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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #41  
Old 02-26-2019, 7:22 PM
m1match m1match is offline
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Other thoughts- I don't own a Tikka, but quite a few people at our local matches shoot them and do very well with them. Last weekend at Pala the match winner shot a Tikka T3 in 6.5 Creedmoor that had been dropped in and bolted down to a KRG Bravo chassis. The KRG Bravo feels like a traditional stock and at $389 is a bargain. I have handled and shot Tikkas and I think they are an excellent value for the money. My own preference if I were just starting out would be for a Tikka T3 Compact Tactical Rifle in 6.5 CM, 24" barrel bolted into a KRG Bravo chassis. For a scope, I'd look for a used Vortex AMG with the EBR 7B reticle which are selling used for around $1800-2000 on places like Snipers Hide.

I have also handled and shot Ruger Precision Rifles and think that they are also an excellent value for the money. Much depends on whether you prefer the feel of a traditional stock and action or the modular chassis of something like the RPR.

Last edited by m1match; 02-26-2019 at 7:27 PM..
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  #42  
Old 02-26-2019, 11:19 PM
sigstroker sigstroker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m1match View Post
Other thoughts- I don't own a Tikka, but quite a few people at our local matches shoot them and do very well with them. Last weekend at Pala the match winner shot a Tikka T3 in 6.5 Creedmoor that had been dropped in and bolted down to a KRG Bravo chassis. The KRG Bravo feels like a traditional stock and at $389 is a bargain. I have handled and shot Tikkas and I think they are an excellent value for the money. My own preference if I were just starting out would be for a Tikka T3 Compact Tactical Rifle in 6.5 CM, 24" barrel bolted into a KRG Bravo chassis. For a scope, I'd look for a used Vortex AMG with the EBR 7B reticle which are selling used for around $1800-2000 on places like Snipers Hide.

I have also handled and shot Ruger Precision Rifles and think that they are also an excellent value for the money. Much depends on whether you prefer the feel of a traditional stock and action or the modular chassis of something like the RPR.
That's a lot of money for someone who just wants to try it out to see if he likes it. A CTR is a grand, $400 for a chassis, plus whatever for a scope.

I suggest that OP go find audiophil's thread on his poverty Ruger American rig, where he shoots it way beyond 1000 yards.

My other suggestion is a Savage 12FV. It's sold only by Cabela's. Full retail is $419 but they often run sales or rebates on it. The bad about the rifle is it's a design that's a few years old so it's not very smooth (the new Savages are like butter) and the bolt lift is fairly heavy. It also has a blind magazine, but unless you're shooting in competition you might as well single load it. The good about the rifle is the stock is not half bad for a cheap plastic stock, the barrel is beefy and 26" long, and it has an excellent trigger (mine was 2 pounds out of the box). The general wisdom on teh intarweb is they are very accurate.

These are a couple ways that OP can give it a try for not much money, but with equipment that performs well enough that he won't be horribly handicapped and get quickly discouraged.
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  #43  
Old 02-27-2019, 6:23 AM
m1match m1match is offline
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Yes there are less expensive rifles that would work also- I spoke about the Tikka because the OP mentioned it. If the OP does go with a Tikka, another option is just shoot it as it is with the OEM stock, for starters that would work fine then upgrades could be added later. The one thing I wouldn't do is skimp on the scope. In my opinion if you want to start out in the precision rifle area, the minimum scope you should consider should be something like a Vortex PST Gen2 or a Burris XTR II which are in the 800 to 1100 range, or even the Athlon Midas TAC which is around 700.

The best option if the OP has one is a friend who shoots precision rifle- that way the OP can try said friends rifle and get benefit of friends knowledge before spending any money.

Another thing I might add is about shooting in general, the biggest mistake I see people making is focusing on the equipment and spending money on that and not on acquiring the skill to use the equipment. Before anything else I would say to spend money on instruction from instructors who know what they are doing to develop the skill to use the equipment. I think many people don't do that because its easier to buy the shiny new toy than it is to develop shooting skill.

Last edited by m1match; 02-27-2019 at 6:40 AM..
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  #44  
Old 02-27-2019, 10:10 AM
sigstroker sigstroker is offline
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He doesn't even need scopes like that to start out. The SWFA 12x or 16x for $300 is perfectly adequate for banging 1000 yard steel. Youtubers West Desert Shooter and Social Regressive use them.
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  #45  
Old 03-03-2019, 7:42 AM
Erik_J Erik_J is offline
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I second the SWFA for value to learn on. I have both the 12x and 16x. Glass works to 1K just fine. Reliable tracking and repeatable. The eye box on the 16x is a bit too tight for my taste, the 12x is better.

I am glad I started with them given the cost, however, I can now understand the value of variable magnification to get a wider fov when needed. Once you out grow the fixed power scope, it makes a great backup scope in the future.

FWIW, I started with the Savage, worked for learning, but I wish I would have just stepped up to something like a Tikka right away. You may not like comp shooting, but you will always appreciate quality and function - no matter what kind/frequency of shooting you end up doing.
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  #46  
Old 03-03-2019, 8:09 AM
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Learn this first........ https://www.britannica.com/topic/diminishing-returns
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  #47  
Old 03-04-2019, 12:05 PM
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Don't discount the 6mm's, either. You can push a 115 grain Berger to 3100+ fps out of a 243 cartridge and still have it fit AICS magazines.The ballistics for that are very good, check it out. Compare that to a 142 6.5 going 2800 fps, which is what load data I see online. Maybe you can go faster, I dunno. the 6mm has less drop, less wind, less recoil, less cost, and passes the sound barrier later.

Tubbs sells HBN coated 115 DTAC's for around 30 cents a piece which is about as good as it gets for match grade bullets. 6.5's are more expensive, much less 7mm, 30 cal, and 338 cal which are each a step up in price.

Just a thought.
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  #48  
Old 03-04-2019, 1:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiterabbit View Post
Don't discount the 6mm's, either. You can push a 115 grain Berger to 3100+ fps out of a 243 cartridge and still have it fit AICS magazines.The ballistics for that are very good, check it out. Compare that to a 142 6.5 going 2800 fps, which is what load data I see online. Maybe you can go faster, I dunno. the 6mm has less drop, less wind, less recoil, less cost, and passes the sound barrier later.

Tubbs sells HBN coated 115 DTAC's for around 30 cents a piece which is about as good as it gets for match grade bullets. 6.5's are more expensive, much less 7mm, 30 cal, and 338 cal which are each a step up in price.

Just a thought.
I did an analysis a while back where we compared the price of shooting a 6mm and a 6.5mm.
At 5000 rounds through each, you will burn out 3 6mm barrels and 2 6.5mm barrels.
The difference in bullet cost of 6.5mm bullets will pay for the 3rd 6mm barrel blank so your parts costs of bullets and barrels are the same.
Since all the barrel blanks need gunsmithing to fit them to the action, it only costs you one gunsmithing charge more to shoot 5000 rounds because the 6mm burns out one extra barrel.
If you can get a barrel put on for $350, that means it costs you about 7 cents a round MORE to shoot a 6mm than a 6.5mm.
That's not much when you consider the 6mm benefits.
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  #49  
Old 03-04-2019, 1:31 PM
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Another thought to consider is that you and Lynn change out barrels when the accuracy degrades to the START of my abilities.

So, what is 3x and 2x barrels for you guys is probably 1x barrel for me, maybe 2x, maybe. Because if I have a 1/2 minute rifle open up to .875 minutes, I'm still making hits on man sized steel even though it's done as a target rifle. Because I don't compete in F-class, I just like to see the splash on steel through the reticle. Doesn't bother me if the target is 18 inches wide over 800+ yards away.

----------------------------------

What WOULD bother me, and the reason I would stay away from hunter rifles like the Ruger American (earlier recommended), is barrel profile. The light barrels are great to carry, but after 30 rounds (on my own hunting rifle) the groups go from holes touching (on a good day) to 3 inches at 100 yards, no matter what. That's fine for a hunting rifle, but I don't want to walk my shots in for a precision rifle (because I suck at reading the wind and don't compete anyways) just to spend the next 40 rounds dancing all around the target. That's a crummy day of shooting.

My RPR is .75" at the muzzle and even that seems to be small by precision rifle standards. But it's enough to get a good strong of shots in without getting overheated. Mirage off the barrel sets in before shots wander based on the barrel moving around. My 338 lap hunter was terrible after shot 3 (even though it was amazing for those first three), so it got sold.

Last edited by Whiterabbit; 03-04-2019 at 1:38 PM..
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  #50  
Old 03-04-2019, 10:32 PM
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I was going to drop $4K on a high end .308 bolt gun and instead spent $500 on a Sniper 1 class at ITTS first so I could learn how to shoot from professionals. Super glad I did that because of how much I learned about ballistics, optics, ranging, shot geometry, sniper/spotter communication, and technique. Rented one of their Remington700 .308s with a fixed 10x scope and I was able to hit everything and anything from 200 yards all the way out to 1021 yards on demand. Not because I'm special, but because the course was incredibly informative, and ITTS has cheat sheets for scope adjustments at known distances. The rental gun wasn't anything that I'd ever build myself, since I'm attracted to the latest shiny new thing, but by the end of day 2 I was seriously in love with that 30-year old rifle. The class gave me skills and knowledge I can use to pursue a better path versus just randomly deciding to get into precision rifle, and will save me time, money, and pain avoiding mistakes.
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  #51  
Old 03-06-2019, 6:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longrange1 View Post
none of this makes any sense to me...WHY can someone not learn fundamentals on a 6 or 6.5mm? and saying you can break a really bad shot with a 6 or 6.5 and not see it on target? ive never seen this...a bad shot is a bad shot its just a faster or slower miss.
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To REALLY learn the fundamentals of precision shooting(sights, trigger, position, hold, wind reading), I suggest getting an used 22LR match rifle and send 1000s of rounds down range at 50&100yds. You will learn A LOT w/o the distraction of noise, recoil & wasting $s thrown down range. There’s an old Japanese saying...”You must sit on the rock for two years before it becomes comfortable.”

Welcome to the games & enjoy the journey.

FYI - To practice reading the wind for 600yd regulation matches shooting 30-06 on a regulation target, you will have similar MOA clicks at 100yds shooting Match 22LR on the 100yd NRA Smallbore Target. Once the basics are understood, It’s not a complicated game...just a fun one.
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  #52  
Old 03-07-2019, 8:26 PM
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"I have 2 things running through my head - "
Some good info in this thread. I would find a way to shoot someone's rifle before jumping in the game. This would allow you to "fall in love" before you buy. And talk to someone who has shot your future rifle (and reloaded for it). This may be harder to do than say. But it has saved me $$ and space in my gun safe.
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  #53  
Old 03-31-2019, 7:53 PM
BIRDHUNTER757 BIRDHUNTER757 is offline
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If you live up around NorCal, out at the sac valley range, NCPPRC has a loaner gun program. https://ncpprc.com/club-loaner-rifle/, this is the link explaining the details.
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