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  #1  
Old 05-27-2020, 8:19 PM
jyc jyc is offline
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Default .45 ACP OAL for 200gr LSWC H&G #68 style bullet

Hello all. A multi-part question for the all-knowing reloaders from Calguns:

I decided to redetermine the OAL for the 200gr SWC from Brazos Bullets to improve reliability. Every 50 rounds, I'd have a failure to feed where the bullet would hit the top of the chamber and get stuck. These were loaded at 1.260". No problem - just rack the slide and they'd feed; however, I want to go back to the drawing table to improve reliability.

1) 1.225" passes the plunk test perfectly, drops from the chamber without effort, and spins easily. Yet, they fed terribly with about 6 FTF from the 100 test rounds I made. Does this mean I need to increase the OAL?

2) 1.250" plunks in my barrel, but is difficult to spin the chamber and does not always fall free from the barrel. Where do I go from here?

3) The shorter cartridges sometimes have impressions on the cases when feeding. They appear to be making the impression on lube groove from the bullet. What is causing this and should I be wary?

4) bullets with every OAL (1.225"-1.260") are being dented when chambering the round. Is this a cause for concern? Brazos Bullets says they cast at 13 BHN.

I'm loading with w231 powder and CCI LP for a Springfield TRP. Using Mecgar and Springfield mags.

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  #2  
Old 05-27-2020, 8:47 PM
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Sounds like your reloads are fine and should feed reliably around 1.240 - 1.260”. Do you have a local gunsmith who could take a look at your feed ramp and barrel? If this is a new pistol give Springfield a call and let them know you’re having feeding issues.
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Old 05-27-2020, 8:54 PM
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I have loaded various 200 gr SWCs which look like H&G #68s to 1.225" to 1.250". Those without calipers say to seat with about a thumbnail's width between the case mouth and the top of the straight sides of the projectile. Yours look good. Have you considered whether your barrel ramp needs to be throated or polished? The H&G is a tall bullet, even when seated properly.
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Old 05-27-2020, 9:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmy View Post
I have loaded various 200 gr SWCs which look like H&G #68s to 1.225" to 1.250". Those without calipers say to seat with about a thumbnail's width between the case mouth and the top of the straight sides of the projectile. Yours look good. Have you considered whether your barrel ramp needs to be throated or polished? The H&G is a tall bullet, even when seated properly.
I believe the Springfield TRP comes with a throated and polished barrel. I might ladder test 30 rounds each of 1.230", 1.240", and 1.250". Just looking to see if I'm missing anything.

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  #5  
Old 05-27-2020, 9:20 PM
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Have you tried different mags? I use those same bullets from Brazos and have feeding issues with Wilson combat but run perfect with Ed brown mags (go figure, cheaper mags run great). I run them at 1.260 and 4.4 wst.

What charge are you using of w231?I had issues at lower charge weights.

I'm using a TRP operator fyi.
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Old 05-27-2020, 9:24 PM
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get new mags
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Old 05-27-2020, 9:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sig so sour of ca View Post
Have you tried different mags? I use those same bullets from Brazos and have feeding issues with Wilson combat but run perfect with Ed brown mags (go figure, cheaper mags run great). I run them at 1.260 and 4.4 wst.

What charge are you using of w231?I had issues at lower charge weights.

I'm using a TRP operator fyi.
My typical charge is 5.0gr or 5.3gr. No, I haven't tried different mags, but I have never had a hiccup shooting 500 rounds of factory ball.

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Old 05-28-2020, 6:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jyc View Post
My typical charge is 5.0gr or 5.3gr. No, I haven't tried different mags, but I have never had a hiccup shooting 500 rounds of factory ball.

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Your hand loads look good. Factory ball ammo normally feeds reliably in just about all .45 autos, regardless of mag. I use Chip McCormack mags with my S/A mil- spec. Usually 230gr rn coated. Sometimes 200gr XTP's. OAL for 200gr is:1.235". OAL for 230's is: 1.265"-1.270". Hope this helps a little.
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Old 05-28-2020, 10:52 AM
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Feeding SWC's usually need's some tuning of the magazine feed lips. The round needs to be released a little bit earlier as the slide moves forward. This prevents the nose from hitting the ramp and jamming upward.
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Old 05-28-2020, 11:06 AM
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Power Mags from McCormick
Or Tripp Mags should solve your problem.

It’s a magazine issue, not the ammo
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Last edited by sirgrumps; 05-28-2020 at 11:24 AM..
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  #11  
Old 05-28-2020, 2:43 PM
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Thanks guys. I just loaded an 100 round batch of 5.0gr W231, 1.250" OAL, and 0.469" crimp. I'll number my magazines tomorrow to keep track of FTF. If that seems to be the problem, I'll purchase some Wilson Combat 8rds at Turners and run the test again next week.

Some ammo porn to keep you entertained until tomorrow:

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Old 05-28-2020, 6:59 PM
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2) 1.250" plunks in my barrel, but is difficult to spin the chamber and does not always fall free from the barrel. Where do I go from here?

stop here you are good to go,
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Old 05-29-2020, 8:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jyc View Post
My typical charge is 5.0gr or 5.3gr. No, I haven't tried different mags, but I have never had a hiccup shooting 500 rounds of factory ball.

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Roundnose is the easiest feeding bullet profile, and what the 45 was designed to run. The 200SWC hits the ramp further forward (on the bullet) than RN does, and has a larger diameter and sharper angles at the contact point.

Judging by your pics, you could seat them a little deeper (watch pressure if you're shooting max loads) - I run mine with just a tad of bearing surface visible over the case mouth. That may or may not help. If not, ramp or mag lip alterations are probably in order.
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Old 05-30-2020, 5:15 PM
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RANGE REPORT:

100rds 1.250 OAL 200gr LSWC 5.0gr W231

Mecgar 8rd mags:
1) 15rds - 0 FTF
2) 15rds - 0 FTF
3) 15rds - 0 FTF
4) 15rds - 0 FTF

Springfield 7rd mags:
1) 14 rds - 1 FTF
2) 13rds - 1 FTF
3) 13 rds -1 FTF

Two of the FTF arose when loading a fresh mag. The cartridge chambered after slapping the magazine home. Might be user error. Last FTF was in the middle of a 5rd string.

All in all, 1.250" OAL is a much improved reliability, and I will heed the advice of most on here whom recommended Wilson Combat mags.

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Old 05-30-2020, 5:25 PM
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ive always loaded my 200swc almost even to the case mouth maybe a smidge above yours look a bit long i used bear creek though so i cant give an exact length i too use the seat and crimp die so its tricky to not get a lead ring from too deep + too tight
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Old 05-30-2020, 5:50 PM
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Here is a picture I have of a 1.223" OAL.

Problem is that they fed terribly which caused me to expand the OAL.

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Old 05-30-2020, 7:59 PM
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maybe you should switch to round nose i only have chip mccormic mags and one ramline 9 rounder and mine look about like your flush swc they work in my baby eagle too but thats unfair cause those are mecgar mags and they can pretty much feed an empty case
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Old 05-30-2020, 8:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jyc View Post
I believe the Springfield TRP comes with a throated and polished barrel.
Only the bottom, not the hood.
The hood needs chamfering as well.
The bottom often has a sharper edge than is ideal because the barrel is machine throated, not hand throated.
I just did one yesterday and there is lots to be gained by doing them by hand over how they were factory done by machine.
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Old 05-31-2020, 6:18 PM
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In the interest of mags for the TRP. I recommend the Wilson 47D mags or maybe the ETMs if they have fixed their flaw. The ETMs have a small section that is pressed into the magazine on the top and they hate HP ammo. The 47Ds have no pressed spots and they tend to feed everything fairly reliable.

The 47D are considered OLD and the ETMs are their replacements, but you can find 47D mags on ebay for about $30 each maybe $28 new and the ETMs are gonna run closer to $33 to $37.

The 1911/Operator is the ONLY gun that I have that I tend to use aftermarket mags for almost exclusively. The rule of thumb I have noticed is that when you have a cheaper 1911, you need more expensive mags. But when you get a more expensive 1911, you can run the cheap mags as well. I have run GI $5 mags out of my Operator and had no issues...
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  #20  
Old 06-01-2020, 7:09 AM
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FWIW, I had my first trip to the range yesterday with some 200 grain LSWC loaded to 1.235 and some Bullseye powder. They all fed perfectly into my faux Sig Target 1911 with factory magazines.
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Old 06-01-2020, 7:23 AM
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Bullseye shooters sometimes use another measurement for OAL when loading H&G style bullets (SWC). Shoulder seat all SWC ammo (160g-200g) the same 0.920 - 0.925, bottom case rim to top of shoulder. Crimp everything at .469. This works for all my wad guns and no problems with CZ97, Sig 220 and FN.

-steve
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