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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #1  
Old 04-23-2019, 6:38 PM
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Default Bedding a chassis gun

Bought a mdt chassis for my long range rifle. Iíve got various answers on beddingvto the chassis. I say both action and scope base should both be bedred. Iím hearingbpeople say no on the action to chassis. Thoughts and opinions??
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Old 04-23-2019, 10:46 PM
Bullets&Whitewalls Bullets&Whitewalls is offline
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I always thought the idea behind the MDT stuff was not having to do that. Don’t they claim that on the site?
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Old 04-24-2019, 4:08 AM
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this raises a lot of questions for me...

first what make/caliber of gun/chassis are we talking about? custom? factory?
have you reached the point that YOU can shoot better than your gun can?
do you hand load? if yes where are ESs or SDs at on your hand loads?

theres more but these 3 should be more than enough to answer your question.
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Old 04-24-2019, 7:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longrange1 View Post
this raises a lot of questions for me...

first what make/caliber of gun/chassis are we talking about? custom? factory?
have you reached the point that YOU can shoot better than your gun can?
do you hand load? if yes where are ESs or SDs at on your hand loads?

theres more but these 3 should be more than enough to answer your question.
.308 Savage 10, mdt lss xl gen 2, have not starred handloading for this rifle yet. Only have 30 rounds down the pipe. The plan it to start shooting comp out to about 1000 with it. Bought the chassis, because the factory stock I consider trash. Iíve always been taught to bed rifles for accuracy, but Iím being told it doesnít make a difference with chassis. I would just prefer to do it right the first time, if thatís whatís needed.
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Old 04-24-2019, 8:24 AM
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Make one trip.
shoot it first with match ammo.
Which savage model did you buy ?
I have a few savage rifles. Only my Stealth will shoot factory Hornaday 140 match in a .05 moa group at 100yds.
I have to reload for the others. Or it's 2 inch group at 100 yds.
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Old 04-24-2019, 9:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiopro74 View Post
Bought a mdt chassis for my long range rifle. Iíve got various answers on beddingvto the chassis. I say both action and scope base should both be bedred. Iím hearingbpeople say no on the action to chassis. Thoughts and opinions??
Put an indicator on the chassis so that the indicator is reading deflection of the barrel.
Stand the gun up so the butt is on the table and the muzzle points to the ceiling.
Loosen and tighten the rear action screw and watch the indicator.
If the indicator is moving more than a couple thousandths, the chassis should be bedded.

I have yet to find ANY chassis that can pass this test.
My bedded stocks move less than a thousandth.
Unbedded chassis usually move between 50 and 150 thousandths.
I have seen chassis that bend the reciever so much that the bolt binds in the receiver.

This video shows the gun horizontal but I get better test results with the gun vertical.
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Old 04-24-2019, 9:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullets&Whitewalls View Post
I always thought the idea behind the MDT stuff was not having to do that. Donít they claim that on the site?
People like to believe that, but actual testing of receiver deflection shows otherwise.
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Old 04-24-2019, 9:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiopro74 View Post
.308 Savage 10, mdt lss xl gen 2, have not starred handloading for this rifle yet. Only have 30 rounds down the pipe. The plan it to start shooting comp out to about 1000 with it. Bought the chassis, because the factory stock I consider trash. Iíve always been taught to bed rifles for accuracy, but Iím being told it doesnít make a difference with chassis. I would just prefer to do it right the first time, if thatís whatís needed.
Competition shooters normally bed their chassis because they want them to shoot as good as possible.
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Old 04-24-2019, 9:30 AM
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I've got an FN SPR that used to sit in the original A1 stock that was bedded and a reliable .5 moa gun. I switched over to an XLR Evolution and groups went to 1 moa consistently. I called XLR and they said doesn't need to be bedded, need to redo load development, work on my technique with chassis, blah blah blah. Could never get it to group like before. I ended up bedding it myself with JB Weld at the two action screw contact points. Doesn't look like a professional bedding job, but restored accuracy to its former state. I would just do it regardless for ease of mind.

Went from this:



To This:


Last edited by Mike402; 04-24-2019 at 9:45 AM..
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Old 04-24-2019, 9:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike402 View Post
I've got an FN SPR that used to sit in the original A1 stock that was bedded and a reliable .5 moa gun. I switched over to an XLR Evolution and groups went to 1 moa consistently. I called XLR and they said doesn't need to be bedded, need to redo load development, work on my technique with chassis, blah blah blah. Could never get it to group like before. I ended up bedding it myself with JB Weld at the two action screw contact points. Doesn't look like a professional bedding job, but restored accuracy to its former state. I would just do it regardless for ease of mind.
Your empirical data must be wrong because the manufacturer said it does not need bedding...
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Old 04-24-2019, 9:46 AM
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Very interesting! I never would have thought to bed a chassis.
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Old 04-24-2019, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
People like to believe that, but actual testing of receiver deflection shows otherwise.
Is the deflection due to the inconsistency of the receiver machining dimensions more than the chassis machining issues?
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Old 04-24-2019, 1:50 PM
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Originally Posted by smoothy8500 View Post
Is the deflection due to the inconsistency of the receiver machining dimensions more than the chassis machining issues?
Most common reason is for the uneven support of the reciever due to the V-block design implemented in most chassis.
It's simply not possible to get support behind the rear action screw when you have no contact in the middle of the bottom of the receiver.
So with the tang unsupported and hanging about 1/2" to 3/4" behind the V block contact points, the rear of the reciever gets bent down as the rear action screw is torqued into place.
On trued receivers with a snugly fitted bolt, it's common for the bolt to bind after the rear action screw is tightened.
The solution is to bed the reciever so that the bedding is supporting the reciever as the action screw is tightened.

Even without an indicator, you can wrap your hand around the forend and over the barrel and feel the barrel moving when you loosen and tighten the rear action screw.
This is the result of the receiver being distorted.
It's upwards of 1/8" of barrel deflection on some chassis.
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Old 04-25-2019, 3:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiopro74 View Post
.308 Savage 10, mdt lss xl gen 2, have not starred handloading for this rifle yet. Only have 30 rounds down the pipe. The plan it to start shooting comp out to about 1000 with it. Bought the chassis, because the factory stock I consider trash. Iíve always been taught to bed rifles for accuracy, but Iím being told it doesnít make a difference with chassis. I would just prefer to do it right the first time, if thatís whatís needed.
personally id shoot the gun as is and not worry about it until you feel you have out grown the rifle...ive owned 6 chassis'd rifles none are/were bedded and all did/will shoot in the 2s and 3s.

the big problem bedding it is if you decide you dont like the chassis or want to up grade it will be hard sell...if you decide you love the chassis after shooting it for awhile then bed it.
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Old 04-25-2019, 6:11 AM
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..ive owned 6 chassis'd rifles none are/were bedded and all did/will shoot in the 2s and 3s.
2s and 3s, as in 2-3 moa? With the cheap plastic stock, Iím sub moa already. Iíd hate for that to increase.
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Old 04-25-2019, 7:35 AM
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Uhhh, he meant (point) 2-3, as in .3 MOA.

Last edited by smoothy8500; 04-25-2019 at 7:37 AM..
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Old 04-25-2019, 8:02 AM
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What are some of the better chassis for those that don't bed?
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Old 04-25-2019, 8:03 AM
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Originally Posted by audiopro74 View Post
2s and 3s, as in 2-3 moa? With the cheap plastic stock, I’m sub moa already. I’d hate for that to increase.
If I had a gun that shot 2 or 3 MOA I’d give it away
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Old 04-25-2019, 8:04 AM
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What are some of the better chassis for those that don't bed?
MPA
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Old 04-25-2019, 9:28 AM
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Old 04-25-2019, 10:56 AM
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MPA

Ignorant question, but is it because the MPA doesn't use a "V" shaped block?
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Old 04-25-2019, 1:04 PM
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Well, chassis showed up today. Set the barell and action in it. If I snug the front screw first, as I snug the back, the fore the travels away from barell. If I snug back screw first, as I snug front, barell and forend travel together.

When I say snug, Iím talking only a couple pounds of snug. And when I say travel, I mean a lot. I didnít break out the micrometer, but Iíd say over 1/16, under 1/8.

So for my own piece of mind, and to give myself every sporting chance at competing, I will be bedding this girl.
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Old 04-25-2019, 1:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiopro74 View Post
Well, chassis showed up today. Set the barell and action in it.
If I snug the front screw first, as I snug the back, the fore the travels away from barell.
If I snug back screw first, as I snug front, barell and forend travel together.

When I say snug, I’m talking only a couple pounds of snug.
And when I say travel, I mean a lot. I didn’t break out the micrometer, but I’d say over 1/16, under 1/8.
If you touch the back screw down before the front screw is tight, the barrel and the reciever stand up out of the chassis.
Then as you tighten the front action screw, you are simply bending the action as the action comes down to the chassis.
Don't do that!
Always tighten the front screw first and the rear screw last.
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Old 04-25-2019, 1:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
If you touch the back screw down before the front screw is tight, the barrel and the reciever stand up out of the chassis.
Then as you tighten the front action screw, you are simply bending the action as the action comes down to the chassis.
Don't do that!
Always tighten the front screw first and the rear screw last.
I figured it was either or both. This I just stopped and let it be, as to not tear something up. Itís back apart, and Iíll wait till Iím ready to bed before messing with it anymore.
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Old 04-25-2019, 3:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Joefear7 View Post
Ignorant question, but is it because the MPA doesn't use a "V" shaped block?
No just a better made chassis...Iím not saying they are perfect but I will say that my barrel does not move around when torquing the action and if it does youíd need a mic like Randal is talking about to see it.
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Old 04-25-2019, 4:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
People like to believe that, but actual testing of receiver deflection shows otherwise.
Iím gonna check mine out at some point. Thanks for posting that video. For now though Iím gonna keep shooting until I get better. My chassis is not an MDT but at some point I plan to start getting it more dialed. Iím happy now though that Iím on clay pigeons at 561yds. Once Iím more confident in my ability Iím hoping to be able to notice the changes like proper bedding and scope mounting.
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Old 04-25-2019, 9:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Bullets&Whitewalls View Post
Once Iím more confident in my ability Iím hoping to be able to notice the changes like proper bedding and scope mounting.

Here my issue with this way of thinking. How do you know youíve gotten better if the gun has possible issues? If you shoot for months and you donít see improvement, do you blame you or the gun? By having equipment that you know is mechanically right, you can focus completely on you.

Lots of guys think that their rifle is more accurate than they are, but out that guy on a well built rifle and youíll see that theyíd shoot just fine.
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Old 04-27-2019, 8:13 AM
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Originally Posted by NorCalFocus View Post
Here my issue with this way of thinking. How do you know you’ve gotten better if the gun has possible issues? If you shoot for months and you don’t see improvement, do you blame you or the gun? By having equipment that you know is mechanically right, you can focus completely on you.

Lots of guys think that their rifle is more accurate than they are, but out that guy on a well built rifle and you’ll see that they’d shoot just fine.
You bring up a pretty good point. I think the main thing here is knowing when to make the change. I won’t spend months shooting it to finally say the rifle needs the change. Although I can see why you would think that from my previous post. I’ve got one solid trip on my rifle now, I changed the optic ( got a great upgrade deal from a great calgunner ) and I will probably go out now one or two more times before I try bedding it. There’s a few changes I plan on making to the chassis anyhow. Mostly cosmetic stuff because I also want it to look cool. Before this thread though I probably would have let it be. Not gonna fib about that. But that is why I spend so much time here, if you weed through everything you can here there is some awesome info from members on this site that can aid in becoming a better shooter.
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Old 04-27-2019, 9:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullets&Whitewalls View Post
if you weed through everything you can here there is some awesome info from members on this site that can aid in becoming a better shooter.
That is true. The problem is sifting through 95% of the weeds....
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Old 04-29-2019, 7:16 AM
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Mdt is assuring me I donít need to bed. But Iím getting almost an 1/8 inch movement of the barell toward the forend as I draw down rear screw. Whatís yallís opinion?
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Old 04-29-2019, 7:36 AM
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did you tell them about the movement? and they still said its ok?
if yes id tell them i want a new chassis or my money back...if they do not step up and take care of you then id bed it i guess.

but that much movement is unacceptable and they should fix or replace it IMHO.
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Old 04-29-2019, 8:56 AM
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They told me to snug both, then torque front first. If they read my whole comment than they know about the amount of flex. I have since asked if they think thatís normal.
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Old 04-29-2019, 1:31 PM
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Originally Posted by audiopro74 View Post
They told me to snug both, then torque front first. If they read my whole comment than they know about the amount of flex. I have since asked if they think thatís normal.
yeah its not...i can see a tiny bit but not like you are saying...tell them its flexing you action so bad the bolt is dragging and you want a new chassis or money back.
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Old 04-29-2019, 3:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiopro74 View Post
Mdt is assuring me I don’t need to bed. But I’m getting almost an 1/8 inch movement of the barell toward the forend as I draw down rear screw. What’s yall’s opinion?
So who are you going to believe?
The manufacturer or your own empirical evidence?

A proper bedding job NEVER hurts the accuracy/precision.
Lack of proper bedding usually hurts accuracy/precision.

And when they say you don't NEED to bed, they mean it will work without it, not that it will work it's BEST without bedding.

Shoot a few test groups before you bed and keep them for reference.
Then bed it and shoot a few more groups under as similar test conditions as possible.
Report back what you find.
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Old 04-29-2019, 3:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longrange1 View Post
did you tell them about the movement? and they still said its ok?
if yes id tell them i want a new chassis or my money back...if they do not step up and take care of you then id bed it i guess.

but that much movement is unacceptable and they should fix or replace it IMHO.
Fixing it would require a redesign of the product.
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Old 04-29-2019, 4:52 PM
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Or a better product to start with.
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Old 04-29-2019, 5:03 PM
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At this point Iím not going to take the time to assemble it, then take it apart to bed it. Iím just going to bed it and be done. It may very well work fine without, but Iím not taking the risk. The manufacturer says no bedding, and I expect they wonít ever say anything but that, even if they know itís better. Iíll report back when all done.
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Old 04-29-2019, 5:51 PM
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Originally Posted by longrange1 View Post
yeah its not...i can see a tiny bit but not like you are saying...tell them its flexing you action so bad the bolt is dragging and you want a new chassis or money back.
An aluminum chassis can bend a steel action that much?
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  #39  
Old 04-30-2019, 3:56 AM
longrange1 longrange1 is offline
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
An aluminum chassis can bend a steel action that much?
yes!

re-read Randells post #6...and next time your looking at chassis's look at how thick they are in the receiver/mag well area compared to the receiver itself.
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Old 04-30-2019, 8:54 AM
sigstroker sigstroker is offline
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That just shows that SOMETHING is deflecting, not necessarily the action. It could be the chassis.
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