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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#203
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Happy now?
Never ending and never advancing.
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"RIGHT POWER!" ----------------------------- |
#204
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Stop trying to do the anti's job for them. |
#205
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Like getting a drivers license, voter registration has zero to do with acquiring a gun. I'll ask again...why are states with strict gun laws notable for high rates of gun crime? Simply because criminals do not obey gun laws, existing or new. You can also note that states with the highest rates of gun crime are typically controlled by democratic majorities at the city, county, and state levels. Try posting your "reasonable, common-sense" background check stupidity on any other gun forum and see how long it takes you to get banned. Quote:
That said, don't attempt to get us to believe that everyone uses an ffl to obtain a weapon. Those of us who are law abiding can and may make the choice of a private party transaction not involving a licensee; not to mention carry a concealed weapon without a California CCW license. That is not necessarily my recommendation(s). Quote:
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True wealth is time. Time to enjoy life. Life's journey is not to arrive safely in a well preserved body, but rather to slide in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "holy schit...what a ride"!! Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in. Mark Twain A man's soul can be judged by the way he treats his dog. Charles Doran Last edited by -hanko; 04-26-2018 at 5:18 PM.. |
#206
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Infringement is not solely defined as the elimination of the right or even a partial elimination of the right. It is not sophistry, but simple definition, to point out that "infringement" is: A breaking into; a trespass or encroachment upon; a violation of a law, regulation, contract, or right.
You have to address ALL of those questions, not simply whether the right would be eliminated or even partially so. Bear in mind, regardless of what actually happens in Court, your answers will also have to address the 'strict scrutiny' standard already cited; even if not in Court, then in the public's perception. |
#207
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The fundamental disagreement we have is that I and most others here would at the least require the state to demonstrate a public safety benefit with respect to imposing limits on rights. The UBC scheme you suggest would prohibit the private, non-commercial transfer of firearms between all non-licensed individuals and a prohibition on 18 to 20 year olds exercising a right to self defense in the home as afforded by Heller, yet no quantifiable public safety result is offered. That is the crux of the matter. Without substantiation of a public benefit you prefer the tie goes to the state, that the individual must prove they are worthy. This amounts to a prior restraint on the exercise of the right, a version of guilty until proven innocent. People would not accept such a situationwith respect to the 1st, 4th, 5th or 6th. I'm not sure why we'd propose it for the 2nd. Actually, we do accept it for the 1st and that may be a reason why it's not in the best of condition. |
#208
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#209
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"No personal computer will ever have gigabytes of RAM" - Scott Nudds |
#210
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Do you think that repeating the same erroneous statement over and over again finally makes it correct. Run, don't walk to the nearest library and look up "Argument by Repetition."
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#211
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#212
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Self-enforcing: without the UBC-generated anonymous approval code, the FFL will deny your purchase.
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#213
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Even in California, a good percentage of the population has to drive for an hour or more to reach an FFL. Outside of California? Drive several hours each way? Not a "mild inconvenience"... more than a "major inconvenience"... absolutely a serious infringement.
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- Rich |
#214
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If there is no registration, there is no way to enforce the law, and guns will continue to be bought and sold in the Walmart parking lot, just as they are today. What is Oregon's compliance on the new UBC law? 10%? 20%?
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- Rich |
#215
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That’s not enforcement. That’s simply a denied purchase. How do you actually enforce violations? Again, resources are required to enforce laws, not just enact them which is practically free. Very few 4473 violations are ever prosecuted under the current system, so please, explain. Still waiting for days for the answer to this and other questions you’ve conveniently ignored. But you’d have to go back pages to find those. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
#216
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Since all citizens are of some race/color or another, this applies not only to free slaves, but to all citizens. It is a right as clearly stated. Quote:
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#217
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You haven't commented on what to do about the 300 million or so unregistered guns that would exist in a UBC world - do you consider a UBC system that has such a gap valuable law? If I supported gun control I'd consider it a substantial deficiency. If, to use the weak sort of logic that goes with it, we required "national cell phone registration" but let slip all the phones currently in use - I'd say that's not much of a system. Been a while since my college days, but I learned that unenforceable laws or those routinely ignored encourage disrespect or injury to the rule of law and that it is to be avoided. 300 million - that's alot of little loopholes. Suffice to say some law abiding individuals would not get their guns - the 18 to 20 year old, perhaps those who can't make it to a gun store or with limited funds. I wonder where an older person in San Francisco might be able to lawfully get a gun? Or a person who may be ill, weak or homebound. Tough luck for them I suppose. |
#218
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The next grenade can be diffused too. But go ahead. Keep throwing them.
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#219
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The problem is PPT, which are unregulated, and unregulatable. Criminals don't care about the law. Even if "Joe Law Abiding Citizen" is willing to comply with the infringement and drive 3 hours to meet his buyer at an FFL.... "Joe Gang Banger" is going to continue obtaining and disposing of guns like he does today. UBC will have ZERO functional impact on crime. It will actually increase crime by making many otherwise law abiding citizens unknowing criminals because they will continue to BST without being aware of the UBC law.
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- Rich |
#220
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What are you talking about? Throwing grenades? If your proposed solution is so great then answer the question instead of dodging questions you know don’t have a good answer. How do you enforce the law when people do not follow the law and transfer a firearm without utilizing a background check? How? Not the FFL, but a criminal intent on buying a weapon illegally, regardless of how they circumvent the system. You won’t answer it though. Because you know the answer undermines your entire argument and you’ve got too much ego invested. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
#221
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https://democracyjournal.org/magazin...right-to-vote/ Let's set that aside though, it's complicated enough for a separate thread. Going through an FFL prohibits law abiding 18 to 20 year olds from exercising their rights under Heller. It may as a practical matter infringe on others I mentioned elsewhere who may lawfully possess firerms. To eliminate firearms sales all a city would need to do is zone them out - how far should a person have to travel to exercise a right? With respect to "checking an approval code" - OK. But a record of the transaction must be kept and it must be readily available to law enforcement. Because as I and others have stated, compliance with UBC transaction requirements by persons allowed by law to possess firearms is the issue. Not that you and I are law abiding, but that I checked out you (or vice versa) when doing the transaction. That, and those 300 million already out there guns, is where it falls apart. |
#222
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#223
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I'm out hunting, how does Fish & Game verify that the 1930's made Browning Auto 5 bought by my father was given to me in 1976, or that I bought it after UBC went into effect without complying with the law? I get into a car accident and am carrying an older Smith 36 - how does the cop verify the gun was aquired lawfully by me before UBC or illegally at the local gun club after UBC? Conversely, a bad guy bought his gun after UBC but asserts "I've had it for 10 years" - how does the cop show otherwise? There are thousands of permutations on the above and along with my "black market" observation causes a problem for UBC. Last edited by dfletcher; 04-26-2018 at 9:43 PM.. |
#224
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You calling something erroneous does not make it so. Run, don't walk, to your nearest library and have someone read you the definition of the word "opinion".
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NRA lifetime member 2AF Defender member When did I go from being a "citizen" to a "taxpayer"? Jon Lovitz: ‘I can’t wait to go to a hospital run by the DMV!’ Peace, love, and heavy weapons. Sometimes you have to be insistent." - David Lee Roth |
#225
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I'll give you an example. Rosa Parks could ride the same bus as everyone else, get there at the same time as everyone else and enjoy the ride on the same quality seat as everyone else. She just didn't want to *walk* a few steps. That's all. A few steps. If someone claimed that they didn't want to do UBC because they didn't want to *walk* a few steps to the computer, would that pass your giggle test? In real world, infringement doesn't work based on your giggle test, but a set of legal standards that are well defined. Even the dictionary definition of "infringement" says: "2.the action of limiting or undermining something," not "banning" and certainly not "preventing." I've given you a legal case, I've given you a real life example, I've given you a common language definition. Please feel free to quadruple down. Just remember that this thread and these posts are not for me or you to win or lose the argument, but for close to three thousand readers who have seen the posts and had a chance to read.
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NRA Benefactor Member |
#226
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Reminds me of ACLU stating "we disagree with the decision in Heller, we maintain that 2A is a collective right." At least they get paid by their donors for such a statement...
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NRA lifetime member 2AF Defender member When did I go from being a "citizen" to a "taxpayer"? Jon Lovitz: ‘I can’t wait to go to a hospital run by the DMV!’ Peace, love, and heavy weapons. Sometimes you have to be insistent." - David Lee Roth |
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#229
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NRA Benefactor Member |
#230
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And I clean up after a number of horses every morning. Quote:
You are right-on about his "here's what I think we need to do" stuff having no rhyme nor reason for helping to lower crimes involving firearms. I've asked twice with no response as to why cities and states with high gun violence issues are all run by Democrat / Libtard / Progressives from a city council up to, in most cases, the governor and legislature. No answer, as the question may be perhaps a bit touchy...or maybe even as terrible as a "personal attack". Well said. TKS
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True wealth is time. Time to enjoy life. Life's journey is not to arrive safely in a well preserved body, but rather to slide in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "holy schit...what a ride"!! Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in. Mark Twain A man's soul can be judged by the way he treats his dog. Charles Doran |
#231
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#232
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NRA lifetime member 2AF Defender member When did I go from being a "citizen" to a "taxpayer"? Jon Lovitz: ‘I can’t wait to go to a hospital run by the DMV!’ Peace, love, and heavy weapons. Sometimes you have to be insistent." - David Lee Roth |
#233
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However, I don't think eswrite is one of the them. I think he is trying to help, albeit from our perspective, in a stubborn, Don Quixote "tilting at windmills" sort of way. Consider: His link provides his real name, or at the very least, his DBA moniker: http://www.eduardosuastegui.com/abou...rdo-suastegui/ Most Anti-Gun Left Wing Shills/Trolls hide their identity, not Post it. Following the Internet Breadcrumbs, eswrite, aka author Eduardo Suastegui has made statements like: Quote:
https://medium.com/@eduardoauthor/is...s-eee0e11db44b And This: Anti-Gun Liberals Have Failed to Protect Our Kids. It’s Time to Try Something New. GUNGUY TV https://gunguy.tv/2018/03/09/anti-gu...something-new/ Quote:
That doesn't sound like a disguised Anti-Gun Progressive to me, it sounds like someone who is concerned about Gun Rights, but has also absorbed some of the subtle Anti Gun bias the media spews out. Many on this board have studied the issue for years, if not decades, and when someone comes along that has been inundated with Anti Gun Propaganda for Decades, I think its hard for them to adjust to Actual Reality, as provided by the many Senior Members posting here. Its still a good exercise for all concerned, and as always, the real benefit is to the thousands of people reading this thread. Although at this point, I don't think there is very much more to say except maybe the proverbial "agree to disagree". Noble Last edited by Noble Cause; 04-27-2018 at 2:12 AM.. Reason: forgot to post link |
#234
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Another quote I am going to Abscond with for Future Use ... Noble |
#235
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NRA lifetime member 2AF Defender member When did I go from being a "citizen" to a "taxpayer"? Jon Lovitz: ‘I can’t wait to go to a hospital run by the DMV!’ Peace, love, and heavy weapons. Sometimes you have to be insistent." - David Lee Roth |
#236
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It's not erroneous. You're just too stupid to realize it. Like all anti gun people, you're not very smart.
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#237
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NRA Benefactor Life Member NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle & Refuse To Be A Victim Instructor American Marksman Training Group Visit our American Marksman Facebook Page Diamond Bar CCW Facebook Page NRA Memberships at Discounted fee |
#238
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Also, there is no reasonable compromise with the anti gun people. There just isn't. Name one compromise reached that expanded our rights rather than restricting them. |
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#240
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Here's one bread crumb for you (the one that elaborates on my sig block): Needs, Rights, and the iPhone vs. the AR-15 {Got a thumbs-up from Dana Loesch, BTW}
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Last edited by eswrite; 04-27-2018 at 7:47 AM.. |
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