Is this interpretation of dealing with sin good?

[Subotai]

I'm trying to get the process straight in my head, does this make sense?
-----------------------------

Sin is not initial thoughts, like noticing a beautiful woman, that is normal. If you continue with the thoughts, it becomes temptation. Then more continuing can become sin if you go down that path.

All will continue be tempted to sin. <added>You must catch yourself and replace temptation with Godly thoughts.<added> By becoming closer to God you put more emphasis on Him and He will move closer to you. This is what God wants. The sin and temptation will get less or have less "power" over you in this process. You may still revisit your sin like Paul. But, it should not take precedence over God and should weaken over time.

If you revisit your sin, do not beat yourself up over it, let it go and ask for forgiveness. If the enemy can't have your soul, he would gladly ruin your life instead.

Try to better yourself, let God handle it, continually turn to God and ask for His help, and don't worry about stress out over failings.

[RAMCLAP]

That's pretty good. However, I would not do the "don't worry about failings" thing. The closer you walk with God the more of a penitent life you live. The deeper the walk the more your sin is revealed to you, and thus more repentance is required. That said, it's not linear. A+B does not not equal C. It's God doing the work in you so that you become more and more conformed to the image of Christ. Not you doing for God. And that is where sin has less and less enchantment for you. But I's say you are well on the right track.

[Subotai]

Ok, made minor change.

[billvau]

Originally Posted by frankm

I'm trying to get the process straight in my head, does this make sense?
-----------------------------

Sin is not initial thoughts, like noticing a beautiful woman, that is normal. If you continue with the thoughts, it becomes temptation. Then more continuing can become sin if you go down that path.

All will continue to sin. By becoming closer to God you put more emphasis on Him and He will move closer to you. This is what God wants. The sin and temptation will get less or have less "power" over you in this process. You may still revisit your sin like Paul. But, it should not take precedence over God and should weaken over time.

If you revisit your sin, do not beat yourself up over it, let it go and ask for forgiveness. If the enemy can't have your soul, he would gladly ruin your life instead.

Try to better yourself, let God handle it, and don't worry about stress out over failings.

Close. Nice start! I'll just point out where you need changes:

"All will continue to sin." Not so. You can choose to stop going down the path at any point.

"By becoming closer to God you put more emphasis on Him and He will move closer to you." This is a nice, general Biblical truth, but is not specific enough when confronted with temptation and/or the subsequent sin. You must stop the temptation thought process AND you MUST REPLACE IT with godly thoughts - right at that moment. Biblical change is a put off AND put on process - always. Just putting off leaves a vacuum and you don't learn that you must turn to Christ and focus on Him. Colossians 3:1-3 is the key. You must always be working to set your mind on things above. Ephesians 4:25-28 are good examples of Biblical teaching of specific put offs/put ons. I love the thief - he stole with his hands, so Paul do Godly good with his hands! Always be specific and always deal with life moment-by-moment, thought-by-thought.

"Try to better yourself, let God handle it, " Know your weak areas, areas of temptation. Learn specific Scriptures - memorize them - concerning those areas. In your example, 1 Thes 4:1-8, 1 Cor. 6:15-20, Col. 3:5-7 are great starting places for sexual sin, but there are many, many others. You have to KNOW (Romans 6:1-10) that being united to Christ means that you died to sin with Christ and rose to a new life with Christ so are no longer a slave to sin, but a slave to righteousness. You now CAN obey and be like Christ. It is critical to understand your union with Christ to defeat sin and become more like Christ. It is the foundation of your life. It is your new identity. Christ is your life (Col. 3:4). "let God handle it" is not a Biblical truth. Fighting sin is first a thought battle (Col. 3:1-3 Set your MIND on things above, not on things of the earth...).

Make sense?
God bless,
Bill

[RAMCLAP]

Originally Posted by billvau

Close. Nice start! I'll just point out where you need changes:

"All will continue to sin." Not so. You can choose to stop going down the path at any point.

"By becoming closer to God you put more emphasis on Him and He will move closer to you." This is a nice, general Biblical truth, but is not specific enough when confronted with temptation and/or the subsequent sin. You must stop the temptation thought process AND you MUST REPLACE IT with godly thoughts - right at that moment. Biblical change is a put off AND put on process - always. Just putting off leaves a vacuum and you don't learn that you must turn to Christ and focus on Him. Colossians 3:1-3 is the key. You must always be working to set your mind on things above. Ephesians 4:25-28 are good examples of Biblical teaching of specific put offs/put ons. I love the thief - he stole with his hands, so Paul do Godly good with his hands! Always be specific and always deal with life moment-by-moment, thought-by-thought.

"Try to better yourself, let God handle it, " Know your weak areas, areas of temptation. Learn specific Scriptures - memorize them - concerning those areas. In your example, 1 Thes 4:1-8, 1 Cor. 6:15-20, Col. 3:5-7 are great starting places for sexual sin, but there are many, many others. You have to KNOW (Romans 6:1-10) that being united to Christ means that you died to sin with Christ and rose to a new life with Christ so are no longer a slave to sin, but a slave to righteousness. You now CAN obey and be like Christ. It is critical to understand your union with Christ to defeat sin and become more like Christ. It is the foundation of your life. It is your new identity. Christ is your life (Col. 3:4). "let God handle it" is not a Biblical truth. Fighting sin is first a thought battle (Col. 3:1-3 Set your MIND on things above, not on things of the earth...).

Make sense?
God bless,
Bill

You may want to clarify this Bill. Some could misunderstand your point.

[billvau]

Originally Posted by RAMCLAP

You may want to clarify this Bill. Some could misunderstand your point.

Help me with the clarification. I'm not seeing what you thinking I'm missing or should add. From the way I read his post, it sounded like he was saying that once you start down the path of temptation (e.g. looking at the woman), you will continue to sin. We know from Scripture that you can stop temptation before it turns to sin.

What do you think I missed?

Thanks much!
Bill

[Wordupmybrotha]

Temptation = an impulse to do an ungodly act.
Sin = committing the act physically or mentally. Includes premeditation of the act.

[Subotai]

Originally Posted by billvau

Help me with the clarification. I'm not seeing what you thinking I'm missing or should add. From the way I read his post, it sounded like he was saying that once you start down the path of temptation (e.g. looking at the woman), you will continue to sin. We know from Scripture that you can stop temptation before it turns to sin.

What do you think I missed?

Thanks much!
Bill

It was more of a definition of how sin develops from temptation, I didn't mean you will take that path every time.

[Subotai]

Changes made:

Originally Posted by frankm

Sin is not initial thoughts, like noticing a beautiful woman, that is normal. If you continue with the thoughts, it becomes temptation. Then more continuing can become sin if you go down that path.

All will be tempted to sin. You must catch yourself and replace temptation with Godly thoughts. By becoming closer to God you put more emphasis on Him and He will move closer to you. This is what God wants. The sin and temptation will get less or have less "power" over you in this process. You may still revisit your sin like Paul. But, it should not take precedence over God and should weaken over time.

If you revisit your sin, do not beat yourself up over it, let it go and ask for forgiveness. If the enemy can't have your soul, he would gladly ruin your life instead.

Try to better yourself, continually turn to God and ask for His help, and don't stress out over failings.

[billvau]

Originally Posted by frankm

It was more of a definition of how sin develops from temptation, I didn't mean you will take that path every time.

Great, thanks for the clarification.

The Bible uses the word "desire" often. It is OK to desire things. Desire a better job, pay raise, get married, etc. If God does not let you have your desire, you are OK with it and continue to obey/glorify God with your thoughts and actions. You can let go and focus on Jesus Christ and letting Him live His life through you (Gal. 2:19-20).

If, however, you focus on the desire, let it grow, it becomes what the Bible calls a "lust." Two aspects of a lust: it controls you (you have to have it) and you are willing to disobey God to get it. The key is that you chose to focus on the desire instead of keeping your mind set on things above. You don't just see the pretty woman in the hall and quickly get your eyes and mind off her and back on the Lord and the wife He's blessed you with. Instead, you notice where her desk is. Then you watch for her. Then, you conveniently reroute yourself past her desk instead of a direct route or even avoiding route. Then, you say hi when you now seemingly randomly cross paths, etc. You get the picture. Of course, your thoughts are probably 10 steps ahead of you...

Say you get your "lust." What happens then? Well, you worship the lust rather than God. It still controls you and you've gotten it sinfully. Now be prepared for the natural consequences and God's chastening to get you back on the path of holiness!

James covers it perfectly: James 4:1 What is the source of quarrels and conflicts among you? Is not the source your pleasures that wage war in your members? 2 You lust and do not have; so you commit murder. You are envious and cannot obtain; so you fight and quarrel. You do not have because you do not ask. 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures.

"pleasures" is from the root for hedonism. Lust is epithumea with the intensifier epi on the front! Envious is from the root for zealous! These are ALL very STRONG words - way beyond desires that you can let go of when God doesn't allow them. James goes on to show that these are so powerful, you may commit murder, fight and quarrel!

Again, other places to see this from, but James is so strongly-worded and graphic, that it's a great place to learn from

Paul's favorite verb is "walk." And, the Old Testament teaches this as a path with the need to watch/control your very next step! That starts with your very next thought. Cut off any/all earthbound thinking/dwelling and set your mind of things above. Get those Scriptures for your area of weakness and immediately recite them when temptation begins AND at the same time turn your path away from the temptation and start running!

Bill

[RAMCLAP]

Originally Posted by billvau

Help me with the clarification. I'm not seeing what you thinking I'm missing or should add. From the way I read his post, it sounded like he was saying that once you start down the path of temptation (e.g. looking at the woman), you will continue to sin. We know from Scripture that you can stop temptation before it turns to sin.

What do you think I missed?

Thanks much!
Bill

I had to read it twice. Some may take it to mean that you will not sin at all by shear force of will. I don't think that's what you were trying to say.

[Red-Osier]

Repent requires a 180 turn around from the old ways/path. Thus we need to fill the void left by the old ways with new good things, Put on the whole armor of Christ. Satan is a roaring lion waiting to devour, Laying stumbling blocks at our feet.
The revisting of sin is the dog returning to its vomit.

2nd Peter 1:4-11 is a teaching on what you need to replace the old ways with/ Add to your faith, Virtue, Knowledge, Temperance, Patience, Godliness, Brotherly Kindness and charity. Notice Godliness is down on the list, Becoming closer to God takes some work, Study and meditate on scripture helps me and of course going to worship.
Temptation is a struggle the more you work at fleeing from it the stronger you will become.

Good luck Brother!

-Red-

[zzyzx10]

Reading through all of these I think it's important to make two additions. I think in addition to Godly thoughts it's important to lay out a parallel line of questioning. In fact I'd argue that specifically it is how we question ourselves and the world that then determines the thoughts we have. To have thoughts before having questions I think leads to assumption or projection, which flattens or objectifies the world you live in and doesn't respect the divinity and truth inherent in all things. In other words, the path to godly thoughts lies In allowing the world to inform you. Don't have any premeditation or assumption to what these Godly or "good" thoughts are. This sort of thinking exists throughout every major religion.

Further, I think it's important to remember the violence and impracticality of shame. There is a difference between shame and repentance. Central to repentance is remorse, or sincere reflection and deep regret for a wrong committed. Shame is a hindrance to this process. It turns the subject of the remorse back to yourself when the focuse of your regret should be how you wronged others and the world around you, and then /through/ them you understand yourself and your actions. Remember that you are human, and while this is not an excuse to let yourself run wild, it is a truth that you are only capable of so much virtue. Only a God is capable of perfect virtue. We are simply capable of reaching for it. And it is in striving for virtue, this never ending process that we arrive at a virtuous ethic and lifestyle. Virtues are balanced between two extremes. For example courage lies between foolhardiness and cowardice.

As bill Bay pointed out, Paul says walk. The curious life is an active and constant struggle, yet it is a very human one. Sin will always be a necessary part of virtue as we check ourselves endlessly (again this is not an excuse!). Although we strive for great things in our path, we are nonetheless grounded by our humanity. Paul says walk, not fly. Remember, the miracle of Jesus is that he is as much man as he is God.