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  #1  
Old 05-26-2020, 3:10 PM
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Default Gun failures

I am two years in to gun ownership and its been really fun. Some of my guns fail more than I think they should. I have sent a few back to the manufacturer for multiple failures.

I have not entirely optimized ammo, only trying about 3-5 different types per gun. I keep my guns VERY clean and use Balistol. Should I oil them more? Many boomers have said to use a little oil as possible. I never actually use oil, just Balistol and CLP. Any thoughts there?

Gun: Rounds through gun. approximate failure rate via %


Ruger AR-556: ROUNDS: —-3500 —Failure to feed, 40%. Failure to eject 10%.
Return from Ruger and minor adjustments on my part: 0% failure rate.

Browning Buck Mark: ROUNDS —4000–Stove pipe/failure to eject: 15% Light Primer Strike 3%
Waiting for return.

Smith and Wesson Shield: ROUNDS —1200 —Failure to eject/stove pipe: my 1st 500 rounds were flawless, then came a failure rate of 25%


Ruger 10/22: ROUNDS 6000 —Failure rate too insignificant for me to assess any issues. Failure to eject at .05%, light primer strike at .03%

Springfield XD: Rounds 5500 — Failure rate 0%. Not one failure.

I got to thinking, from the success I had with Ruger, would it be wise to send back any Center fire gun that has a failure rate of over 1%? Rim fire 3%? I imagine they don’t have the time on the production line to really thoroughly inspect the guns. Would sending most back be a way for them to really dial in the product?

What failure rates do you encounter? Would you recommend other methods than the 3-8+weeks needed to send a gun and have it fixed and returned?
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Old 05-26-2020, 7:08 PM
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Ruger AR-556: ROUNDS: —-3500 —Failure to feed, 40%. Failure to eject 10%.
Return from Ruger and minor adjustments on my part: 0% failure rate.

Ok good now

Browning Buck Mark: ROUNDS —4000–Stove pipe/failure to eject: 15% Light Primer Strike 3%
Waiting for return.

22 LR ammo try different brands big difference some love CCI


Smith and Wesson Shield: ROUNDS —1200 —Failure to eject/stove pipe: my 1st 500 rounds were flawless, then came a failure rate of 25%

Ammo same as 22 LR

Ruger 10/22: ROUNDS 6000 —Failure rate too insignificant for me to assess any issues. Failure to eject at .05%, light primer strike at .03%

Ammo as above


Springfield XD: Rounds 5500 — Failure rate 0%. Not one failure.

good gun
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  #3  
Old 05-26-2020, 7:10 PM
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S&W MP-15 ORC.

2nd round didn't fire, trigger wasn't near machined down or polish enough, there was no reset. So yeah, had to fix one outta the box. But since then probably a few thousand rounds maybe, nothing'

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Old 05-26-2020, 8:20 PM
sealocan sealocan is offline
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Millions of years ago, when I was a teenager, there were issues with .22 long rifle rimfire ammo being not 100% reliable.
And depending on how cheap you bought the bulk / cheap stuff it might not be anywhere near that.
Failure to eject that were probably due to lack of powder or strikes on the primer that would not work even if you tried it again in a different part of the rim, as if they forgot to put the primer in the case itself during manufacturing.

Maybe due to automation and (T-800) robots it may be that 22 long rifle Rimfire ammunition is more reliable than it's ever been in the past.

But now we have those same automated systems and robots building firearms when it used to be done by Craftsman, or at least someone who knew how to work with metal and not just computers.

Currently with the high demand for firearms I'm sure they're being rushed out of their factories as soon as they possibly can be made and sold.

But to compare your Ruger 10/22 to the one I had with the old school metal trigger guard and barrel band I would say that one had a failure rate going around less than 1% and I would blame all of that on me cheap poor quality ammo I was running through it.

Last edited by sealocan; 05-26-2020 at 8:24 PM..
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Old 05-27-2020, 6:55 AM
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You do seem to have a high percentage of problems.
Usually, you can't over oil a range gun (very cold weather, extreme dust, etc. could be a problem).
Lube them up well with regular oil and try them again.
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Old 05-27-2020, 7:44 AM
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Don’t forget ammo or magazines as the possible cause of failures. All guns will suffer an occasional failure. I’ve even had a Ruger SA revolver fail. A few issues per 1,000 rounds is no big deal. A failure every 20-30 rounds, especially the same type of failure, is usually indicative of a problem. Same with a previously reliable gun on which nothing has been changed but suddenly starts having failures, also likely a problem.


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Old 05-27-2020, 8:54 AM
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On site troubleshooting may get you to a fix faster than just just posting that "it didn't work".

In general (and this is a partial list):

Failure to eject will mean the bolt didn't come back far/fast enough to get the empty to clear the action prior to the bolt coming back forward, or the ejector didn't, er, eject. May also be caused by a fired cartridge resisting extraction (sticky), or no extraction at all.

Failure to feed: Lots of causes, but look for how it didn't feed: Not releasing from magazine, nose of cartridge hanging up on feed ramp, cartridge not lining up with chamber, bolt riding over cartridge in magazine or not coming back far enough to pick up next cartridge, cartridge not entering chamber (though lined up), bolt has insufficient energy to close completely.

Light primer strike: Bolt not closed completely when hammer/striker released, firing pin travel impeded, short firing pin, weak recoil spring.

Good strike, but no ignition: usually ammo, but can be weak main/hammer/striker spring. With rimfire, as mentioned above, sometimes you can hit a different portion of the rim and get ignition. With CF, sometimes it will fire if you hit it again. In any case, with a primer strike (normal or light) and no ignition, it's good practice to check the barrel for obstructions. At minimum, make sure the round ejected has the bullet still in the case.

22's are particularly susceptible to bad lots because of how the primer has to be spun into the rim. Bad lots are not exactly uncommon (it is a lot better than it was, I think though.)

Anyway, once you figure out the failure mode, it's a lot easier to ID where to look to see what the problem cause is.

Quote:
Many boomers have said to use a little oil as possible. I never actually use oil, just Balistol and CLP. Any thoughts there?
Are boomers your sole source of info? Why even mention that?
"As little oil as possible" means none.
CLP is fine. Any lubricant is better than none.
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  #8  
Old 05-28-2020, 6:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty99 View Post
Don’t forget ammo or magazines as the possible cause of failures. All guns will suffer an occasional failure. I’ve even had a Ruger SA revolver fail. A few issues per 1,000 rounds is no big deal. A failure every 20-30 rounds, especially the same type of failure, is usually indicative of a problem. Same with a previously reliable gun on which nothing has been changed but suddenly starts having failures, also likely a problem.


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I have marked each of my magazines as of last week and will be systematically trouble shooting any issue there. Good advice.
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Old 05-28-2020, 6:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by divingin View Post
On site troubleshooting may get you to a fix faster than just just posting that "it didn't work".

In general (and this is a partial list):

Failure to eject will mean the bolt didn't come back far/fast enough to get the empty to clear the action prior to the bolt coming back forward, or the ejector didn't, er, eject. May also be caused by a fired cartridge resisting extraction (sticky), or no extraction at all.

Failure to feed: Lots of causes, but look for how it didn't feed: Not releasing from magazine, nose of cartridge hanging up on feed ramp, cartridge not lining up with chamber, bolt riding over cartridge in magazine or not coming back far enough to pick up next cartridge, cartridge not entering chamber (though lined up), bolt has insufficient energy to close completely.

Light primer strike: Bolt not closed completely when hammer/striker released, firing pin travel impeded, short firing pin, weak recoil spring.

Good strike, but no ignition: usually ammo, but can be weak main/hammer/striker spring. With rimfire, as mentioned above, sometimes you can hit a different portion of the rim and get ignition. With CF, sometimes it will fire if you hit it again. In any case, with a primer strike (normal or light) and no ignition, it's good practice to check the barrel for obstructions. At minimum, make sure the round ejected has the bullet still in the case.

22's are particularly susceptible to bad lots because of how the primer has to be spun into the rim. Bad lots are not exactly uncommon (it is a lot better than it was, I think though.)

Anyway, once you figure out the failure mode, it's a lot easier to ID where to look to see what the problem cause is.



Are boomers your sole source of info? Why even mention that?
"As little oil as possible" means none.
CLP is fine. Any lubricant is better than none.
My issues have been unique. A few gunsmiths had given me different information, and the manufacturer confirmed that there was a defect in the extractor to my buck mark. Any issue that I bring up is not something I haven’t exhausted every effort to fix. Case in point, AR556 malfs were horrid. I then modified my followers in my mags, stopped using certain mags, Seated ammo properly in mags, lubed the gun a lot more...etc. Its ran flawlessly since a little TLC.

I bought the shield and Buckmark from some older guys. They were my “source” of advice on not lubing the gun at all. I bought the guns from them, they didn’t run well, and it seemed like no matter what my issue was, they’d tell me to do the opposite thing I was doing. They basically had no idea how to help. Its never easy or pleasant asking people for help. Everyone has different ideas and what might work for one on a gun might not work for another. Reliability is the ONLY thing that gets under my skin tho. I think I may be much more focused on reliability than other people. I find other people want their gun to look good, or be light weight, or be the most accurate. All good things, but not as important to me as reliability. I recently picked up a Springfield 1911 Loaded Operator MC and a Springfield Hellcat...I’m hoping these are similar to my xD. Thanks again folks.
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Last edited by Mr. Blue; 05-28-2020 at 6:23 AM..
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Old 05-28-2020, 6:20 AM
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That's a very good data set. Very good record keeping! I've lost track of rounds fired etc. Fortunately, they have all been 100% out of the box with one exception. After the repair, it's been 100%.
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Old 05-28-2020, 6:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty99 View Post
Don’t forget ammo or magazines as the possible cause of failures. All guns will suffer an occasional failure. I’ve even had a Ruger SA revolver fail. A few issues per 1,000 rounds is no big deal. A failure every 20-30 rounds, especially the same type of failure, is usually indicative of a problem. Same with a previously reliable gun on which nothing has been changed but suddenly starts having failures, also likely a problem.


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I’m mostly concerned about my Buckmark. As much as I try to be proficient with taking it apart and putting it back together, I’m still a novice. Do you think the parts of the gun will need to be swapped out every few thousand rounds? Firing pin, ejector? I may try to get my hands on a Ruger Mark iv if the Buckmark doesn’t turn it around. I REALLY like the pistol tho.
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Old 05-28-2020, 6:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XDJYo View Post
That's a very good data set. Very good record keeping! I've lost track of rounds fired etc. Fortunately, they have all been 100% out of the box with one exception. After the repair, it's been 100%.
Are you referring to the 4 pistols that are on your signature? If not, let me know which ones. I’d love to hear about them. Also, those figures were a rough guess. I knew I needed to be precise in order to cause people to respond appropriately. Had I said my gun is malfunctioning too much...I would have been asked “what is too much? What kind of ammo are you using? Are you even cleaning your gun? Do you have fingers? Are you blind?” Lol
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Old 05-28-2020, 6:41 AM
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Old 05-28-2020, 7:25 AM
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Assuming a quality firearm, using quality ammo and magazines, that is keep clean and properly lubed then failures should be very very close to 0%.
Between my competition guns, carry guns, trining, and practice I used go thru about 60,000 rounds a year. Any failure to feed or extract would cause that firearm to be pulled out of use until i could find the faulty part, and then would be a practice only weapon until I was comfortable again. Two or maybe 3 unexplained failures and the gun was eliminated from use.

A gun that is not reliable is useless.
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