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FFL's Forum For open discussion between FFLs and polite questions for FFLs. |
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#2
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I'm not positive they ever could. I may be wrong but I think they (feds) would have to have been listed in 830.1 or 830.2 PC, which they are not. I haven't looked at every subsection though to see if they are even given any authority in Ca to enforce state law's. Not that I have ever heard of a fed attempting to enforce state law.
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#3
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Same here... Feds cannot enforce state laws (traffic laws and etc..) I could be wrong thou..
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#4
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Yep, you are.......
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LASD Retired 1978-2011 NRA Life Member CRPA Life Member NRA Rifle Instructor NRA Shotgun Instructor NRA Range Safety Officer DOJ Certified Instructor |
#6
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Federal LE are considered peace officers in CA according to the penal code... forgot which section but there is one that talks about them like the way they refer to NV or AZ or OR LE when they are in hot pursuit across the border or out of state LE on official business or something like that. Unless that section has been deleted, it should still apply.
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#10
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Um, that's what I said. Most common example is USFS enforces state laws all the time. They can issue traffic cites and what impacts CalGuns members the most, is state firearms laws.
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LASD Retired 1978-2011 NRA Life Member CRPA Life Member NRA Rifle Instructor NRA Shotgun Instructor NRA Range Safety Officer DOJ Certified Instructor |
#12
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Nope, he tried but missed. He added "I could be wrong...." Which is what I was referring to.
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LASD Retired 1978-2011 NRA Life Member CRPA Life Member NRA Rifle Instructor NRA Shotgun Instructor NRA Range Safety Officer DOJ Certified Instructor |
#13
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Great, thanks. EEE in Mission Valley was the source of info. I'm glad they're wrong. Most of the pistols I've ever wanted were/are off roster.
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#14
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In addition, Some District Attorney Offices have MOUs for acceptance of specific, type-limited, State enforcement cases generated from Fed Agents. I've never seen 18 USC 13 used by the U.S. Attorney, as I believe that it refers to violation on Local/State Laws on Federal Property, (i.e. DOD Installations etc). AR15MAN |
#15
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It's really depends on what the powers granted by the state say, and typically used on exclusive jurisdictional property in the DoD. However, When I am in Texas or OK, I have full state authority. In AR, it's felony or above in my presence. In Cali, one of my academy brothers tells me all the time about stops he makes and scratched coupons under ACA. All our guys in Cali have to go to the PC832 class. Once done, they can make the stops and cite. But, it better be a good one or the boss is gonna look up from the paperwork and ask why you scratched the cite. They typically want to see some sort of nexus or public safety issue. I pitty the fool who busts out an equip violation.... He'll prolly be standing tall. |
#16
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I was talking to some of my fellow federal leo's and they told me their off roster orders were cancelled. They told me that their FFL informed them the AG came out and stated that since federal leo's are not recognized as peace officers in California they couldn't sell them the off roster gun. This sparked a debate at work on whether it was true or not.
Is there a letter issued by the CA AG stating such? I tried looking for it and couldn't find anything. If it exists can someone provide the link.
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Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. --Cesare, Marquis of Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishment" |
#18
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Technically, it's true though, since FLEO's aren't CA LEO's, they are not, by the language of the law, exempt from the roster. But the roster is a dumb idea anyway.
I don't doubt the AG would put something like that out though since Moonbeam did fire his parting shot about the RAW's before he left, and Kamala is not far from his political persuasion.
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#19
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If the AG did put something out like that then the AG Opinion should be published. Just as Moonbeam did for his parting shot..Harris would do the same.
I would like to see that letter..otherwise it could be fallout from those deputies purchasing off-roster firearms and turning around and selling off the guns immediately.. There was a case for that.. |
#21
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I agree on both parts, I was looking for some type of letter to confirm what is being said.
__________________
Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. --Cesare, Marquis of Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishment" |
#23
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Per DOJ Director, firearm dealers CAN NOT buy Non-Roster guns, due to the fact that FLEO's ID's do not state that they are California Peace Officers, however they still have a HSC Exception! This will hurt the LE stores business.... However to all FLEO's please understand that this is the STATES doing not the LE STORES.... We don't agree with it but we have to follow it it we want to keep our FFL's
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#24
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Is there an official letter from DOJ, or we talking he said/she said?
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"The police cannot protect the citizen at this stage of our development, and they cannot even protect themselves in many cases. It is up to the private citizen to protect himself and his family, and this is not only acceptable, but mandatory" Jeff Cooper |
#25
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Unless he is willing to write this and sign with his name it's all garbage.. Also the DOJ director doesn't have much weight unless AG agrees and signs the letter as the final authority.. |
#27
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Let us see what information has been shared with FFLs.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#28
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This section clearly states that Feds are not considered peace officers in CA.
830.8. (a) Federal criminal investigators and law enforcement officers are not California peace officers, but may exercise the powers of arrest of a peace officer in any of the following circumstances: ... These sections (830.1, 830.2, 830.3, 830.4, and 830.5) specifically list who CA does view as a peace officer. 830. Any person who comes within the provisions of this chapter and who otherwise meets all standards imposed by law on a peace officer is a peace officer, and notwithstanding any other provision of law, no person other than those designated in this chapter is a peace officer. As far as we can tell, this is what the DOJ is using to prohibit the sale of off roster handguns to Feds. |
#29
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Until an official letter/document is provided still calling FUD. Last edited by SoulStealer; 04-30-2013 at 6:44 AM.. |
#30
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We have the federal prisions up here in Victorville and Adelanto and I sell I off-roster pieces to to them all the time. Before every sale I do call the CaDoJ to make sure the flavor of the week has not changed.
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#31
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I need some input. Down in SanBernadino county the Sheriff at the time Penrod removed the authority of BLM to enforce california laws. There was a big row over grazing leases and such and the Sheriff stood on the side of the cattle grazers. I don't know if that is still in force but if they wanted to write state violations they had to call a Deputy Sheriff.
I just had lunch with a corrections officer at the state facility in Susanville and they are not allowed to buy off roster according to him. |
#32
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Sheriff Gary Penrod did in fact remove the law enforcement and arrest powers of the BLM within the county. It is a long story but the nut shell version is the BLM was siding with the Eco-Nazi groups regarding the grazing rights of the live stock owners and the Sheriff would have none of that. They still had their powers on BLM land but for any off BLM property LE action they had to call for a Deputy Sheriff to come handle it.
A few years ago, before he retired, he reinstated their powers with very strict guidelines of how they needed to conduct themselves or they would again lose their LE/arrest powers. The man had some balls and got calls from WDC mucks about it but he stood his ground.
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#35
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I have never had an issue with PF either but I have always wondered if they had a true understanding of that law and how it related to Feds. One of my purchases (Walther PPS) I didn't even know was a "off roster" , "unsafe" handgun. Whoops. So far it seems pretty safe to me. Last edited by StuckInTheP.R.O.Ca; 05-02-2013 at 3:52 AM.. |
#36
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The whole dam thing is nothing more than a shakedown of manufacturers and another hurdle that they can throw in front of prospective gun buyers. If there was any justice they would be indicted under RICO.
Last edited by StuckInTheP.R.O.Ca; 05-02-2013 at 3:47 AM.. |
#38
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The whole FFL transfer is also a shakedown since private sales are bound by law to find a FFL to conduct it, which inconveniences everyone since there aren't that many in L.A. which is conveniently located for everyone... but then they screwed them too by limiting their fee to ten bucks... so we all get screwed... along with the waiting period, which makes us all waste time and gas to drive back, and also limits us to only local purchases, unless we want to pay for shipping, which also incurs more inconvenience and huge expenses since there is no limit on that... CA just makes it as tough as possible. Not sure if it is motivated by hate of guns or love of bureaucracy or both.
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#39
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Feds no longer able to puchase non roster guns in CA?
What about pc 830.33? These are defined as peace officers in the state of California. Ive always wondered this if railroad cops were allowed to purchase off roster handguns since they do meet the requirements for a peace officer in California
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We need to ban water to stop the poor fat kids from drowning - Ted Nugent Last edited by Matt1984; 05-12-2013 at 7:51 PM.. |
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