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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

View Poll Results: What are your feelings about Front Sight?
Great Training for Beginners Only. 67 7.81%
Great Training Beginner and Advanced. 578 67.37%
The Quality of Training is Going Down Hill. 19 2.21%
I paid too much for my Membership! 40 4.66%
They will go out of business this year! 21 2.45%
Don't want anything to do with them! 133 15.50%
Voters: 858. You may not vote on this poll

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  #9281  
Old 03-14-2018, 10:03 AM
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I have a question for the experienced Front Sight members --

I have a Front Sight membership; but, have not attended yet. It looks like I will have a stretch of time coming up in the next couple of months where I will have the opportunity to go. I have a "decent" background in handguns; but, not much in the way of rifles. I want to take both handgun and rifle at some point.

The week that I want to go, I see that all options are available: 2D handgun, 4D handgun, 2D rifle and 4D rifle.

So, this is my question: Since I'd really like to do both, is it a dumb idea to take 2D handgun and then 2D rifle back-to-back? Or should I really just bite the bullet and do a 4D for one or the other, knowing that it will probably be a long time before I get a chance to come back to take the other?
Take the 4-day class IMO. If you do the 2 day, you do not get the additional material on days 3&4 and you also don't get the opportunity to "test" so you can qualify to gtfo of the basics class.
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  #9282  
Old 03-14-2018, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by BadKitty View Post

So, this is my question: Since I'd really like to do both, is it a dumb idea to take 2D handgun and then 2D rifle back-to-back? Or should I really just bite the bullet and do a 4D for one or the other, knowing that it will probably be a long time before I get a chance to come back to take the other?
I'd take one 4-day course. You'll learn a lot more than taking two 2-day courses. Much more shooting, fun and camaraderie on the 4 day classes. You will come back again for the other platform, guaranteed.
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  #9283  
Old 03-14-2018, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadKitty View Post
I have a question for the experienced Front Sight members --

I have a Front Sight membership; but, have not attended yet. It looks like I will have a stretch of time coming up in the next couple of months where I will have the opportunity to go. I have a "decent" background in handguns; but, not much in the way of rifles. I want to take both handgun and rifle at some point.

The week that I want to go, I see that all options are available: 2D handgun, 4D handgun, 2D rifle and 4D rifle.

So, this is my question: Since I'd really like to do both, is it a dumb idea to take 2D handgun and then 2D rifle back-to-back? Or should I really just bite the bullet and do a 4D for one or the other, knowing that it will probably be a long time before I get a chance to come back to take the other?
Do one 4-day course.
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  #9284  
Old 03-14-2018, 5:21 PM
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Good looking out, guys. It looks like it might be better to take the 4-day handgun so that I can hopefully earn G or DG and get that one out of the way. It just looks like, due to my work schedule, I wouldn't have another chance to go back for rifle until mid-autumn.
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  #9285  
Old 03-15-2018, 8:48 PM
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AA is right. Do the 4 and stay if you can for the 5th day for concealed carry, you should be done and gone by 1 PM on the 5th day. Plan on shooting at least 600 rounds in the 4 day, which is what makes it worthwhile.
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  #9286  
Old 03-16-2018, 9:42 AM
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Wife and I have a private class this Tuesday, and have classes set up over the 4th of July. Was checking the FS website and they have a new Tactical Awareness 1 day classroom only class. We had a day off on 28 June Thursday between classes so we signed up for it. My guess its a compilation of old class lectures plus a little more? If I read it correctly, the prerequisite for the class is 4 day HG.
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  #9287  
Old 03-17-2018, 5:41 AM
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Double post.......

Last edited by Jerry1834; 03-17-2018 at 5:45 AM..
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  #9288  
Old 03-17-2018, 5:43 AM
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Anyone know if you can use your credits for Ghost Stryke hearing protection at the pro shop? They carried it last year but don't know if they still do.
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  #9289  
Old 03-17-2018, 7:07 AM
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I do not believe you can. They have cut back on the items that you spend Iggy Bucks on now.
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  #9290  
Old 03-17-2018, 7:14 AM
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Thanks! Thinking of order these and was trying to save a buck!!!
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  #9291  
Old 03-17-2018, 7:41 AM
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Originally Posted by LCU1670 View Post
Wife and I have a private class this Tuesday, and have classes set up over the 4th of July. Was checking the FS website and they have a new Tactical Awareness 1 day classroom only class. We had a day off on 28 June Thursday between classes so we signed up for it. My guess its a compilation of old class lectures plus a little more? If I read it correctly, the prerequisite for the class is 4 day HG.
Looks like worth checking out.
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  #9292  
Old 03-17-2018, 8:58 AM
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Thanks! Thinking of order these and was trying to save a buck!!!
That's one of the problems with accumulating a large account of Iggy Bucks, at this time there isn't all that much you can do with them. I last used mine for the "background check" a nice but over priced set of shooting glasses and some FS targets. I just can't get excited when he offers to double my account. I do appreciate his adding to my account, but at this time it really doesn't do much for me.

I think the building of the new ranges is great and it is definitely a step forward. My worry about the master plan is that the ranges are cheap to build in comparison to the planned community. The Iggy Bucks are supposed to be able to be used in new casino etc. but until building really starts I have a hard time continuing to upgrade and further invest in FS.
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  #9293  
Old 03-18-2018, 7:30 AM
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Originally Posted by BrassCase View Post
AA is right. Do the 4 and stay if you can for the 5th day for concealed carry, you should be done and gone by 1 PM on the 5th day. Plan on shooting at least 600 rounds in the 4 day, which is what makes it worthwhile.
If you are from CA and are planning to get a NV CCW after class, plan on another hour going to the Nye County Sheriff's office to do the paperwork.

Did you guys notice that the 4DDHG round count has gone up to 650 rounds? It went up as they are much more efficient with the shoot house rotation with the new ranges in Phase 3. Instead of 4-5 students being transported on the people mover to Bays E - F like they used to, one of the coaches pulls one student at a time from the class and walks them next door.
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  #9294  
Old 03-18-2018, 7:39 AM
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Anyone know if you can use your credits for Ghost Stryke hearing protection at the pro shop? They carried it last year but don't know if they still do.
IIRC it was Pro Ears last year. Now there is a new in-the-ear company, something like "Line X" or similar. (I know, not that truck bed liner company LOL). And, no, Iggy Bucks is no good on those and 5.11 products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrassCase View Post
That's one of the problems with accumulating a large account of Iggy Bucks, at this time there isn't all that much you can do with them. I last used mine for the "background check" a nice but over priced set of shooting glasses and some FS targets. I just can't get excited when he offers to double my account. I do appreciate his adding to my account, but at this time it really doesn't do much for me.

I think the building of the new ranges is great and it is definitely a step forward. My worry about the master plan is that the ranges are cheap to build in comparison to the planned community. The Iggy Bucks are supposed to be able to be used in new casino etc. but until building really starts I have a hard time continuing to upgrade and further invest in FS.
Depending on when the Pro Shop gets their merchandise, you can get some decent FS branded clothing like T-shirts, jackets, hats, etc. You can buy those silly DG coins, the cheap Chinese-made FS sunglasses, or Brad's second book The BladeTech holsters are also, I believe, eligible for Iggy Bucks, but the pistol coverage is meager. If you have a common gun, like a Glock 17 or an M&P9, you can get a nice Bladetech holster from them, but would you go to FS without a holster?

I look at Iggy Bucks as basically another freebie background check for ten years. Woohooo, another freebie from FS!

But, the wife just brought up another point. The good doctor has changed the terms for Iggy Bucks. A couple of years back, I did buy a 5.11 jacket from the Pro Shop with credits I got by upgrading to Ambassador status. Now, 5.11 items are not covered by FS credit. Maybe it's better to spend the credit now as in the future, there is no guarantee Iggy Bucks will cover background checks.
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  #9295  
Old 03-18-2018, 4:21 PM
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Also things purchased on iggy bucks are at full pop. Had to buy a tee shirt for my son because he ruined his spare shirt. $40 on the iggy bucks rather than the discounted price when paying cash at the member discount.
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  #9296  
Old 03-18-2018, 4:26 PM
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He was losing so much money he had to change the terms! I saw his credit on his register it was over 2,000,000. That's a lot of credits!

He could never sustain his offerings . He will continue to change his terms.

How's that hotel working out ?

My wife thinks I only have 3 guns
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  #9297  
Old 03-18-2018, 4:57 PM
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Originally Posted by damon1272 View Post
Also things purchased on iggy bucks are at full pop. Had to buy a tee shirt for my son because he ruined his spare shirt. $40 on the iggy bucks rather than the discounted price when paying cash at the member discount.
I noticed that too. I bought a belt, jacket and a couple of shirts. That's about all the Iggy bucks covered. I guess I'll be buying a lot of shirts in the future.


BTW, it looks like I'll be headed back there in late June for the two day handgun skillbuilder. Anybody else going then?
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  #9298  
Old 03-19-2018, 6:04 AM
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Originally Posted by diverwcw View Post
I noticed that too. I bought a belt, jacket and a couple of shirts. That's about all the Iggy bucks covered. I guess I'll be buying a lot of shirts in the future.


BTW, it looks like I'll be headed back there in late June for the two day handgun skillbuilder. Anybody else going then?
Don't know when yet. I did the skill builder in early May in '16 and in mid June in '17. May was much better (cooler).
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  #9299  
Old 03-19-2018, 12:56 PM
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Anyone know what the spend limit for Iggy bucks is per visit at Pro Shop?
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  #9300  
Old 03-19-2018, 1:36 PM
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Anyone know what the spend limit for Iggy bucks is per visit at Pro Shop?
However many Iggy Bucks you have in the account.

But, we ran out of stuff to buy before we ran out of Iggy Bucks LOL
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  #9301  
Old 03-20-2018, 2:56 PM
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Will be taking the 4 day handgun class and using my 1911 which has a trigger pull of 4 pounds and was told it was too light for the class. If this is so what is the recommended trigger pull for the class. TIA
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  #9302  
Old 03-20-2018, 3:07 PM
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Will be taking the 4 day handgun class and using my 1911 which has a trigger pull of 4 pounds and was told it was too light for the class. If this is so what is the recommended trigger pull for the class. TIA
4lb is the minimum. When you approach the inspection table, just tel them you measured it and itís at exactly 4lbs.
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  #9303  
Old 03-21-2018, 6:40 AM
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Anyone know what the spend limit for Iggy bucks is per visit at Pro Shop?
Don't worry, was at the pro shop, almost nothing there.
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  #9304  
Old 03-21-2018, 9:26 AM
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It was wiped out over a month ago when I was there.
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  #9305  
Old 03-21-2018, 9:45 AM
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I think the building of the new ranges is great and it is definitely a step forward. My worry about the master plan is that the ranges are cheap to build in comparison to the planned community. The Iggy Bucks are supposed to be able to be used in new casino etc. but until building really starts I have a hard time continuing to upgrade and further invest in FS.

Anyone notice the email today with pictures of the "big rocks "? I have a feeling another delay is about to happen with the master plan. They are doing all this grading but still no infrastructure. Where's the power, water, sewer? Even if they are not ready it should still be pulled to the property, right?



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  #9306  
Old 03-21-2018, 10:06 AM
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Grading/environmental and rock removal all has to be done before wets go in such as storm drain first sewer and then water. After that electrical and comms go in. Grading isnít cheap and additional rwork Co removal gets expensive.
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  #9307  
Old 03-21-2018, 3:58 PM
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Anyone notice the email today with pictures of the "big rocks "? I have a feeling another delay is about to happen with the master plan. They are doing all this grading but still no infrastructure. Where's the power, water, sewer? Even if they are not ready it should still be pulled to the property, right?
I saw that e-mail too. I guess it will be a leech field so he'll need something like a golf course for the field if they really get that many residents in the condos and hotel, then propane and well water. We haven't heard anything of a solar array yet for FS?
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  #9308  
Old 03-21-2018, 11:55 PM
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Couldn't find it when I ran a search but is it a big no-no and considered as "imports into the state... any large capacity magazine conversion kit" if a California dude takes the kit to Front Sight in NV for training, then returns home to California after class with the same kit?

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  #9309  
Old 03-22-2018, 5:31 AM
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Couldn't find it when I ran a search but is it a big no-no and considered as "imports into the state... any large capacity magazine conversion kit" if a California dude takes the kit to Front Sight in NV for training, then returns home to California after class with the same kit?

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Once so called high capacity magazines leave the state (assuming grandfathered, pre-2000 legally possessed), then they cannot return.
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  #9310  
Old 03-22-2018, 8:52 AM
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Originally Posted by damon1272 View Post
Grading/environmental and rock removal all has to be done before wets go in such as storm drain first sewer and then water. After that electrical and comms go in. Grading isnít cheap and additional rwork Co removal gets expensive.
I totally get it. However, they should be starting to bing the utilities to the property. It is a long way from the transmission lines on the road to the property. Same for any of the other facilities. Think about it. How much KW is needed for the condos, the hotel, the conference center? How much water? Can you really do septic for 1000 or 2000 people?

I am glad to see some things move forward, but I think there should be MUCH more progress at this point.
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  #9311  
Old 03-22-2018, 9:16 AM
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Iíve said it before and Iíll say it again until I eat Crow Pie... He has no interest in actually building a hotel/villa/etc. It doesnít make financial sense. Heíll just keep moving the goal posts and stringing everyone along for more money.

For giggles, I went back and looked at his emails from years ago. Entertaining.
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Old 03-22-2018, 9:30 AM
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Personally I could care less about a hotel and other amenities. Ranges and bathrooms is all I care about and more classes.
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Old 03-22-2018, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
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I totally get it. However, they should be starting to bing the utilities to the property. It is a long way from the transmission lines on the road to the property. Same for any of the other facilities. Think about it. How much KW is needed for the condos, the hotel, the conference center? How much water? Can you really do septic for 1000 or 2000 people?

I am glad to see some things move forward, but I think there should be MUCH more progress at this point.
Understood. Benefit of the doubt and knowing how long things can take in construction they may need considerable upgrades to the electrical system to feed a development of that size for power and telco. Agreement can take years as with acquisitions of easements. Sewer would need to be a small package plant and not septic and may require small treatment of water for the site. Plus with all the environmental it boils down to cubic dollars. With this in mind ranges are cheap and can keep positive cash flow.
I have a friend with a test facility near the same size in an area in the middle of nowhere and he runs into these same issues for development. He operates his company in the same sort of way. A little improvement all the time to keep clients happy that you are making progress but you never hit what your original dream was.
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Old 03-22-2018, 12:16 PM
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Understood. Benefit of the doubt and knowing how long things can take in construction they may need considerable upgrades to the electrical system to feed a development of that size for power and telco. Agreement can take years as with acquisitions of easements. Sewer would need to be a small package plant and not septic and may require small treatment of water for the site. Plus with all the environmental it boils down to cubic dollars. With this in mind ranges are cheap and can keep positive cash flow.
I have a friend with a test facility near the same size in an area in the middle of nowhere and he runs into these same issues for development. He operates his company in the same sort of way. A little improvement all the time to keep clients happy that you are making progress but you never hit what your original dream was.
I think we are on the same page. It has just been a very long time and I (just me) don't think it is ever going to happen. Ranges make him money by moving students through and selling more upgrades. Everything else is just a pipe dream. At some point, I think he does a deal with some developer to build a hotel or whatever on HIS property. Not FS money someone else. I think the grading is for that purpose. Surprised there is a not an ask of the city or county to provide the infrastructure for free because of the "potential" tax revenue. Same for the power company. Perhaps a deal in place for a solar farm or wind on the property once everything is nice and flat. Maybe a small runway or heliport? Shuttle students from Vegas to the range and back? At the right price could be less expensive than renting a car and doing the hour drive over the hill. Tons of options for him other than building the "master plan".

For those in the know, what percentage of a large scale development is grading? How many years has he been taking about this? I seem to recall the famous 4th July message was in 2012, right? That is where this all started.
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Old 03-22-2018, 12:53 PM
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So for reference and without going through any records search as to where front sight is in the process if they even are.
Major developments take between 5-7 on average and sometimes longer if there encumburances on a property to work through zoning, planning, environmental, and state regulatory before they even begin a grading operation.
Just because he has a range out there doesnít give him the green light to make major usage changes or additions to the sight till all issues are resolved. Additionally he may have to do kitagation measures to get it in such as a light at the intersection on the highway. A light and intersection changes weigh road improvements would run 3-5 million alone. County may hit him to upgrade the road alll the way to Front sight road and may ask for another light.
Pretty much when development comes the developer has to open up the checkbook to get their project moved along or it will be tied up forever. Unless they have pull or can offer something to the County/state to move things along.
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  #9316  
Old 03-23-2018, 8:14 AM
NorthBay Shooter NorthBay Shooter is online now
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So, if my recall is correct about the starting point, then it was about 6 years ago. He had the master plan all drawn up. About a year later, there was a video with Dr. P and the team (developer, timeshare company, hotel guys and so forth) in a conference room saying they inked a deal and everything was a go. Next the big rocks and a re-design. Then some trucks to move dirt. 5 years later there are new ranges. Everything is a moving target.

Remember the Guardian upgrade? That was the membership level that FS was being turned over to, they were the guardians of front sight. They had the first names on the monument. They had the exclusive club on the point overlooking the facility. Every membership since then has been a one-up on that membership.

I wish all this would just stop and they would focus on training, new classes (like the new adv tactical) and private training. Put some merchandise in the proshop and open another facility someplace else.
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  #9317  
Old 03-23-2018, 4:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCU1670 View Post
Don't worry, was at the pro shop, almost nothing there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by damon1272 View Post
It was wiped out over a month ago when I was there.
I was wondering about that after credits were awarded to everyone in January. So if the Pro Shop is empty, what's left? Just background checks?
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Old 03-24-2018, 9:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Citizen_B View Post
I was wondering about that after credits were awarded to everyone in January. So if the Pro Shop is empty, what's left? Just background checks?


WiFi
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  #9319  
Old 03-25-2018, 3:41 PM
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Another no0b question from BK -- for a rifle class, how does that work with a bullet button and all the rest of the restrictions from the People's Republic? I have a regular mag release kit. Should I drive out to NV, drop it in for the class and then replace the BB before crossing back over?
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  #9320  
Old 03-25-2018, 3:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadKitty View Post
Another no0b question from BK -- for a rifle class, how does that work with a bullet button and all the rest of the restrictions from the People's Republic? I have a regular mag release kit. Should I drive out to NV, drop it in for the class and then replace the BB before crossing back over?
You could do that. Running a BB for the PR class would be a non-starter. You could also try a Raddlock. It's basically a bullet button that you can convert to a regular mag release with the turn of a screw.

http://www.raddlock.com
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