#1
|
|||
|
|||
Gun safe question pertaining to children
I have a rental home my sister lives in. I have a big safe in one of the rooms, that I still have a lot of my guns in.
Her and her husband are trying to take custody of her husbands niece's 1 year old daughter because the niece is a mess and the CPS has taken custody of the child. So the CPS wants to see what's in my gun safe. I'm not sure why but whatevs. I've removed a few guns and taken them home and stuffed the rest of the safe with the ammo I had laying on top. Now my sister is telling me that CPS says that the ammo and guns can be in the same safe but that the ammo all has to be in locked containers? I've been out of the loop for a while now. That's not mandatory is it. It's going to be a major PITA to put all that ammo in locked containers. I used to shoot a lot. Every wkd either shooting or hunting so it's like 20 years worth of ammo stash. Ugh. Advice please |
#2
|
||||
|
||||
Never heard that as a law, but IDK for sure.
Sounds like CPS has their own set of "rules".
__________________
Originally posted by Kestryll: It never fails to amuse me how people get outraged but fail to tell the whole story in their rants.... |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
This is the second time today I seen people believe that ammunition must be stored separately from firearms even if in a safe.
This seems insane. So the gun most be locked in the safe. But having the ammo in a separate box even if locked won't be bolted to the floor. As for CPS they can do just about anything the like when declaring a place as safe for children. There few stories where owning any gun no matter how stored would have CPS fail the family. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
CPS has their own set of rules. Like in some counties, you cannot have tin foil in the house.
Play nice or they won’t play at all. Sucks you may have to move stuff. But if it helps your sister than it’s worth it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
#7
|
||||
|
||||
CPS has their own rules/policies on deeming what is a safe enviroment for a child.
Some of these rules/policies may go above and beyond what the minimum legal requirements are for firearm and ammunition storage. ^Violating those rules/policies would not bring legal charges, but can be used as grounds for removal of a child. Quote:
CA laws changed on 01-01-2020. It only legal to store unloaded firearms in a locked container/safe, that only you have access to, at another person's residence for less than 120 days. [PC 27883] If the firearms are being stored for more than 120 days, then they need to be transferred (4473/DROS/10 day wait) through a CA FFL dealer to the person storing the firearms. [PC 27545] ^Failure to transfer them through a CA FFL dealer, is considered an illegal transfer (you to person storing firearms). Penal Code 27545 Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer’s license issued pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive, the parties to the transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that firearm through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 28050). Penal Code 27883 Section 27545 does not apply to the loan of a firearm provided all of the following requirements are met: (a) The firearm being loaned is registered to the person making the loan pursuant to Section 11106. (b) The firearm being loaned is stored in the receiver’s place of residence or in an enclosed structure on the receiver’s private property, which is not zoned for commercial, retail, or industrial activity. (c) The firearm at all times stays within the receiver’s place of residence or in an enclosed structure on the receiver’s private property, which is not zoned for commercial, retail, or industrial activity. (d) The individual receiving the firearm is not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm. (e) The individual receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older. (f) One of the following applies: (1) The firearm is maintained within a locked container. (2) The firearm is disabled by a firearm safety device. (3) The firearm is maintained within a locked gun safe. (4) The firearm is locked with a locking device, as defined in Section 16860, which has rendered the firearm inoperable. (g) The loan does not exceed 120 days in duration. (h) The loan is made without consideration. (i) There is a written document in a format prescribed by the Department of Justice that explains the obligations imposed by this section that is signed by both the party loaning the firearm for storage and the person receiving the firearm. (j) Both parties to the loan have signed copies of the written document required by subdivision (i).
__________________
"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001). Last edited by Quiet; 05-26-2020 at 11:19 PM.. |
#8
|
||||
|
||||
Don't do this. While there may be no legal requirement to have ammunition in a locked container, CPS has many "rules" which are not specifically codified. At least before you go this route speak to an attorney and don't take internet advice.
__________________
"You fickers are all cray cray in my opinion. Non of you have an iQ over 80." - SandyCrotchSurfer aka SandyEggoSurf "News stories and the truth are a bit like fraternal twins. They are related but only vaguely resemble each other." "The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich quick theory of life." - Theodore Roosevelt |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Just bought 10 locking storage containers at HD that I'm going to put in a locked closet for the ammo. I don't have room for all that stuff where I'm at now. PITA I tell ya... |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#12
|
||||
|
||||
The CPS is worst than the DMV. They hate guns in the house and will make a major point in the process. Even if your job requires you to be armed they make you jump thru hoops. For your sister you should remove all your guns and ammo to your house until it is final.
|
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
I’m confused. If someone’s child joins the military or goes to college, is unable to take their firearms with them, and are gone for more than 120 days - they have to DROS and transfer firearms to their parents? |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#15
|
||||
|
||||
CPS is infected with a bunch of loon left wing dem/libs that hate men and seem to hate kids too given how many they improperly take and place. They can be quite arbitrary in their power trips, and if they get called on details, they can very easily bury your family case in the red-tape heap.
If you truly want to help the family, just get your guns, ammo, and safe out of there. Most likley, there will be a stipulation in the custody order that makes having any guns in the home impossible, so get your stuff to another location and just make the problem go away. If you want to make your point with them, then good luck. They will run you through the taxpayer funded meat grinder while you spend your money. And as for time, the child will be of majority age before your case gets to court and/or through appeals. Just move the safe and its contents.
__________________
Benefactor Life Member, National Rifle Association Life Member, California Rifle and Pistol Association |
#16
|
||||
|
||||
He doesn't live there. It's a rental. His sister is his tenant.
__________________
Poke'm with a stick! |
#17
|
||||
|
||||
Move the safe out of there, off the property of possible. As others have said, CPS has their own rules under the guidance of safety and health of the child outweigh anything else. Except for that poor kid who was murdered in Palmdale or Lancaster.
|
#18
|
|||
|
|||
I went through exact same thing many years ago. My wife and I were going to take custody of a grand child.
Yes, CPS did exactly that... guns can't be loaded and no ammo in same container(safe). I bought a small firesafe and dropped all the loaded magazines in there. CPS will also swing their d!cks on some issues. They rode my *** on a disagreement on fencing. First inspection had a fencing issue. I asked about a specific solution and was told to do it. Follow up inspection and it wasn't correct. Same person both times. I explained they told me other way. They whipped out their d!ck and told me I was full of it. I turned it back on them and asked "what is your solution this time". |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
Well the inspection, the first one at least, just got finished. It was done by a nice, pleasant latina lady. My sister asked if we could get the safe inspection out of the way so I could go on about my day. I opened the safe and had all the ammo that I didn't move to my house in locked containers. I also removed all the magazines from the pistols. I don't have a light in there and it was kind of dark. I asked her if she wanted a flashlight and she declined. She really didn't even look deep inside. She kept her distance like 10 feet away. All she asked me was for the calibers of the firearms. She then said I could close the door.
I asked her if the weapon safe was going to be a deal breaker, she said nope. As long as guidelines were complied with. She really didn't seem concerned with the guns as she did other stuff like cabinet locks, the cat, and some other minor stuff. Maybe she has a fantastic poker face, idk but I got the vibe it didn't bother her much. Their biggest hurdle is her husband's domestic violence arrest 18 years ago with his first wife(no charges were ever filed). |
#21
|
||||
|
||||
OP, well done. Good luck to your sister and her husband. I consider someone taking on the responsibility of a child, especially someone else's child and providing for them, to be an honorable endeavor.
|
#22
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Transfer to parents via intra-familial transfer. Option 2. Transfer to another person via CA FFL dealer. Option 3. Pay a CA FFL dealer to store them. |
#26
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
PC 27545 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=27545 Is in relation to "SALE-LEASE-LOAN-or TRANSFER" of firearms. OP's circumstances do not apply to any of those. PC 27883 deals with the "LOAN" of firearms. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...r=4.&article=6. Which in OP's circumstances, also does not apply. https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/loan CITE...Collins Dictionary of Law © W.J. Stewart, 2006 Quote:
Quote:
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedict...com/possession CITE....Copyright © 1981-2005 by Gerald N. Hill and Kathleen T. Hill Quote:
|
#27
|
||||
|
||||
I keep all my ammo in ammo boxes, they do have the kits you can buy so you can add a padlock to each can. That would be my choice as an option if I had to do so. If I had access to some metal working equipment I would make my own. I think the kits look the best, but there are other ways to lock the ammo can. Videos below. Of course you would want locks that come in a set so you can use the same key on all of them. As long as your safe has room. My current safe has just enough room to close the door with my cans stacked up front facing forward, if I put a lock on the front of them the door may not close, it is that tight. But maybe you have a save with a bit more room.
KIT.. https://www.amazon.com/gunandsurplus...R6Q?th=1&psc=1 The first is the kit I like, but I have not actually used them yet. other options.. Probably the simplest. Non destructive, But is it closed enough to keep your seal? I like the look of this one and it is more stream lined etc but you lose your air/water tight seal. I kind of like this idea as well, box keeps its seal and not too much work. about as minimal of a look you are going to get with a padlock.
__________________
https://thedeplorablepatriot.com/ "A Holocaust survivor dies of old age, when he gets to heaven he tells God a Holocaust joke. God says, That isn't funny. The Old man tells God, well, I guess you had to be there." |
#28
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
CA legislative intent... "Existing law, subject to exceptions, generally requires the loan of a firearm to be conducted by a firearms dealer. This bill would prohibit a person who is 18 years of age or older and who is the owner, lessee, renter, or other legal occupant of a residence, while outside of that residence, from keeping in that residence a firearm that has been loaned to the person unless it is stored in one of certain specified ways, including in a gun safe or by using a firearm safety device. The bill would authorize the loan of a firearm without a firearms dealer’s participation if the loan occurs at the lender’s real property, or residence, as defined, the firearm remains on the real property, and if other conditions are met." Penal Code 27883 Section 27545 does not apply to the loan of a firearm provided all of the following requirements are met: (a) The firearm being loaned is registered to the person making the loan pursuant to Section 11106. (b) The firearm being loaned is stored in the receiver’s place of residence or in an enclosed structure on the receiver’s private property, which is not zoned for commercial, retail, or industrial activity. (c) The firearm at all times stays within the receiver’s place of residence or in an enclosed structure on the receiver’s private property, which is not zoned for commercial, retail, or industrial activity. (d) The individual receiving the firearm is not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm. (e) The individual receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older. (f) One of the following applies: (1) The firearm is maintained within a locked container. (2) The firearm is disabled by a firearm safety device. (3) The firearm is maintained within a locked gun safe. (4) The firearm is locked with a locking device, as defined in Section 16860, which has rendered the firearm inoperable. (g) The loan does not exceed 120 days in duration. (h) The loan is made without consideration. (i) There is a written document in a format prescribed by the Department of Justice that explains the obligations imposed by this section that is signed by both the party loaning the firearm for storage and the person receiving the firearm. (j) Both parties to the loan have signed copies of the written document required by subdivision (i). |
#29
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Now, if you are forming your notion of what one can do from the law, this is wrong. The law never says what one can do. It says _only_ what you cannot do. The only form of prescription of what you can do, is when what is listed is an action or condition that provides for the non-applicability of another part of the code that says, you cannot do X. For example, you cannot sell, unless you transfer through an FFL. A law that says, you can loan, sell or buy, in a section that talks about control of a firearm, covers only loans, selling and buying. If you want to maintain control not loan, not sell and not buy and store your firearm at location X, that is only subject to a law that says you cannot store your firearm at location X. So, let us consider now what a law that does control the storage look like for comparison. CHAPTER 2. Criminal Storage of Firearm [25100 - 25140] I think that might cover the storage of firearms. I could be wrong, let's examine chapter 2, and find out. 25100: a person commits the crime of “criminal storage of a firearm in the first degree” if all of the following conditions are satisfied Yeah, that seams to do exactly what the chapter title said it was going to do. Now, let us consider storing at another persons house. Does 25100 apply in the thread's case? 1 Applies, they have custody and/or control, they are the landlord. 2 Could apply, if they child can defeat the safe. If they can, 2 would apply, if not, then they are safe. 3 would be a judgement call. If we assume the child is a master safe cracker, and the person knew it, then 2 cannot protect them. If a normal child and an good safe, then 2 would prevent a conviction under 25100. Onto 25105. In the original case, b would apply, if the safe is qualified as a locked container. If a good safe, in good repair, then b would apply. 25110-25120 doesn't apply. 25135, let's say the sister is a convicted felon, for arguments sake. a would apply, however 3 would be apply and prevent the application of a. And last, 25140 doesn't apply. These are the laws concerning the topic at hand, storing, and unless you can find another law, that states that storing is unlawful, by the law, the storage in question is fine. You can't quote a law on selling guns to convict for storing. You cannot use a loaning law, to convict for storing, unless the storing happens after a loan. So, let's ask again, why do you think a law on loaning applies to the action of storing? |
#30
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Sorry, it''s just not there. It only defines HOW and for HOW LONG, the firearm is stored AFTER the ACT OF LOANING. It does not change the ACT of "storing". INTO the ACT of LOANING, after a given time frame. |
#31
|
|||
|
|||
I have to follow the same rules. I have a child care in my home...they are the same agency as CPS.
Guns and ammo must be locked separately. Guns unloaded. Separately just means separate locks, not separate locations. If I have a trigger or cable lock on the guns they can be in the same safe as the ammo. I choose to have two small safes next to each other in the same closet so I can stick a thumb on each pad and open them both at the same time These are conditions of obtaining child care or foster parent license. The license is not a right, so here we are. |
#32
|
||||
|
||||
This usually comes up when the person attempts to purchase a firearm. If no charges were filed, then it is a detention not an arrest. And, the person should get the arresting agency to issue a certificate stating that it was a detention and notify the CA DOJ that is was a detention not an arrest. PC § 851.6, subds. (b) & (d); Schmidt v. California Highway Patrol (2016) 1 Cal.App.5th 1287.
|
#33
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
DOH! I used #1 only I made them myself (still expensive about $4). #4 is cheaper (almost free except for replacing the used cutting wheel). Wish I had been clever enough to know to do that on umpteen cans Philadelphia Security Products can supply any number of Master padlocks, many sizes, all keyed alike. Years later you can reorder telling them the key number and get more locks keyed like your old ones: https://allpadlocks.com/
__________________
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|