Why FFLs possessing AOWs and Silencers is legal.

[curvejunkie]

Quick question on the suppressors. In use at the range, can we let other people handle the weapons? Test them out? If they are NOT LEO?

I am attending a class with mine, tactical carbine, and going to use my rifle suppressed. Since I haven't used one, i have to get some "market research" under my belt. I am sure to get inquiries to use it.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Originally Posted by IronWorksTactical

So a SOT legally possessing a suppressor could use one however how would you justify it as a demo for sales as isn't that the only reason we technically can possess and use it?

The penal code only says,

"(c) The manufacture, possession, transportation, or sale or other transfer of silencers to an entity described in subdivision (a) by dealers or manufacturers registered under Chapter 53 (commencing with Section 5801) of Title 26 of the United States Code, and the regulations issued pursuant thereto."

It says possession. So no where does it say why we can possess them, but simply that we can possess them. The reason I am always using mine for demo or business is because the Feds say if I am, then I have not conducted a transfer and no paperwork is involved. So even when my personally registered AR15 pistol in .300 BLK that is on my CCW has the suppressor on it, I am conducting business with it as I am using it for corporate protection of assets.

Originally Posted by curvejunkie

Quick question on the suppressors. In use at the range, can we let other people handle the weapons? Test them out? If they are NOT LEO?

I am attending a class with mine, tactical carbine, and going to use my rifle suppressed. Since I haven't used one, i have to get some "market research" under my belt. I am sure to get inquiries to use it.

If so, I am going to prison. As long as I am there with the suppressor, has a transfer taken place? I bet if we looked it up, no. Now the state, they might not agree, but again, if you are there with the suppressor, a transfer hasn't taken place and the person using it isn't possessing it, they are just using it. It does not belong to them.

[CifaldiPrecision]

I did just get my SOT accomplished and returned. I am having trouble understanding the form 3 process would someone care to elaborate.


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[mrkubota]

Originally Posted by tenpercentfirearms

Just a reminder, the tax year is from July 1st through June 30th each year. That means the new tax year is just under 4 months away. Now might be a good time for you FFLs to make the jump and start selling silencers to LEOs and military or at least stocking up on some of your demo models. This is the best $500 I spend a year and definitely a worth while perk. Get it while you still have the money!

As an 06 I hadn't before considered an SOT in order to get a suppressor.
Is there an updated link to the application process? The one above no longer appears to work.
I certainly would love to have a suppressor for my .50s when I go to the range to test and demo my ammo. It'll help save what's left of my hearing!

[EBR Works]

Originally Posted by IronWorksTactical

I did just get my SOT accomplished and returned. I am having trouble understanding the form 3 process would someone care to elaborate.


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A Form 3 is filled out by a dealer or manufacturer that is transferring an NFA item to another dealer. It gets submitted to ATF and takes anywhere from 1 week to 3 months depending upon ATF's workload. One the form 3 is approved, the item is shipped to the receiving dealer along with a copy of the form 3 for his records. The receiving dealer now has title to the item. You'll often see items listed in sales ads as being "on a form 3". Once the receiving dealer has the item, they can form 3 it to another dealer or form 4 it to an end user.

Originally Posted by mrkubota

As an 06 I hadn't before considered an SOT in order to get a suppressor.
Is there an updated link to the application process? The one above no longer appears to work.
I certainly would love to have a suppressor for my .50s when I go to the range to test and demo my ammo. It'll help save what's left of my hearing!

But you'll need shoulder surgery eventually. There is no recoil reduction with a suppressor!

Not sure an 06 can get a SOT. I believe you must be an 01 or 07.

SOT app here anyway:

https://www.atf.gov/files/forms/down...f-f-5630-7.pdf

[Cali-Glock]

Are there not alternative ways to attach a supressor to a barrel? I am thinking something along the lines of air hose hardware connections. I was sure I saw a supressor and barrel combination like that online or in a magazine somewhere.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Originally Posted by Cali-Glock

Are there not alternative ways to attach a supressor to a barrel? I am thinking something along the lines of air hose hardware connections. I was sure I saw a supressor and barrel combination like that online or in a magazine somewhere.

Many manufacturers make quick detach adapters and silencers in many different styles. Start researching.

[SOR]

So I have read all the thread and just want to clarify. Before I get started, the reason I started my ffl a little while ago is because I work in public safety and recognized the potential to sell to my colleagues. The other reason is because I want a can!!! Ok joking aside, I thought an 03 sot was out of the question in CA, but from what I am reading that does not apply to suppressors. Please confirm!

[Toby's Tactical]

CA law says that besides the typical LEO-types, only SOT payers can possess firearms. Once you have your FFL you send the SOT paperwork and check and you'll have your tax stamp in just a few weeks. And it's not an 03 SOT; it's just an SOT.

[SOR]

Thanks for the info and clarification. I think I may have to consider that soon!

[grego31]

Thank you so much tenpercent and Toby, I have just sent off my SOT paperwork today. My wife was wondering why I was in such a good mood today.
The best part, after telling her that I sent it in, she is already helping me to sell some goods. She has some friends thru work that might be able to purchase a couple of suppresors, so Monday we get to sit down with them and do some paperwork and see if it will work out. They are excited and so am I.
Any advise as to who to contact? I have seen YHM mentioned and I have looked at Silenerco website, any others?.
I was wondering about the advertising that you have a SOT. Is this something that is better left to forums like here and kept quiet among like minded people or do you announce it to the world! I try and keep a PC correct image so as to not attract too much attention for various reasons and was wondering how to handle this once I get my paperwork.

Now I have to work on my signature line and a good picture for my avatar!

[tenpercentfirearms]

Originally Posted by grego31

Thank you so much tenpercent and Toby, I have just sent off my SOT paperwork today. My wife was wondering why I was in such a good mood today.
The best part, after telling her that I sent it in, she is already helping me to sell some goods. She has some friends thru work that might be able to purchase a couple of suppresors, so Monday we get to sit down with them and do some paperwork and see if it will work out. They are excited and so am I.
Any advise as to who to contact? I have seen YHM mentioned and I have looked at Silenerco website, any others?.
I was wondering about the advertising that you have a SOT. Is this something that is better left to forums like here and kept quiet among like minded people or do you announce it to the world! I try and keep a PC correct image so as to not attract too much attention for various reasons and was wondering how to handle this once I get my paperwork.

Now I have to work on my signature line and a good picture for my avatar!

These friends through work, are they a LEO agency? Individual officers cannot purchase silencers. Only agencies and the actual military itself. Make sure you are clear on that. If a cop or someone in the military shows you their ID and wants to buy a suppressor, it hopefully will get denied on the ATF end otherwise if it goes through, you are all off the state prison and possibly FPMITAP.

YHM is cool because their demo prices are pretty awesome. My Thunder Beast Arms cans are really nice, but expensive.

[grego31]

Originally Posted by tenpercentfirearms

These friends through work, are they a LEO agency? Individual officers cannot purchase silencers. Only agencies and the actual military itself. Make sure you are clear on that. If a cop or someone in the military shows you their ID and wants to buy a suppressor, it hopefully will get denied on the ATF end otherwise if it goes through, you are all off the state prison and possibly FPMITAP.

YHM is cool because their demo prices are pretty awesome. My Thunder Beast Arms cans are really nice, but expensive.

Thank you tenpercent for looking out for me, that is why calguns is so awesome!
After reading A LOT of material about having a sot from several members here plus lots on different gov sites, I still have lots to learn!

Yes, the wifes friends work at a fed agency that might be qualified and I have to talk to the department head before any pen touches paper. Selling guns, you need to check your paperwork three or more times before submiting anything. With the sot items, I plan to check it at least 10 times or more! If anything is effie, it doesn't happen until everything is perfect. I do not plan to go to jail or pay huge fines, or worst yet, both of those things just so someone can own a suppresor.

I respect anyones opinion here on this FFL section. I pretty sure that I won't get bad advise that would jeopardize mine or anyone elses freedom.

I do not mind a little flame if needed, I am a newb so it comes with the territory.

[RZ Operations]

I am bringing this thread back from the dead as I am a newer FFL and curious about getting a SOT now and the new plan year is coming up.

On the form, if I am an 01 FFL, would I select class 3 - dealer in firearms?

Are most of you with SOT only doing demo's or are you getting sales from it?

Can we sell out of state? Example - Nevada residents.

[Baboosh]

I sell NFA on GunBroker, got my Salvo order early and made a nice profit on them.

Selling online is hard for NFA and markup is pennies considering how much work it is and time you have to hold items.

I also manufacture AOWs so my license is more for that.

However demoing units to make sure you know how well they operate can be fun

[RZ Operations]

Originally Posted by Baboosh

I sell NFA on GunBroker, got my Salvo order early and made a nice profit on them.

Selling online is hard for NFA and markup is pennies considering how much work it is and time you have to hold items.

I also manufacture AOWs so my license is more for that.

However demoing units to make sure you know how well they operate can be fun

What is the process if I have someone in Nevada that wants to purchase a suppressor? My thought process is obtaining a SOT for mainly demoing and possibly assisting with AOW transfers.

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by RZ Operations

What is the process if I have someone in Nevada that wants to purchase a suppressor? My thought process is obtaining a SOT for mainly demoing and possibly assisting with AOW transfers.

if person in NV purchases a can from you, a NV SOT would need to be found to process the transfer. you would then submit a tax-free Form 3 transfer request to transfer it to the NV SOT who would then submit a $200 Form 4 transfer request to transfer it to the end-user.

[RZ Operations]

Originally Posted by ke6guj

if person in NV purchases a can from you, a NV SOT would need to be found to process the transfer. you would then submit a tax-free Form 3 transfer request to transfer it to the NV SOT who would then submit a $200 Form 4 transfer request to transfer it to the end-user.

Thank you. Does it ever make sense for a customer to purchase a can from a SOT out of state or is it easier to just purchased from a SOT in their state?

[Baboosh]

Originally Posted by RZ Operations

Thank you. Does it ever make sense for a customer to purchase a can from a SOT out of state or is it easier to just purchased from a SOT in their state?

In their state by far.

[EBR Works]

Originally Posted by RZ Operations

Thank you. Does it ever make sense for a customer to purchase a can from a SOT out of state or is it easier to just purchased from a SOT in their state?

Purchasing in-state would cut out the Form 3 approval time that can be anywhere from 2 weeks to 6 months depending on current ATF workload and staffing.

[RZ Operations]

Sounds like I'll stick to demoing

[Baboosh]

Remember even when you purchase it from the distributor it still takes a Form 3 before they can transfer them to you. average wait is about 90 days right now. If you sell it a guy in AZ you then Form 3 it to his SOT, another 90 days. Then he submits for 4 which is about 180 days right now as they took them offline and back to paper.

So technically you can have paid for something and held onto it for 6 months before you get payment. That's a lot of wasted funds for $30 in profit

[audiophil2]

Originally Posted by RZ Operations

Thank you. Does it ever make sense for a customer to purchase a can from a SOT out of state or is it easier to just purchased from a SOT in their state?

I do a lot of transfers. People are willing to wait 2 months to save on me charging them tax. $1000 suppressor $40 transfer vs $85 tax. $20,000 M16 $40 transfer vs $1700 tax. I can push my customers to buy from me by taking them to shoot their cans while waiting for the paperwork and make them wait 4 months before they can even touch theirs since it belongs to me until ATF sends me the stamp. I won't let them touch a transferred in can because if they are denied guess who has to deal with the used can?

[jacobstactical]

I use the nearby public range and also have a friend at the local county sheriff range. At either location, there is an interest to see what we are up to when testing our products.

At the public range we tend to find a "quiet" corner at the end of the row and try not to make a big deal of it. Thus far, no issues. We carry copies of all paperwork in case someone of authority wants to validate us. [FFL07/SOT/DW permits/licenses]

FWIW: We will also help CA FFLs convert assault weapons to CA compliant status. Check out our site @ http://www.jacobstactical.com/bulletbuttonweb.htm or hit me on PM for more info.

Originally Posted by GunSafari

Any of you FFL's with a class 3 have any issues taking suppressors to the range in CA?

[Toby's Tactical]

I've never had a problem. I always tell the range that I'm going to shoot my silencers and have the required paperwork. Most people are curious because they have never seen a silencer.

Originally Posted by jacobstactical

I use the nearby public range and also have a friend at the local county sheriff range. At either location, there is an interest to see what we are up to when testing our products.

At the public range we tend to find a "quiet" corner at the end of the row and try not to make a big deal of it. Thus far, no issues. We carry copies of all paperwork in case someone of authority wants to validate us. [FFL07/SOT/DW permits/licenses]

FWIW: We will also help CA FFLs convert assault weapons to CA compliant status. Check out our site @ http://www.jacobstactical.com/bulletbuttonweb.htm or hit me on PM for more info.

[RZ Operations]

Has anybody modified regular pistols like Glock or Sig to have a magazine lock so they can use a threaded barrel?

[EBR Works]

Yes, Glock is easy. Remove the release button, cut it down and reinstall. It is a $4 part.

[RZ Operations]

Originally Posted by EBR Works

Yes, Glock is easy. Remove the release button, cut it down and reinstall. It is a $4 part.

Thanks! Anybody do this for any other guns?

[Toby's Tactical]

I modified several pistols by cutting the release button flush, drilling a small hole, tapping it, and installing a screw and washer that would prevent the magazine release from being pushed. That was a good fix for SSE's while they were around.

[Tokarevman]

Can a CA resident legally own, possess, import, purchase a handgun-sized threaded barrel without ever installing it in a handgun?

[lorax3]

Originally Posted by Tokarevman

Can a CA resident legally own, possess, import, purchase a handgun-sized threaded barrel without ever installing it in a handgun?

The penal code does not say it is illegal per se. So we assume it is legal.

Note: There are rules on constructive possession for short-barreled rifles and shotguns, so a handgun-sized AR-15 barrel could be an issue (but not because it is threaded).

[Tokarevman]

Originally Posted by lorax3

The penal code does not say it is illegal per se. So we assume it is legal.

Note: There are rules on constructive possession for short-barreled rifles and shotguns, so a handgun-sized AR-15 barrel could be an issue (but not because it is threaded).

Thank you very much.

[GlockN'Roll]

It might be a good time to update this thread, given any recent changes to the law that might impact this topic...

People are being pointed to this thread by other related threads...

[Wyseguy]

So the question remains, do any of the laws for 2017 prohibit or otherwise infringe an FFL dealer in CA from obtaining a SOT?

[EBR Works]

Originally Posted by Wyseguy

So the question remains, do any of the laws for 2017 prohibit or otherwise infringe an FFL dealer in CA from obtaining a SOT?

I see nothing that would affect this currently.

[eltee]

Originally Posted by tenpercentfirearms

Feel free to alter this with your own company information to your heart's desire. I just plan on printing this on the back of all of my Form 3 copies that I keep with the items that way it is all one nice piece of paper.

I just received my EIN and downloaded the SOT paperwork to send off. This document you are sharing is great. Have there been any changes since it was written?

THANKS