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  #681  
Old 04-04-2019, 6:41 PM
sinan sinan is offline
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Some magazines have the month and year of production written on them, so if you buy a magazine 6 months from now and it's dated August 2019, then the DOJ would know you didn't buy it during the window when it was legal
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  #682  
Old 04-04-2019, 6:49 PM
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Originally Posted by sinan View Post
Some magazines have the month and year of production written on them, so if you buy a magazine 6 months from now and it's dated August 2019, then the DOJ would know you didn't buy it during the window when it was legal
Scratch the date off
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  #683  
Old 04-04-2019, 6:53 PM
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Magpul can just 'forget' to update their date stamp for a while.
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  #684  
Old 04-04-2019, 6:56 PM
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i dont think Magpul will ever change the markings and shapes of pmags from now on after they see the purchasing power of Californians
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  #685  
Old 04-04-2019, 6:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Interpol View Post
Nor would I...don't do this, folks...bad bad bad
Look like I took the DOJ bait

Let it be known that as today (4/4/2019) and onward, I only own and possess LCMs [sic] that I have legally obtained and/or manufactured during the time frame of 3/29/2019-4/5/2019 when buying, transferring, manufacturing, and/or acquiring possession thereof is/was legal

All statements made prior and contrary to such statements prior to this post should be taken in jest and not be taken as legal binding statements
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  #686  
Old 04-04-2019, 7:00 PM
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Well it would be just plain wrong for someone to deface a magazine to hide a date stamp. However if they did a stippling job to that entire section to ease handling and give them more grip I doubt anyone could say it was malicious.
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  #687  
Old 04-04-2019, 7:07 PM
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shipping time doesn't count as long as its purchased before 5pm.
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  #688  
Old 04-04-2019, 7:09 PM
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If you watch the entire interview the beginning he had no idea of the stay. When he was describing what would happen in a full stay it was hypothetical. He had not seen the partial stay that was granted. So when he said no mags would be legal unless possessed by the stay date he had not even seen the verbiage in the order. That’s my opinion at least. He actually found out about the order during the interview.
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  #689  
Old 04-04-2019, 7:09 PM
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Keep all of your receipts dated between 3/29/19 and 4/5/19. Theoretically they could be 'recycled' for any mags of the same make/model you buy in the future, right? Theoretically?
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  #690  
Old 04-04-2019, 7:10 PM
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So if you were going to buy a custom carved elephant tusk from Africa and you paid for it with bitcoins today, and it was going to arrive in America in six months, would you say you imported the tusk today? Or would you say you imported it in six months when it actually entered the country?
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  #691  
Old 04-04-2019, 7:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Interpol View Post
Keep all of your receipts dated between 3/29/19 and 4/5/19. Theoretically they could be 'recycled' for any mags of the same make/model you buy in the future, right? Theoretically?
What about the cases of mags people bought in the parking lot of the Home Depot for cash?
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  #692  
Old 04-04-2019, 7:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Interpol View Post
Keep all of your receipts dated between 3/29/19 and 4/5/19. Theoretically they could be 'recycled' for any mags of the same make/model you buy in the future, right? Theoretically?
We don't need to do that.

The state would have to PROVE that the magazines we had in our hands were imported or otherwise acquired outside of the window. How would they prove that beyond a reasonable doubt unless they had serial numbers and were all tracked individually like receivers?
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  #693  
Old 04-04-2019, 7:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Interpol View Post
So let's say 6 months from now, someone drives to NV or AZ, buys a bunch of 30 round mags, and drives back to CA (not that any of us law abiding citizens would ever consider doing this). How would it be at all possible for the state to prove that these mags were purchased outside of the time window of 3/29/19 and 4/5/19?
They couldn't. Unless it was a Magpul or some other mag with a 5/19 or later date stamp. Or a magazine and / or manufacturer which didn't exist prior to 4/1/19.

The burden of proof is not on us to prove when we got them (by way of receipt or any other means), the burden of proof would be on them to prove it was not obtained either prior to the previous ban, or between 3/29 and 4/5.

How in the hell are they going to do that?

Let's say I've got a 10 count of magpuls at my brother's in AZ. Had them shipped there 6 or 7 years ago, and they have been sitting in the unopened box in his garage. And they remain there. All neatly packaged up and with their 2012 date stamps. When the ruling came down on Friday, I call the brother and tell him "get those things in the mail to me now".

Just how would it be proven that did not happen in the time frame stated?

That's the beauty of this whole thing (assuming they are not all eventually taken away). ANY mag made prior to 4/5/19 cannot be proven to not of been brought into ones possession in this state between 4/1 and 4/5. Unless someone gets pretty stupid about it.

Yeah, one could still potentially be arrested. But that could happen anyway. As long as one keeps their damn mouth shut, how in the world can it be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that did not happen?

Or am I missing something?

Personally, I do have some mags at a brother's house just as described. But I elected to not have them mailed. I've got whatever mags I currently need, and those were bought (as I recall) during a time when a nationwide ban on new standard capacity magazines seemed like a possibility, but our ban here was already in place (again, if I recall my thinking and concerns at the time). No reason for me to bring them into CA now. But I legally could have, 2012 date stamp and all.

This has far more impact than the what, maybe 1-2 million mags brought in over the past week. How many mags have been in storage out of state, parts kits, etc., etc.

Not only is the state starting from scratch and re-setting the clock 20 years, they're doing so with a much bigger pile of mags to start with.
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  #694  
Old 04-04-2019, 7:13 PM
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They can't. Its no different than its been for the last 19 years. Just now there is a legal path to own mags that were not around pre 2000. The only way to legally own a P mag was to have converted it from a pre 2000 AR mag. When you see a 20 year old guy with a 30 round P mag, its a tough sell to claim he owned a 30 round USGI mag when he was 2, and sometime later replaced the body, follower, and base place with Magpul parts. But it would be up to the state to prove otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Interpol View Post
So let's say 6 months from now, someone drives to NV or AZ, buys a bunch of 30 round mags, and drives back to CA (not that any of us law abiding citizens would ever consider doing this). How would it be at all possible for the state to prove that these mags were purchased outside of the time window of 3/29/19 and 4/5/19?
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  #695  
Old 04-04-2019, 7:18 PM
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Originally Posted by G-forceJunkie View Post
They can't. Its no different than its been for the last 19 years. Just now there is a legal path to own mags that were not around pre 2000. The only way to legally own a P mag was to have converted it from a pre 2000 AR mag. When you see a 20 year old guy with a 30 round P mag, its a tough sell to claim he owned a 30 round USGI mag when he was 2, and sometime later replaced the body, follower, and base place with Magpul parts. But it would be up to the state to prove otherwise.
There were people here asking if they can give magazines to their children so they have them when they grow up, that could be the case too. I gave 5 to my infant.
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  #696  
Old 04-04-2019, 7:20 PM
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Originally Posted by G-forceJunkie View Post
They can't. Its no different than its been for the last 19 years. Just now there is a legal path to own mags that were not around pre 2000. The only way to legally own a P mag was to have converted it from a pre 2000 AR mag. When you see a 20 year old guy with a 30 round P mag, its a tough sell to claim he owned a 30 round USGI mag when he was 2, and sometime later replaced the body, follower, and base place with Magpul parts. But it would be up to the state to prove otherwise.
You forgot 10/30 converted pmags which was the way to get (all the parts) into state legally for years now and still is. Even after the stay is in effect you can still keep buying 10/30 converted mags all day long.
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  #697  
Old 04-04-2019, 7:20 PM
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Originally Posted by PGMHecateII View Post
”These were purchased during a legal window, I am not sure what you are talking about ociffer”

(Let it be known I am not legally condoning such situations nor would I ever attempt such actions personally)
Never forget that we still have California's Border Protection Stations (BPS) on all major freeways between us and AZ & NV. I know those are for fruit inspections, but they are still law enforcement agents.
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  #698  
Old 04-04-2019, 7:26 PM
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Originally Posted by KurosuHa View Post
Never forget that we still have California's Border Protection Stations (BPS) on all major freeways between us and AZ & NV. I know those are for fruit inspections, but they are still law enforcement agents.
That is why I added the stipulation; I don’t intend to go out and illegally import LCMs [sic] once the stay has been instated

Buy out of state and leave with relatives or bury in a hole; sure
But facilitating transactions with the intent to illegally import across state borders; never
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  #699  
Old 04-04-2019, 7:29 PM
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Originally Posted by SanDiego619 View Post
So if you were going to buy a custom carved elephant tusk from Africa and you paid for it with bitcoins today, and it was going to arrive in America in six months, would you say you imported the tusk today? Or would you say you imported it in six months when it actually entered the country?
Benitez’s wording in the stay added a stipulation for “purchased” so depending on the legal definition, you “purchased” that “custom carved elephant tusk” during a point legal to do so; where, how, or when it came into your actual physical possession should and is, therefor, irrelevant

(Again however; I’m not a lawyer, follow advice at your own risk)
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  #700  
Old 04-04-2019, 7:29 PM
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Originally Posted by SanDiego619 View Post
There were people here asking if they can give magazines to their children so they have them when they grow up, that could be the case too. I gave 5 to my infant.
Something to think about, definitely. I'm wondering about the lending/giving part. It reads like as long as the individual has done any of the qualifying actions during the defined window, the injunction applies to them and they are free to give or lend to other such individuals. In which case, one should see that their family members, kids, spouse, etc., should complete one of the qualifying activities by tomorrow at 5, if they are to ever be given or lent a 10+ round magazine.
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  #701  
Old 04-04-2019, 7:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PGMHecateII View Post
Benitez’s wording in the stay added a stipulation for “purchased” so depending on the legal definition, you “purchased” that “custom carved elephant tusk” during a point legal to do so; where, how, or when it came into your actual physical possession should and is, therefor, irrelevant

(Again however; I’m not a lawyer, follow advice at your own risk)
Sure purchasing is ok. So you purchase it in that window.

But I am talking about importing. It says you can import it in that window of time. But what if you purchase it inside the window, legally, and the import it outside the window, illegally?

The real question is... when is it imported? When you click "buy" or when it crosses into this state?

Like my elephant tusk - when is it imported? When I send my bitcoins, or six months later when it is unloaded secretly at night time on the boat dock?
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  #702  
Old 04-04-2019, 7:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interpol View Post
Keep all of your receipts dated between 3/29/19 and 4/5/19. Theoretically they could be 'recycled' for any mags of the same make/model you buy in the future, right? Theoretically?
You do not have to prove you are innocent. They have to prove you are guilty.
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  #703  
Old 04-04-2019, 7:39 PM
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Originally Posted by SanDiego619 View Post
Sure purchasing is ok. So you purchase it in that window.

But I am talking about importing. It says you can import it in that window of time. But what if you purchase it inside the window, legally, and the import it outside the window, illegally?

The real question is... when is it imported? When you click "buy" or when it crosses into this state?

Like my elephant tusk - when is it imported? When I send my bitcoins, or six months later when it is unloaded secretly at night time on the boat dock?
This is why I feel Benitez was smart to word it in such a way that it would be borderline unenforceable and up to countless legal interpretations. The only way it will be further defined is if Bercera asked for clarification and Benitez further clarified the provision for such situations (unlikely) or the State attempts to pursue those of us still waiting on mags to set a legal precedent (possible but also unlikely)
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  #704  
Old 04-04-2019, 7:40 PM
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Default Simple question..

Couple real simple questions.... can I still do some more last minute panic buying? What about shipments that are enroute?
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  #705  
Old 04-04-2019, 7:43 PM
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Originally Posted by astro.dude View Post
Couple real simple questions.... can I still do some more last minute panic buying? What about shipments that are enroute?
This has been the topic of discussion for the passed few hours
At this time, the answer to that is a legal grey-area: no one knows exactly and everyone’s got their own opinion
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  #706  
Old 04-04-2019, 7:47 PM
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Originally Posted by astro.dude View Post
Couple real simple questions.... can I still do some more last minute panic buying? What about shipments that are enroute?
It seems like most people believe that purchases made within the window will be ok, even if they are shipped/imported/delivered after 5pm tomorrow.

Some people are asking if it is ok to receive them after 5pm tomorrow.

Some claim it is crystal clear in the wording of the stay, but others don't think so.

I will say if I didn't already get all I need in the short window, I would be ordering all I could right now.
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  #707  
Old 04-04-2019, 7:48 PM
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Originally Posted by PGMHecateII View Post
This has been the topic of discussion for the passed few hours
At this time, the answer to that is a legal grey-area: no one knows exactly and everyone’s got their own opinion
Thanks that was my interpretation as well...
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  #708  
Old 04-04-2019, 7:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astro.dude View Post
Couple real simple questions.... can I still do some more last minute panic buying? What about shipments that are enroute?
4:59pm tomorrow seems to be the cut off.
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  #709  
Old 04-04-2019, 7:58 PM
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Originally Posted by SanDiego619 View Post
Sure purchasing is ok. So you purchase it in that window.

But I am talking about importing. It says you can import it in that window of time. But what if you purchase it inside the window, legally, and the import it outside the window, illegally?

The real question is... when is it imported? When you click "buy" or when it crosses into this state?

Like my elephant tusk - when is it imported? When I send my bitcoins, or six months later when it is unloaded secretly at night time on the boat dock?
it said imported, manufactured, et cetera OR purchased.

I think if you bought it before 5 tomorrow you are good.
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  #710  
Old 04-04-2019, 8:01 PM
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I would view “imported” from the view of “straw purchases”
As if you had a non-California relative or friend from out of state make the purchase for you, and then deliver the mags to you from out-of-state by crossing state-lines

Who knows, and I just want to reiterate that I think Benitez purposely worded it vaguely as such to make it unenforceable without wasting serious state time/resources

(I am not a lawyer)
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  #711  
Old 04-04-2019, 8:04 PM
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What is the exact definition of "purchased"?
What is the exact definition of "bought"?
What is the exact definition of "is"?

What a clusterf**k this state is.
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  #712  
Old 04-04-2019, 8:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorMan View Post
How is this a gray area? Permanent injunction preventing enforcement remains in effect "for those persons and business entities who have manufactured, imported, sold, or bought magazines able to hold more than 10 rounds between the entry of this Court’s injunction on March 29, 2019and 5:00 p.m., Friday, April 5, 2019.



"IT IS HEREBY FURTHER ORDERED thatthe permanent injunction enjoining enforcement of California Penal Code §32310 (a) and (b)shall remain in effect for those persons and business entities who have manufactured, imported, sold, or bought magazines able to hold more than 10 rounds betweenthe entry of this Court’s injunction on March 29, 2019and 5:00 p.m., Friday, April 5, 2019."
If you bought before the deadline but imported after, the DOJ will still get you if caught by some officer who doesn't know the law or cares

The legal costs could bankrupt you.

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  #713  
Old 04-04-2019, 8:19 PM
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Was waiting to see how this thing panned out. Just put in orders for mags tonight! Glad there are some still to be had.

Going to go drill out my riveted mags now. Because I can.

Hoping for a positive outcome for the injunction.
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  #714  
Old 04-04-2019, 8:24 PM
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Originally Posted by KurosuHa View Post
Never forget that we still have California's Border Protection Stations (BPS) on all major freeways between us and AZ & NV. I know those are for fruit inspections, but they are still law enforcement agents.
Not if you take the 40, exit needles, take the i95 to fort Mohave/bullhead area. The checkpoint is further up the 40 by havasu gorge.

Or even the 40 to searchlight en route to Vegas. I wouldn’t do that though, cause ain’t nothin on the search light route worth anything.
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  #715  
Old 04-04-2019, 8:37 PM
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Would PPT's initiated between 03/29 - 04/05 of non-roster handguns with SCM be covered by the ruling?
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  #716  
Old 04-04-2019, 8:43 PM
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Originally Posted by adrroman View Post
Would PPT's initiated between 03/29 - 04/05 of non-roster handguns with SCM be covered by the ruling?
Sounds like as long as you do the transfer before tomorrow at 5pm you can legally take possesion of the magazines.
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  #717  
Old 04-04-2019, 8:55 PM
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Sorry for late question just got in from work...
Has Judge Benitez' issued a stay yet ?
Or is the CAL AJ just blowing steam at this point and no stay may get issued by Friday evening ?
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  #718  
Old 04-04-2019, 8:58 PM
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Sorry for late question just got in from work...
Has Judge Benitez' issued a stay yet ?
Or is the CAL AJ just blowing steam at this point and no stay may get issued by Friday evening?
Oh boy
Contingent Stay has been issued but does not go into effect until 5:00PM 4/5/2019

Lots has been discussed since the ruling
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  #719  
Old 04-04-2019, 8:58 PM
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Today, Federal District Court Roger T. Benitez issued an order staying enforcement of the judgment in the NRA and CRPA supported case of Duncan v. Becerra. Last Friday, Judge Benitez issued a tremendous victory for gun owners, striking down California’s restrictions against the manufacture, importation, sale, transfer, receipt, and possession of magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds.

Today’s ruling stays enforcement of the injunction as applied to the restrictions against the manufacture, importation, sale, transfer, and receipt of so-called “large-capacity” magazines, as of 5:00PM TOMORROW, April 5, 2019. In other words, those restrictions will once again be enforceable after that time. But the ruling also clarifies that the injunction against those restrictions will remain in effect “for those persons and business entities who have manufactured, imported, sold, or bought magazines able to hold more than 10 rounds between the entry of this Court’s injunction on March 29, 2019 and 5:00 p.m., Friday, April 5, 2019.”

Additionally, the ruling also makes clear that the preliminary injunction issued in July 2017, which prohibited the enforcement of the “possession” restriction enacted by Proposition 63 and Senate Bill 1446 will remain in effect during the appeal. In other words, California residents who lawfully possess magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds may continue to possess them while the case is appealed.

Continue to check your inbox and the California Stand and Fight webpage for updates on this important issue and other issues impacting your Second Amendment rights and hunting heritage in California.
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Old 04-04-2019, 8:59 PM
Mr.patriot1776 Mr.patriot1776 is offline
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I hope this helps clears things up for you guys this is verbatim from the NRA letter I received less than an hour ago
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