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  #1  
Old 12-04-2018, 6:50 PM
1911man 1911man is offline
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Default Cowboy ammo question

Why is cowboy ammo more expensive that regular plinking ammo? Second question. Can a person load 357 magnum cases to 800 fps.? When I use 38 specials my rifle has some problems cycling, that is why I am asking about the magnum case, they cycle better. Why do some manufacturers load with light bullets and 158 grain heavy bullets, with the velocity the same? Recoil? I am shooting a carbine.
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Old 12-04-2018, 7:00 PM
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I don't know about a carbine, but I loaded some 158g .38SPL with Trail Boss for my J-frame snubby. I thought my wife might find the recoil more manageable.

While they were pleasant to shoot, the bullets were tumbling and keyholing the target at about 15 yds.
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  #3  
Old 12-04-2018, 7:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911man View Post
Why is cowboy ammo more expensive that regular plinking ammo? Second question. Can a person load 357 magnum cases to 800 fps.? When I use 38 specials my rifle has some problems cycling, that is why I am asking about the magnum case, they cycle better. Why do some manufacturers load with light bullets and 158 grain heavy bullets, with the velocity the same? Recoil? I am shooting a carbine.
I hope your not firing 38 specials in a 357 magnum!. Because of the shorter case you can get lead spalling from a miniscule change in alignment, can cause catastrophic failure and danger of exploding your chamber.

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Old 12-04-2018, 7:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbybutler.rb View Post
I hope your not firing 38 specials in a 357 magnum!. Because of the shorter case you can get lead spalling from a miniscule change in alignment, can cause catastrophic failure and danger of exploding your chamber.
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If the cylinder was that far out of time, it wouldn't matter whether you were firing .38s or .357s.

Shooting .38s out of a .357 revolver is a very common thing.
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Old 12-04-2018, 8:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbybutler.rb View Post
I hope your not firing 38 specials in a 357 magnum!. Because of the shorter case you can get lead spalling from a miniscule change in alignment, can cause catastrophic failure and danger of exploding your chamber.

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Does the maker say it can shoot .38?
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Old 12-04-2018, 8:09 PM
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I am using a marlin 18Ē.. I donít reload yet. Why donít shooter just use 357 brass loaded down? Because the brass is cheaper?
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Old 12-04-2018, 8:24 PM
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I load all my 38 spl in magnum cases, been doing this for many years.
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Old 12-04-2018, 8:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911man View Post
Why is cowboy ammo more expensive that regular plinking ammo?
I'm assuming because it's specialty ammo made in smaller quantities.
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Old 12-04-2018, 8:56 PM
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revolver wise i do the same as well. 38 spl loads on 357 brass.
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Old 12-04-2018, 8:56 PM
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I’ll venture to say that more .38 Special has been fired in .357 chambers than the .357 magnum has. The above post #3 is rediculous
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Old 12-04-2018, 9:07 PM
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I've been reloading light loads in 357 rather than 38 cases for a Marlin 1894 for several years so I can use cheaper plated bullets instead of full metal jacket and still have good feeding. One of the benefits of reloading. I also load some rifle loads too hot to shoot in my S&W 686 so need to keep them labeled clearly.
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Old 12-04-2018, 9:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple765 View Post
I'm assuming because it's specialty ammo made in smaller quantities.
This ^
And the fact that SASS people usually spend money to be period correct.
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  #13  
Old 12-04-2018, 10:03 PM
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In loading the 357 case the extra air inside, and low powder charge doesn’t effect the shot? So you can’t use gas check bullets in sass? So what is the difference in shooting light loads and heavier bullets? Just preference?

Last edited by 1911man; 12-04-2018 at 10:06 PM.. Reason: Info
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Old 12-05-2018, 6:21 AM
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It's perfectly safe to fire .38 special in a .357 revolver, the only thing that might need to be said is "clean your damn gun".
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Old 12-05-2018, 7:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbybutler.rb View Post
I hope your not firing 38 specials in a 357 magnum!. Because of the shorter case you can get lead spalling from a miniscule change in alignment, can cause catastrophic failure and danger of exploding your chamber.

Sent from my SM-T837V using Tapatalk
^^^ FUD
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  #16  
Old 12-05-2018, 8:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbybutler.rb View Post
I hope your not firing 38 specials in a 357 magnum!. Because of the shorter case you can get lead spalling from a miniscule change in alignment, can cause catastrophic failure and danger of exploding your chamber.

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Wrong ^^^ This is Very common to do .
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Old 12-05-2018, 8:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911man View Post
Why is cowboy ammo more expensive that regular plinking ammo? Second question. Can a person load 357 magnum cases to 800 fps.? When I use 38 specials my rifle has some problems cycling, that is why I am asking about the magnum case, they cycle better. Why do some manufacturers load with light bullets and 158 grain heavy bullets, with the velocity the same? Recoil? I am shooting a carbine.
It’s essentially a speciality load since it’s down loaded for the lower FPS, I’ve used some cowboy choice ammo for sass, it’s pretty good but I generally roll my own.

The people will use heavier bullets for knockdown targets but in general people are using small light rounds at as close to the minimum power factor as possible for no recoil.

As far as it cycling for lever actions, there is a minimum recommended oal to hit that generally solves that issue assuming the shape of the round isn’t a problem for the feed ramp.

Last edited by smashycrashy; 12-05-2018 at 8:41 AM..
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Old 12-05-2018, 8:45 AM
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Originally Posted by TrailerparkTrash View Post
^^^ FUD
Given that he's a newbie I was hoping it was a failed attempt at sarcasm.
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Old 12-05-2018, 11:12 AM
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I have been firing .38spl in my .357 revolvers and lever actions for 40+ years now. I dare say I have fired more .38's in them than .357. My daughter grew up shooting powderpuff .38spl loads in my .357's.

Its very common knowledge that its perfectly safe to do.

Now to the OP's question about Cowboy ammo being more expensive, its because its speciality ammo, its just that they have to set up a run for cowboy ammo and so they charge more, ok that is just a sarcastic guess, but probably not far from the truth, hey Bob, lets call it Cowboy and charge more...that is called marketing.

I am not sure you can get down to a .38spl load in a .357 case for your carbine, that might be too low with too much space in the case and not a lot of powder in the case, but I would try it with a powder that fills the case like TrailBoss and I bet you can get close.
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Old 12-05-2018, 1:52 PM
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Plus or minus 3.2 gr. of Trailboss under a 158 lead bullet (eta: in a .357 case) is pretty light and for sure lighter than a factory .38. When I load in a .357 case that is what I do. Generally I just load everything in .38 brass as it's just more easy to come by.
If you're competitive or just a gamer you can go with super light 100grn bullets for a real mouse fart load.
As has been said cowboy loads are low run specialty ammo so the mfr charges more.

Last edited by Sputnik; 12-05-2018 at 5:22 PM..
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  #21  
Old 12-05-2018, 3:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FISHNFRANK View Post
Iíll venture to say that more .38 Special has been fired in .357 chambers than the .357 magnum has. The above post #3 is rediculous
For the win.
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Old 12-05-2018, 3:45 PM
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I forgot who makes them, but for the rifles, there is a longer lead bullet that will feed way better when using .38 cases in a magnum rifle. I think they are called Snakebights!? Not sure if there is a benefit to using them in the pistols.
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Old 12-05-2018, 3:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911man View Post
In loading the 357 case the extra air inside, and low powder charge doesnít effect the shot? So you canít use gas check bullets in sass? So what is the difference in shooting light loads and heavier bullets? Just preference?
I load Hornady XTP 125gr bullets with 5.0gr of Win-231 powder and Magnum Primers in 357 Magnum cases.
This is a nice shooting 38 spl load in a revolver and like a 22LR feel in my Ruger 77/357 carbine.
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Old 12-05-2018, 6:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911man View Post
Why is cowboy ammo more expensive that regular plinking ammo? Second question. Can a person load 357 magnum cases to 800 fps.? When I use 38 specials my rifle has some problems cycling, that is why I am asking about the magnum case, they cycle better. Why do some manufacturers load with light bullets and 158 grain heavy bullets, with the velocity the same? Recoil? I am shooting a carbine.
What is the model of your .357 magnum carbine/ rifle????

I have a Winchester 94AE and a Marlin 1894 both lever action rifles/ carbines chambered in .357 magnum, and I have no issues in shooting or cycling .38 specials (FMJ, SP, SWC, or lead round nose) in either one of them.
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Old 12-10-2018, 8:59 PM
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I am on a the 11 day wait for my marlin made in 1981. It is in almost perfect condition. I was thinking of not shooting it and keep it a safe queen because of the condition of the rifle. Or should I just shoot it? Something I heard yesterday, if you load 357s to mouse fart loads your accuracy will suffer? Is that true? Because of the extra air space in the case.
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Old 12-10-2018, 9:14 PM
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In cowboy shooting you're going for time on fairly big, fairly close steel targets. You're not shooting bullseye. My accuracy has always been more than adequate for the requirement but I've never felt the need to go for the absolute minimum loads.
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Old 12-10-2018, 10:26 PM
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Lead only?
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Old 12-11-2018, 9:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911man View Post
I am on a the 11 day wait for my marlin made in 1981. It is in almost perfect condition. I was thinking of not shooting it and keep it a safe queen because of the condition of the rifle. Or should I just shoot it? Something I heard yesterday, if you load 357s to mouse fart loads your accuracy will suffer? Is that true? Because of the extra air space in the case.
There are powders that have been specially made for reduced loads, specifically to take up extra volume. Lot's of people use common powders without any problems. Check out the SASS Forum for all the reloading info you could ever want on CAS loads.
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Old 12-11-2018, 2:46 PM
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Lead only?
For SASS/CAS? Yes, lead only. They can be poly coated though, just no copper jackets, washes, plating or gas checks.
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Old 12-11-2018, 7:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
For SASS/CAS? Yes, lead only. They can be poly coated though, just no copper jackets, washes, plating or gas checks.
Why? Cuz copper is not period accurate?
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Old 12-11-2018, 8:06 PM
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Because you're shooting steel at maybe 5-10 yards. You don't want copper jackets coming back at you plus it'd be hard on the targets.
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Old 12-12-2018, 4:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Sky_DiveR View Post
Why? Cuz copper is not period accurate?
There is a max FPS in SASS, but no min FPS. The SASS Rulebook says fast is fun and missing is not fun. The targets are static steel only. The distance to the targets has evolved into pistol targets at less than 5 yards and rifle targets at less than 10. Lead bullets barely fragment because they're downloaded to 4 or 500 fps. Jacketed bullets would barely deform at all and would be bouncing everywhere. It's already a huge problem getting blasted by fragments as it is. Every CAS match I've been too 4 or 5 people are bleeding and picking pieces of lead out of their skin.
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