could get the safe inspection out of the way so I could go on about my day. I opened the safe and had all the ammo that I didn't move to my house in locked containers. I also removed all the magazines from the pistols. I don't have a light in there and it was kind of dark. I asked her if she wanted a flashlight and she declined. She really didn't even look deep inside. She kept her distance like 10 feet away. All she asked me was for the calibers of the firearms. She then said I could close the door.

I asked her if the weapon safe was going to be a deal breaker, she said nope. As long as guidelines were complied with. She really didn't seem concerned with the guns as she did other stuff like cabinet locks, the cat, and some other minor stuff. Maybe she has a fantastic poker face, idk but I got the vibe it didn't bother her much. Their biggest hurdle is her husband's domestic violence arrest 18 years ago with his first wife(no charges were ever filed).
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Old 05-27-2020, 3:08 PM
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OP, well done. Good luck to your sister and her husband. I consider someone taking on the responsibility of a child, especially someone else's child and providing for them, to be an honorable endeavor.
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Old 05-27-2020, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NATEWA View Post
I’m confused. If someone’s child joins the military or goes to college, is unable to take their firearms with them, and are gone for more than 120 days - they have to DROS and transfer firearms to their parents?
Option 1.
Transfer to parents via intra-familial transfer.

Option 2.
Transfer to another person via CA FFL dealer.

Option 3.
Pay a CA FFL dealer to store them.
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Old 05-28-2020, 8:00 AM
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Open safe. Empty safe. Put the child in the safe. Take a pic and send it in.
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Old 05-28-2020, 8:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Option 1.
Transfer to parents via intra-familial transfer.

Option 2.
Transfer to another person via CA FFL dealer.

Option 3.
Pay a CA FFL dealer to store them.

Thanks
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Old 05-28-2020, 9:25 AM
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Tell the CPS you will lock the room instead. Tell your sister, sorry but it has to be done.
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Old 05-28-2020, 4:24 PM
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Quote:
CA laws changed on 01-01-2020.

It only legal to store unloaded firearms in a locked container/safe, that only you have access to, at another person's residence for less than 120 days. [PC 27883]

If the firearms are being stored for more than 120 days, then they need to be transferred (4473/DROS/10 day wait) through a CA FFL dealer to the person storing the firearms. [PC 27545]
^Failure to transfer them through a CA FFL dealer, is considered an illegal transfer (you to person storing firearms).
^^^I'm not seeing that in either PC.^^^


PC 27545 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=27545 Is in relation to "SALE-LEASE-LOAN-or TRANSFER" of firearms.

OP's circumstances do not apply to any of those.

PC 27883 deals with the "LOAN" of firearms. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...r=4.&article=6. Which in OP's circumstances, also does not apply.

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/loan CITE...Collins Dictionary of Law © W.J. Stewart, 2006

Quote:
LOAN.... a transaction whereby property is lent or given to another on condition of return or, where the loan is of money, >SNIP<.
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedict....com/transfers CITE...Collins Dictionary of Law © W.J. Stewart, 2006

Quote:
TRANSFER.... to make over to another rights in or interests over property; sometimes the term is used as a noun to denote the instrument by which this is effected.
OPs circumstance did not meet any of the conditions of either PC. There was no "LOAN or TRANSFER". According to "legal" definitions of those words. Or the reading of the PCs. OP conveyed no right of ownership, or possession, of his firearms to his sister. She doesn't have ACCESS to or possession of the firearms.

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedict...com/possession CITE....Copyright © 1981-2005 by Gerald N. Hill and Kathleen T. Hill

Quote:
POSSESSION
n. any article, object, asset or property which one owns, occupies, holds or has under control. "Constructive possession" involves property which is not immediately held, but which one has the right to hold and the means to get (such as a key to a storeroom or safe deposit box)
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Old 05-28-2020, 5:05 PM
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I keep all my ammo in ammo boxes, they do have the kits you can buy so you can add a padlock to each can. That would be my choice as an option if I had to do so. If I had access to some metal working equipment I would make my own. I think the kits look the best, but there are other ways to lock the ammo can. Videos below. Of course you would want locks that come in a set so you can use the same key on all of them. As long as your safe has room. My current safe has just enough room to close the door with my cans stacked up front facing forward, if I put a lock on the front of them the door may not close, it is that tight. But maybe you have a save with a bit more room.

KIT.. https://www.amazon.com/gunandsurplus...R6Q?th=1&psc=1

The first is the kit I like, but I have not actually used them yet.


other options..
Probably the simplest. Non destructive, But is it closed enough to keep your seal?


I like the look of this one and it is more stream lined etc but you lose your air/water tight seal.


I kind of like this idea as well, box keeps its seal and not too much work.
about as minimal of a look you are going to get with a padlock.
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Old 05-28-2020, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pacrat View Post
^^^I'm not seeing that in either PC.^^^


PC 27545 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=27545 Is in relation to "SALE-LEASE-LOAN-or TRANSFER" of firearms.

OP's circumstances do not apply to any of those.

PC 27883 deals with the "LOAN" of firearms. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...r=4.&article=6. Which in OP's circumstances, also does not apply.

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/loan CITE...Collins Dictionary of Law © W.J. Stewart, 2006



https://legal-dictionary.thefreedict....com/transfers CITE...Collins Dictionary of Law © W.J. Stewart, 2006



OPs circumstance did not meet any of the conditions of either PC. There was no "LOAN or TRANSFER". According to "legal" definitions of those words. Or the reading of the PCs. OP conveyed no right of ownership, or possession, of his firearms to his sister. She doesn't have ACCESS to or possession of the firearms.

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedict...com/possession CITE....Copyright © 1981-2005 by Gerald N. Hill and Kathleen T. Hill
They changed it so that, starting 01-01-2020, "storing" is now considered a form of "loaning".

CA legislative intent...

"Existing law, subject to exceptions, generally requires the loan of a firearm to be conducted by a firearms dealer.

This bill would prohibit a person who is 18 years of age or older and who is the owner, lessee, renter, or other legal occupant of a residence, while outside of that residence, from keeping in that residence a firearm that has been loaned to the person unless it is stored in one of certain specified ways, including in a gun safe or by using a firearm safety device. The bill would authorize the loan of a firearm without a firearms dealer’s participation if the loan occurs at the lender’s real property, or residence, as defined, the firearm remains on the real property, and if other conditions are met."



Penal Code 27883
Section 27545 does not apply to the loan of a firearm provided all of the following requirements are met:
(a) The firearm being loaned is registered to the person making the loan pursuant to Section 11106.
(b) The firearm being loaned is stored in the receiver’s place of residence or in an enclosed structure on the receiver’s private property, which is not zoned for commercial, retail, or industrial activity.
(c) The firearm at all times stays within the receiver’s place of residence or in an enclosed structure on the receiver’s private property, which is not zoned for commercial, retail, or industrial activity.
(d) The individual receiving the firearm is not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm.
(e) The individual receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older.
(f) One of the following applies:
(1) The firearm is maintained within a locked container.
(2) The firearm is disabled by a firearm safety device.
(3) The firearm is maintained within a locked gun safe.
(4) The firearm is locked with a locking device, as defined in Section 16860, which has rendered the firearm inoperable.
(g) The loan does not exceed 120 days in duration.
(h) The loan is made without consideration.
(i) There is a written document in a format prescribed by the Department of Justice that explains the obligations imposed by this section that is signed by both the party loaning the firearm for storage and the person receiving the firearm.
(j) Both parties to the loan have signed copies of the written document required by subdivision (i).
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  #29  
Old 05-29-2020, 7:45 AM
GiveMeMo2A GiveMeMo2A is offline
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Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
They changed it so that, starting 01-01-2020, "storing" is now considered a form of "loaning".

CA legislative intent...

"Existing law, subject to exceptions, generally requires the loan of a firearm to be conducted by a firearms dealer.

This bill would prohibit a person who is 18 years of age or older and who is the owner, lessee, renter, or other legal occupant of a residence, while outside of that residence, from keeping in that residence a firearm that has been loaned to the person unless it is stored in one of certain specified ways, including in a gun safe or by using a firearm safety device. The bill would authorize the loan of a firearm without a firearms dealer’s participation if the loan occurs at the lender’s real property, or residence, as defined, the firearm remains on the real property, and if other conditions are met."



Penal Code 27883
Section 27545 does not apply to the loan of a firearm provided all of the following requirements are met:
(a) The firearm being loaned is registered to the person making the loan pursuant to Section 11106.
(b) The firearm being loaned is stored in the receiver’s place of residence or in an enclosed structure on the receiver’s private property, which is not zoned for commercial, retail, or industrial activity.
(c) The firearm at all times stays within the receiver’s place of residence or in an enclosed structure on the receiver’s private property, which is not zoned for commercial, retail, or industrial activity.
(d) The individual receiving the firearm is not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm.
(e) The individual receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older.
(f) One of the following applies:
(1) The firearm is maintained within a locked container.
(2) The firearm is disabled by a firearm safety device.
(3) The firearm is maintained within a locked gun safe.
(4) The firearm is locked with a locking device, as defined in Section 16860, which has rendered the firearm inoperable.
(g) The loan does not exceed 120 days in duration.
(h) The loan is made without consideration.
(i) There is a written document in a format prescribed by the Department of Justice that explains the obligations imposed by this section that is signed by both the party loaning the firearm for storage and the person receiving the firearm.
(j) Both parties to the loan have signed copies of the written document required by subdivision (i).
So, what I want to know are you reforming your notion of allowable actions one may engage in solely on the basis of what is written in law? If not, can you quote what caused you to reform your notion of storing. I read the law as if you loan, then these laws must be followed. If... If you do not loan, then there is zero applicability, as that law _only_ relates to a loan. For example, if you sell it to them, then the 120 days part for example, doesn't kick in, because it is not a loan.

Now, if you are forming your notion of what one can do from the law, this is wrong. The law never says what one can do. It says _only_ what you cannot do. The only form of prescription of what you can do, is when what is listed is an action or condition that provides for the non-applicability of another part of the code that says, you cannot do X. For example, you cannot sell, unless you transfer through an FFL. A law that says, you can loan, sell or buy, in a section that talks about control of a firearm, covers only loans, selling and buying. If you want to maintain control not loan, not sell and not buy and store your firearm at location X, that is only subject to a law that says you cannot store your firearm at location X.

So, let us consider now what a law that does control the storage look like for comparison.

CHAPTER 2. Criminal Storage of Firearm [25100 - 25140]

I think that might cover the storage of firearms. I could be wrong, let's examine chapter 2, and find out.

25100:

a person commits the crime of “criminal storage of a firearm in the first degree” if all of the following conditions are satisfied

Yeah, that seams to do exactly what the chapter title said it was going to do. Now, let us consider storing at another persons house. Does 25100 apply in the thread's case? 1 Applies, they have custody and/or control, they are the landlord. 2 Could apply, if they child can defeat the safe. If they can, 2 would apply, if not, then they are safe. 3 would be a judgement call. If we assume the child is a master safe cracker, and the person knew it, then 2 cannot protect them. If a normal child and an good safe, then 2 would prevent a conviction under 25100.

Onto 25105. In the original case, b would apply, if the safe is qualified as a locked container. If a good safe, in good repair, then b would apply.

25110-25120 doesn't apply.

25135, let's say the sister is a convicted felon, for arguments sake. a would apply, however 3 would be apply and prevent the application of a.

And last, 25140 doesn't apply. These are the laws concerning the topic at hand, storing, and unless you can find another law, that states that storing is unlawful, by the law, the storage in question is fine. You can't quote a law on selling guns to convict for storing. You cannot use a loaning law, to convict for storing, unless the storing happens after a loan.

So, let's ask again, why do you think a law on loaning applies to the action of storing?
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  #30  
Old 05-29-2020, 2:05 PM
pacrat pacrat is offline
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Quote:
They changed it so that, starting 01-01-2020, "storing" is now considered a form of "loaning".

CA legislative intent...

"Existing law, subject to exceptions, generally requires the loan of a firearm to be conducted by a firearms dealer.

This bill would prohibit a person who is 18 years of age or older and who is the owner, lessee, renter, or other legal occupant of a residence, while outside of that residence, from keeping in that residence a firearm that has been loaned to the person unless it is stored in one of certain specified ways, including in a gun safe or by using a firearm safety device. The bill would authorize the loan of a firearm without a firearms dealer’s participation if the loan occurs at the lender’s real property, or residence, as defined, the firearm remains on the real property, and if other conditions are met."

Sorry, it''s just not there. It only defines HOW and for HOW LONG, the firearm is stored AFTER the ACT OF LOANING.

It does not change the ACT of "storing". INTO the ACT of LOANING, after a given time frame.
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  #31  
Old 05-30-2020, 8:00 AM
wichlaz wichlaz is offline
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I have to follow the same rules. I have a child care in my home...they are the same agency as CPS.

Guns and ammo must be locked separately. Guns unloaded. Separately just means separate locks, not separate locations. If I have a trigger or cable lock on the guns they can be in the same safe as the ammo. I choose to have two small safes next to each other in the same closet so I can stick a thumb on each pad and open them both at the same time

These are conditions of obtaining child care or foster parent license. The license is not a right, so here we are.
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  #32  
Old 06-07-2020, 9:02 AM
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BAJ475 BAJ475 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post
... Their biggest hurdle is her husband's domestic violence arrest 18 years ago with his first wife(no charges were ever filed).
This usually comes up when the person attempts to purchase a firearm. If no charges were filed, then it is a detention not an arrest. And, the person should get the arresting agency to issue a certificate stating that it was a detention and notify the CA DOJ that is was a detention not an arrest. PC § 851.6, subds. (b) & (d); Schmidt v. California Highway Patrol (2016) 1 Cal.App.5th 1287.
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  #33  
Old 06-08-2020, 12:58 PM
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Darto Darto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliforniaCowboy View Post
I keep all my ammo in ammo boxes, they do have the kits you can buy so you can add a padlock to each can. That would be my choice as an option if I had to do so. If I had access to some metal working equipment I would make my own. I think the kits look the best, but there are other ways to lock the ammo can. Videos below. Of course you would want locks that come in a set so you can use the same key on all of them. As long as your safe has room. My current safe has just enough room to close the door with my cans stacked up front facing forward, if I put a lock on the front of them the door may not close, it is that tight. But maybe you have a save with a bit more room.

KIT.. https://www.amazon.com/gunandsurplus...R6Q?th=1&psc=1

The first is the kit I like, but I have not actually used them yet.


other options..
Probably the simplest. Non destructive, But is it closed enough to keep your seal?


I like the look of this one and it is more stream lined etc but you lose your air/water tight seal.


I kind of like this idea as well, box keeps its seal and not too much work.
about as minimal of a look you are going to get with a padlock.

DOH! I used #1 only I made them myself (still expensive about $4). #4 is cheaper (almost free except for replacing the used cutting wheel). Wish I had been clever enough to know to do that on umpteen cans


Philadelphia Security Products can supply any number of Master padlocks, many sizes, all keyed alike. Years later you can reorder telling them the key number and get more locks keyed like your old ones:
https://allpadlocks.com/
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