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  #1  
Old 08-24-2019, 8:08 PM
Starslinger Starslinger is online now
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Default Could a shooting range rent out suppressors?

I know that there are some shooting ranges that will let customers rent fully automatic weapons for supervised use while at that range. What about suppressors? Let's say a person owned some land and wanted to start an outdoor shooting range with proper backstops and whatnot but noise was a concern because there was a residential area or a public use area not too far away. Would it be possible for that range to rent suppressors either for attachment to a customer's own gun or perhaps for use on a rental gun? In California? In other states?

Last edited by Starslinger; 08-24-2019 at 9:16 PM..
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  #2  
Old 08-24-2019, 8:21 PM
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It was my understanding that not all guns work correctly with silencers correctly. Won't cycle correctly?
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  #3  
Old 08-24-2019, 8:50 PM
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**suppressors......
No such thing as a "silencer"
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Old 08-24-2019, 9:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howie44 View Post
**suppressors......
No such thing as a "silencer"
You are right. I changed it.
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  #5  
Old 08-24-2019, 9:27 PM
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Potato?
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  #6  
Old 08-24-2019, 9:30 PM
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Silencer. Hiram Maxim called it a silencer, that's good enough for me.

As for legally, I'm not sure what the rules are regarding "lending" NFA stuff. ATF like to use the phrase "in control" a lot, which generally means next to the person borrowing it. It's probably why machine gun rental ranges want their employee with you even if you have more machine gun experience than they do.

Regardless, I would never allow my cans on a customer's gun. Too much chance of them half-assing muzzle devices like a 3 lug mount. You can't tell by looking at it if it's in spec, or even compatible with your can mount. Direct thread mounts need to be tightened occasionally or they will unscrew themselves, and you get baffle strikes. And inevitably people will forget how hot those bastids get and start suing you because they got severe burns.
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Old 08-24-2019, 9:32 PM
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They rent suppressed weapons here in Idaho, and machine guns, and suppressed machine guns. No stand alone suppressor rentals that i know of to try out on your gun though. That’s unfortunate because i’d actually like to try out a few different ones before buying and entering into 12-18 months of wait time hell.


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  #8  
Old 08-24-2019, 10:00 PM
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It’s a muffler

I would be concerned about liability

Over gas a semi auto rifle

Have to have a customer remove a brake or flash hider- how many customers can remove a brake???

Install and check that the threads are concentric with the bore- if a round hits the baffles- it will cause damage

If everyone has a muffler- it is good- If 1 person does not, then its the same as a straight piped porsche or harley..... you can hear your gun- just theirs


If noise in an issue- shooting tubes like they use in the Nordic countries.

A tube with the inside lined with carpet

Shooter shoots with muzzle inside the 3’ tube
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Last edited by hermosabeach; 08-26-2019 at 4:35 PM..
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  #9  
Old 08-24-2019, 10:46 PM
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i rent out my silencers. ya form 1 2 3 or 4 one and you will be typing silencer and not suppressor so those that get bent probably never saw those forms.

damaging a suppressor is no big deal. ive had baffle strikes. just order new parts and charge the customer for damage. a barrel is strong. a thin silencer is weak. non issue as the weakest part is farthest away and bends instead of explodes.

all nfa items must be in control of the owner or responsible person so they cannot be handed out unless there was a way to deny exit from the premises. not likely to have that happen.

i let clients use my suppressors on thier guns. i even have pistons for guns i dont own.

i also let clients put thier uppers on my selectfire lowers or install auto sears in thier host guns. ive got setups for ar hk and glocks.
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  #10  
Old 08-25-2019, 12:28 AM
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If you have a manufacturer SOT I guess you can order baffles, but if the tube gets messed up, fixing it can be delicate work. If a welded rifle can gets messed up it's basically a write-off because the manufacturers likely won't stand behind a warranty on rented cans.

If OP was thinking of renting silencers as an ordinary non-SOT it would be a nightmare. Buying new cans, which you'll probably need to do often with a business like that, takes the better part of a year. I'm a week short of 11 months waiting on my current one.

When it cools off, I may pay Phil a visit to rent a 7.62 can.

edit: Also might have to look into picking up one of those Flitelite belt fed uppers...

Last edited by sigstroker; 08-25-2019 at 12:31 AM..
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  #11  
Old 08-25-2019, 12:40 AM
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I have rented for $10 at reno guns and range but you must buy their bullets and they had no subsonics. Unsupervised other than a safety officer, but you leave your info at the counter. If you get a chance to go ask if they still rent out 1/2x28 9mm.
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  #12  
Old 08-25-2019, 1:07 AM
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Poway Weapons and Gear claim they have silencer rentals "coming soon": https://www.weaponsandgearrange.com/...rearm-rentals/
Scroll down to the bottom of "long guns".

"Soon", since 2016...

I thought silencers were illegal in CA?
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  #13  
Old 08-25-2019, 4:23 AM
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^^ nother guy that doesn't know that they are called suppressors no such thing as silencers. Probably calls large caps high caps (LOL)
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  #14  
Old 08-25-2019, 4:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
^^ nother guy that doesn't know that they are called suppressors no such thing as silencers. Probably calls large caps high caps (LOL)
Here is another guy that does not bother to go to the link provided, where he would notice the PW&G range refers to "silencers rentals". So, not my terms.

Silencers do not make guns silent, yet Silencerco and Dead Air Silencer Co manufacture and sell "silencers". The joke is on you.

https://silencerco.com/
https://deadairsilencers.com/products/sandman-s/


If I want to call suppressors "mufflers", are you going to correct me again because that is what you do? "Correct" people while using a disdainful tone; because you value post-count over everything else; even when you have nothing of substance to contribute to the discussion?

I offer information pertaining to the OP's question, and you do the equivalent of correcting grammar. Makes one wonder if you were blessed with a standard capacity cranium. Speaking of capacity; there are no high cap mags; only standard capacity. What is a large cap?

Last edited by subscriber; 08-25-2019 at 5:06 AM..
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  #15  
Old 08-25-2019, 4:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howie44 View Post
**suppressors......
No such thing as a "silencer"
Well at least calling it a "silencer" connotes a sound suppressor. Whereas, just "suppressor" could be referring to a flash suppressor...

So, no such thing as a suppressor; unless it is preceded by sound or flash.

Its all in the context, you say? That is because someone called it a silencer
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  #16  
Old 08-25-2019, 6:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subscriber View Post
I thought silencers were illegal in CA?
CA illegal for non-exempt persons. [PC 33410]

CA legal for exempt persons. [PC 33415]

Exempt persons = FFL/SOT [PC 33415(c)] and Gov/Mil/LE agencies [PC 33415(a) & (b)].
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Old 08-25-2019, 6:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
CA illegal for non-exempt persons. [PC 33410]

CA legal for exempt persons. [PC 33415]

Exempt persons = FFL/SOT [PC 33415(c)] and Gov/Mil/LE agencies [PC 33415(a) & (b)].
Thanks. I can see PW&G selling suppressors to LE, but their website claims to be renting them out imminently. Perhaps, they will rent them only to LE...
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  #18  
Old 08-25-2019, 6:41 AM
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It is a gun muffler.

https://patentimages.storage.googlea...ngs-page-1.png
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  #19  
Old 08-25-2019, 6:49 AM
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Phil, I have always wondered how you rent suppressors to customers. For a Californian, it’d be very hard to fit a suppressor onto his/her handgun unless he’s got a threaded barrel (i.e. it’s already a CA RAW.). To a rifle, the hassle of taking off the current muzzle device can’t always be simple, as some guns may take a gunsmith to remove. Those who have tried to remove their own muzzle devices would attest to that. Add that to the complexity of adjusting the customer’s gas system to the added suppressor and mitigating the gas blowback to the face. Do you find it easier to just rent them a gun that’s already suppressed?

BTW, I finally got the Saker 7.62 you sold me out of jail. Thanks!


Quote:
Originally Posted by subscriber View Post
Here is another guy that does not bother to go to the link provided, where he would notice the PW&G range refers to "silencers rentals". So, not my terms.

Silencers do not make guns silent, yet Silencerco and Dead Air Silencer Co manufacture and sell "silencers". The joke is on you.

https://silencerco.com/
https://deadairsilencers.com/products/sandman-s/


If I want to call suppressors "mufflers", are you going to correct me again because that is what you do? "Correct" people while using a disdainful tone; because you value post-count over everything else; even when you have nothing of substance to contribute to the discussion?

I offer information pertaining to the OP's question, and you do the equivalent of correcting grammar. Makes one wonder if you were blessed with a standard capacity cranium. Speaking of capacity; there are no high cap mags; only standard capacity. What is a large cap?


He reminds me of one of those old fudd gun store owners.


.
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Old 08-25-2019, 6:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marauder2003 View Post
Yes, And Maxim called it a silencer. If we complain loudly enough, perhaps he will take note:

https://patentimages.storage.googlea...ngs-page-1.png

https://patents.google.com/patent/US1018720

http://www.indaginibalistiche.it/en/...cer-manual-en/
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  #21  
Old 08-25-2019, 8:13 AM
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Get a thread adaptor and a truck oil filter?
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Old 08-25-2019, 8:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
^^ nother guy that doesn't know that they are called suppressors no such thing as silencers. Probably calls large caps high caps (LOL)
come out and shoot my savage mkiifvsr with a sico spectre ii and gemtech subs. I promise all you will hear is the click of the firing pin hitting the primer.

my p226 with obsidian 45 and 165gr subs is almost as quiet. the action of the slide makes it noisy.
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Old 08-25-2019, 9:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Phil, I have always wondered how you rent suppressors to customers. For a Californian, it’d be very hard to fit a suppressor onto his/her handgun unless he’s got a threaded barrel (i.e. it’s already a CA RAW.). To a rifle, the hassle of taking off the current muzzle device can’t always be simple, as some guns may take a gunsmith to remove. Those who have tried to remove their own muzzle devices would attest to that. Add that to the complexity of adjusting the customer’s gas system to the added suppressor and mitigating the gas blowback to the face. Do you find it easier to just rent them a gun that’s already suppressed?

BTW, I finally got the Saker 7.62 you sold me out of jail. Thanks!






He reminds me of one of those old fudd gun store owners.


.
it is not easy. most guys buy thier own threaded barrel. not impossible but not easy. same with machine guns. they can waste a lot if time loading thier own ammo into belts and mags or use my preloaded stuff that i know will cycle.
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  #24  
Old 08-25-2019, 11:23 AM
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The other problem with renting them in CA is that the threaded barrels required are not legal in CA.
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Old 08-25-2019, 12:09 PM
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I don't know but it's dang fun! SilencerCo hybrid on 1911 is a hoot.

On 300blk with subs it sounds like a BB gun.

On AR 223 sound about like 22lr.
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  #26  
Old 08-25-2019, 2:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howie44 View Post
**suppressors......
No such thing as a "silencer"
There is such thing as a silencer.
One is designed to reduce the decibel volume of a shot, and the other is designed to decrease the velocity of a bullet. From a practical perspective the end result is essentially the same thing.
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Old 08-25-2019, 2:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starslinger View Post
I know that there are some shooting ranges that will let customers rent fully automatic weapons for supervised use while at that range. What about suppressors? Let's say a person owned some land and wanted to start an outdoor shooting range with proper backstops and whatnot but noise was a concern because there was a residential area or a public use area not too far away. Would it be possible for that range to rent suppressors either for attachment to a customer's own gun or perhaps for use on a rental gun? In California? In other states?
Go to Vegas or Reno. A mear 4 hour drive from Bay Area or LA. You can shot most anything including Automatic guns, Suppressors, and Off Roster Guns. Plus its cheaper than California Ranges and does not require you to take courses or own a gun. But only at their range. There are some outside ranges out there to that rent out guns as well.

American Shoot in Vegas and Reno Gun and Range come to mind.
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  #28  
Old 08-25-2019, 3:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
BTW, I finally got the Saker 7.62 you sold me out of jail. Thanks!
.
How long was the wait? I'm going on 11 months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiophil2 View Post
come out and shoot my savage mkiifvsr with a sico spectre ii and gemtech subs. I promise all you will hear is the click of the firing pin hitting the primer.

my p226 with obsidian 45 and 165gr subs is almost as quiet. the action of the slide makes it noisy.
Do you load those? Where do you find the bullets?

Have you seen the Hush Puppy Project? They do slide locks on Glocks and Smiths.
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Old 08-25-2019, 3:18 PM
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If noise in an issue- shooting tubes like they use in the Nordic countries.

A tube with the inside lined with carpet

Shooter shoots with muzzle inside the 3’ tube


A buddy of mine used something similar to snipe ground squirrels from his balcony. Works pretty darn well actually. I might fab one up for ranges where the lanes are close together.
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Old 08-25-2019, 4:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
He reminds me of one of those old fudd gun store owners.
.
One of the "Mothers of Calguns"
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Old 08-25-2019, 5:18 PM
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post


Do you load those? Where do you find the bullets?

Have you seen the Hush Puppy Project? They do slide locks on Glocks and Smiths.
My buddy that owns UNAMMO has them.

No idea about that project. Glocks are lousy to suppress so it makes sense they want to lock the slide. Change to sig or hk and most of that problem is gone.

I have great success with browning 147gr. it is slower than most 147. I want to try the fiocchi 158 but I have too much browing and 165 gr ammo still.
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Old 08-25-2019, 5:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TurboChrisB View Post
The other problem with renting them in CA is that the threaded barrels required are not legal in CA.
Do silencer require special threads?

I have a few long guns that are threaded. I never really understood what the big deal was with them until I read something about guys hunting with them. It makes all the sense in the world to use for hunting.
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Old 08-25-2019, 8:32 PM
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Originally Posted by golfish View Post
Do silencer require special threads?

I have a few long guns that are threaded. I never really understood what the big deal was with them until I read something about guys hunting with them. It makes all the sense in the world to use for hunting.
No but a threaded barrel on a pistol is illegal in CA. Yes, they totally make sense for hunting AND for recreational use on pistols. I was told they were regulated back in the day because the claim was it made it difficult for a game warden to catch a poacher because it made it harder to pinpoint where the shots were coming from.
I sincerely doubt that many poachers used em so, even if true they likely just made up a reason I'm betting.
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Old 08-25-2019, 9:33 PM
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Originally Posted by subscriber View Post
Thanks. I can see PW&G selling suppressors to LE, but their website claims to be renting them out imminently. Perhaps, they will rent them only to LE...
They did rent them at the Expo a few years ago, their guns, their ammo, it was a "sampling" type shoot, a few rounds through 3 or 4 different guns. But their website has never been great so it doesn't surprise me if they had intended to but didn't end up getting the permits to buy any. Not sure if the ones they rented previously were actually theirs as there were a bunch of vendors with stuff. I might actually go there more often if they did rent them.
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Old 08-25-2019, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
How long was the wait? I'm going on 11 months.
.
The ATF has been predictable at 11 months for me. Chin up, your turn is coming very soon.

Which brings up another topic, the Form 4 game. You invest for the long term and buy cans at a regular pace, say every three or every other month. Once your 11 months are up and the first one comes, you can count on the next one coming!

The only problem is that when your stamp arrives, your can is no longer the “hot product” people talk about on the forums. Only FFL/SOTs get to shoot those, you get yours when it’s already last year’s news .

Of course if you’re lucky, your FFL/SOT has a range you can have conjugal visits with the cans.

There’s are rumors of ATF doing “batch processing” of cans that if you have 10 or more cans pending, they’d process and approve them all at once


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  #36  
Old 08-26-2019, 1:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiophil2 View Post
My buddy that owns UNAMMO has them.

No idea about that project. Glocks are lousy to suppress so it makes sense they want to lock the slide. Change to sig or hk and most of that problem is gone.
I plan to get a threaded barrel for my P320.

Quote:
I have great success with browning 147gr. it is slower than most 147. I want to try the fiocchi 158 but I have too much browing and 165 gr ammo still.
I bought some American Eagle 147 during an earlier rebate. It went super through my 16" AR, which I guess is to be expected. I got it mostly to shoot through my friend's subgun.
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Old 08-26-2019, 2:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfish View Post
Do silencer require special threads?

I have a few long guns that are threaded. I never really understood what the big deal was with them until I read something about guys hunting with them. It makes all the sense in the world to use for hunting.
There are semi-standard threadings depending on bore diameter. Like for .223's pretty much everyone assumes the standard AR threads, so you just have to twist off your flash hider/muzzle brake. There are a couple different ones for 9mm, plus some foreign companies use metric threads.

edit: wrt hunting, there are some silencers made now with hunting in mind. They are lighter, cheaper, and less robust because the assumption is that you'll fire a handful of rounds at a time instead of mag dumps. Many states now allow hunting with silencers. Back when I used to hunt, they were illegal to hunt with in my state, but allowed now. There are pros and cons - rifles will often be more accurate with a can, and there is somewhat of a muzzle brake effect with them. Of course, some that take a quick detach mount use a muzzle brake which not only lessens recoil but helps the can to last longer because the blast is partly deflected internally. Win win. The cons are obvious - the cost and the length.

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Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
The ATF has been predictable at 11 months for me. Chin up, your turn is coming very soon.

Which brings up another topic, the Form 4 game. You invest for the long term and buy cans at a regular pace, say every three or every other month. Once your 11 months are up and the first one comes, you can count on the next one coming!
Yeah, my last one came in March, which just seems to make this wait longer.

Quote:
The only problem is that when your stamp arrives, your can is no longer the “hot product” people talk about on the forums. Only FFL/SOTs get to shoot those, you get yours when it’s already last year’s news .

Of course if you’re lucky, your FFL/SOT has a range you can have conjugal visits with the cans.

There’s are rumors of ATF doing “batch processing” of cans that if you have 10 or more cans pending, they’d process and approve them all at once


.
I haven't heard of much anything new in the last two years except modular cans. I don't want one of those because they all leak a little from each joint, which obviously makes them louder. My next one will probably be a .30 can. I tried running Blackout through a pistol can, but it was just way too damn loud, regardless of what some forum guys told me.

I'm thinking of running future cans through a different FFL that takes potential and current customers out into the desert once a month. If you have one in jail with him, you can shoot it on those trips. That's a lot better than a range because you don't have 20 people blasting unmuffled guns next to you.

Last edited by sigstroker; 08-26-2019 at 2:14 AM.. Reason: hunting can info
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  #38  
Old 08-26-2019, 4:38 AM
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They rent suppressed weapons here in Idaho, and machine guns, and suppressed machine guns. No stand alone suppressor rentals that i know of to try out on your gun though. That’s unfortunate because i’d actually like to try out a few different ones before buying and entering into 12-18 months of wait time hell.


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MidStar Firearms in Middleton ID has a pretty good selection of cans in stock and will let you try them on your host. They have a small test range right outside the building. You can also test out different guns you're looking to purchase.
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Old 08-26-2019, 5:44 AM
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Old 08-26-2019, 5:58 AM
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MidStar Firearms in Middleton ID has a pretty good selection of cans in stock and will let you try them on your host. They have a small test range right outside the building. You can also test out different guns you're looking to purchase.


Thank you for that. I actually haven’t been in there yet but definitely will now. I love the thought of being able to try a couple different cans before I purchase.


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