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Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner. |
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#121
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The thing to do, my friends, is to admit to your fate with Christian resignation and live bravely until your appointed time." - Lee Marvin, "The Spikes Gang" |
#122
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What do you mean by "search and seizure issues"?
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I do not provide legal services or practice law (yet). The troublemaker formerly known as Blackwater OPS. |
#123
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same as in any other sub-forum
does the centerfire sub forum, exclude comments from handgun users? in each forum, should i now need to preface every comment with the i'm not 'insert title here' how bout we have the LEO's just state they are LEO in preface to their statements in the LEO sub forum or any other sub-forum for that matter. otherwise, its suggesting that my lack of stating 'i am not LEO' could be interpreted to mean i purposely misrepresented myself, and i really dont like that idea again, as i said earlier, the LEO may really not be the best suited to give the correct answer, its just a matter of the poster seeing a particular forum as the appropriate location to post a given question. How much is a ticket for speeding for instance, may be posted in the LEO forum, but LEO is not the person to answer that. LEO sub-forum is simply the sub-forum most suited for the question to be placed. in gunsmith forum, should we require that only certified gunsmiths should answer questions posted there. any question asked by any OP, is 99.9% of the time, wanting the 'correct' answer, or reasonable advise or direction to move. i think for the most part, the OP will take all the answers given under consideration, and draw their own conclusion from the whole. theres a couple topics i've seen recently that i am likely more qualified to answer than a significant number of LEO's. |
#124
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it just seems to me over reaching
and i may be over-reacting i also think the desired result would be lost LEO's in general, like to remain anon, if the rule is to preface any statement with 'i am not leo' in order to reply in the leo forum, it would imply that not having that statement, is stating that you are leo, leo's then may not post at all to answer a questino, as then they would be identified as an leo, whereas they wasnt before. kind of takes away the anonymity, then can open them up to more problems than its worth for participating in a forum, as if the location is known, the department can easier be guessed, which could cause issues on the job. my location can be easily found, and it probably wouldnt be real hard to figure out who i am, or where i work, if one decided to make the effort. it just seems the rule would be self-defeating |
#125
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The thing to do, my friends, is to admit to your fate with Christian resignation and live bravely until your appointed time." - Lee Marvin, "The Spikes Gang" |
#126
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Seems like there is a big assumption from the fact that most people here know me from one bad experience I had, and because I really hate dirty cops (BTW bullies who abuse power and hide behind a badge when they hurt people because if makes them feel good are the worst sort of dirty, much worse than a guy who takes bribes because just he is greedy). Truth is I have seen many things from BOTH sides of LE (as an MP, and as a person charged with crimes), and my views do reflect that.
Most cops are REGULAR people, doing a job at a professional level for a paycheck. Some cops are great people, even heroes, and go way above and beyond, and some cops are just scum with a badge. And you also have everything in between. But again most are professionals and comport themselves as such. What I was actually getting at with my question is that no one should put any sort of reliance on any legal or other information they get from a cop, let alone some anonymous maybe a cop guy on a public forum. If people want to state that they are LEOs fine, but them stating that on this forum generally means nothing, it could be true or not, it might be that info given is correct, or it might not.
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I do not provide legal services or practice law (yet). The troublemaker formerly known as Blackwater OPS. Last edited by retired; 08-06-2011 at 10:46 PM.. Reason: Off topic rant |
#127
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#128
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I was referring to issues where people come in here spouting off that something is a violation of the 4A or other rules of evidence, and they have no clue about what they were talking about.
I was not referring to your experience because I really don't have any facts about it that qualify me to speak on it. CSA, while we sometimes agree, and sometimes disagree, that's OK. However, comments such as yours though, are what lead to threads devolving into a bash fest and are really inappropriate, especially in the LE forum.
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LASD Retired 1978-2011 NRA Life Member CRPA Life Member NRA Rifle Instructor NRA Shotgun Instructor NRA Range Safety Officer DOJ Certified Instructor Last edited by retired; 08-06-2011 at 10:49 PM.. |
#129
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I think any time that type of polarized conversation starts in the LE section it won't end well regardless of who answers.
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I do not provide legal services or practice law (yet). The troublemaker formerly known as Blackwater OPS. |
#130
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Yea, I probably went a little too far with that one.
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#131
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The thing to do, my friends, is to admit to your fate with Christian resignation and live bravely until your appointed time." - Lee Marvin, "The Spikes Gang" |
#132
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While I may not be a current LEO. I'm working becoming one. I've been studying California law. Passed Criminal and Civil law with a A+ and have resources to gain knowledge if needed from employed Peace Officers in my local. I would think my 'opinion' would count for something. Nor would I spout off something unless I knew something about it.
I rather steer away from threads with people coming back with, "When in doubt, make stuff up". Otherwise if thread poster has a question that I am not 100% on I will state as a opinion and show any PC/VC and let the OP interpret it. Also I know that there are departmental policies [If not California state law regarding Peace Officers] from giving legal advice. Since I feel this is aimed at me and a few others that I know personally, I will add that I am not a Peace Officer from now on if it makes you(s) sleep better at night (At any means not a pun or insult of what I said). No offense intended.
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I'm not a LEO nor Lawyer, none of what I say can nor should be used as legal advice. Last edited by ironcross; 08-05-2011 at 11:27 PM.. |
#133
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so, if a question is asked in LEO forum, and a supposed LEO, answers a question in a manner i know to be wrong, i should simply ignore it, since i'm not LEO, i should just keep my mouth shut?
just a question? its how i'm perceiving this |
#134
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The thing to do, my friends, is to admit to your fate with Christian resignation and live bravely until your appointed time." - Lee Marvin, "The Spikes Gang" |
#135
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The rules seem to be pretty easy to read and understand:
1. This forum is for Calguns LEO members and those who would like to ask questions in a civil manner. Doesn't say, This forum is for Calguns LEO members and those who would like to answer questions. 2. This forum is to give our LEO members a place to share their stories, pictures and videos as well as answer serious questions from the membership. 3. This is NOT a place to air your dislike of the Government, Law Enforcement, LEOs in general or the law in general. Doing so here will result in losing access to this forum. Sure would be nice if people followed this rule. 4. Post denigrating or insulting our LEO members will be removed and the poster will no longer be able to access this forum. 5. Questions for LEOs should be both civil and serious. Questions like 'Why do you thugs..' will get you removed and possibly banned. Frivolous questions will be deleted. Doesn't say anything about, questions for non LEOs. 6. 'Cop Bashing' will NOT be tolerated in this forum at all. 7. In addition to these special rules, the standard rules still apply here as well.
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John Bishop Member: NRA Life, CRPA, WEGC |
#136
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Just a thought. Non leo. I just joined another vbulletin. Forum for hvac they had a subforum where in order to answer you had to be versed by a mod... You could comment but not answer original question. Thhen they also had a pro only section where you had to apply to with certs if needed. WWW.hvac-talk.com. for how they are setup.
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#137
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Well just like Forums.Officer.com they have verified LEO areas. But as a civi and you know the answer. Even working on becoming a LEO as I am.
Just keep your mouth shut or get banned.... That's how it is there as they want to see your LEO credentials. Even if I were an LEO. I would not share my LEO credentials/ID with people on the net. That's just asking for trouble.
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I'm not a LEO nor Lawyer, none of what I say can nor should be used as legal advice. |
#138
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The LEO subform has provided me with alot of useful insightful information on Academies, and hiring processes. I would hate to loose that connection over FUD or wanabe Cops. I do think it's reasonable to state your expertise on the subject Last edited by Tacit Blue; 08-06-2011 at 2:17 AM.. |
#139
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To each their own I guess. I will continue to give advice as far as my knowledge allows me to regards to Law Enforcement.
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I'm not a LEO nor Lawyer, none of what I say can nor should be used as legal advice. |
#140
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"Couch commandos" I love that one, I am going to have to steal that.
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#142
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Sorry ! if it came out wrong Last edited by goathead; 08-06-2011 at 4:42 AM.. |
#143
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1. I'm not LE, just an average cg'er.
2. I didnt read all of the responses...posting from my phone. Having said that, I seem to remember this coming up before. Didnt the powers that be say that the LE forum was for LE to chat amongst themselves, and to respond to polite...POLITE...questions from non LE only? Back when this sub forum was created, folks used to state up front whether they were LE? Kinder, gentler times... |
#144
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Its all good. I actually agree.
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-If you insult me for my grammar errors, what makes you think I understand the insult? -Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Are we done -Voting is like falling off your bike. Sidewalk or street. Both are painful to fall on. But, the sidewalk (Mitt) is closer to the green grass. |
#145
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I'm just thinking also that, people are making an assumption that a person isposting in the section with the expectation that only an LEO is able or suppose to respond, i dont post in a section with that assumption. I realize this is a public forum, and anyone can respond, similar to my example of posting in the
"Calgunners in Service" for which the description (NOT RULE) This forum is a place for our active duty and deployed members to share, request and have a bit of home where ever they are. I would place a question there as to 'what should I send my niece in afghan' I would not have the expectation of only 'Calgunners In Service' being the only persons who should respond, nor would i have the expectation of the responder prefacing their response with 'i'm not in service nor am i deployed. I do think that any original post is simply place in the LEO section as it is an LEO type of question, there simply is not a traffic court section to ask the same question there. then its also, i dont particularly care for disclaimers in the first place, meaning, forum users should not need to put, i'm not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice and it is not considered legal advice, etc... a forum, is a place for discussion, of opinions, and every post should be viewed as an opinion, not legal advice. Unless it specifically states 'THIS IS LEGAL ADVICE, or THIS IS DOCTORS ORDERS' hmm, actually, the description for Calguns LEO's LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner. |
#146
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Another issue with making it LEOs only is it shows up on the searches. Many times, unless the thread is obviously a LEO thread, I've responded before I even realize it is in the LEO sub forum. Honestly, I think the idea of even having a LEO sub-forum is a bit elitist; law enforcement is just an occupation, and there is no "Computer Tech" sub-forum... there certainly are plenty of LEO forums out there, I just don't see the need for a LEO-only sub-forum.
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#148
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If you want a private group, it needs to be private. It's not really fair, or practical, to make the threads pop up in the search, but make a rule that only certain people can respond to them. It is very easy to make a sub-forum private.
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#149
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I agree with e pluribus for the most part
and on that note, I do attempt to make the 'im not leo' disclaimer if i do see that the original post states specifically 'i'd like the 'opinion' of an LEO. I think that is a directed question, for which the poster doesnt think a bricklayer would have the same opinion, sometime we just want to have an idea of how a particular species (leo, military, bricklayer) thinks, to help us better understand why a situation may have went the way it did under given circumstances I may still answer a question like that anyway, but would also lay the disclaimer, and possibly elaborate why my own opinion might have merit. |
#150
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Im not an LEO, damn you economy, but I was an explorer, prior military, and have been through a few testing processes. I see no problem having to state that you arent LEO before offering advice directly pertaining to the job or legal situation.
I would hate to see this forum closed to non-LEO, because the rest of this site is horribly anti-LEO. |
#151
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I think tripper and e pluribus just illustrated my point by stating that they often reply to posts with the preface that they are not LEO. I see nothing wrong with expecting others to do that as well in this subforum, especially in light of purpose of this subforum.
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The thing to do, my friends, is to admit to your fate with Christian resignation and live bravely until your appointed time." - Lee Marvin, "The Spikes Gang" |
#152
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Everyone who reads threads here on calguns for a time will eventually know the "feelings" and "beliefs" of the posters.
I filter which posts I read simply by the poster. I have a pretty good idea who is LE and who is not. I read posts from folks who over the past have value-added info. There are other posters who have nothing to add and I don't bother reading their posts. We all do this somewhat unconsciously, reader beware...and we know everything we read off the internet is true, especially the opinions of a bunch of anonymous posters on internet forums!
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"Bruen, the Bruen opinion, I believe, discarded the intermediate scrutiny test that I also thought was not very useful; and has, instead, replaced it with a text history and tradition test." Judge Benitez 12-12-2022 NRA Endowment Life Member, CRPA Life Member GLOCK (Gen 1-5, G42/43), Colt AR15/M16/M4, Sig P320, Sig P365, Beretta 90 series, Remington 870, HK UMP Factory Armorer Remington Nylon, 1911, HK, Ruger, Hudson H9 Armorer, just for fun! I instruct it if you shoot it. |
#153
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Is it possible that the real reason you are asking for this is because you feel you, as an LEO, are "special" and should have special rights and privileges others don't get? I'll grant you that there is a valid argument that many questions asked in the LEO forum, such as the topic mentioned by alfalfa, would be best answered by LEOs. The same could be true however (even more so in fact) for questions in the Service, or even Ladies forums. What you do NOT see in those forums however, is a demand by the respective groups that only ladies or service members answer questions posed in those threads. So I have to ask, why is it such a big deal for LEOs?
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I do not provide legal services or practice law (yet). The troublemaker formerly known as Blackwater OPS. |
#154
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I'm not going to speak for bio, but my contention is that some of the non LEO's who do post here ( i said it before) post just for the sake of inciting a flame war. After that, it's the posters who want to seem self important and post with little to no facts, and then comes the people who post to just see themselves type. There are a few people here (non-LEO's) that do post things with some perspective, but they usually get drowned out and a lot of these posts start devolving into fight fests.
Let's face it OPS, I don't think insults get hurled much in those forums you mentioned either and there definately isn't as much hate that gets spewed. You combine a lot of these factors and some others that exist only in the LEO forum, you start to understand this post a little more. |
#155
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Sorry someone beat me to it .... and our military is also strictly voluntary. Not taking anything away from those guys, cause I know time away and the sacrifices made suck ***, but let not differentiate and ignore everything else just cause you have a point to make. Last edited by Falconis; 08-06-2011 at 12:43 PM.. |
#156
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I do not provide legal services or practice law (yet). The troublemaker formerly known as Blackwater OPS. |
#157
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It is a valid point actually. If you get rid of any ideas of elitism and all that other crap, it actually would help new people asking a question here weight different posts. I think we can both agree it can get confusing and overwhelming for a new person here with all the non LEO responses, especially when a person asks for an LEO response.
My other contention is that when a person asks for non LEO's to stay out of a thread, I do not see why a person here can't show enough respect and just stay out. I don't think I have ever seen it as a case of being elitist, but that the OP just wants to shoot the crap with fellow cops. Kind of like a family gathering. Another thing that often happens is that a poster will post something (intentions not withstanding) and that poster will just be wrong. It may be because the poster isn't aware of policies and procedures, or case law or some other excuse. It's been my experience here, no matter how you try to educate those people, they just want to be right no matter what and it devolves from there. And not everyone gets banned that should be. So Cal shooter either skirts that line or just crosses over it and that last post that got deleted was a prime example. There are other people here that I have seen make post after post. Granted I havent seen some in a while, and the fact that we do not know who gets banned may have something to do with this as well. Last edited by Falconis; 08-06-2011 at 1:43 PM.. |
#158
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As for me feeling special as a LEO, I think you're projecting your insecurities onto me. I never claimed I was special.
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The thing to do, my friends, is to admit to your fate with Christian resignation and live bravely until your appointed time." - Lee Marvin, "The Spikes Gang" |
#159
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My wife says i'm special
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-If you insult me for my grammar errors, what makes you think I understand the insult? -Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Are we done -Voting is like falling off your bike. Sidewalk or street. Both are painful to fall on. But, the sidewalk (Mitt) is closer to the green grass. |
#160
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I do not provide legal services or practice law (yet). The troublemaker formerly known as Blackwater OPS. Last edited by Matt C; 08-06-2011 at 6:18 PM.. |
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