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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #41  
Old 01-15-2019, 8:34 PM
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As many have said, in this thread and others, bugging out without a place to go will get you killed. I have a place to go, and it is rural and well stocked, but it is over a thousand miles away. I have enough fuel to get there, but I don't think I can count on roads being drive-able or safe, and if I was to walk it would probably take a month, I can't carry enough to survive for a month, and drinking from someone else's spring or killing game in someone else's area could get me killed. So yeah, even though I have a place to go, I am staying put until I determine that I will die, and then I will leave and hope for the best. I have a plan in place for either or both.
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  #42  
Old 01-15-2019, 8:52 PM
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As many have said, in this thread and others, bugging out without a place to go will get you killed. I have a place to go, and it is rural and well stocked, but it is over a thousand miles away. I have enough fuel to get there, but I don't think I can count on roads being drive-able or safe, and if I was to walk it would probably take a month, I can't carry enough to survive for a month, and drinking from someone else's spring or killing game in someone else's area could get me killed. So yeah, even though I have a place to go, I am staying put until I determine that I will die, and then I will leave and hope for the best. I have a plan in place for either or both.
Good points, but you leave prior to it getting to this point, watch, pay attention and be decisive

My wife thinks I only have 3 guns
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  #43  
Old 01-15-2019, 9:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ChuckD View Post
As many have said, in this thread and others, bugging out without a place to go will get you killed. I have a place to go, and it is rural and well stocked, but it is over a thousand miles away. I have enough fuel to get there, but I don't think I can count on roads being drive-able or safe, and if I was to walk it would probably take a month, I can't carry enough to survive for a month, and drinking from someone else's spring or killing game in someone else's area could get me killed. So yeah, even though I have a place to go, I am staying put until I determine that I will die, and then I will leave and hope for the best. I have a plan in place for either or both.
Good points, Being backed up to the woods I have a well stocked location I could walk to in 30 minutes, But living there over a month would not be ideal, likely (depending on events) the first 2-4 weeks would be spent hunkered down at home. If things get real rough we go to the bunker.

But once things quiet down in 30-60 days (city folk run out of fuel,food and water) I will be on the HF assessing where to relocate too.
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  #44  
Old 01-15-2019, 11:50 PM
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I'm going down guns blazing defending my hoard of mac n' cheese.
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  #45  
Old 01-16-2019, 8:16 AM
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LA Riots! SHTF your cozy home may get tourched. The Koreans formed a group and held their ground. They did break several laws, but no Koreans were arrested and jailed.
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  #46  
Old 01-16-2019, 8:57 AM
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Originally Posted by waveslayer View Post
Good points, but you leave prior to it getting to this point, watch, pay attention and be decisive

My wife thinks I only have 3 guns
True, the best time to "bug out" is before anything bad happens, but that is not always feasible.

I am working on moving to a large rural property in a state that is more reasonable in laws and regulations, has available water, and where I can still find employment to provide for myself & my family. I have been on this path for a year, and expect it will take another year (minimum) to finish the process. The plan I have is in case anything happens between now & then. Just dropping everything and moving right now is not a good option for many reasons.

My wife knows about all my guns, and she knows how to use them.
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  #47  
Old 01-16-2019, 9:09 AM
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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
Good points, Being backed up to the woods I have a well stocked location I could walk to in 30 minutes, But living there over a month would not be ideal, likely (depending on events) the first 2-4 weeks would be spent hunkered down at home. If things get real rough we go to the bunker.

But once things quiet down in 30-60 days (city folk run out of fuel,food and water) I will be on the HF assessing where to relocate too.
HAM Radio is part of my plan too. I think it will be incredibly valuable to be able to get news and knowledge, and also to communicate with people I know for strategy discussions and to request help if necessary.
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  #48  
Old 01-16-2019, 9:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ChuckD View Post
True, the best time to "bug out" is before anything bad happens, but that is not always feasible.

I am working on moving to a large rural property in a state that is more reasonable in laws and regulations, has available water, and where I can still find employment to provide for myself & my family. I have been on this path for a year, and expect it will take another year (minimum) to finish the process. The plan I have is in case anything happens between now & then. Just dropping everything and moving right now is not a good option for many reasons.

My wife knows about all my guns, and she knows how to use them.
Very smart man. You will survive.
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  #49  
Old 01-16-2019, 9:59 AM
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People talking about preparing to "Bug out" is nothing new. I've thought about it and I really think that at least for me, it's a worse case scenario. I've got a well stocked, warm and cozy home, my stuff is here, tools and gear, more than would be easily transported. I have neighbors that though we aren't good friends, I suspect that they aren't nut cases. I'm pretty sure that in a worse case scenario I could work them to keep all of our homes safe, rather than trying to go it alone.
Bugging out to the woods when society is in turmoil seems far less than optimal to me. Sure, I have good camping gear and I could bug out if necessary but unless my house is on fire I'd rather bug in.
So, for you guys that "Bug out" is plan A, please share your reasoning.
When I lived in LA bug out was plan A, B, and C, but now I'll shelter in place. This is a small town and I have all my family on farms and other rural properties within 12 miles or so, which is also well within range of the PHEV battery.

I'll get a solar whole house UPS later and I think we will be good.
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  #50  
Old 01-16-2019, 1:22 PM
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I don't consider myself a prepper at all. It's just a fun mental game. But I'd recommend reading Fernando Ferfal Aguirre's book THE MODERN SURVIVAL MANUAL. He lived through the collapse in Argentina. I recall he said that, in their case (political instability & hyper inflation), bugging in was best. Those roaming gangs hit the outskirts & rural areas hardest because there was no security, no police and fewer neighbors around to help. Crime was bad in the city but it was worse in the rural areas. Even people's ability to get from the urban areas to the rural towns was impacted due to criminal checkpoints along the roads. Certainly made me think twice about loading up anything of value and running for the hills when I consider that I may not make it up there at all, let alone with my family safe and all our supplies.

If the problem is local, then bugging out is a valid plan. But if it's systemic, national or widespread, then bugging in becomes a lot more attractive. Often, the most damaging risks are those you never see coming. The devil you know...
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  #51  
Old 01-16-2019, 10:42 PM
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Bug in or out really doesn’t matter. It is where ever you can survive the best. Honestly 3 weeks is the magic survival timeframe for the first part of surviving equation. By then you will either be dead or alive. Government services will be back or not. First 3 weeks is roughly a 90% casualty rate without government services in urban areas. Water power medical police fire will all be gone. Without that you have no food or potable water. Diseases will run rampant, food will be scarce, clean water will be nonexistent, sewage will cover the streets, the amount of violence will be unprecedented. Prepping is great but remember people who didn’t prepare will do anything to survive. Honestly whether you bug in or out it will be a death sentence for a majority of people.
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  #52  
Old 01-17-2019, 7:39 AM
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Bugging in should nearly always be plan A because it is typically where you have greater resources and greater control. But for situations where that won't work you need a plan B.

In this state we've seen entire towns incinerated. That is a rational justification to "bug out". Lots of things can make just riding things out in the comfort of your living room a non-option. Such as a flood for example.

Having said that, the " Batman in the boondocks" idea of running into the woods with a gun and a backpack to live off the land is a really poor strategy for reasons that have no doubt received a sound flogging by previous posters which I'll not repeat here.

Having a second home in an alternate location (vacation home or cabin) is ideal but few can afford that option. Having a camper or RV that can be used as a mobile retreat is more practical for most. You can live with full hookups and all the modern conveniences, or go off-grid using solar and/or generator power. You can find a temporary safe harbor in a friend's or relative's driveway and run a hose and extension cord without wearing out your welcome too badly or couch-surfing.

Go read "listening to Katrina" online. Bugging out is only a tactic... which should be part of an over-all strategy that sees you leaving a once-stable situation that has become non-viable, and arriving eventually in a new safe,stable and normal situation.

Keep in mind, there are always exceptions. Many people fleeing the fires in vehicles were stalled on the road in traffic. Some folks had to bail out of their cars and run on foot with just what they could carry. You need a small pack with just bare essentials in case you have to run for your life. It's rarely the best choice but sometimes it is the ONLY choice. Some folks couldn't do that or waited too long and many charred skeletons in burned out cars grimly remind us all of the importance of having the flee on foot option.
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  #53  
Old 01-17-2019, 10:20 AM
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We have seen the devastation of Forest Fires, don't think for a minute that the criminal element won't set the forest on fire just because they can get away with it. The Criminal Mind is pathological.
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  #54  
Old 01-17-2019, 12:44 PM
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We have seen the devastation of Forest Fires, don't think for a minute that the criminal element won't set the forest on fire just because they can get away with it. The Criminal Mind is pathological.
So true... bug OUT
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  #55  
Old 01-18-2019, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by kayaker View Post
People talking about preparing to "Bug out" is nothing new. I've thought about it and I really think that at least for me, it's a worse case scenario. I've got a well stocked, warm and cozy home, my stuff is here, tools and gear, more than would be easily transported. I have neighbors that though we aren't good friends, I suspect that they aren't nut cases. I'm pretty sure that in a worse case scenario I could work them to keep all of our homes safe, rather than trying to go it alone.
Bugging out to the woods when society is in turmoil seems far less than optimal to me. Sure, I have good camping gear and I could bug out if necessary but unless my house is on fire I'd rather bug in.
So, for you guys that "Bug out" is plan A, please share your reasoning.

If I decide that a bug out is the only option... I am extracting by sea....
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  #56  
Old 01-18-2019, 9:52 AM
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LA Riots! SHTF your cozy home may get tourched. The Koreans formed a group and held their ground. They did break several laws, but no Koreans were arrested and jailed.
did the roof top koreans actually shoot anybody? or mostly a show of resistance and warning shots?

Ive seen old footage of a Korean guy firing a handgun at the mobs but I dont know if he actually hit or wounded any of them?
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Old 01-19-2019, 7:51 AM
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LA Riots! SHTF your cozy home may get tourched. The Koreans formed a group and held their ground. They did break several laws, but no Koreans were arrested and jailed.
Yes, this seemed to work pretty good. All this talk of "bugging out". How do people plan to carry/haul all that may be required in a last minute split? For the most part, reality sets in and it won't happen. I'd be staying put. Have realiable /armed neighbors who aren't going anywhere either. Too much stuff to try and move.
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Old 01-19-2019, 8:01 AM
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If I decide that a bug out is the only option... I am extracting by sea....
...unless itís january and the swell is massive...
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Old 01-24-2019, 10:54 AM
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For all the bug in folks here (I am one).... are we all considering WHERE we are storing whatever essentials we have squirreled away?

I had a moment the other day where I thought, "OK... I have some stuff.... could use some more.... wait a minute, what good is all this stuff in my garage gonna do me when an earthquake comes and my garage is now a heap of twisted and broken lumber 5 feet tall?"
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Old 01-24-2019, 1:23 PM
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I live in SoCal, bugging out is a recepie for disaster UNLESS one is fortunate to leave before a mass exodus. I'm stuck between an ocean and desert, a summit to the north with choke points and plenty of fire county surrounding. I see lots of wildfires happening from novice campers/survivors.
Head for the ocean, and bring your fishing gear!
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Old 01-24-2019, 1:34 PM
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Head for the ocean, and bring your fishing gear!
Whatís your plan for drinking water on the ocean?
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Old 01-24-2019, 7:11 PM
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did the roof top koreans actually shoot anybody? or mostly a show of resistance and warning shots?

Ive seen old footage of a Korean guy firing a handgun at the mobs but I dont know if he actually hit or wounded any of them?
hmm...good question. I've only seen the same footage and know nothing of the aftermath.
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Old 01-24-2019, 7:15 PM
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I'd rather bug in and revile in the chaos.
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Old 01-24-2019, 7:44 PM
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depends on how dire the situation. best to have options. alamitos bay isn't far.
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Old 01-24-2019, 9:38 PM
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I'd rather bug in and revile in the chaos.
Why would you want to sit back and criticize the chaos in an abusive or angrily insulting manner?
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Old 01-25-2019, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Usmc0844spare View Post
For all the bug in folks here (I am one).... are we all considering WHERE we are storing whatever essentials we have squirreled away?

I had a moment the other day where I thought, "OK... I have some stuff.... could use some more.... wait a minute, what good is all this stuff in my garage gonna do me when an earthquake comes and my garage is now a heap of twisted and broken lumber 5 feet tall?"
Yes! We spread out our stored items and put them in the: pantry, garage, garden shed #1, garden shed #2, unfinished bottom story of the house. Not every location has some of everything (except garden shed #1). But, everything is available from 2-3 of the locations.

In an earthquake some of these locations will not be accessible (except garden shed #1), but some will. Items in the garage are stored next to an exterior wall which can be cut through if the wall is still standing, or the doors are jammed and will not open. A fire would be much more devastating, imo.
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Old 01-28-2019, 11:01 PM
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Go read "listening to Katrina" online. Bugging out is only a tactic... which should be part of an over-all strategy that sees you leaving a once-stable situation that has become non-viable, and arriving eventually in a new safe,stable and normal situation.
The average person who says bugging out is their plan A hasn't got a plan B and really only has the first half of the quoted scenario above actually worked out.

That's a "plan" that is doomed to failure and/or tragedy.
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Old 01-29-2019, 12:23 AM
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In big city's if there is a major incident I'd think most cops would go take care of their own families, then with the breakdown of law enforcement gangs would fill that vacuum.
In LA there's something like 60,000. Gang members.

Bugging out is trouble also, all roads might be impacted.
Thousands of city folk heading to the hills definitely will not be welcome by locals.

Move away from urban areas now.
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Old 01-29-2019, 12:50 AM
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In big city's if there is a major incident I'd think most cops would go take care of their own families, then with the breakdown of law enforcement gangs would fill that vacuum.
In LA there's something like 60,000. Gang members.

Bugging out is trouble also, all roads might be impacted.
Thousands of city folk heading to the hills definitely will not be welcome by locals.

Move away from urban areas now.
This.

I saw the signs a few years ago and already bugged out. Life is good when you get out of the urban cess pool to rural areas full of God-fearing like minded folk.

The bay area and LA basin are death traps waiting to snap shut.
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Old 01-29-2019, 9:54 AM
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There's "bugging out" and then there's "strategic relocation".

Those who are permanently "bugged out" (i.e. it is the new "normal") have done a strategic relocation. "Bugging Out" implies a sudden exodus away from a previously normal situation due to its transition to non-viability. In other words, however prepared you may be to bug out, it's your intention NOT to bug out unless/until it becomes mandated by circumstance. Strategic relocation is a great risk-mitigation plan, but it's not suited to everyone due to conflicting pressures of maintaining income stream, family commitments, etc. If you're in a position where those don't factor in, then living like a hermit in the sticks can be a fulfilling lifestyle choice. For most of us, the need to earn a living and plan for retirement do factor in, and cause us to consider what compromises of long-term security vs the other factors.
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Old 01-29-2019, 10:53 AM
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My wife and I ran through a "bug out" scenario after that huge SoCal power glitch a few years back. We realized it's a terrible idea. First, there's nothing hospitable for people with nothing but what they can carry until you get past Kansas. Seriously. Think about it. From SoCal you only have east to go. First you have to cross small mountain ranges, then you get to cross a desert. A big desert. Then more mountains. Then the great plains. The only advantage of getting east of the Rockies is flat terrain, but it's over 400 miles of no trees and sparse groundwater, unless you manage to blunder into a river. None of that takes into account whether the locals all along the way are amenable to sharing. If they aren't, you're screwed. I've got a lifetime of hunting and bushcraft experience and didn't think it was a good idea. My wife didn't think she'd get past Poway on foot.
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Old 01-29-2019, 11:31 AM
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My wife and I ran through a "bug out" scenario after that huge SoCal power glitch a few years back. We realized it's a terrible idea. First, there's nothing hospitable for people with nothing but what they can carry until you get past Kansas. Seriously. Think about it. From SoCal you only have east to go. First you have to cross small mountain ranges, then you get to cross a desert. A big desert. Then more mountains. Then the great plains. The only advantage of getting east of the Rockies is flat terrain, but it's over 400 miles of no trees and sparse groundwater, unless you manage to blunder into a river. None of that takes into account whether the locals all along the way are amenable to sharing. If they aren't, you're screwed. I've got a lifetime of hunting and bushcraft experience and didn't think it was a good idea. My wife didn't think she'd get past Poway on foot.
The idea of "bugging out" shouldn't be "just go" with no plan.

The idea should be something along the lines of "The Bay Area is messed up by this 9.0 EQ and it won't be liveable here for weeks. My brother lives in Fresno, we will bug out of here (because we have things staged for just such a contingency) and go stay with them until things get back to normal here. We drive out with our essentials if possible. If we can't drive, we walk with enough to make do until we get to a place where transportation is available to get us the rest of the way. Then we can return, or, if that's impractical or impossible, we will put down roots somewhere new and resume normal life there."

Nomadically living with just what you can carry for any length of time? That's not a "plan", that's desperation. That's homelessness. That's panic. That's failure. That's HALF a plan. That's not really better (arguably worse, even) than sitting at home in the rubble with no services of any kind hoping to be "rescued" at some point.

Again, go read "Listening to Katrina"

http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/klessons/


I would argue that anyone who claims to have their primary plan as "bugging out" needs to revise that plan after having THOROUGHLY read that entire site. If bugging out is more than a daydream, if you expect to be able to evac a troubled area and have something resembling a successful time of it - ESPECIALLY if you have a wife and or kids - you OWE it to yourself to seriously read and think about what is said at "Listening to Katrina".
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Last edited by bruss01; 01-29-2019 at 11:39 AM..
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Old 01-29-2019, 11:34 AM
Featureless Featureless is offline
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Hell no. I'm gonna stay and go down with the ship. If you run, you'll only die tired.
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