Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > POLITICS, LITIGATION AND ACTIVISM > California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 05-11-2019, 1:44 PM
SanDiego619's Avatar
SanDiego619 SanDiego619 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 672
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LongLiveTheRepublic View Post
From what I've read, 26 inches or longer for rimfire and 30 inches or longer for centerfire rifles. Centerfire rifles under 30 inches are considered AWs in California.
Ahh, ok.

So my friend's 34 inch featureless AR15 is legal.

__________________
Where the people fear the government you have tyranny. Where the government fears the people you have liberty.
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 05-11-2019, 2:05 PM
Mayor McRifle's Avatar
Mayor McRifle Mayor McRifle is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Central Valley
Posts: 6,428
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanDiego619 View Post
What if some idiot sees you with a standard capacity magazine and tries to arrest you and you shoot them in self-defense because they are trying to kidnap you?
It would depend on the actual circumstances of course, but I doubt that a reasonable person would fear imminent death or great bodily injury from a wannabe cop attempting to effect a citizen's arrest for a legally possessed magazine that you cannot be prosecuted for. More importantly, I doubt that you would be in actual fear of imminent death or great bodily injury in a situation like that.
__________________
Anchors Aweigh


Last edited by Mayor McRifle; 05-11-2019 at 2:08 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 05-11-2019, 2:59 PM
Donk310's Avatar
Donk310 Donk310 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,663
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by seal20 View Post
There's definite more to this story...
For sure.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 05-20-2019, 4:21 PM
SnWnMe's Avatar
SnWnMe SnWnMe is online now
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The 951
Posts: 6,242
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Private citizen's arrest for a magazine...

I knew there was a good reason why I never changed the old school buttstock on my AR-15.
__________________
Frank Da Tank
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 05-20-2019, 4:48 PM
Featureless's Avatar
Featureless Featureless is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: SLO County
Posts: 617
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post

But the statute is clear. If you possess a Large Capacity Magazine at the range, and you don't have exempt status from PC 32310, then any private person in your presence may arrest you.
Well that's an interesting posit. I suppose they could try. What level of force are they allowed to use before they commit assault upon my person? (Whereupon I may find it necessary to defend myself. And myself is 73 years old, therefore I am a protected class and you may not do me harm without consequence)
__________________
California Native
Lifelong Gun Owner
NRA Member
CRPA Member

"Liberals have two related goals. First, to establish themselves as morally and intellectually superior to the distasteful population of common people; and second, to gather as much power as possible to tell those distasteful common people how they must live their lives"
~Ronald Reagan
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 05-20-2019, 4:50 PM
curtisfong's Avatar
curtisfong curtisfong is online now
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,035
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
If you possess a Large Capacity Magazine at the range, and you don't have exempt status from PC 32310, then any private person in your presence may arrest you.
Which could only be true if you just about literally told this person you don't have exempt status, or this person literally witnessed you transfer a magazine, illegally, in person.

Ridiculous.
__________________
The Rifle on the Wall

"“[S]cientific proof” of both gun-rights and gun-control theories “is very hard to get”; therefore, requiring “some substantial scientific proof to show that a [firearm] law will indeed substantially reduce crime and injury” is tantamount to applying strict scrutiny to, and almost certainly will lead to invalidation of, the law." - Kamela Harris

Lawyers and their Stockholm Syndrome
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 05-20-2019, 4:59 PM
tuna quesadilla's Avatar
tuna quesadilla tuna quesadilla is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Placentia
Posts: 4,402
iTrader: 51 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvaz View Post
Wait what? You are saying any rando douchebag at the range can "citizen arrest" you just because he saw you with scm / lcms?
New here? There are literally people on this very forum who would perform a citizen's arrest on you for having SCM/LCMs.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 05-20-2019, 7:20 PM
curtisfong's Avatar
curtisfong curtisfong is online now
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,035
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
you don't have exempt status from PC 32310
I'd like to re-iterate exactly how impossible this is to determine by just seeing an "LCM"[sic] standard capacity magazine.
__________________
The Rifle on the Wall

"“[S]cientific proof” of both gun-rights and gun-control theories “is very hard to get”; therefore, requiring “some substantial scientific proof to show that a [firearm] law will indeed substantially reduce crime and injury” is tantamount to applying strict scrutiny to, and almost certainly will lead to invalidation of, the law." - Kamela Harris

Lawyers and their Stockholm Syndrome

Last edited by curtisfong; 05-20-2019 at 7:27 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 05-20-2019, 9:57 PM
RickD427's Avatar
RickD427 RickD427 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: King County
Posts: 6,163
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

All,

We've kinda gone off on a bit of a tangent with the Citizen's Arrest thing. Here's a couple of points to keep in mind:

1) Way back in Post #56, I made the observation that persons attempting to make "citizen's arrests" without the assistance of LEO's often wind up going to jail themselves. California law does permit private persons to make arrests and the conditions under which arrests may be made are quite specific.

2) One of the big problems for a person making a private arrest is that they must have knowledge that a crime occurred. If the crime is a misdemeanor, they must also know that the person to be arrested is the one that committed the crime. In the case of a felony, the private person get the benefit of "Reasonable Cause" as to the identity of the arrestee, but not as to the crime being committed. That's a very high burden for the private person to meet.

3) A private person making a lawful arrest does not commit kidnapping, or false imprisonment by making a lawful arrest. The kidnapping statute contains an exemption for lawful arrests and the false imprisonment statute contains an "unlawful" element that is not present during a lawful private person's arrest. The danger for a person making a private arrest is that if the arrest is unlawful, then both of the statutes are easily violated. Here's where most "Arrestors" wind up going to jail. The typical scenario is that the arrest was lacking one or more elements and was therefore unlawfully made.

4) Case law does allow an arresting citizen to use reasonable force in the making of an arrest. But interestingly, there is no statute forbidding resistance to a private arrest. At a field level, if there were mutual combat between a person making a lawful arrest, and the person being arrested, it would likely end in the arrestee being charged with battery.
__________________
If you build a man a fire, you'll keep him warm for the evening. If you set a man on fire, you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life.

Last edited by RickD427; 05-21-2019 at 11:51 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 05-21-2019, 10:05 AM
curtisfong's Avatar
curtisfong curtisfong is online now
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,035
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuna quesadilla View Post
SCM/LCMs.
I propose a new term! "Standard capacity LCM"
__________________
The Rifle on the Wall

"“[S]cientific proof” of both gun-rights and gun-control theories “is very hard to get”; therefore, requiring “some substantial scientific proof to show that a [firearm] law will indeed substantially reduce crime and injury” is tantamount to applying strict scrutiny to, and almost certainly will lead to invalidation of, the law." - Kamela Harris

Lawyers and their Stockholm Syndrome
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 05-21-2019, 10:10 AM
Featureless's Avatar
Featureless Featureless is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: SLO County
Posts: 617
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
All,


4) Case law does allow an arresting citizen to use reasonable force in the making of an arrest. But interestingly, there is no statute forbidding resistance to a private arrest. At a field level, if there were mutual combat between a person making a lawful arrest, and the person being arrested, it would likely end in the arrestee being charged with battery.
What would constitute a 'lawful arrest'? Because I can understand 'mutual combat' happening if/when some citizen attempts to 'arrest' another citizen without the presence of a cop. If however said cop is present, it would seem that 'mutual combat' would not occur.
__________________
California Native
Lifelong Gun Owner
NRA Member
CRPA Member

"Liberals have two related goals. First, to establish themselves as morally and intellectually superior to the distasteful population of common people; and second, to gather as much power as possible to tell those distasteful common people how they must live their lives"
~Ronald Reagan
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 05-21-2019, 10:39 AM
jimmykan's Avatar
jimmykan jimmykan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,209
iTrader: 100 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Featureless View Post
What would constitute a 'lawful arrest'? Because I can understand 'mutual combat' happening if/when some citizen attempts to 'arrest' another citizen without the presence of a cop. If however said cop is present, it would seem that 'mutual combat' would not occur.
Police Officer:
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 05-21-2019, 10:52 AM
Donk310's Avatar
Donk310 Donk310 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,663
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Featureless View Post
Well that's an interesting posit. I suppose they could try. What level of force are they allowed to use before they commit assault upon my person? (Whereupon I may find it necessary to defend myself. And myself is 73 years old, therefore I am a protected class and you may not do me harm without consequence)
LOL. Usually all they do is pick up the phone and call the Police. They do the force part, the citizen is doing the "arrest" part.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 05-21-2019, 11:22 AM
Mayor McRifle's Avatar
Mayor McRifle Mayor McRifle is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Central Valley
Posts: 6,428
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Featureless View Post
What would constitute a 'lawful arrest'?
Arresting someone for something that they could actually be prosecuted for.
__________________
Anchors Aweigh

Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 05-21-2019, 11:40 AM
Dan_Eastvale's Avatar
Dan_Eastvale Dan_Eastvale is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 1,744
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Here in Utah big box stores (Walmart, Best Buy particularly) security and management perform citizens arrest frequently. One I saw recently the guard and another employee chased a shoplifter through the parking lot, across a busy street and then tackled him in an adjacent field. The police praised their arrest.
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 05-21-2019, 11:54 AM
RickD427's Avatar
RickD427 RickD427 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: King County
Posts: 6,163
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Featureless View Post
What would constitute a 'lawful arrest'? Because I can understand 'mutual combat' happening if/when some citizen attempts to 'arrest' another citizen without the presence of a cop. If however said cop is present, it would seem that 'mutual combat' would not occur.
Two things are required: 1) There has to be a legal authority for the arrest. For private persons, that authority is defined in Penal Code section 837. 2) The elements of a crime must be present.
__________________
If you build a man a fire, you'll keep him warm for the evening. If you set a man on fire, you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life.
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 05-21-2019, 11:56 AM
RickD427's Avatar
RickD427 RickD427 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: King County
Posts: 6,163
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WASR10 View Post
Anyone who tries to Citizen’s Arrest me, I’m gonna Citizen’s Arrest then for False Citizen’s Arrest!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That's groovy, but the elements of a crime have to be present.

Just out of curiosity, what is the statute proscribing "False Citizen's Arrest" and what are the elements?
__________________
If you build a man a fire, you'll keep him warm for the evening. If you set a man on fire, you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life.
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 05-21-2019, 12:27 PM
RickD427's Avatar
RickD427 RickD427 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: King County
Posts: 6,163
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WASR10 View Post
You may have studied it during your time at killajoke university.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah, I know. I seem to be real good at that.
__________________
If you build a man a fire, you'll keep him warm for the evening. If you set a man on fire, you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life.
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 05-21-2019, 12:59 PM
Unbekannt Unbekannt is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 311
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

There are a lot of holes in this story which need to be filled in---as everyone says. But if this were me, I would hire a lawyer because either I am going to jail or all these others, store manager, cop, are going to get sued civilly.
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 05-21-2019, 4:44 PM
stix213's Avatar
stix213 stix213 is offline
AKA: Joe Censored
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: San Rafael
Posts: 17,120
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

For all we know a dummy who would submit to a search of his home knowing they would find what they were looking for is also a dummy who would admit to acquiring mags outside of the protection of the judge's orders.
Reply With Quote
  #101  
Old 05-21-2019, 4:50 PM
bajadan bajadan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 845
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WASR10 View Post
Anyone who tries to Citizen’s Arrest me, I’m gonna Citizen’s Arrest then for False Citizen’s Arrest!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
not possible, if you have illegal status. exempt from all laws
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 05-21-2019, 6:25 PM
Matt P Matt P is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Fresno, Calif.
Posts: 2,901
iTrader: 176 / 100%
Default

He could have easily consented based on how he was asked or why he should consent.
There could have been any number of calamities suggested if he were not to be co-operative.
I can easily see someone consenting based on the totality of these events.

Anyway you look at this he is a fellow gun owner who is dealing with a life altering event. This will shape his life for years to come.

We are all fortunate to discuss his choices and potential fate without having to walk his walk.
Thanks for posting the info about this unfortunate event.
__________________
WTB-Glock Manuals 85,86,87 and 88 series. Glock plastic boxes “Tuppaware” style any. Please PM me. Large or small amount of them. Serious buyer.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 8:25 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.