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  #1  
Old 01-18-2011, 10:58 AM
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Default 21453(A) Violation Cost?

Sup guys, this morning I got pulled over for not stopping all the way at a red light before making a right turn.

Funny thing is I was on my way to class. Im working on a criminal justice degree. lol

Any Ideas on what this is going to cost? Some places online say around $500. Thats no pocket change. Thats actually about the cost for next quarters classes.

I dont blame the officer. He is just doing his job. I will probably be going through the same deal in about a couple of years.


-------
21453. (a) A driver facing a steady circular red signal alone shall
stop at a marked limit line, but if none, before entering the
crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if none, then
before entering the intersection, and shall remain stopped until an
indication to proceed is shown, except as provided in subdivision
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Old 01-18-2011, 1:05 PM
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It varies by jurisdiction. Contact the court where you were cited to.
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  #3  
Old 01-18-2011, 1:12 PM
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Info I got in an email (UNverified but from a reliable source):

Traffic Ticket Fines (Effective 01/06/2011)
VC 12814.6 $214 Failure to obey license provisions.
VC 14600(A) $214 Failure to notify DMV of address change within 10 days
Note: The fine may be reduced with valid proof of correction.
VC 16028(A) $796 Failure to provide evidence of financial responsibility
VC 21453(A) $436 Failure to stop at a red signal.
VC 22349 $214 Unsafe speed, 1 to 15 miles over the limit.
VC 22350 $328 Unsafe speed, 16 to 25 miles over the limit.
VC 22450 $214 Failure to stop at a stop sign.
VC 22454(A) $616 Passing a school bus with flashing red signals.
VC 23123(A) $148 Driving while using a wireless phone not hands free, first offense.
VC 23123(B) $256 Driving while using a wireless phone not hands free, each subsequent offense.
VC 23123.5 $148 Driving while using a wireless device to send, read or write text.
VC 23124 $148 Minor driving while using a wireless phone.
VC 22500 $976 Parking in a bus loading area.
VC 22507(A) $976 Violation of disabled parking provisions, first offense.
VC 22507(B) $1876 Violation of disabled parking provisions, second offense.
VC 26708 $178 Unlawful material on vehicle windows.
VC 27150 $178 Adequate muffler required.
VC 27315 $148 Mandatory use of seat belts.
VC 27360 $436 Mandatory use of passenger child restraints.
Note: This fine may be reduced by completing a court authorized child seat diversion program .
VC 27400 $178 Headsets or Earplugs covering both ears.
VC 27803 $178 Violation of motorcycle safety helmet requirements.
VC 34506 $616 Commercial Driver - Log book violation.
VC 4000 $256 No evidence of current registration.
Note: The fine may be reduced with valid proof of correction.
VC 4159 $178 Notify DMV of change of address within 10 days.
Note: The fine may be reduced with valid proof of correction.
VC 5200 $178 Proper display of license plates.
Note: The fine may be reduced with valid proof of correction.
VC 9400 $178 Commercial weight fees due.
Note: The fine may be reduced with valid proof of correction
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  #4  
Old 01-18-2011, 1:17 PM
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http://www.sccsuperiorcourt.org/cour...fic/bail.shtml

Download the PDF; read the Penalty Assesment to figure out how to calculate the total fine.

I'll keep my snarky comments on the outrageous amount of the violations to myself...
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Old 01-18-2011, 3:08 PM
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Isn't turning right on a red signal without stopping 21453(b)? The linked bail schedule identifies it as such. There are, in some counties, major differences in cost depending on the violation.

As example, in the county where I live I believe a 'simple' red light is $100, then add the penalty assessments and fees which turns it instantly into $400. 21453(a) is a violation that typically gets a lot of extra penalties because it is very often a primary collision factor in intersection crashes where people get hurt or killed.

Right turn on red, by comparison and again in my county is $35, with the penalty assessments and fees turning it into $154.

The OP says he was stopped / cited for right turn on red. So if that's the case and the citation has 21453(a), it might be in his best interest to contact the court clerk and ask for an amendment / hearing. Might save him some money.
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Old 01-18-2011, 3:35 PM
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My son got a ticket for that a couple years ago in Union City, same situation, going to school & CJ major. By the time he was done, (fine and traffic school), it was about $500.
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  #7  
Old 01-18-2011, 5:10 PM
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It looks like the violation section would be 21453 (a) VC. 21453 (b) VC, just tells you that you can make a right turn after making the stop,

21453. (a) A driver facing a steady circular red signal alone shall
stop at a marked limit line, but if none, before entering the
crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if none, then
before entering the intersection, and shall remain stopped until an
indication to proceed is shown, except as provided in subdivision
(b).
(b) Except when a sign is in place prohibiting a turn, a driver,
after stopping as required by subdivision (a), facing a steady
circular red signal, may turn right, or turn left from a one-way
street onto a one-way street. A driver making that turn shall yield
the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk
and to any vehicle that has approached or is approaching so closely
as to constitute an immediate hazard to the driver, and shall
continue to yield the right-of-way to that vehicle until the driver
can proceed with reasonable safety.
(c) A driver facing a steady red arrow signal shall not enter the
intersection to make the movement indicated by the arrow and, unless
entering the intersection to make a movement permitted by another
signal, shall stop at a clearly marked limit line, but if none,
before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection,
or if none, then before entering the intersection, and shall remain
stopped until an indication permitting movement is shown.
(d) Unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian control signal as
provided in Section 21456, a pedestrian facing a steady circular red
or red arrow signal shall not enter the roadway.
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  #8  
Old 01-18-2011, 5:50 PM
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Look online on the county website, and they will post your ticket and cost there
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Old 01-18-2011, 7:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanky8601 View Post
It looks like the violation section would be 21453 (a) VC. 21453 (b) VC, just tells you that you can make a right turn after making the stop,
Except that (b) is an enforceable section, rather than "you can do it" section. Hence why it's on the bail schedule. The first sentence of (b) is the key...

Quote:
Except when a sign is in place prohibiting a turn, a driver,
after stopping as required by subdivision (a), facing a steady
circular red signal, may turn right, or turn left from a one-way
street onto a one-way street.
Stop is required, then may complete turn. The language about yielding to cross traffic before proceeding is separate.

Fail to stop at red light + make right hand turn = violation of 21453(b), IMO.
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Old 01-18-2011, 8:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by automatikdonn View Post
Look online on the county website, and they will post your ticket and cost there
Some counties do this and some don't. Also some counties have several judicial districts, each one charging different fees and court cost.
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  #11  
Old 01-19-2011, 12:20 AM
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We cite for the (a) section.

BTW, I'll save you $500. Change your major. CJ is pretty much an useless degree. Whatever you need to know, you will learn in the academy. If you don't want to be a cop or related profession, there are other useful majors out there.

Cops who have CJ's have nothing to fall back on. CJ doesn't give you a leg up either for the job... unless you are competing against GED or HS Diploma holders only.

Don't take it from me, ask any cop out there about a CJ degree.
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Old 01-19-2011, 5:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notorious View Post
We cite for the (a) section.

BTW, I'll save you $500. Change your major. CJ is pretty much an useless degree. Whatever you need to know, you will learn in the academy. If you don't want to be a cop or related profession, there are other useful majors out there.

Cops who have CJ's have nothing to fall back on. CJ doesn't give you a leg up either for the job... unless you are competing against GED or HS Diploma holders only.

Don't take it from me, ask any cop out there about a CJ degree.
He's right. Get a business degree.
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Old 01-19-2011, 8:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notorious View Post
We cite for the (a) section.
Rationale for that? Just curious and PM is okay.

Quote:
Don't take it from me, ask any cop out there about a CJ degree.
My degree is in AJ and I've done pretty well with it in the private sector. I did mine back in the day when it supposedly meant something as a LEO, it really doesn't any more. I do agree that there are far better degree choices, which is why I went back for a business degree.
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Old 01-19-2011, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDogatPlay View Post
Except that (b) is an enforceable section, rather than "you can do it" section. Hence why it's on the bail schedule. The first sentence of (b) is the key...

Stop is required, then may complete turn. The language about yielding to cross traffic before proceeding is separate.

Fail to stop at red light + make right hand turn = violation of 21453(b), IMO.
I stand corrected. 21453 (B) is both permissive and punitive. And you are correct the first line is important. Stopping is required as per 21453 (A), after you have complied with the (A) part, by stopping, you may make a right turn, if you do not violate the right of way of pedestrians or cars.

So, if you stopped as required by (A), but then violated a right a way of a pedestrian or vehicle the correct section to cite would be 221453 (B).

The OP stated he did not fully stop, I do not see where he says he violated someones right of way.
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Old 01-19-2011, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notorious View Post
We cite for the (a) section.

BTW, I'll save you $500. Change your major. CJ is pretty much an useless degree. Whatever you need to know, you will learn in the academy. If you don't want to be a cop or related profession, there are other useful majors out there.

Cops who have CJ's have nothing to fall back on. CJ doesn't give you a leg up either for the job... unless you are competing against GED or HS Diploma holders only.

Don't take it from me, ask any cop out there about a CJ degree.
Thanks for the info. I defiantly hear ya on having a different degree to fall back on. A while back ago I was thinking about looking into a fire science degree or Business degree. Both can get you a nice amount of $$$ in your pocket.
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Old 01-19-2011, 2:28 PM
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Fire Science is like the AJ degree. Useful (kind of) in in the field you're looking at getting into, but the academies will teach you what you need to know. Business is a good field, as is Accounting... why? you can get different jobs and if you know accounting... some LE jobs may open to you because they might just want someone that can "follow the money."

Oh, and expect that with court costs, fees, etc, on top of the $436 for the violation, add on about another $120-150. This ISN'T going to be nice to your pocketbook.
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Old 01-19-2011, 2:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notorious View Post
We cite for the (a) section.

BTW, I'll save you $500. Change your major. CJ is pretty much an useless degree. Whatever you need to know, you will learn in the academy. If you don't want to be a cop or related profession, there are other useful majors out there.

Cops who have CJ's have nothing to fall back on. CJ doesn't give you a leg up either for the job... unless you are competing against GED or HS Diploma holders only.

Don't take it from me, ask any cop out there about a CJ degree.
This is true. Business degrees are the best all round.
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Old 01-22-2011, 9:05 PM
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It'll be like you said $500-600 with traffic school etc. Now when you apply for a law enforcement job you'll have to keep record of this ticket.
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Old 01-24-2011, 3:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notorious View Post
We cite for the (a) section.

BTW, I'll save you $500. Change your major. CJ is pretty much an useless degree. Whatever you need to know, you will learn in the academy. If you don't want to be a cop or related profession, there are other useful majors out there.

Cops who have CJ's have nothing to fall back on. CJ doesn't give you a leg up either for the job... unless you are competing against GED or HS Diploma holders only.

Don't take it from me, ask any cop out there about a CJ degree.
I have, and they all 100% completely disagree with what you posted in my thread, and this one. You seem quick to discredit the CJ degree. Why??? If going into the LE career field it would seem logical to have an education in CJ as opposed to accounting, business, or psychology. Your reasoning seems flawed because you dont have any explanation other than, "it's useless, it's worthless, it won't help, ect.". Do you have any factual information, personal experience, or data as to why a CJ degree will not help you get a LE job?

This post might seem confrontational, but that is not the intended purpose. It seems to me, and I may be 100% wrong, but you have a Bias towards CJ degrees.
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Old 01-24-2011, 3:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sava View Post
This post might seem confrontational, but that is not the intended purpose. It seems to me, and I may be 100% wrong, but you have a Bias towards CJ degrees.
Heh, if anything he has a bias against CJ degrees. Like it has been said, if the cop career does not work out for any of a hundred reasons, another degree will be more useful in a different career. In addition, there is no evidence that a CJ degree is likely to improve chances getting an LE job.
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Old 01-25-2011, 6:13 PM
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If you want a degree just to have a degree for getting a leg up on those who don't have a degree, CJ works... so does liberal arts, dance, underwater basketweaving, etc.

Any degree holder can have an advantage against HS diploma or GED holders. However, it is not a guarantee if you are a total tard and the GED guy is super squared away.

Also, you get 12 units of CJ/AJ credit for your academy so it is not going to be anything new or different.

Now you got your AJ/CJ... now what? You become a cop. You might finish up 20-30 years and be gone. Now what? Be a security guard? Teach at the academy?

Okay, say you get injured and medically retired. Or you get fired for stupidity, don't make probation, get sick of the job and quit, get laid off... anything... now what?

Where does CJ get you then?

I'm just saying there are many degrees that will give you the advantage of having an advanced education when applying but will give you alternatives and a safety net.
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