Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-07-2013, 11:49 AM
nephrodoc nephrodoc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Southern CA
Posts: 555
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default New AR build recommendation:Midlength or Carbine?

It's been over a year and getting to finish my first AR. Need help selecting an upper.

Got a spikes lower, spikes T2 buffer and lower parts kit.
Looking at spikes complete LE uppers in a 16 inch barrel to finish it off.
Can't decide between their carbine length or midlength gas system.

What would you guys recommend?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-07-2013, 11:53 AM
glock7's Avatar
glock7 glock7 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: V.C.
Posts: 3,391
iTrader: 26 / 100%
Default

Some say middy some say carbine, I have both and I can't tell the difference, recoil wise. I run h2 buffers and they feel the same to me. The st-2 buffer is very smooth, that being said I have run them in my mid and carbine length 16" and there is no difference to me. Maybe someone will chime in with their thoughts.
__________________
#blackriflesmatter
<4 years till retirement, can't wait to leave this state
California, where all of the good stuff is banned, registered, regulated or prohibited, yay.....

Law abiding firearm owners have no chance in this state.

Last edited by glock7; 07-07-2013 at 11:55 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-07-2013, 12:04 PM
Munny$hot's Avatar
Munny$hot Munny$hot is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,621
iTrader: 56 / 100%
Default

You will not feel the impulse difference. I prefer the mid length because of the extended grip surface area
__________________
Can DI AR's run dirty?

Palmetto State Armory Suppliers revealed

"If it ain't stock, it don't belong on your Glock"
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-07-2013, 12:41 PM
Okami's Avatar
Okami Okami is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 1,880
iTrader: 119 / 100%
Thumbs up

This

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munny$hot View Post
You will not feel the impulse difference. I prefer the mid length because of the extended grip surface area
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-07-2013, 12:16 PM
moneymike moneymike is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Camarillo, CA
Posts: 147
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Mid length just looks better with the 16" barrel, proportions wise
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-07-2013, 12:19 PM
Heiko's Avatar
Heiko Heiko is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,025
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

I would add that in addition to the greater grip surface of a middy, you get a slightly longer site radius with it and some would say better functioning because of the longer gas tube.

I'm superficial and just like the look and feel of the middy.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-07-2013, 12:21 PM
Danomite556's Avatar
Danomite556 Danomite556 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Sun City
Posts: 189
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

^^^ All of the above for middy.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-07-2013, 12:23 PM
G21Shooter's Avatar
G21Shooter G21Shooter is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Central Coast
Posts: 3,577
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

I prefer mid length, slightly less recoil and muzzle rise, longer sight radius, and longer hand guards.

Also, mid length looks better with a 16 inch barrel.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-07-2013, 12:25 PM
Mossy Man's Avatar
Mossy Man Mossy Man is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 7,642
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Default

Carbines with 16" barrels are overgassed and are almost twice as much pressure than a rifle gas.

Mid is closer to the pressure of rifle gas

If you shoot thousands upon thousands of rounds, you may have earlier wear on certain parts with a carbine vs mid

Best reason to go mid is for real estate
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-07-2013, 2:57 PM
G21Shooter's Avatar
G21Shooter G21Shooter is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Central Coast
Posts: 3,577
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mossy Man View Post
Carbines with 16" barrels are overgassed and are almost twice as much pressure than a rifle gas.
One advantage of 16 inch carbine length systems is, due to them being over gassed, they do well with the cheap lightly loaded Russian ammo(Tula, Wolf, Brown/Sliver bear).
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-07-2013, 6:44 PM
Mossy Man's Avatar
Mossy Man Mossy Man is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 7,642
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by G21Shooter View Post
One advantage of 16 inch carbine length systems is, due to them being over gassed, they do well with the cheap lightly loaded Russian ammo(Tula, Wolf, Brown/Sliver bear).
That beibg said, mine has eaten every cheap tula ive fed it.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-07-2013, 12:48 PM
LAKings22's Avatar
LAKings22 LAKings22 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North Hollywood
Posts: 1,757
iTrader: 45 / 100%
Default

Mid Length looks better.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-07-2013, 1:15 PM
Arkangel's Avatar
Arkangel Arkangel is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Broke out of the PRK in 2016.
Posts: 4,458
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Another vote for middy.
__________________
_██_
(ಠ_ృ) riveting tale, chap.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-07-2013, 1:24 PM
guitar-nut's Avatar
guitar-nut guitar-nut is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Kern County
Posts: 694
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I hate how 16 inch inch carbines look. If it's got to be 16, then (in my opinion) it's got to be mid-length. Now if you were considering 14.5 as well, that would be a different story.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-07-2013, 1:31 PM
rob86 rob86 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 291
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

why not build your AR for what it was designed for and go with the 20". Yeah everyone has a 16" and 18" but not that many people have 20's. I Have both a 16 and a 20 and I really love the 20.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-07-2013, 1:41 PM
FMJBT's Avatar
FMJBT FMJBT is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Los Alamos, NM
Posts: 4,888
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Default

I tend to shoot heavier 77 grain bullets that cycle the action a bit harder than standard 55 or 62 grain ammo. I run mid length on my 16" uppers, but would prefer the longer intermediate length gas system to smooth them out a little. For the ammo I run, mid length would be better suited to a 14.5" barrel.

I'd only go carbine length on the gas system if I were building a short 10" -12" pistol barreled upper, or something really underpowered like a 300 BLK (pistol length gas would be better for the 300)
__________________
U.S. Navy (Retired) 1994-2015
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-07-2013, 1:40 PM
Sicarius's Avatar
Sicarius Sicarius is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 2,900
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

You will not notice a difference mid vs carbine. Supposidly the mid will bemore reliable because the dwell time for extraction is more ideal but I have never experienced one way or the other with either. The biggest benifit for the mid is the longer sight radius for iron sights. You can accomplish the same with a free float rail and carbine gas system. So in short, decide which sight system you want to use.
Kevin
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-07-2013, 2:19 PM
MrPlink's Avatar
MrPlink MrPlink is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Portland / East Bay
Posts: 12,532
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

The real estate argument assumes you're using drop in handguards.
That aside, I say middy.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-07-2013, 2:30 PM
CK_32's Avatar
CK_32 CK_32 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Orange County
Posts: 14,369
iTrader: 39 / 100%
Default

Being we're stuck at 16" barrels mid length.

I started with a carbine but the extra 2" of barrel it really makes the carbine look a bit awkward IMO. Also the mid length system is optimized for 16" barrels being the pressures.

Also offers slightly longer sight radius so that doesn't hurt. Won't make or break your rifle I shot about the same with both my carbine/mid length

Also the other main reason I switch from carbine to mid is because it offers more real estate to fully extent my support arm and lock out for my shooting position.

But as for the "less recoil" I do not feel any noticeable difference shooting my carbine vs middy upper with the same XM193/m855. Neither is a bad option just weight you pros and cons and what you want your rifle for.

Initial Build


Tacticool Phase


Magpul Phase


2nd build (later sold the carbine)



Current set up vv


Everything I listed besides hand guard area isn't noticeable to be 100% honest. That and the cleaner look. Other than those 2 things the carbine was fine
__________________
For Sale: AR500 Lvl III+ ASC Armor

What's Your Caliber??


My Youtube channel

Last edited by CK_32; 07-07-2013 at 7:17 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-07-2013, 6:48 PM
Guapo's Avatar
Guapo Guapo is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 49
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Mid length all the way!
__________________
"It could be worse, you could be f**ked." H.S.Thompson
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 07-08-2013, 1:14 PM
Gnome's Avatar
Gnome Gnome is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,693
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by moneymike View Post
Mid length just looks better with the 16" barrel, proportions wise
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heiko View Post
I would add that in addition to the greater grip surface of a middy, you get a slightly longer site radius with it and some would say better functioning because of the longer gas tube.

I'm superficial and just like the look and feel of the middy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAKings22 View Post
Mid Length looks better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guapo View Post
Mid length all the way!
I agree with all of the above. Form and function. Just wrapping up my 1st build. Been a long process. I went with a Midlentgh for several reasons. Gas system, real estate, and aesthetics.

I'm 6'4 with arms the length of a Condor's wingspan. When I move my support arm/hand forward on a carbine length handguard, I run out of handguard. For me, a midlentgh is a little more forgiving.

Plus, I personally don't like the look of a carbine. Too much naked barrel for my tastes.

YMMV.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum View Post
During Y2K my neighbor and I were talking and he said he had a basement full of water and canned food. He asked if I had stocked up and I said that I had. I told him I bought a 12 guage shotgun, a .308 rifle and several bricks of .22 ammo.

He is an anti-gun guy and he said. "Well, you can't eat ammunition". I replied with "When I'm starving to death with a case of ammunition, who's door do you think I am going to knock on?"
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 07-07-2013, 6:51 PM
crazyucbr's Avatar
crazyucbr crazyucbr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 794
iTrader: 153 / 100%
Default

Mid for looks. Now that I think about it. I dont even have a mid length rifle.
__________________
"get that evil thing out of the house"

FFLs/Store I support and recommend:
Don at Straightline Tactical in Anaheim
Steve at OC Firearms in Fountain Valley.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 07-08-2013, 9:06 AM
nephrodoc nephrodoc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Southern CA
Posts: 555
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Thanks for all the input. I will go with the midlength. I checked with spikes, and my T2 buffer will run just fine with the midlength upper.

Now I just need to find one at a good price.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-08-2013, 11:30 AM
CK_32's Avatar
CK_32 CK_32 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Orange County
Posts: 14,369
iTrader: 39 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nephrodoc View Post
Thanks for all the input. I will go with the midlength. I checked with spikes, and my T2 buffer will run just fine with the midlength upper.

Now I just need to find one at a good price.
BCM makes some good uppers. Been real happy with the 3 I've had.

Guys are all over the PSA uppers. But I've yet to see a full in detail spec sheet and don't fully believe they are the ONE company that found a way to make high end uppers for low end price.. They are cutting costs some where and no one can fully verify where or how or if they are full spec for cheaper.

But they run so on a budget it's a decent place to look if your interested in going PSA. But again I won't fully reccomend their uppers being I don't not had anyone been able to fully come out with a hard fact spec sheet and how they are selling "top notch" uppers for less.. way less than every other manufacture today. Being I helped run a business and have been around machining for a while it just doesn't happen like that.

So look at BravoCompanyUsa.com when they get uppers in. Or keep an eye on PSA id your on a budget.
__________________
For Sale: AR500 Lvl III+ ASC Armor

What's Your Caliber??


My Youtube channel
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 07-08-2013, 9:17 AM
eric_650 eric_650 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 376
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

not all manufacturers use the same gas port size, so that's another factor to look into.....
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 07-08-2013, 11:13 AM
AeroEngi's Avatar
AeroEngi AeroEngi is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 2,887
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

If you get a low profile gas block then the extra real estate/grip surface/sight radius argument is irrelevant.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 07-08-2013, 12:04 PM
teflondog's Avatar
teflondog teflondog is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 4,010
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

For my first build, I went with a midlength because everything I read online had me believe that it has dramatically less recoil. For my second build, I went with a carbine just to have something different. They're both equal in my experience. The carbine is lighter due to the shorter rail, but it also has less space to place my support hand.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by G. Michael Hopf
Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 07-08-2013, 12:31 PM
Just-in's Avatar
Just-in Just-in is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 2,176
iTrader: 18 / 100%
Default

Rifle!
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 07-08-2013, 12:54 PM
ohlone ohlone is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 346
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

midlength looks good and works for bayonet... carbine is good for using some fake can...
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 07-08-2013, 1:38 PM
nephrodoc nephrodoc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Southern CA
Posts: 555
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Thanks for the input, Primary Arms had them in stock, ordered the spikes midlength upper. My build will be all spikes.

Wow, I got shipping confirmationwithin the hour. Those guys are fast.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 07-08-2013, 2:26 PM
Arnelcheeze's Avatar
Arnelcheeze Arnelcheeze is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: In a van down by the river Los Angeles
Posts: 1,449
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

I have both a middy (14.5) and a carbine (16) and the middy seems smoother than the carbine. they also say since most carbine gas systems are over gassed they are more reliable and using low power ammo in a middy may get some cycling issues, never really tested that theory in my middy tho....
__________________
:“Disarm the people- that is the best and most effective
way to enslave them.”
― James Madison
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 07-08-2013, 2:51 PM
dung8604 dung8604 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 300
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CK_32 View Post
BCM makes some good uppers. Been real happy with the 3 I've had.

Guys are all over the PSA uppers. But I've yet to see a full in detail spec sheet and don't fully believe they are the ONE company that found a way to make high end uppers for low end price.. They are cutting costs some where and no one can fully verify where or how or if they are full spec for cheaper.

But they run so on a budget it's a decent place to look if your interested in going PSA. But again I won't fully reccomend their uppers being I don't not had anyone been able to fully come out with a hard fact spec sheet and how they are selling "top notch" uppers for less.. way less than every other manufacture today. Being I helped run a business and have been around machining for a while it just doesn't happen like that.

So look at BravoCompanyUsa.com when they get uppers in. Or keep an eye on PSA id your on a budget.
My guess? QC. They did the math, and figured it would cost less to replace/repair the ones that got through their QC, as opposed to hiring more/better inspectors.

Another guess would be less attention to detail in general, like the chamber on the barrel extension may still be sharp as opposed to being properly deburred or had the edges broken properly, or a parts kit was shipped without a pin or spring or something. This again is a quality issue. Also less people answering phones and e mails helps cut down costs too.

That being said, I have a PSA upper that I bought during last years black Friday sale, and I have been nothing but happy with it. They make good, not great, stuff, and you do get your moneys worth.

I'd say 90% of all people are happy with PSA's actual products, and 90% of all people are unhappy with the CS overall.

Sent from my One S using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:11 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy