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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #1  
Old 08-08-2016, 9:59 PM
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Default Why the fascination with ferro rods?

Alright, it's time someone said something. I'm staging an intervention of sorts, we have to talk about our community's fascination with ferro rods.

Bic lighters are easier and more effective, especially when considering all the extra tinder prep needed to find something that you can actually light on fire with the ferro rod. Don't get me started on the "benefits" of a ferro rod. You get your lighter wet, dry it off. It's too cold for butane to work? Keep it in your pocket.

Did I mention that a bic is lighter? Yep, for the amount of fires you can start the bic wins out every time, some guy did the math. Plus once it runs out of gas you can still use the spark wheel to start a fire.

That's not to say I don't keep a micro-ferro rod (1") attached to my knife lanyard and my favorite pair of hiking boots. But it is a last ditch item.

Now, something that actually makes sense to me is fint and steel. You can find the materials in nature (Flint, Quartz, Pyrite) it makes sense to me to practice using it. If you end up in the middle of nowhere with nothing but your street clothes you can find a suitable rock to whack against your EDC knife to generate some sparks.

In fact I keep a striker and a flint in my kit along with some char cloth made from gun cleaning patches, just to keep in practice.

But the lighter kicks both of their behinds in terms of usefulness. So why do you carry a ferro rod? Is it the cool factor or something else?
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Old 08-08-2016, 10:05 PM
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bic lighters only last for so long. and die.

ferro "lighters" will last for years longer and can work when damp.

but most will want to have layers to ligth a fire.
so if you want put a couple bic lighters in your bag but also put in "other" ways to light a fire.
steel whole and a 9 volt battery.
sticks?
dryer lint.
etc.
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Old 08-08-2016, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by packnrat View Post
bic lighters only last for so long. and die.

ferro "lighters" will last for years longer and can work when damp.

but most will want to have layers to ligth a fire.
so if you want put a couple bic lighters in your bag but also put in "other" ways to light a fire.
steel whole and a 9 volt battery.
sticks?
dryer lint.
etc.
This.
Waterproof matches... limited supply, but last forever in the bag in the trunk. The chemically treated "burns when wet" are great, but you can also make basic waterproof matches by coating "strike anywhere" matches with fingernail polish.
Magnifying glass, plastic sheet... there are dozens of ways to make fire and we should never rely on any one method as our sole source.
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Old 08-08-2016, 10:16 PM
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I am with the OP. I stash mini Bics everywhere. I don't relate to the obsession with ferro rods. Kinda like the crazy overemphasis on battoning wood.
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  #5  
Old 08-08-2016, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packnrat View Post
bic lighters only last for so long. and die.

ferro "lighters" will last for years longer and can work when damp.

but most will want to have layers to ligth a fire.
so if you want put a couple bic lighters in your bag but also put in "other" ways to light a fire.
steel whole and a 9 volt battery.
sticks?
dryer lint.
etc.
To be fair though, ferro rods also wear down. Especially if you're trying to light wet tinder... if you can even get it to light. On season 1 of alone the dude from Native Survival said that he was wearing down his ferro rod after less than two weeks because it was taking so many strikes to start a fire.

For the same weight you could have two or three bics. Which means you can barter/lend one to other individuals in your party.

If your lighter gets wet, just blow on it and suddenly it's back in action. If your tinder gets wet you're SOL with a ferro rod. Keep either in a ziplock bag and you're fine.
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Old 08-09-2016, 12:20 AM
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What about the magnesium blocks with the ferro rod embedded & little hacksaw blade chained to it?
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  #7  
Old 08-09-2016, 3:02 AM
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Originally Posted by the86d View Post
Let's do some math...
50 Classic Bic lighters run about $50. ($51.57, actually, but let's just say $50: http://www.ebay.com/itm/50-BIC-full-...0AAOxyVLNS1Y-Q )

Classic Bic lighters are estimated to give ~3,000 lights, so assuming that you light the paper, leaves, or whatever starter is at the bottom of your fire TeePee 3 times (in 3 places, or have to try again 2 more times) you get a minimum of ~1000 fires out of every Classic Bic. ( http://www.bicworld.com/us/products/...65/maxi-j6-j26 )

You would then get ~50,000 fires out of a $50 box of 50 lighters, so dividing this by 365.25 days in a year, this should be enough for roughly 136.8925... years.

How many fires are your fire-kits expected to start?
Put that in your pipe, and smoke it, fire-kit-fellas.
Even with Flint and steel, you are chipping your flint AND steel.

How much are you paying for fire-kits, and pseudo-tech?
Just a thought...
Put one/some in an empty pill bottle for staying water-tight, simple.

How much were those ferro rods?

Last edited by the86d; 08-09-2016 at 3:07 AM..
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  #8  
Old 08-09-2016, 5:55 AM
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bic lighters ftw! I bought the 50 (100??)pack at costco, for cheap.. They keep them in the cigarrette lockup... Virtually a lifetime supply (for a non smoker I suppose)
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Old 08-09-2016, 5:59 AM
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I think this fad is coming from the same crowd that thinks "batonning" is a requirement for a "bush blade" . Its youtube fan bois....
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Old 08-09-2016, 5:59 AM
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We have used a Bic lighter in the high country for the past forty years and never had one fail. Everyone in my family when camping has one hanging from a lanyard from their neck.
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Old 08-09-2016, 5:59 AM
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Originally Posted by the86d View Post
Put one/some in an empty pill bottle for staying water-tight, simple.

How much were those ferro rods?
I think it was $8 per six 1" toggles.

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  #12  
Old 08-09-2016, 7:37 AM
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I agree. I've tried most lighting tools and the bic wins in my book. I think the fascination with ferrorods is they're old school and 'manly'.

For backpacking trips I carry both: primary is mini-bic inside a flip case, backup is mini-ferrorod in small baggy with cotton balls. It's a good idea to have the bic's button protected in some way so it doesn't inadvertently get pressed when jammed in your gear.

Side bonus of the bic is they're cheap. We were on our last day of a long backpacking trip and bumped into a young couple setting up for their first day. Guy forgot the lighting tool - woman was not happy. I gave them our bic and saved them some relationship friction.
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  #13  
Old 08-09-2016, 10:18 AM
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I usually have a few mini bics in my pack. On my knife I do have a ferro rod, but keep a mini Bic in the pouch. If the Bic fails than the rod is my last ditch effort. Not much of a bow drill or friction fire guy. Regarding having a knife with the ability to batton wood into smaller kindling and tinder. I like being able to do one stick fires. It's fun and entertaining. I'm on vacation right now and the beach has a ton of drift wood. Instead of running to the store to pay $11-15 per night for the wood I've been processing drift wood. I'm using a Silky Saw pocket boy and a Survive! GSO 4.1. Brought my Rodent 9 as a chopper and it battons through wood with ease. I didn't bring an axe or hatchet because I wasn't planning to break down our firewood for the whole week, but it literally takes me 10 minutes to get all of the firewood needed each night. The kids are having a blast using their Bark River Bravo 1's in S35vn and Cpm3v steels to process their wood.

Wife and I are doing a 12 mile day hike tomorrow. I'll end up packing my GSO and Silky just in case. Wife will be carrying a Bark River Liton Bror, along with an extra mini bic.
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Old 08-09-2016, 12:46 PM
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But, but... Bear Grylles said....
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Old 08-09-2016, 12:50 PM
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But, but... Bear Grylles said....
I saw that episode, remember when he laid it out on the bed in the hotel room.....
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Old 08-09-2016, 12:52 PM
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I quit carrying my ferro rod a long time ago. The only time it was ever useful was when I was bored and wanted to try it for the challenge, or just to say that I did it.

Is a Bic lighter windproof? No, but neither is a campfire.

Is a Bic Lighter effective when it's cold? No, so hold it in your hand for a minute. Or stick it between your butt cheeks or something.

Is a Bic Lighter 100% reliable? No, so carry 2. Or 3. Or 5. They weigh nothing. Keep 1 in a ziplock if you're worried about water. You should be carrying ziplocks anyways.

Is a Bic Lighter a fun, challenging way to start a fire that will impress your friends and make you feel like Bear Grylles? No, and that's about the only downside I can think of. If it bothers you that much, make a fire drill and really score some man points.
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Old 08-09-2016, 1:01 PM
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Go with the Bic brand!

I bought a case of no-name lighters on Amazon (seemed like a good barter item). I am having > 10% failure. Flint breaks, no spark.
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Old 08-09-2016, 1:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ElDub1950 View Post
Go with the Bic brand!

I bought a case of no-name lighters on Amazon (seemed like a good barter item). I am having > 10% failure. Flint breaks, no spark.
Had the same experience. Mini-Bics are awesome, never had 1 fail, and so small and light. 3 of them probably weigh less than 1 standard Bic. Only problem is I've never really found a good deal on them in bulk. You can get 50 of them for about $35 on eBay though.
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Old 08-09-2016, 2:52 PM
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I've had plenty of Bic and other brand lighters break on me. Ferro rods, not so much. So because of that I carry both in my kits. A 2" ferro rod is only an inch longer than the ones you carry, so I don't see where an issue is.

*edit to add - A mini Bic is my go-to lighter.
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Old 08-09-2016, 3:20 PM
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I've had plenty of Bic and other brand lighters break on me. Ferro rods, not so much. So because of that I carry both in my kits. A 2" ferro rod is only an inch longer than the ones you carry, so I don't see where an issue is.

*edit to add - A mini Bic is my go-to lighter.
I opened my camping gear this last season only to discover my ferro rod had mostly turned into a big pile of oxidized powder, leaving me with a huge mess to clean up and an unusable ferro rod. I suppose I could have scraped off the thick layer of oxide into the trash to buy some more time out of it, but chose to just stick the whole thing in my trash instead.

After you scrape off the protective coating when you use it, the thing is left with a pretty short shelf life unless you perform regular maintenance on it (oil wipedown) and store it in a sealed container. It probably works ok if you stay on top of maintenance and storage, but is all that work really worth it for what's only really meant to be an emergency backup firestarter? I'd rather just have another Bic as a backup to my Bic. A Bic might break, sure... and your backup one might break too. So carry 3. or 4. At 75 cents each, I don't see why anyone wouldn't carry them. Carry 5 of them and it still weighs less than a ferro rod.
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Last edited by CandG; 08-09-2016 at 3:41 PM..
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  #21  
Old 08-09-2016, 3:41 PM
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I think ferro rods just have a little bit of "fascination magic" in them when you convert your physical efforts into a shower of sparks.

Bic are just spring loaded ferro rods with a wheel striker and a butane fuel line/reservoir attached, but somewhere in the process it doesn't have quite as much magic in it.

Ferro rods are subject to weathering and can crumble and become unusable.

It is the tinder or ability to sustain a flame that is important. That is what the bic provides, a steady flame to overcome crappy tinder.

I love the bic as well. but I think Working from a sparker helps you understand the importance of tinder well.

So anywhooo - candles, paraffin and sawdust balls, vaseline impregnated cotton swabs, fatwood, whittling tinder sticks, pitch, char cloth, learning how to find dry fuel, are all more important for sustainable and masterful firemaking.

I like a trio of Bic, Sparklite + tinder, and wallet size fresnel lens. Learning how to spark off of quartz in a flint and steel type setup does interest me though. Doubt I will ever pick it up though unless my son gets the outdoor survival bug.

I wonder how different from a ferro rod the flint in a Bic or zippo is? There must be quite a few different ferro rod compostions. I've definitely heard of them oxidizing and crumbling like C&G mentions above, but have never seen this on any ferro rod attached to a mag block I've had for 30+ years. and all my other smaller ferro rods were lost or whatever.
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Old 08-09-2016, 6:43 PM
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I carry both haha. but funny you mentioned it, I did the Lost Coast trail 2 weeks ago and a person in our group fell on the rocks. They were fine, but when we made camp that person was on mess duty and found that they had smashed their bic lighter -rendering it useless. Luckily we all had bics (and my trusty ferro rod) so it wasn't even a hindrance. But there is at least 1 good thing about the ferro rod. They are a tad bit more sturdy, depending on construction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falstaff View Post
I think this fad is coming from the same crowd that thinks "batonning" is a requirement for a "bush blade" . Its youtube fan bois....
I dunno, up in Eureka and the pacific northwest or during winter a sturdy bush blade you can baton is extremely necessary if you are not going to carry a hatchet. The latent moisture in those areas leave any fallen wood with a high water content. Breaking the stuff down to the dryer center saves time, and prevents the fire from dying (you are already fighting the moisture in the air). I have used my Junglass and Fiskars on every backpack excursion I just don't see how they can be construed as a fad -unless its just for an overnight trip or something.
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Old 08-09-2016, 7:46 PM
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I pack and carry Bic lighters and heck, I own a couple of Zippo old style just because they are fun.

But it's a Bushcraft matter with my kids and now, my grandkids. Add in the dozens of Scouts in my backyard making tinder with those Home Depot yellow
Pencil sharpeners, a pile of shavings they can light with a Ferro Rod. Good stuff.

Of course a successful fire depends on good Tinder. Regardless of a Bic, Matches or Ferro Rod......carry a pill bottle of good tinder you can burn Rome down.

Yeah, in addition to Bic and Matches, I carry a Ferro Rod Set like in this photo.
But I have lots of Tinder as well. I have one in every car in our Get Home Bags.
(Plus other important items of course)

Fire is important for life in the woods or outside. Teach your kids the various ways to make a proper fire, process firewood, obtain clean water, build a base camp with a Tarp....dress out game and clean a fish. JMO.

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Old 08-09-2016, 7:47 PM
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There's a technique called a "prison match" where you can keep empty Bic lighters lighting fires and working in an emergency situation for even for even longer.

Using the Flint spark from the empty BIC lighter and lint pulled off the inside of your sock as tinder.

Check out this YouTube very short video...

https://youtu.be/6nkjGOmymCI



I feel it's good to know all the other ways to light a fire, even if it's just for entertainment but Bic lighters and many Bic lighters are the way to make fire easy.
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Old 08-09-2016, 8:46 PM
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i often find bics that are out of gas and take the "flint" for use in my zippo
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Old 08-09-2016, 9:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by furyous68 View Post
What about the magnesium blocks with the ferro rod embedded & little hacksaw blade chained to it?
I have used a lot of magnesium firestarters over the years, and have managed to start fires even in very soggy TN woodlands using them. They are my fall back when lighters etc. arent available. There is a "trick" to using them in getting the right size shavings going and enough of them to get your tinder lit enough to stay lit, but thats just part of the learning experience.
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Old 08-10-2016, 6:29 AM
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So we wear our Bic lighter around our necks when we are in the back country on the mules. The crew has many ways to make a lanyard and holder. A couple of my boys used a piece of shrink tube and paracord to make theirs. When the lighter runs out you just throw everything away. Cheap and effective.

I have a leather one a friend made me that is made out of leather and had it for 30 years.

Here is kinda what mine looks like.

http://www.dtacgear.com/#!product/pr...lighter-sheath

When you wear it around your neck, its always warm and dry and pretty hard to damage.
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Old 08-10-2016, 7:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
This.
Waterproof matches... limited supply, but last forever in the bag in the trunk. The chemically treated "burns when wet" are great, but you can also make basic waterproof matches by coating "strike anywhere" matches with fingernail polish.
Magnifying glass, plastic sheet... there are dozens of ways to make fire and we should never rely on any one method as our sole source.
I have some waterproof matches that are from 1975. They still light, but not with the original striker. The striker strip deteriorates quickly.

Since this is a gun forum, most people will be carrying a pistol. You could remove the bullet from a cartridge and use the cartridge and powder to start a fire.





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Last edited by Carcassonne; 08-10-2016 at 7:54 AM..
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Old 08-10-2016, 7:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Carcassonne View Post
Since this is a gun forum, most people will be carrying a pistol.
Unfortunatley those who live in/near some of the major cities don't have carry rights.

Last edited by Citizen_B; 08-10-2016 at 7:55 AM..
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  #30  
Old 08-10-2016, 9:20 AM
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apparently a ferro rod will burn up if dropped in a fire. it's still a good backup to a lighter. I have one in my emergency bag.
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Old 08-10-2016, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by dwalker View Post
I have used a lot of magnesium firestarters over the years, and have managed to start fires even in very soggy TN woodlands using them. They are my fall back when lighters etc. arent available. There is a "trick" to using them in getting the right size shavings going and enough of them to get your tinder lit enough to stay lit, but thats just part of the learning experience.
Magnesium!
When you absolutely have to burn something.

I have had great results with magnesium ribbon. Lights with a Bic lighter.
Wrap it around tinder du jour and light her up.
No shavings, no mess and it's as water proof as the Bic.

I keep a roll of it and a Bic in the same ziploc bag.
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  #32  
Old 08-10-2016, 12:45 PM
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You high tech ferro rod users

http://www.practicalsurvivor.com/bowdrill
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Old 08-10-2016, 8:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeuerFrei View Post
Magnesium!
When you absolutely have to burn something.

I have had great results with magnesium ribbon. Lights with a Bic lighter.
Wrap it around tinder du jour and light her up.
No shavings, no mess and it's as water proof as the Bic.

I keep a roll of it and a Bic in the same ziploc bag.
That sound like a fine idea. Never heard of magnesium ribbon.

Is it this? https://smile.amazon.com/Wrisky-1Rol...gnesium+ribbon

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Old 08-11-2016, 7:15 AM
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^^ That'll work.
I bought several rolls from Amazon for testing.


Sent using a long string & 2 cans.
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Old 08-11-2016, 7:23 AM
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So you have your prep supplies on the shelf for years and years until SHTF

You get up on the ladder and grab that case of Bic Lighters you bought way back when only yo find out the plastic has dried out and become pours. All the fluid is now sitting on the ozone layer (Might be what caused the SHTF) and you are stuck trying to light something with the flint.

Anyone with a camper or motor home knows Bic lighters don't last forever.
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Old 08-11-2016, 7:53 AM
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The oldest bic I know the purchase date on was at least 6 years old and it worked fine. Very few thing last forever and if it was 6 years before giving a look at my emergency gear, I've already failed. Redundancy with multiple different options is a good approach.

The plastic isn't likely to fail first unless it's been sitting out in the sun (UV damage). The valve that holds the gas/fluid back is more likely to leak out first due to the seal drying out / cracking.

I've started fires with empty lighters. Wasn't the easiest way but it can be done.
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Old 08-11-2016, 8:04 AM
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Settle down, folks. The new "ghost gun" regulations probably don't do what you think they do.


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Old 08-11-2016, 1:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falstaff View Post
I think this fad is coming from the same crowd that thinks "batonning" is a requirement for a "bush blade" . Its youtube fan bois....
Agreed. You can 'baton' with a hatchet, and do more with it anyway.

Matches for the win BTW. LOL.
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Old 08-11-2016, 4:12 PM
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I have a few bic lighters in my emergency bag. They are durable. Ive accidentally washed them in the washing machine, and through the dryer several times and they will light right off the bat, last quite a long time and take a beating. Ive found bic lighters from years ago lost in drawers and still work too.

Also keep a ferro rod and a pack of waterproof matches as a backup/alternative, all within a zip lock freezer bag (has a better seal then standard)
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Old 08-11-2016, 5:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxINKxx View Post
I have a few bic lighters in my emergency bag. They are durable. Ive accidentally washed them in the washing machine, and through the dryer several times and they will light right off the bat, last quite a long time and take a beating. Ive found bic lighters from years ago lost in drawers and still work too.

Also keep a ferro rod and a pack of waterproof matches as a backup/alternative, all within a zip lock freezer bag (has a better seal then standard)
Freezer bags are definitely the way to go, for storing both food and gear. They cost a little more, but it's worth it. The standard type doesn't seal as well, like you said, but also punctures way easier.
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