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  #1  
Old 09-18-2018, 10:39 AM
Nardo1895 Nardo1895 is offline
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Default Sales Tax on Transfer of Raffle Firearm?

I'm doing a transfer for a firearm a client won through a raffle. The firearm was mailed to me by another California FFL. They did not charge the winner any sales tax. Typically when I get a firearm from another CA FFL they charge the buyer sales tax, but this is my first raffle transfer. Usually its an internet sale.

Should I be charging him sales tax on the "value" of the firearm?

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 09-18-2018, 11:01 AM
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A raffle is not a sale, so no sales tax.

Quote:
“Regular Gambling Withholding: An organization that pays raffle prizes must withhold 25% from the winnings and report this amount to the IRS on Form W-2G.”
Quote:
“Raffles by Tax Exempt Organizations. ... The first important thing to keep in mind is that raffle winnings are taxable income to the recipients, whether the prize is comprised of cash or non-cash items. Prize winners are required to report and potentially pay tax on their winnings on their annual Form 1040.”

Last edited by DolphinFan; 09-18-2018 at 11:04 AM..
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  #3  
Old 09-19-2018, 6:52 AM
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I always request raffle prizes come with documentation saying it is that so I know the taxes will be paid and it's not a regular transfer that the buyer is just saying is a raffle winning.
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  #4  
Old 09-19-2018, 8:42 AM
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There is no sales tax to be collected on prizes / awards. If the amount is greater than the IRS threshold, the winner will be 1099'd.
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Old 09-19-2018, 10:36 AM
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Probably should add this to the sticky unless its already there
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  #6  
Old 09-19-2018, 2:04 PM
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I do several raffle transfers in my area in which I do collect Sales Tax.
The raffle organizers clearly state in writing at the time of the raffle that the winner is to pay sales tax on the particular firearm. Also, when the organizers purchase the firearm from me it is clearly noted at the time of the sale that the individual winners are to pay sales tax.
Unusual circumstances perhaps but no problem as long as all parties understand the process.
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Old 09-19-2018, 2:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
I do several raffle transfers in my area in which I do collect Sales Tax.
The raffle organizers clearly state in writing at the time of the raffle that the winner is to pay sales tax on the particular firearm. Also, when the organizers purchase the firearm from me it is clearly noted at the time of the sale that the individual winners are to pay sales tax.
Unusual circumstances perhaps but no problem as long as all parties understand the process.
This is why I ask for paperwork showing the sales tax is being taken care of if it's a raffle prize. It isn't always set up where the people giving out the prize pay the sales tax.

A lot of the NRA raffle winner guns I transfer the recipient pays sales tax if the firearm donor isn't paying it.
Frontsight gives me paperwork saying they handle the sales tax likely through the same code up above.

So depending on how it comes might determine whether or not we collect sales tax. I know I don't want to be on the hook for it though!
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  #8  
Old 09-19-2018, 2:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
I do several raffle transfers in my area in which I do collect Sales Tax.
The raffle organizers clearly state in writing at the time of the raffle that the winner is to pay sales tax on the particular firearm. Also, when the organizers purchase the firearm from me it is clearly noted at the time of the sale that the individual winners are to pay sales tax.
Unusual circumstances perhaps but no problem as long as all parties understand the process.
I'd argue that you're breaking the law.

Prizes, and Awards (either monetary or product) are considered taxable income under Federal Tax Law, and if the minimum threshold ($600) is met, the operator of the event will report the prize to the IRS and usually issue a 1099 the winner.

If anything you'd collect income tax. Sales Tax surely is not appropriate.
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  #9  
Old 09-20-2018, 9:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundEye View Post
I'd argue that you're breaking the law.

Prizes, and Awards (either monetary or product) are considered taxable income under Federal Tax Law, and if the minimum threshold ($600) is met, the operator of the event will report the prize to the IRS and usually issue a 1099 the winner.

If anything you'd collect income tax. Sales Tax surely is not appropriate.
I would disagree:
How it works (Example):


There are two kinds of taxable income: Earned income (salary, wages, tips, bonuses, commissions, etc.) and unearned income (dividends, interest, rents, alimony, winnings, royalties, etc.).

I follow the procedure advised by BOE.
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  #10  
Old 09-20-2018, 9:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundEye View Post
I'd argue that you're breaking the law.

Prizes, and Awards (either monetary or product) are considered taxable income under Federal Tax Law, and if the minimum threshold ($600) is met, the operator of the event will report the prize to the IRS and usually issue a 1099 the winner.

If anything you'd collect income tax. Sales Tax surely is not appropriate.
I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
I would disagree:
How it works (Example):


There are two kinds of taxable income: Earned income (salary, wages, tips, bonuses, commissions, etc.) and unearned income (dividends, interest, rents, alimony, winnings, royalties, etc.).

I follow the procedure advised by BOE.
Raffle and Prizes are considered "Winnings" therefore considered Income Tax not a Sales Tax.
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  #11  
Old 09-20-2018, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
I would disagree:
How it works (Example):


There are two kinds of taxable income: Earned income (salary, wages, tips, bonuses, commissions, etc.) and unearned income (dividends, interest, rents, alimony, winnings, royalties, etc.).

I follow the procedure advised by BOE.
Again, I think the tax burden is on the operator (the party awarding the prize), and not the retailer delivering it. The receiving party should always claim the value of the prize as "Other Income" on their return, and if above the IRS Threshold ($600) the operator will provide the winner with a 1099.

Where exactly in the BOE Regs does it say a retailer can sub owed income tax for sales tax? If a winner pays you the tax, are they still required to report it as income on their return? If not, what form do you file on their behalf to show that the tax has been paid? As you can see, charging them sales tax really does not make any sense at all.
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  #12  
Old 09-20-2018, 11:11 AM
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This thread is regarding Sales Tax and not Income Tax.

As the retailer I could case less about the Income Tax debt. All I'm concerned with is the collection of the Sales Tax which, when collected from the winner, is then noted as part of the sale...

Not sure how we got off on Income Tax.....
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  #13  
Old 09-20-2018, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
This thread is regarding Sales Tax and not Income Tax.

As the retailer I could case less about the Income Tax debt. All I'm concerned with is the collection of the Sales Tax which, when collected from the winner, is then noted as part of the sale...

Not sure how we got off on Income Tax.....
It's because winnings Raffles Prizes et al are considered income.

They're not sales that are subject to be taxed.
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  #14  
Old 09-20-2018, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
This thread is regarding Sales Tax and not Income Tax.

As the retailer I could case less about the Income Tax debt. All I'm concerned with is the collection of the Sales Tax which, when collected from the winner, is then noted as part of the sale...

Not sure how we got off on Income Tax.....
Because the TAX on the RAFFLE is an INCOME TAX NOT A Sales Tax. You are unlawfully collecting a sales tax where one is not required.

There is NO regulation at the BOE and you have NO Authority to collect an Income Tax.
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  #15  
Old 09-20-2018, 11:33 AM
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Better explain the fine points of that to Ducks Unlimited, Rocky Mountain Elk,
CWA, Wild Turkey Assoc., etc, cause NEVER in my involvement with those organizations have any one of them has ever handed me a 1099 nor anyone I know of a 1099.

So you saying if I sell a rifle to a local 501c3 for a faffle item I do not collect Sales Tax?
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Old 09-20-2018, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
Better explain the fine points of that to Ducks Unlimited, Rocky Mountain Elk,
CWA, Wild Turkey Assoc., etc, cause NEVER in my involvement with those organizations have any one of them has ever handed me a 1099 nor anyone I know of a 1099.
I've received a 1099 from GLOCK, Inc. almost every year since 2011 for prizes won a GSSF matches around the country.
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Old 09-20-2018, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by RoundEye View Post
I've received a 1099 from GLOCK, Inc. almost every year since 2011 for prizes won a GSSF matches around the country.
What paperwork do you expect to receive to confirm prize/raffle status? vs customers trying to avoid sales tax?
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Old 09-20-2018, 1:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundEye View Post
I've received a 1099 from GLOCK, Inc. almost every year since 2011 for prizes won a GSSF matches around the country.
I suspect you're in the minority. And, Glock, Inc. is not a 501c3.
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Old 09-20-2018, 1:20 PM
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BTW, CWA, Rocky Mnt. Elk, Ducks Unlimited are either 501(c)3 or 501(c)7 and are Tax Exempt.
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Old 09-20-2018, 2:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
What paperwork do you expect to receive to confirm prize/raffle status? vs customers trying to avoid sales tax?
I'm not expecting to receive anything.

This post is about whether or not delivering FFLs should be charging Sales or Use Tax on prizes.
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Old 09-20-2018, 2:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundEye View Post
I'm not expecting to receive anything.

This post is about whether or not delivering FFLs should be charging Sales or Use Tax on prizes.
Yes I realize that, but what I'm asking is how do you know what firearm is a prize? Is it a prize because someone said "Hey you won a prize"? Since prize mean something specific for tax as shown in this thread how would you identify a prize firearm should the BOE come auditing?

I believe from other threads I saw you're an FFL or you work in a store. I'm trying to see what others are doing to make sure I'm not missing anything.
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Old 09-20-2018, 2:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
Better explain the fine points of that to Ducks Unlimited, Rocky Mountain Elk,
CWA, Wild Turkey Assoc., etc, cause NEVER in my involvement with those organizations have any one of them has ever handed me a 1099 nor anyone I know of a 1099.

So you saying if I sell a rifle to a local 501c3 for a faffle item I do not collect Sales Tax?
They give the 1099 to the Raffle recipient NOT the FFL. The recipient pays the INCOME TAX to the U.S. Treasury.

Your only requirement is to complete the DROS and collect your $35.

It will suck when the person files their taxes and gets a letter in the mail of the miscalculation based on the 1099 the IRS received.
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  #23  
Old 09-20-2018, 2:36 PM
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The organization who purchases the firearm is responsible for the sales tax, not the person who wins it. There are issues in regards to how it gets to CA and where it is given.
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Old 09-20-2018, 2:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
The organization who purchases the firearm is responsible for the sales tax, not the person who wins it. There are issues in regards to how it gets to CA and where it is given.
What's the right paper trail to keep to show that? I don't know if I'm saving or asking for the right stuff. Typically the discussion goes something like:

Customer: I won this henry rifle from an nra event
Me: Ok, where will it be coming from?

Customer: some FFL that helped at the event
Me: Ok, please have them include some paperwork that this is a raffle prize and that all relevant taxes have been paid

Customer: Ok
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Old 09-20-2018, 3:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
What's the right paper trail to keep to show that? I don't know if I'm saving or asking for the right stuff. Typically the discussion goes something like:

Customer: I won this henry rifle from an nra event
Me: Ok, where will it be coming from?

Customer: some FFL that helped at the event
Me: Ok, please have them include some paperwork that this is a raffle prize and that all relevant taxes have been paid

Customer: Ok
All you need is some sort of proof what they paid for it, which would be zero, so something saying that they won it. If it comes from a CA FFL, that is really all you need since that FFL is responsible, if it was sold, for all the sales tax, including your transfer fee, as you are not the CA retailer.
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Old 09-21-2018, 8:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
Yes I realize that, but what I'm asking is how do you know what firearm is a prize? Is it a prize because someone said "Hey you won a prize"? Since prize mean something specific for tax as shown in this thread how would you identify a prize firearm should the BOE come auditing?

I believe from other threads I saw you're an FFL or you work in a store. I'm trying to see what others are doing to make sure I'm not missing anything.
I'm an FFL.

Anything that the recipient can provide that shows that it was a prize is good in my book. In my experience, most will come with a $0.00 invoice or the like.
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