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Camping, Hiking and Outdoor Activities Camping, hiking, and other outdoor activities within. |
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#121
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I went camping in stanislaus nat. Forest in the fall an I LOC all day and spoke to two rangers and they were surprised I was but did not have a problem with it. I was away from other campsites. I think it has slot to do with how you present yourself and a bi on what rangers you see.
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#122
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Actually, you should be careful with loading in Stanislaus, depending on where you are. The Emigrant Wilderness is the only wilderness in a NF that I know if that has ordered a 36 CFR 261.58 no-shooting restriction. |
#123
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Some of the NPs have updated their web pages already with regard to firearms being allowed starting Monday, like Yellowstone:
http://www.nps.gov/yell/parknews/10008.htm http://www.nps.gov/yell/parkmgmt/lawsandpolicies.htm And some haven't yet, like Yosemite: http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/weapons.htm We're supposed to see a national press release from the Park Service by no later than Monday on this. |
#124
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BTW to the OP: Thanks for the great information. Last edited by POINTMANDDT; 02-19-2010 at 9:04 AM.. |
#125
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I will update the first 3 posts in this thread by Monday. |
#126
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#127
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I would advise against it. It is likely that it will be interpreted that the Parks ban on "use" (i.e. shooting) will trigger 12031 "prohibited area" language, and therefore bans loading (accept in your campsite, in an emergency, and other possible obscure exceptions). There may be a glimmer of hope for LOC depending on interpretations of arcane legal documents but IMO it is unwise at the present time. Stick to UOC. |
#128
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Another LOC Opinion...
So Mudcamper, Does Genes Statement in post #19 give you any confidence in LOC in CA National Parks?
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I posted the same question to him that I did here and await a reply. He seems confident LOC is legal where it isn't restricted. Your thoughts? Edit: Gene replied and is posted below and edited for clarity.
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Last edited by Southwest Chuck; 02-21-2010 at 9:38 PM.. |
#129
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Gene came to the same conclusion as we did, MC, based on my earlier post. I also asked him:
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#130
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So as of tomorrow i can open carry, loaded in redwood national park but what about its back to back state parks like Jedediah Smith and Prairie creek they all interlock at different points on the map what then?
What about Muir woods a very populated tourist spot. |
#131
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For a fuller explanation, go back a page or two in this thread. The discussion starts at post #116, I believe , or go to post #21 located HERE and read from there.
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#132
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#133
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Can I have a firearm in a state park? |
#134
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http://home.nps.gov/news/release.htm?id=962 "New Firearms Law Takes Effect Monday - National parks now subject to state and local firearms laws" |
#135
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Because state and federal law are equal to each other, federal says we can carry, state law says it has to be unloaded open.
So if we goto yellowstone NP can we open or concealed carry loaded?
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2 HANDGUNS STOLEN! 1 RECOVERED READ HERE Chickens Want to get into Ham Radio? Click here http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=202581 |
#136
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For Parks in California, concealed carry is legal with a California CCW. UOC is legal. LOC is a gray area. |
#137
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#138
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I searched San Diego County Code of Regulatory Ordinances and found this interesting:
SEC. 33.101. NO SHOOTING NEAR HABITATION -- SHOOTING RANGES. (a) Other than in defense of person it shall be unlawful for any person to discharge any pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle or any other firearm or device fired or discharged with explosives, at any place within the unincorporated territory of the County which is not a reasonably safe distance from all recreational areas, communities, roads or any occupied dwelling house, residence, or other building or any barn or other outbuilding used in connection therewith except on and pursuant to the safety regulations of a shooting range established and operated pursuant to a permit issued by the Sheriff. SEC. 33.101.5. NO SHOOTING -- PERIODS OF HIGH FIRE HAZARD. (a) Other than in defense of person, it shall be unlawful for any person to discharge any pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle or any other firearm or device fired or discharged with explosives during any period in which a "high fire hazard" has been declared by the California Department of Forestry SEC. 33.104. DISCHARGE OF FIREARMS PROHIBITED. Other than in the defense of person or property, it shall be unlawful for any person to shoot, fire or discharge any pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle or any other firearm or device fired or discharged by explosives, or air gun or air rifle in any portion of the unincorporated territory of the County within that portion of the County of San Diego described as follows (hugely complex listing of property boundaries omitted by tango-52) SEC. 33.105. SHOOTING RESTRICTED. Other than in the defense of person or property, it shall be unlawful for any person to shoot, fire or discharge any pistol, revolver, rifle or any other firearm or device (other than a shotgun) fired or discharged by explosives in any portion of the unincorporated territory of the County within that portion of the County of San Diego described as follows (hugely complex listing of property boundaries omitted by tango-52) I would take the bolded parts to indicate that if I were carrying a loaded firearm for the sole purpose of defense of person, then it would appear to be legal as that is specifically exempted from restriction. This would apply to the unincorporated, public lands of Cleveland National Forest. Although we don't have any National Park lands in San Diego County, there may be similar verbage in other county ordinances that might apply to NPs. It is an exemption for self-defense purposes, not a loophole.
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“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.” - Lazarus Long |
#139
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To Confirm
So, being that we are all in CA. let me use Angeles National forest as an example. If i were to goto a campground there, and carried a loaded sidearm in an exposed holster while on my campsite, I would be within my legal rights??
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#140
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How about this scenario: AR-7 (Henry Survival rifle) disassembled and parts in the stock, magazine in the receiver NOT loaded; spare magazine which fits into the stock cavity LOADED. The stock containing the parts and LOADED SPARE magazine carried in the backpack. Is this concealed carry and illegal? Or is it permissible under the CA law?
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#142
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#143
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Have you fully read this thread, most especially, the first 2 pages? ...Oh, and Welcome to Calguns ! Blueduck
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Last edited by Southwest Chuck; 02-27-2010 at 10:06 AM.. Reason: welcome |
#144
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#145
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CA state park carry/storage.
M.C.,
CA state park handgun storage. Firearms not having a cartridge in any portion of the mechanism, traps, nets, bows and arrows, other unloaded weapons or devices may be possessed within temporary lodging or mechanical mode of conveyance when such implements are rendered temporarily inoperable or are packed, cased, or stored in a manner that will prevent their ready use. Does a loaded mag qualify for "Not having a cartridge in any portion of the mechanism"? Does a tent on my campsite qualify as "temporary lodging"? if so, Does a backpack in my tent, or in a locked suitcase in the tent considered "temporarily inoperable, packed, cased , or stored in a manner that will prevent their ready use"? Or is my vehicle the only place I can have my handgun in a CA state park? Thanks M.C. |
#146
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However the tricky part with the State Parks is that they do not appear to have any exemption for transporting without motor vehicles. How does someone backpack through a Park and not violate s4313? I don't see a way. This might be a good one to write a letter to the appropriate Park official and get an opinion letter on. Sorry I don't have a better answer for you at this point. |
#147
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CA state park handgun storage.
M.C.,
I will look into it with the state park I will be camping/hiking at, and I am also going to Email the California State Parks Public Safety Division with my question and see what their opinion is. I'll get back to you when/if I get a response. Adrian E. Itaya California State Parks Public Safety Division (AITAY@parks.ca.gov) (916) 651-0403 also had a question forgot to ask you and it will be included in my email to Adrian E. Itaya, "temporarily inoperable", in your opinion does that mean my firearm must be taken down? Or is this just one option I have along with it being packed, cased , or stored in a manner that will prevent their ready use" Thanks for the advice! You are El Hombre. I've read alot of these threads on calguns ( O.C., What's loaded, Firearm transport, Parks and Forest laws, head hurts but well worth it ), and the Gurus like you and Librarian are very helpful. Keep up the good work. Stitch |
#148
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#149
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CCR 4313
I sent this Email to The California State Parks
Law Enforcement & Emergency Services Division, Hi, my name is Xxxxx Xxxxx and I am a legally registered Handgun owner. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and was planning to go camping at Big Basin State Park this summer. I would like to be clear on the California State Park Law on firearm storage. I have listed a few questions below reguarding the 4313 Weapons and traps per CA State Park law. Please let me know your opinion or any direct answers you may have so I may feel confident in bringing my legally registered handgun on my camping trip. I found the California State Park law 4313. on the link below my questions. I also included the actual law below the link. I know your time is important and I apriciate you reading my email. I would greatly apriciate any answers or opinions you may have that would help clear this up for me. Here are my questions; Does a loaded handgun magazine qualify for "Not having a cartridge in any portion of the mechanism"? per 4313. Weapons and Traps. Does a tent on my campsite qualify as "temporary lodging"? per 4313. Weapons and Traps. "temporarily inoperable", in your opinion does that mean my handgun must be taken down (slide of handgun detached from frame)? Or is this just one option I have along with it being "packed, cased , or stored in a manner that will prevent their ready use"? per 4313. Weapons and Traps. Does a backpack in my tent, or in a locked suitcase in the tent considered "packed, cased , or stored in a manner that will prevent their ready use"? per 4313. Weapons and Traps. Or is my vehicle trunk, or in a locked case in the the vehicle the only place I can have my unloaded handgun in a CA State Park? http://www.parks.ca.gov/default.asp?page_id=21301 4313. Weapons and Traps. No person shall carry, possess, or discharge across, in or into any portion of any unit any weapon, firearm, box and arrow, trap, net, or device capable of injuring, or killing any person or animal, or capturing any animal, or damaging any public or private property, except where the Department of Parks and Recreation finds that it is in its best interests. Nothing herein contained shall be construed in derogation of the use of weapons permitted by law or regulation and to be used for hunting in a unit, or portion thereof, open to hunting. Firearms not having a cartridge in any portion of the mechanism, traps, nets, bows and arrows, other unloaded weapons or devices may be possessed within temporary lodging or mechanical mode of conveyance when such implements are rendered temporarily inoperable or are packed, cased, or stored in a manner that will prevent their ready use. Here is my response, Your e-mail regarding California Code of Regulations (CCR) section 4313 was forwarded to be for a response. Although the specific circumstances of a visitor possessing a firearm in a California State Park will vary, the totality of the situation would be a determining factor whether a State Park Peace Officer would find the individual in violation of CCR 4313. Therefore, I will answer your inquiries in a general sense: A magazine containing rounds by itself would not constitute a loaded firearm. If the magazine was in the weapon, whether a round was in the chamber or not, the weapon would be considered loaded and in violation. The magazine would need to be stored separately from the weapon. A tent does qualify as temporary lodging, as does a motor home, tent trailer, etc. The removal of the slide/barrel of a semi automatic or the barrel of a long gun would render the weapon inoperable. In lieu of this, a weapon lock should be used. A locked suitcase would prevent ready use. A weapon lock should be used if only using a back pack. Back packs are easily cut into. Hope this information is helpful. I would recommend you contact the particular California State Park you are planning to visit. |
#150
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Mighty nice of them to actually get back to you with their opinion. One thing I still wonder if they would offer an opinion on is this: How does one transport a firearm through a State Park if that person does not own a motor vehicle, or is backpacking through a State Park into an adjacent National Forest or National Park where firearms are permitted? |
#151
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This is an excellent thread. I just need some clarification on one thing though. I go hiking/backpacking up in Desolation a lot, and once had a rather uncomfortable encounter with a mountain lion, so I figure that carrying a sidearm would be prudent in case I am seen as a menu item next time. So from what I have gathered from this thread, keeping a sidearm inside my backpack (loaded or unloaded, doesnt matter) constitutes concealed carry. But if I keep it on the outside it is open and legal. Is this correct?
I understand the rules for open carry, but am uneasy about carrying openly for fear of startling other hikers I may run into. Not to mention that hiking 10-20 miles with a 1911 on my side would be uncomfortable... (yeah I know, plastic gun fans enter your comments here) |
#152
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I also usually carry heavy backpack or at least my camera backpack with lens and other stuff (~20lb) so adding few lbs for 1911 and couple mags does not change much anyways Feeling of freedom is totally worth it!
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790) |
#153
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One thing to think about. If you have another encounter with a mountain lion, what good will that pistol do you buried in your pack? |
#154
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Thank you for the clarification. I may end up open carrying next time I go on a hiking trip. I understand that keeping the pistol in the backpack might defeat the purpose in a time of desperate need anyways, but I was just afraid of startling other hikers.
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#155
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Do you know if you can conceal carry loaded with this 'fishing' exemption or does it have to unloaded? Do most rangers (DFG) know how to deal with this exemption? Just wondering.
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#156
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Doh, should have read the OP!
I went back and read your initial posts (didn't know you were the OP, just following a new post to a long thread - should always go back and read initial posts )
Can carry concealed but must be UNLOADED when fishing or hunting. Kudos for all of the great information in those initial threads!
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Last edited by ArticleTheFourth; 03-15-2010 at 11:13 PM.. |
#158
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I got this from OP's second post:
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Transition time could be long.
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#159
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For the benefit of newbies walking in:
You posted: "Can carry concealed but must be UNLOADED when fishing or hunting." But cite the PC where it says "Can carry concealed but must be UNLOADED WHEN GOING TO / COMING FROM fishing or hunting." The proper conclusion is: "Can carry concealed and LOADED when fishing or hunting, and can carry concealed but must be UNLOADED WHEN GOING TO / COMING FROM fishing or hunting." . Last edited by GuyW; 03-16-2010 at 12:11 PM.. |
#160
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I did give you the PC that the OP wrote at the beginning parts of this thread and I did not put my original language in quotes so it was not an extraction from PC, it was simply my own opinion from the OPs vast amount of information on this topic. I'm not a lawyer (just an engineer) and have not studied the actual PC on this topic. The real issue here is whether or not one can carry loaded and concealed while backpacking on public wilderness for the purpose of hunting or fishing at the destination. Would it depend upon how far the backpacking portion was? Would it depend upon whether one is crossing several different types of public land while backpacking? Essentially, is the backpacking defined as 'going to / coming from' or is it defined as 'fishing or hunting'? I would say the former until you get close to your destination. How close would depend upon the length of the backpacking, but that's just my opinion.
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