Democrats, ALL OF THEM are enemies of the people,the Constitution and Rule of Law

[ronlglock]

Originally Posted by Aeneas

Wow. Somebody drank the Fern Gully Kool-Aid. You do know that the Erin Brockovich movie was a work of fiction, right?

Working with Edward L. Masry, a lawyer based in Thousand Oaks, California, Brockovich went on to participate in other anti-pollution lawsuits. One suit accused the Whitman Corporation of chromium contamination in Willits, California. Another, which listed 1,200 plaintiffs, alleged contamination near PG&E's Kettleman Hills compressor station in Kings County, California, along the same pipeline as the Hinkley site. The Kettleman suit was settled for $335 million in 2006.

In 2003, Brockovich received settlements of $430,000 from two parties and an undisclosed amount from a third party to settle her lawsuit alleging toxic mold in her Agoura Hills, California, home. After experiencing problems with mold contamination in her own home in the Conejo Valley, Brockovich became a prominent activist and educator in this area as well.

[OCEquestrian]

Originally Posted by Aeneas

Wow. Somebody drank the Fern Gully Kool-Aid. You do know that the Erin Brockovich movie was a work of fiction, right?

Originally Posted by ronlglock

Working with Edward L. Masry, a lawyer based in Thousand Oaks, California, Brockovich went on to participate in other anti-pollution lawsuits. One suit accused the Whitman Corporation of chromium contamination in Willits, California. Another, which listed 1,200 plaintiffs, alleged contamination near PG&E's Kettleman Hills compressor station in Kings County, California, along the same pipeline as the Hinkley site. The Kettleman suit was settled for $335 million in 2006.

In 2003, Brockovich received settlements of $430,000 from two parties and an undisclosed amount from a third party to settle her lawsuit alleging toxic mold in her Agoura Hills, California, home. After experiencing problems with mold contamination in her own home in the Conejo Valley, Brockovich became a prominent activist and educator in this area as well.

Hollywood calls what it produced a "dramatization". The "basic facts were accurate" but woven into a more "interesting" narrative for film.

[Aeneas]

Originally Posted by ronlglock

Working with Edward L. Masry, a lawyer based in Thousand Oaks, California, Brockovich went on to participate in other anti-pollution lawsuits. One suit accused the Whitman Corporation of chromium contamination in Willits, California. Another, which listed 1,200 plaintiffs, alleged contamination near PG&E's Kettleman Hills compressor station in Kings County, California, along the same pipeline as the Hinkley site. The Kettleman suit was settled for $335 million in 2006.

In 2003, Brockovich received settlements of $430,000 from two parties and an undisclosed amount from a third party to settle her lawsuit alleging toxic mold in her Agoura Hills, California, home. After experiencing problems with mold contamination in her own home in the Conejo Valley, Brockovich became a prominent activist and educator in this area as well.

Originally Posted by OCEquestrian

Hollywood calls what it produced a "basic facts were accurate" but woven into a more "interesting" narrative for film.

Yeah and Jesse Jackson gets companies to pay out tens of millions of dollars too.

According to one of my college professors, our very own CalTrans discovered that the toxins that Brockovich and her esteemed lawyer blamed PG&E for are naturally occurring. This was after the court case, and also after the movie. However, the money was paid, and the movie influenced and still does influence millions of half-wit Americans into thinking that evil corporations are destroying the environment and people's lives, and the ONLY savior is the Left with their big government plans.

[dfletcher]

Originally Posted by Judas530

Well as fun as this has been guys I didnt come here to change your politics. I know that we all have our own views and we probably arent going to do anything besides argue back and forth. I only stated my views so that you would know that I am a Democratic Voter who loves the second Amendment but dont agree with almost any other stance that the Republican party stands for.

I came here to let you know that I am not your enemy because my politics are different from yours. If you choose to believe that I am then that is on you but remember the more you trash the other side the more support you will lose and the more you will back yourself into a corner and the more isolated from the rest of society you will become. Nothing good can come from that.

I wish you guys would stop seeing the other side as your enemy but whatever, it's your choice and I got a life to live instead of arguing endlessly with you. I wish you the best and hope you come to your senses.

I won't use the word "enemy" - doesn't help the conversation. What counts is who we vote for, put in office to represent us and write laws. If one votes for Democrats then asserts they support the 2nd Amendment, it strikes me as beguiling themselves. In the same way a person who asserts they are pro-choice, but vote for pro-life Republicans. Or a person who states they support unions, but vote for politicians who craft "right to work" laws. If one supports same sex marriage can they logically vote for an evangelical legislator who would strip that right? Can a person have voted for, oh - David Duke or the late Robert Byrd, maybe Dick Russell, Strom Thurmond - and assert they're a supporter of civil rights? I guess, but they'd be deceiving themselves and others.

How would one be viewed if they posted on a pro-choice, or union or LGBTQ or civil rights forum and said "I support you but this is how I vote ......"? And for good measure, chastised those who disagreed with him.

You disagree with Republican politicians, one would presume you do not vote for them - that's fine. You disagree with Democratic politicians on the 2nd Amendment, but choose to vote for them. This indicates a level of 2nd Amendment "support" that is of a fairly low priority. Which again is fine, so long as one doesn't assert otherwise.

[dfletcher]

Originally Posted by Judas530

Robertfchew that's a terrible idea. Do you actually know many poeple that live off the system their while life? That's a fallacy. Poeple use the system to get back on their feet. You cant live a comfortable life off of public assistance ask any senior citizen living on Social Security, they cant even afford the basic neccessities. That welfare queen propaganda is utter BS. Welfare isnt meant to be a permanent situation. It's a hand up not a hand out. Why the hell would you ever consider taking anyone's right to vote away? What gives you the right to decide who should be allowed to vote? It's a right that ALL Americans have and shouldn't be taken away unless you commit a heinous crime and are deemed unfit to participate in society.

How would you feel if you fell on hard times and you had no choice but to ask for help and someone told you you couldn't participate in your American right to help shape your country because someone with more money deemed you unfit because you dont contribute enough. Come on man use your logic, not your emotion. That argument is junk man.

Actually, there is no "right to vote". It's a statutory privilege to be equally applied and not subject to invidious discrimination.

In case it matters, I grew up as a JFK and LBJ supporter. Worked for Humphrey in 1968, McGovern in 1972. My father worked in the Bureau of Budget, as it was called, from 1961 to 1965 getting Johnson's "Great Society" funded. As a kid I met both many times and was influenced by them, along with Sarge Shriver, HHH and many others seen in those old black & white newsreels of the day.

The "hand up" that Johnson envisioned has unfortunately been supplanted by the insidious handout. As you referenced people don't get rich or well off using it. They get just enough, a prison of subsistence living. Unfortunately too many adjust down to that rather than looking to escape it. Even worse - every person who takes but doesn't deserve it, takes from someone who does. With our sympathies and approval.

I should think that would be important to a person who asserts they care about the well being of others.

[pacrat]

The "hand up" that Johnson envisioned has unfortunately been supplanted by the insidious handout. As you referenced people don't get rich or well off using it. They get just enough, a prison of subsistence living. Unfortunately too many adjust down to that rather than looking to escape it. Even worse - every person who takes but doesn't deserve it, takes from someone who does. With our sympathies and approval.

^^^TRUTH^^^

Anyone naive enough to believe as JUDAS does. Need to open their mind and watch "RUNAWAY SLAVE" by Rev. C.L. Bryant. A former NAACP president in Tx.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runaway_Slave_(film)

Documents how Johnson's Welfare State evolved. And the detrimental affect on a productive society.

An overview of how the poor in America became enslaved by the Party of FREE CHIT

[robertfchew]

Originally Posted by dfletcher

Actually, there is no "right to vote". It's a statutory privilege to be equally applied and not subject to invidious discrimination.

In case it matters, I grew up as a JFK and LBJ supporter. Worked for Humphrey in 1968, McGovern in 1972. My father worked in the Bureau of Budget, as it was called, from 1961 to 1965 getting Johnson's "Great Society" funded. As a kid I met both many times and was influenced by them, along with Sarge Shriver, HHH and many others seen in those old black & white newsreels of the day.

The "hand up" that Johnson envisioned has unfortunately been supplanted by the insidious handout. As you referenced people don't get rich or well off using it. They get just enough, a prison of subsistence living. Unfortunately too many adjust down to that rather than looking to escape it. Even worse - every person who takes but doesn't deserve it, takes from someone who does. With our sympathies and approval.

I should think that would be important to a person who asserts they care about the well being of others.

You said it so much better than I could have. This dude is some upper middle class guy and never lived around or with people on welfare that's why he thinks it's a hand up. And no people like this do not care one bit about how the welfare class live, they only care that they have that holier than thou feeling.

[Offwidth]

Originally Posted by robertfchew

You must live one sheltered life. People absolutely do live their life off of welfare and generational welfare is a thing.

So you are ok with eliminating gun rights but not the right to vote for people who are unfit to make decisions that cost other people money and they directly benefit from? Can you be more hypocritical?

There is an interesting graph out there illustrating effects of wealth redistribution. Bottom 20% have majority of income coming from redistribution- variety of government subsidies. Most of them don’t work. Middle quantile works two to three time more. Their earned income is three times that of bottom quantile, but their net, as they don’t get redistribution is just 30% more.

Working three time more for 30% improvement in standard of living.

Top quantile earns 60 times that of bottom but nets only 5 times as much.

Of course Ds only talk about a few ultra rich, who don’t affect anyone in any way except to provide for gossip entertainment. Someone having a Ferrari does not make your Honda any less practical or slower.

[OCEquestrian]

Originally Posted by Offwidth

Someone having a Ferrari does not make your Honda any less practical or slower.

^^^^ Best comment in the thread!!!

[Robotron2k84]

Only if you regularly change the envy filter.

[Judas530]

Originally Posted by robertfchew

You said it so much better than I could have. This dude is some upper middle class guy and never lived around or with people on welfare that's why he thinks it's a hand up. And no people like this do not care one bit about how the welfare class live, they only care that they have that holier than thou feeling.

Hello all, I knew that I would be pissing into the wind when I joined this conversation but thought I'd give you an opinion that you guys dont usually get on here. I see alot of speculation on my background and social class so I'll bite.

I grew up in rural northern Ca to a working class family who had to live paycheck to paycheck. At 18 I had to drop out of high school my senior year to escape an abusive household and move into a tiny apartment and work fast food jobs to support myself.
I was able to join the Navy on a program that allowed poeple without diplomas to enlist. When I got out I joined the Laborers Union and did this till I was hurt on the job in 2007 by a negligent operator who hit me with a machine and screwed up my back and my neck. I was able to finish out the year in constant pain and knew my time in the union was about up. Then the 2008 recession hit.
I had to start working as a night clerk at a gas station making a dollar more than minimum wage. We lost our house and had to move into a tiny apartment in a low income neighborhood. At times we had to rely on food banks and food stamps. I was morally opposed to this but my children's wellbeing had to come before my pride. Without this help my family would have been devistated. We were only on assistance long enough to get back on our feet.
I went back to school long enough to get my GED as I didnt take it in the military because I had planned on finishing my last year of high school to get my diploma but that wasnt in the cards. Did this and got my Guard card and worked as a security guard until my wife became unexpectedly pregnant with our third child. I was only making about $500 every two weeks and instead of paying that into childcare (which would have taken my entire check and perhaps more) my wife and I decided that I would stay at home and care for our Daughter. This was not an easy transition but we made due.
During this time my Father in law (a lifetime Republican) got cancer and lost his job. He had to move and live off of social security and food stamps and Medicare. I watched him agonize as he tried to figure out how to pay for his medicine and basic needs as the Republicans tried to cut social programs that he relied on. Without these programs, which he paid into his entire career my mother in law and he would have been out on the street or had to rely on family. He died soon after and my mother in law had to move in with our sister in law and now subsidies on 1000 dollars a month that she gets from social security.
I am currently still at home with my kids but have been a full time student for the last two years at a local community college and I will graduate either this fall or next spring with 2 degrees. We still live paycheck to paycheck and life isnt easy but we manage. When I finish school I will be applying at my counties social services office so that I can help others who have fallen on hard times. I plan on doing this until I can get my Bachelor's degree and move into guidance counseling hopefully at my local college.
I just wanted to put this up because there was alot of speculation about my privilege and my social standing. I've been poor, I've been middle class, and am currently in the bottom income but not living off of government assistance. I have lived around poor poeple most of my life and seen their struggles, successes and failures. I have at times needed a hand up and realize now the importance of our social safety net and hope that you guys never fall on hard times and have to rely on it.

It's hard to reevaluate what you have believed your entire life but sometimes it's necessary. The second Amendment used to be my number one issue and I voted for politicians who supported it everytime. Now I realize that other issues have merit also. Do I want to see the second Amendment eroded or changed? Not at all. But I also realize that you cant just focus on one issue when voting at the cost of other issues that are also important to you. I vote Democrat because all the other issues weight more for me and I know that as the second amendment is impeded the courts come into play to restore balance. I dont see gun rights being abolished in the U.S. especially with a conservative majority in the supreme court. I do see regulation being a thing. Sometimes it will go too far such as our "safe' handgun list, micro stamping, ammunition laws, and unavailability of CCW licensing but that's where organizations like the NRA, Calguns and the courts come into play to reestablish balance. Thanks guys.

[Robotron2k84]

Used to be that support came from your neighbors, church and charity. Voting for people that continually strip God from our lives, wreck the family and community and sow distrust to where neighbors don’t even talk is quite the providence of the left.

Government subsidy is largely to blame for the poor outcomes of many people’s lives that take a worse turn. Everyone wants to have someone else take care of the problems instead of listening to God’s word and loving your neighbor. It’s more expedient to vote for the candidates that will throw money at the problem, whether it fixes it, or not. It’s hard to get off your rear and make a difference in someone else’s life, instead of just sitting on the couch watching your TV or phone.

Voting left gives most an excuse to keep doing what they’re doing, growing the govt. and taking more taxes and not engaging where they need to, from a position of love.

I’m very sorry to hear about your troubles and glad you found assistance and are turning your life into something greater.

You are the exception to the rule and have more fiber that those that would just accept the assistance without making an attempt or even succeeding.

[Californio]

My 4th GGF left Hardin, Kentucky with a group of people, one being Thomas Lincoln, they settled in Spencer County, Indiana, just after Indiana was admitted as a non-slave state, Thomas Lincoln and his son Abraham Lincoln were the farm next door. The one room schoolhouse for the community was located on my 4th GGF's property and his children and the Lincoln children went to school, along with children from the 40 families that made up the community. This family branch of my family and the Lincoln's later moved to Springfield Illinois.

Because of the stature of Abraham Lincoln, I enjoy a lot of historical genealogy done at the taxpayers expensive, as well a personal letters from Lincoln to members of this branch of my family before and after he was President in the Lincoln Archives.

I have 5 branches of my family that removed to Southern Indiana after 1816, it is fair to say they were abolitionists and they were sodbusters. I have a 3rd, 4th and 2 5th GGF from this lot that fought in the American Revolution from this group. I have more on my maternal side.

I lost my 2nd GGF a Lt Col. in the Civil War from this group, the Spencer County branch were Primitive Baptists, the rest were Presbyterian. Presbyterian Church outlawed slavery in 1800 for its congregations.

We have paid in blood, for the evolution of this County. Fought the Totalitarianism of Monarchy, National Socialists and Marxism.

When I see the undercover videos of Project Veritas and the Marxist ideology proffered by the Bernie Sanders inner circle and some misguided fool who most likely has no family history in the founding of this County, knows nothing of the Scots who were branded and disfigured by the English Crown and sold into slavery in the 1600-1740 British Colonies, I consider it a spit in the eye of my ancestors.

To be politically correct I have a 5th GGM, full blood Cherokee.

Totalitarianism is responsible for more human death, suffering and misery in human history and anyone that says they are going to vote for a Marxist as a solution to what ails us, is a example of how Plato's Republic Dies. Our educational system fails to teach our real history, much of it is not pretty or romantic, but it does highlight individuals that lived and made a difference, which is what America is all about.

The Democrat Party in my lifetime has been a race to the bottom. The unintended consequences of Democrat Party Policy are to strip human dignity from society, destroy God and cause failure.

[Alan Block]

You have letters from Lincoln to your family from after he was president? Where were they posted from?

[Judas530]

I see where your coming from Californio and I respect why you have the views you have. Your right, I cant trace my heritage back to the founding of America without a boat load of work as most of my family is gone at this point besides my immediate family that I created myself.
I never meant to try to sway anyone on this board as I know that we all have our own unique experiences and beliefs and we will all come to our own conclusions. I just wanted to give you all a bit of insight into mind of someone who supports the 2nd amendment yet votes Democrat for the most part.
I dont consider Bernie a socialist. I consider him a social democrat. While similar they are two different things. I have not seen the videos that you are referencing but I'll take a look at them and make up my own mind.
I want to be very clear on one thing, I'm not a Bernie Bro. I dont agree with all his views but enough of them to say if the vote was today he'd have mine. I think he has the best shot at winning the presidency in 2020 as opposed to Bidden or Warren and that is why I will vote for him if he turns out to be the candidate. If not then I will vote for whoever gets the nomination.

[Judas530]

I'd also like to see those Lincoln Letters. That's cool as hell.

[jj8325]

Originally Posted by Judas530

Hello all, I knew that I would be pissing into the wind when I joined this conversation but thought I'd give you an opinion that you guys dont usually get on here. I see alot of speculation on my background and social class so I'll bite.

I grew up in rural northern Ca to a working class family who had to live paycheck to paycheck. At 18 I had to drop out of high school my senior year to escape an abusive household and move into a tiny apartment and work fast food jobs to support myself.
I was able to join the Navy on a program that allowed poeple without diplomas to enlist. When I got out I joined the Laborers Union and did this till I was hurt on the job in 2007 by a negligent operator who hit me with a machine and screwed up my back and my neck. I was able to finish out the year in constant pain and knew my time in the union was about up. Then the 2008 recession hit.
I had to start working as a night clerk at a gas station making a dollar more than minimum wage. We lost our house and had to move into a tiny apartment in a low income neighborhood. At times we had to rely on food banks and food stamps. I was morally opposed to this but my children's wellbeing had to come before my pride. Without this help my family would have been devistated. We were only on assistance long enough to get back on our feet.
I went back to school long enough to get my GED as I didnt take it in the military because I had planned on finishing my last year of high school to get my diploma but that wasnt in the cards. Did this and got my Guard card and worked as a security guard until my wife became unexpectedly pregnant with our third child. I was only making about $500 every two weeks and instead of paying that into childcare (which would have taken my entire check and perhaps more) my wife and I decided that I would stay at home and care for our Daughter. This was not an easy transition but we made due.
During this time my Father in law (a lifetime Republican) got cancer and lost his job. He had to move and live off of social security and food stamps and Medicare. I watched him agonize as he tried to figure out how to pay for his medicine and basic needs as the Republicans tried to cut social programs that he relied on. Without these programs, which he paid into his entire career my mother in law and he would have been out on the street or had to rely on family. He died soon after and my mother in law had to move in with our sister in law and now subsidies on 1000 dollars a month that she gets from social security.
I am currently still at home with my kids but have been a full time student for the last two years at a local community college and I will graduate either this fall or next spring with 2 degrees. We still live paycheck to paycheck and life isnt easy but we manage. When I finish school I will be applying at my counties social services office so that I can help others who have fallen on hard times. I plan on doing this until I can get my Bachelor's degree and move into guidance counseling hopefully at my local college.
I just wanted to put this up because there was alot of speculation about my privilege and my social standing. I've been poor, I've been middle class, and am currently in the bottom income but not living off of government assistance. I have lived around poor poeple most of my life and seen their struggles, successes and failures. I have at times needed a hand up and realize now the importance of our social safety net and hope that you guys never fall on hard times and have to rely on it.

It's hard to reevaluate what you have believed your entire life but sometimes it's necessary. The second Amendment used to be my number one issue and I voted for politicians who supported it everytime. Now I realize that other issues have merit also. Do I want to see the second Amendment eroded or changed? Not at all. But I also realize that you cant just focus on one issue when voting at the cost of other issues that are also important to you. I vote Democrat because all the other issues weight more for me and I know that as the second amendment is impeded the courts come into play to restore balance. I dont see gun rights being abolished in the U.S. especially with a conservative majority in the supreme court. I do see regulation being a thing. Sometimes it will go too far such as our "safe' handgun list, micro stamping, ammunition laws, and unavailability of CCW licensing but that's where organizations like the NRA, Calguns and the courts come into play to reestablish balance. Thanks guys.

Thanks for sharing. You have had some experiences I cannot relate to, but does give some perspective on your viewpoints. I wish you the best moving forward!

[Californio]

https://www.loc.gov/collections/abra...is-collection/

Originally Posted by Alan Block

You have letters from Lincoln to your family from after he was president? Where were they posted from?

[Californio]

https://www.projectveritasaction.com...reign-of-terr/

https://www.projectveritasaction.com...ws-are-shared/

https://www.projectveritasaction.com...raises-the-so/

Originally Posted by Judas530

I see where your coming from Californio and I respect why you have the views you have. Your right, I cant trace my heritage back to the founding of America without a boat load of work as most of my family is gone at this point besides my immediate family that I created myself.
I never meant to try to sway anyone on this board as I know that we all have our own unique experiences and beliefs and we will all come to our own conclusions. I just wanted to give you all a bit of insight into mind of someone who supports the 2nd amendment yet votes Democrat for the most part.
I dont consider Bernie a socialist. I consider him a social democrat. While similar they are two different things. I have not seen the videos that you are referencing but I'll take a look at them and make up my own mind.
I want to be very clear on one thing, I'm not a Bernie Bro. I dont agree with all his views but enough of them to say if the vote was today he'd have mine. I think he has the best shot at winning the presidency in 2020 as opposed to Bidden or Warren and that is why I will vote for him if he turns out to be the candidate. If not then I will vote for whoever gets the nomination.

[dfletcher]

Originally Posted by Judas530

It's hard to reevaluate what you have believed your entire life but sometimes it's necessary. The second Amendment used to be my number one issue and I voted for politicians who supported it everytime. Now I realize that other issues have merit also. Do I want to see the second Amendment eroded or changed? Not at all. But I also realize that you cant just focus on one issue when voting at the cost of other issues that are also important to you. I vote Democrat because all the other issues weight more for me and I know that as the second amendment is impeded the courts come into play to restore balance. I dont see gun rights being abolished in the U.S. especially with a conservative majority in the supreme court. I do see regulation being a thing. Sometimes it will go too far such as our "safe' handgun list, micro stamping, ammunition laws, and unavailability of CCW licensing but that's where organizations like the NRA, Calguns and the courts come into play to reestablish balance. Thanks guys.

If you want others to self examine the suggestion works both ways. And we have to accept that others will come to a different result. That doesn't mean they are stubborn or closed minded, it simply means they decided differently. As you have decided differently than others here.

To be clear, I don't suggest that you vote for Republicans. I'd hope you and "gun owning Democrats" would make an effort to change your politicians - that possibility or endeavor isn't offered in any of your posts. And it's something Democrats gun owners never attempt, using their votes to persuade their party leaders to change. I understand that's more of a challenge than simply saying "I won't vote for Republicans" but that it is neither offered nor tried is telling.

[BobB35]

Originally Posted by Judas530

Robertfchew that's a terrible idea. Do you actually know many poeple that live off the system their while life? That's a fallacy. Poeple use the system to get back on their feet. You cant live a comfortable life off of public assistance ask any senior citizen living on Social Security, they cant even afford the basic neccessities. That welfare queen propaganda is utter BS. Welfare isnt meant to be a permanent situation. It's a hand up not a hand out. Why the hell would you ever consider taking anyone's right to vote away? What gives you the right to decide who should be allowed to vote? It's a right that ALL Americans have and shouldn't be taken away unless you commit a heinous crime and are deemed unfit to participate in society.

How would you feel if you fell on hard times and you had no choice but to ask for help and someone told you you couldn't participate in your American right to help shape your country because someone with more money deemed you unfit because you dont contribute enough. Come on man use your logic, not your emotion. That argument is junk man.

Your views are misguided an ill informed. I blame the "education" you received. Starting with this - for the 1st 160 years of this country there was no govt safety net and people did just fine. Having more people vote is not a better thing, if those people voting are ignorant or not informed. The founders knew this and that is why they set up a system that on works with and informed, involved electorate. We have neither and the system is falling apart just as deTocqueville predicted.

As far as being left alone - If you vote for Dems you are asking for a complete and total control of you're life...sorry you don't see that. You can never lift others up by destroying the lives of others and controlling the. I'm sad that the media has done such a hit job against conservatives, but it is what it is.

As far as tax rates...I'll go back to the tax rate in 1912. The one you point to in 1950 has so many writeoffs, nobody ever paid it....the amount of money collected by the government stays static.

No use in arguing about this...you believe what you believe, conservatives believe what they believe. Only one is right... What has yet to occur are the consequence of what each believes. It takes a long time to kill a country...I would just point to all of the cities and states that ahve been run by one side or the other for a long period of time to indicate who is right and who isn't. If you vote for Dems...prepare for more Detroit, SF and such in the future..

[Californio]

Well Lincoln was self-educated, my people just had a limited education and they spelled as such, which tells you about Lincoln, after he climbed the ladder he did not look down at the sod busters because he had been one. Lincoln did not have a relationship with his father but did with his sister and step-mother, seems his father was an SOB.

https://www.nps.gov/libo/index.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincol...ional_Memorial

https://www.in.gov/idoa/2782.htm

I downloaded a Professional Study commissioned by the NPS on Little Pigeon, complete with a diagram of all the homesteads and families in the community, but cannot seem to find it today.

Edit:

In depth study of Indiana and Lincoln in Spencer County, takes a few chapters to get to the meat, Chapter 7 for those who want to skip ahead.

https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/onli...s/abstract.htm

Shows the 28 home sites and the names of the men, one my 4th GGF.

https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/onli.../hrs/hrs6a.htm

Originally Posted by Judas530

I'd also like to see those Lincoln Letters. That's cool as hell.

[OCEquestrian]

Originally Posted by Californio

https://www.projectveritasaction.com...reign-of-terr/

https://www.projectveritasaction.com...ws-are-shared/

https://www.projectveritasaction.com...raises-the-so/

The fact that this guy has not been disavowed and terminated says all I need to know about Bernie Sanders and his followers. It would seem that if Bernie is elected, Judas of the 530 area code might be facing all of us supporters of the 2A and the Constitution on the field of battle. I doubt he and Bernie's antifa friends will fare well...

[BobB35]

Originally Posted by Judas530

A Democrat didnt start WW2. They didnt even throw the first punch when entering the war. We entered WW2 when Pearl Harbor was attacked. Should we not have? Should we have just rolled over and let the Japanese attack us? FDR made the right decision as any other President would have regardless of party.

I get why Kennedy entered Vietnam. He was trying to stop communists from taking over the country. Do I agree? Really hard to backseat that decision. And ya LBJ made it alot worse. I dont disagree with you. America has a foreign war problem. We have been at war almost constantly since WW2 and this needs to end. I dont care if it's a Republican or A Democrat calling for war. If we arent being attacked we shouldn't be waging foreign wars.

You really don't' know the history of what was happening and what the US was doing at that time. Sad

[Californio]

Project Veritas posted some more yesterday, undercover remarks made by another of Bernie's Lt's, scary stuff, links in OffTopic.

Originally Posted by OCEquestrian

The fact that this guy has not been disavowed and terminated says all I need to know about Bernie Sanders and his followers. It would seem that if Bernie is elected, Judas of the 530 area code might be facing all of us supporters of the 2A and the Constitution on the field of battle. I doubt he and Bernie's antifa friends will fare well...

[Judas530]

Originally Posted by BobB35

You really don't' know the history of what was happening and what the US was doing at that time. Sad

Please enlighten me. If you can give me a somewhat unbiased source I really would like to know what you mean and I will take the time to go over it and reconsider my stance. I dont claim to be right and I dont claim to know all the facts about everything that has happened in the U.S. or abroad. I am not opposed to reevaluating my stance if what I have been taught is wrong and more credible facts come to light.

[Judas530]

Originally Posted by OCEquestrian

The fact that this guy has not been disavowed and terminated says all I need to know about Bernie Sanders and his followers. It would seem that if Bernie is elected, Judas of the 530 area code might be facing all of us supporters of the 2A and the Constitution on the field of battle. I doubt he and Bernie's antifa friends will fare well...

Are you honestly advocating treason and open rebellion of the lawful government if Bernie Sanders comes to power? Let's not go down that road man.

[Californio]

Bernie's people are also

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zpCVM0delQ

Originally Posted by Judas530

Are you honestly advocating treason and open rebellion of the lawful government if Bernie Sanders comes to power? Let's not go down that road man.

[Offwidth]

Originally Posted by Judas530

Are you honestly advocating treason and open rebellion of the lawful government if Bernie Sanders comes to power? Let's not go down that road man.

Of course not. "RESIST" is ok only for the lefties.

[Judas530]

Resistance and Revolution are two very different things. I dont care what a staffer working on an election campaign believes. That is an individual with zero political power. When Senators or poeple of influence start using this kind of language then I'll be concerned.

I only had time to watch two of those project veritas videos and what I got out of it was a campaign staffer who doesn't speak for Bernie, at a bar (sounding partially drunk)making wild claims about how the people would react if Bernie didnt get the nomination. And lots of crazy talk about reeducation and Gulags.
I dont believe for a second that Bernie Sanders thinks that poeple should be put into reducation camps nor do I believe that the American public would support this.
These staffers have zero political influence. Are some of them crazy? Ya Bat**** crazy.
Saying that a staffer speaks for the nominee is a rediculous argument. Someone earlier mentioned them as being his inner circle. Field Managers are not his inner circle they are low level workers doing leg work trying to get him elected.

[Judas530]

If you worked on the Trump campaign would that mean that you spoke for him? Of course not

[CessnaDriver]

Another thing, the time to break bread is over. The time to understand is over. I've tried. It's pointless. They don't give a crap about compromise or understanding us. It's their way only. PERIOD Every time it's done with democrats the fug us over. Bipartisanship is a unicorn. I want them extinct as a party of any force. It should be Republicans Vs Libertarians trading power back and forth.

[Offwidth]

Originally Posted by Judas530

If you worked on the Trump campaign would that mean that you spoke for him? Of course not

Yes. It is the definition of working for a campaign. And if what you speak is not reflecting the views of the campaign, you should be kicked out yesterday.

Which was not done.

Bernie is a Trotskyist.

[OCEquestrian]

Originally Posted by Judas530

Are you honestly advocating treason and open rebellion of the lawful government if Bernie Sanders comes to power? Let's not go down that road man.

You don't think that Bernie Sanders operative isn't advocating treason and crimes against the people?

Why not .. your side has been advocating that and worse since 2016. Deep state operatives and the government have been working against the presidents legal agenda in directives since 2016. That is a textbook definition of treason .

[OCEquestrian]

Originally Posted by Judas530

Resistance and Revolution are two very different things. I dont care what a staffer working on an election campaign believes. That is an individual with zero political power. When Senators or poeple of influence start using this kind of language then I'll be concerned.

I only had time to watch two of those project veritas videos and what I got out of it was a campaign staffer who doesn't speak for Bernie, at a bar (sounding partially drunk)making wild claims about how the people would react if Bernie didnt get the nomination. And lots of crazy talk about reeducation and Gulags.
I dont believe for a second that Bernie Sanders thinks that poeple should be put into reducation camps nor do I believe that the American public would support this.
These staffers have zero political influence. Are some of them crazy? Ya Bat**** crazy.
Saying that a staffer speaks for the nominee is a rediculous argument. Someone earlier mentioned them as being his inner circle. Field Managers are not his inner circle they are low level workers doing leg work trying to get him elected.

If that MORON wasn't speaking for Bernie and his campaign he should've been terminated. The fact that he wasn't speaks volumes and I judge people by their actions far more than I judge them by their words. Shame on Senator Sanders and shame on his staff for promoting search treason and violence.

Now, if you are intellectually honest, imagine that had been a redneck working for Trump who was caught on tape saying that about the democrats. Tell me what you think the media and the political opposition would have done with it. Now compare the two and share your thoughts.

[dfletcher]

Originally Posted by Offwidth

Yes. It is the definition of working for a campaign. And if what you speak is not reflecting the views of the campaign, you should be kicked out yesterday.

Which was not done.

Bernie is a Trotskyist.

Supposing that he must be at the "speak for him" level to warrant action, and if otherwise ought not be fired, is a canard. It is sufficient that such a person represents the campaign. If not fired it can be presumed what the person said sits sufficiently well with the candidate to merit him staying with the campaign.

My bet is that had someone from the Trump campaign behaved similarly such leeway would not have been granted.

[Grouchy Bear]

I really couldn’t tell if you were just a troll, Judas. I’m going to take you sharing your personal story for face value and assume you aren’t a troll.

You’ve got some ideas that are just plainly wrong...from US presidents, to “what gun culture is,” the nature of socialism and what the Democratic Party is.

But I get it. IIIII get it. I danced in the street (literally) when Obama got elected in ‘08. I fell for “HOPE & CHANGE.” Hard. I was also like a weirdo anarcho-punk rock atheist.

Now I believe pretty radical conservatism and Christ is the only way out of hell.

So I get where your coming from- about re-evaluating and doing a 180.

But I’m going to re-state my main point from earlier:

Don’t. Fall. For. The Spell.

Democrat politicians are evil warmongers, the SAME as NeoCons. They just hide it better.

Republican/Democrat. Same turd. Two different color hats.

You aren’t my enemy just because you’re a Democrat.

But I believe you’ve fallen for a lie. And I understand why.

Thanks for sharing your opinion here. Keep your eyes open. And don’t put your faith in men. Especially Democrat politician men!

[SamsDX]

Originally Posted by Robotron2k84

If you really want to make the situation better, start investigating patent and copyright law, and how that’s changed over the last hundred years. A huge part of this country’s ills has a direct line back to loss of competition because of rights ownership.

It flies under the radar in most political discussions, but that is the wedge between rich and poor at this point. Continued and perpetual ownership of ideas and loss of ownership in innovation. Most of the money spent lobbying is to maintain this situation.

How do you figure? Both patent and copyright rights grant limited rights of exclusivity in exchange for dedicating those inventions and works of authorship at the end of the term. I will grant you that 75 years after the life of the author has strayed quite a bit from the original intent, but 20 years after the first filing date seems like a reasonable period of time for an inventor to reap the benefits of an invention (and most patents don't end up getting maintained at the 11.5 year mark anyway).

I won't admit the system is perfect, and people who abuse it come and go from time to time. There are also individual cases where an injustice was done, but overall, the sheer span of our market and our economy is testament to the intellectual property system working and fostering innovation, that is, "promoting the progress of sciences and the useful arts." I think our strong patent system pushes inventors to innovate, and come up with better ideas that aren't mere copies of what others have done before. There's both a positive inventive to stake out their own slice of the pie, and a negative incentive to avoid infringing on another person's rights, both of which result in advancing the state of the art and benefiting the public.

Can you name any country that has an extremely weak patent protection system that has a flourishing economy as ours?

Expropriating another person's ideas, "evening the playing field," and not allowing inventors to reap his/her benefits of their labor is communism/socialism by any other name.

[Judas530]

Originally Posted by OCEquestrian

You don't think that Bernie Sanders operative isn't advocating treason and crimes against the people?

Why not .. your side has been advocating that and worse since 2016. Deep state operatives and the government have been working against the presidents legal agenda in directives since 2016. That is a textbook definition of treason .

There are multiple videos of a few campaign poeple so I want to specify. I saw one of a guy in a bar who looked drunk and said the poeple would rise up. This guy seemed to be talking about bernie supporters but no on specifically. I dont agree with him and I think he's still pissed that Bernie wasnt picked for the nomination. I didnt see him advocate violence but rather state that the poeple would rise up.

There was a video that someone posted above that actually had stated that if Bernie didnt get the nomination he would arm up and revolt. Maybe its truth maybe he is just trying to be a bad *** and show off for the female talking to him. dont know. If he did actually do this, plan this, or try to get others to revolt then yes I agree with you. That employee should most certainly be fired and so should anyone else who advocates for this crap. He should also be investigated and tried in a court of law for his actions if it is anything more than bravado.

Further more I dont believe in a deep state. I think that most government employees are just trying to do their jobs and support America to the best of their ability. When anyone is told to do something that they believe is against the law then they have a duty to speak up. You weren't specific so I cant really give you a better answer than that.

[Judas530]

Originally Posted by Grouchy Bear

I really couldn’t tell if you were just a troll, Judas. I’m going to take you sharing your personal story for face value and assume you aren’t a troll.

You’ve got some ideas that are just plainly wrong...from US presidents, to “what gun culture is,” the nature of socialism and what the Democratic Party is.

But I get it. IIIII get it. I danced in the street (literally) when Obama got elected in ‘08. I fell for “HOPE & CHANGE.” Hard. I was also like a weirdo anarcho-punk rock atheist.

Now I believe pretty radical conservatism and Christ is the only way out of hell.

So I get where your coming from- about re-evaluating and doing a 180.

But I’m going to re-state my main point from earlier:

Don’t. Fall. For. The Spell.

Democrat politicians are evil warmongers, the SAME as NeoCons. They just hide it better.

Republican/Democrat. Same turd. Two different color hats.

You aren’t my enemy just because you’re a Democrat.

But I believe you’ve fallen for a lie. And I understand why.

Thanks for sharing your opinion here. Keep your eyes open. And don’t put your faith in men. Especially Democrat politician men!

I'm not a troll man. I've been trying to be as civil as possible and not try provoke anyone. That's why I've done my best to keep the president out of the conversation. If I was a troll I would be blasting him every chance I got and trying to rile you guys up and that's not what I've been trying to do. I've never spent this much time in a thread and I'm honestly trying to have a conversation. That's it.
I never really talked about sociolism at at. Socialists want to tear down the system and rebuild it. I dont want that at all. I talked about sociol Democracy. Social Democrats dont want to destroy capitolism they just want to make it work for everyone not just the poeple at the top. I dont hate our system. I just think it's gotten a bit out of control and it needs to be reined in. That's not Sociolism at all.