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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #1  
Old 08-24-2019, 4:47 AM
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Default Considering rebarrel (Marlin XS7 in .308) to 6.5CM

It's currently a hunting barrel and while it does that job alright, even with premium ammunition I have trouble getting any consistent one inch groups. After a fair bit of research, it seems .308 really can't do anything that 6.5CM can't do. I have all the reloading stuff for both. My partner has a Savage model 10 in .308 so my reloading gear won't be wasted. I already have a 6.5CM but it's pretty heavy and I really don't relish the idea of lugging it around in the field. I've already put the marlin in a new stock (though I would need to ream out the barrel channel to put a heavier barrel in it).

Is there any reason not to chamber it in 6.5CM? For one thing, the bullets are cheaper (.264 < .307) though that'll take time to repay. But with a decent quality barrel (and the XS7 can supposedly take a Savage model 10 barrel with minimal gunsmithing), I could get a pretty decent hunting rifle that can also shoot target worthy groups, without weighing nearly as much as my Howa HCR.

I know the marlin is cheap. But so far the action is great, and I actually really like the trigger. Even with the stock and barrel I'm still well below $1000. Gunsmithing might put it around there though.

This is what inspired me to post (same price regardless of chambering), but I would consider other manufacturers and this has been on my mind for a while.

https://www.eabco.net/EABCO-Accuracy...e_p_15624.html

https://www.eabco.net/EABCO-Accuracy...e_p_15630.html

The beautiful beast that probably shouldn't go hunting.



Mine is on top.




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Old 08-24-2019, 5:32 AM
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Letís assume (hypothetically) that your idea takes your rifle from 1 moa to .75 moa. How does that change how you will hunt with it?

IMO, your idea is throwing money at a non-existent problem. You already have a target rifle, so use that one to shoot little groups and leave the .308 alone.


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Old 08-24-2019, 6:08 AM
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Since you reload.
Why not develop a load for that rifle.
Bullet and powder selection should solve your shot grouping.
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Old 08-24-2019, 7:10 AM
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Originally Posted by baih777 View Post
Since you reload.
Why not develop a load for that rifle.
Bullet and powder selection should solve your shot grouping.
I've already thrown quite a bit of money into load development. Not that I've given up, but even with good bullets (165sgk,168smk, ELD-M, H-168BTHP-M, and the entire string of powder charges in 0.3gr increments, the BEST I got was 1". The worst was more like 3.

I'll try some lighter bullets.
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Old 08-24-2019, 7:20 AM
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How much is it for a new barrel and gun smith?
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Old 08-24-2019, 8:35 AM
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That rifle a 12 twist ?
Try 150 gr
Varget
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  #7  
Old 08-24-2019, 10:16 AM
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Default Considering rebarrel (Marlin XS7 in .308) to 6.5CM

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Originally Posted by FishnHunt View Post
How much is it for a new barrel and gun smith?


"Installation Service is Available - If you'd like us to install your EABCO Accuracy Barrel, it's a reasonable $30 for the install plus $65 to inlet your forend (if needed)." +$259 for the barrel.


Quote:
Originally Posted by baih777 View Post
That rifle a 12 twist ?
Try 150 gr
Varget


It did shoot as well as anything with federal 147gr soft point. Worth a shot. I'll get some 130/150gr lead free ammo for hunting and give it a go. Also have 5lbs of varget

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Last edited by Exdc; 08-24-2019 at 10:19 AM..
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  #8  
Old 08-24-2019, 10:53 AM
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I’d just sell it and get a tikka CTR in 6.5cm. That way you know it’ll shoot and you won’t have the same issue with a new barrel. Still light enough to hunt with as well.
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Old 08-24-2019, 11:01 AM
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The accuracy you are getting is just fine for hunting.
The bullets you are trying just suck for hunting. If hunting Ca you need a non-lead bullet.
I have shot a few of those rifles and all have shot well using hunting bullets.
308win- 130 or 150gr Barnes TTSX. Forget ladders and load using max BARNES data. In the 308 I would use 130gr TTSX in the 308win. Use the TTSX and not the TSX for more reliable expansion.

Rules-1) select a lighter weight bullet because the non-lead will act like a lead core bullet 30% heavier--130TTSX = 169 lead core
2) push them FAST-The faster you push them the better the terminal performance and they are usually more accurate
3) non-lead bullets NEED lots of bullet jump- Load the Barnes so the top relief groove is just showing. I have a couple of rifles that must be even deeper for accuracy. My Weatherby rifles have over 1/4" jump and will put 5 shots touching at 100 yards. Bullet jump also helps keep spike pressures down.
4) super clean your barrel after shooting regular jacketed bullet. The shoot Barnes and you will get better accuracy and not have fouling. I have a 7-08 with about 200 rounds shot and have not cleaned it. Still shoots ragged hole groups. To clean that means no #9. I start with Wipe-Out(should use this for any firearm and bullets) and if need be a 2nd application if a lot of stuff comes out the 1st time. Then Sweets 7.62 or Barnes CR-10 and let set 10 min. Then Butches Bore Shine, one of the Montana products, Tetra-gun solvent, shooters choice or such. All are used with patches and usually no brush is needed. Then if not using it for several weeks a patch with gun oil--I use Tetra-Gun oil

I am not trying to insult you but can the rifle outshoot you? As an RSO and instructor I have often seen people shoot and say the rifle is off and yet I shoot it and get a tiny group.
What are you using as a rest? Bags in front and rear or? Is the barrel resting on whatever you are using as a rest?
What scope are you using? Cheap scopes can cause trouble. IS the scope mounted very high? I see this all the time and when that is the case you cannot get a good cheek weld and accuracy sucks.

I also have excellent load data for Nosler 150gr PAR, 130gr HP Speer(my favorite deer/pronghorn bullet and 130 or 150gr TTSX.
Using non-lead bullets the 308 is better than the 6.5 in my opinion. I do shoot 25/6.5/7mm/30/338 and 45cal rifles using several different cartridges in most of the calibers.

Last if you are near the Modesto area I would be glad to help. PM me and I will give you my phone/address.
Have you double checked all scope ring/mount and stock screws?
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  #10  
Old 08-24-2019, 2:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty99 View Post
IMO, your idea is throwing money at a non-existent problem.

This.

I have an XL7 in Ď06 with the laminate stock. Itís super accurate. Itís the rifle Remington should have kept instead of killing it. Marlin made a great rifle, still probably the best ďbudgetĒ rifle. Only problem is that it doesnít have a detachable box mag.



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Old 08-24-2019, 5:42 PM
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I do not care if my hunting rifles have a removable box mag. In fact I kind of prefer them not to. This is my personal opinion others may vary
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  #12  
Old 08-24-2019, 5:58 PM
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You hunt with that?! Eww, have you no SOUL!?
Srsly, don’t throw any more money at that project, but a new Tikka and start anew!
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  #13  
Old 08-24-2019, 10:40 PM
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Default Considering rebarrel (Marlin XS7 in .308) to 6.5CM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Divernhunter View Post
The accuracy you are getting is just fine for hunting.
The bullets you are trying just suck for hunting. If hunting Ca you need a non-lead bullet.
I have shot a few of those rifles and all have shot well using hunting bullets.
308win- 130 or 150gr Barnes TTSX. Forget ladders and load using max BARNES data. In the 308 I would use 130gr TTSX in the 308win. Use the TTSX and not the TSX for more reliable expansion.

Rules-1) select a lighter weight bullet because the non-lead will act like a lead core bullet 30% heavier--130TTSX = 169 lead core
2) push them FAST-The faster you push them the better the terminal performance and they are usually more accurate
3) non-lead bullets NEED lots of bullet jump- Load the Barnes so the top relief groove is just showing. I have a couple of rifles that must be even deeper for accuracy. My Weatherby rifles have over 1/4" jump and will put 5 shots touching at 100 yards. Bullet jump also helps keep spike pressures down.
4) super clean your barrel after shooting regular jacketed bullet. The shoot Barnes and you will get better accuracy and not have fouling. I have a 7-08 with about 200 rounds shot and have not cleaned it. Still shoots ragged hole groups. To clean that means no #9. I start with Wipe-Out(should use this for any firearm and bullets) and if need be a 2nd application if a lot of stuff comes out the 1st time. Then Sweets 7.62 or Barnes CR-10 and let set 10 min. Then Butches Bore Shine, one of the Montana products, Tetra-gun solvent, shooters choice or such. All are used with patches and usually no brush is needed. Then if not using it for several weeks a patch with gun oil--I use Tetra-Gun oil

I am not trying to insult you but can the rifle outshoot you? As an RSO and instructor I have often seen people shoot and say the rifle is off and yet I shoot it and get a tiny group.
What are you using as a rest? Bags in front and rear or? Is the barrel resting on whatever you are using as a rest?
What scope are you using? Cheap scopes can cause trouble. IS the scope mounted very high? I see this all the time and when that is the case you cannot get a good cheek weld and accuracy sucks.

I also have excellent load data for Nosler 150gr PAR, 130gr HP Speer(my favorite deer/pronghorn bullet and 130 or 150gr TTSX.
Using non-lead bullets the 308 is better than the 6.5 in my opinion. I do shoot 25/6.5/7mm/30/338 and 45cal rifles using several different cartridges in most of the calibers.

Last if you are near the Modesto area I would be glad to help. PM me and I will give you my phone/address.
Have you double checked all scope ring/mount and stock screws?


Great feedback. I just got federal 150gr copper power shok. I'll try them out. Difficult to find projectiles to reload right now, and they didn't have the 130s anywhere near me preloaded.. I'm looking for the 130gr TTSX for the .308 and the 120 for my 6.5.

I only use SWFA scopes. Fixed 6,10,16,20 x42, and most recently I got the 5-20x50 HD. I think the 10x42 is currently on my Marlin. I have bubble levels on all of them. Either Vortex or SWFA brand (except the Howa, trying one with an AoF indicator).

Rifle is free floated, I never rest my barrel on anything, I'm using a bipod shooting prone, but I put the bipod on sandbags to reduce vibratory inconsistency and jump that usually goes with concrete or hard dirt. Rear is supported on a bag. No offense taken, I appreciate the thorough troubleshooting.



I can't say that I always shoot this well, but I have a pretty good group in a moderate wind at 200 yards. All 3 shot groups were less than .75 MOA using Hornady American Gunner. This was the last three shots of the day. When I switch scopes to my other rifles, they shoot just fine. No apparent play in the mount, and I used blue thread locker. Torqued to spec.




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Gun owners need to be the new illegals - undocumented firearm possessors if you will.
Legislator "logic":
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezrat View Post
Before long, the Feds via A.D.A. will probably require manufacturers to include Braille markings to accommodate blind shooters.....

Last edited by Exdc; 08-24-2019 at 11:04 PM..
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  #14  
Old 08-25-2019, 7:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Divernhunter View Post
I do not care if my hunting rifles have a removable box mag. In fact I kind of prefer them not to. This is my personal opinion others may vary


Maybe. But how many times have you been hunting and it turns into a counter-sniper operation? Canít ever be too prepared.


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Old 08-25-2019, 9:13 AM
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^^^ Just need one shot like I do when hunting game
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Old 08-25-2019, 3:21 PM
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Default Considering rebarrel (Marlin XS7 in .308) to 6.5CM

Back with photos from today. Fortunately (?) when I dropped my phone it landed on the non camera side... Still functional but the top right corner is black now... Think it's covered. Off to Verizon. First time breaking my phone screen...

Anyway... Can't say I'm impressed with how the rifle does with Federal copper only ammunition in 150gr.




100 yards, prone.

My 6.5 is doing very well with most of the match ammunition.

Same distance and position.









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Quote:
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"I want gay married couples to be able to protect their marijuana plants with guns." -Unknown (possibly Tim Moen)
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Gun owners need to be the new illegals - undocumented firearm possessors if you will.
Legislator "logic":
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezrat View Post
Before long, the Feds via A.D.A. will probably require manufacturers to include Braille markings to accommodate blind shooters.....

Last edited by Exdc; 08-25-2019 at 3:23 PM..
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Old 08-25-2019, 6:24 PM
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^^^ IF you are mixing regular jacketed bullets(Hornady) and pure copper bullets you cannot expect great accuracy from the copper bullets.
If you are near me I can help you tune it with handloads. I do not have 6.5Crudmoore dies as I load 6.5X55/264win mag and 6.5X300W. So you would need to buy a set of dies to make your handloads.
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Old 08-25-2019, 6:41 PM
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Default Considering rebarrel (Marlin XS7 in .308) to 6.5CM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Divernhunter View Post
^^^ IF you are mixing regular jacketed bullets(Hornady) and pure copper bullets you cannot expect great accuracy from the copper bullets.
If you are near me I can help you tune it with handloads. I do not have 6.5Crudmoore dies as I load 6.5X55/264win mag and 6.5X300W. So you would need to buy a set of dies to make your handloads.

I have forester dies for my 6.5 reloads. So you're saying that I can't go back and forth between different loads without a thorough cleaning? So far all my looking into LRPS says don't overclean.



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Gun owners need to be the new illegals - undocumented firearm possessors if you will.
Legislator "logic":
Quote:
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Before long, the Feds via A.D.A. will probably require manufacturers to include Braille markings to accommodate blind shooters.....
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Old 08-26-2019, 5:48 AM
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I have gone shooting with mono and cup/core and while the POI might be slightly off. It’s not affecting me accuracy wise if the gun likes the load and I do my part.
Does any factory Ammo shoot well in your 308?
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Old 08-26-2019, 8:41 AM
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I only use SWFA scopes. Fixed 6,10,16,20 x42, and most recently I got the 5-20x50 HD.
I think the 10x42 is currently on my Marlin.
Do all of these have adjustable parallax?
Do you understand the significance or parallax error to the ability to shoot tight groups?
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Old 08-26-2019, 8:51 AM
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So you're saying that I can't go back and forth between different loads without a thorough cleaning?
So far all my looking into LRPS says don't overclean.
You don't need to over-clean when you are only shooting one specific bullet type through a barrel for the life of the barrel.

If you switch brands/types, then it's common for you to either need to completely strip the barrel clean, or you will need many (20-30) rounds of the new type to settle the barrel in before it will shoot as well as it can.

So if you stuck with say Sierra Matchkings, you could swap from 168's to 175's to 190's with no issue because all of them share the same jacket material.
However, if you wanted to move to Hornady or Barnes bullets, it would be advised to completely clean the barrel and then foul it with the new bullet type before you start group testing.
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Old 08-26-2019, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Do all of these have adjustable parallax?

Do you understand the significance or parallax error to the ability to shoot tight groups?

The scopes do have parallax adjustment and I've made sure that the reticle appears in the same focal plane with the target.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FishnHunt View Post
I have gone shooting with mono and cup/core and while the POI might be slightly off. Itís not affecting me accuracy wise if the gun likes the load and I do my part.
Does any factory Ammo shoot well in your 308?

The best I've ever done with any factory ammunition is 1.3, with 147gr federal soft nose. I'm inclined to try some light weight match rounds and see what it does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
You don't need to over-clean when you are only shooting one specific bullet type through a barrel for the life of the barrel.

If you switch brands/types, then it's common for you to either need to completely strip the barrel clean, or you will need many (20-30) rounds of the new type to settle the barrel in before it will shoot as well as it can.

So if you stuck with say Sierra Matchkings, you could swap from 168's to 175's to 190's with no issue because all of them share the same jacket material.
However, if you wanted to move to Hornady or Barnes bullets, it would be advised to completely clean the barrel and then foul it with the new bullet type before you start group testing.

Sounds like metallurgy magic. I'll have to do some reading into this. Thanks for the information!




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  #23  
Old 08-26-2019, 12:03 PM
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Not magic. If you shoot regular bullets then Barnes(swift) you will get more fouling because the Barnes are pure copper and regular bullets are made from a harder alloy. That is the quick and dirty explanation.
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A 30cal will reach out and touch them. A 50cal will kick their butt.
NRA Life Member, NRA certified RSO & Basic Pistol Instructor, Hunter, shooter, reloader
SCI, Manteca Sportsmen Club, Coalinga Rifle Club, Escalon Sportsmans Club & NAHA Member, Madison Society member
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