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  #41  
Old 10-11-2018, 3:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Unbekannt View Post
I installed the mag release myself. I tightened it down pretty tight--I thought. I do the "Clint Smith" procedure of inserting the mag rather forcefully, then pulling on it to make sure it is seated. Is possible I am loosening it up by pulling on it? Maybe I'll slap it down again.
The end of the threaded post that the magazine release button threads on to should be FLUSH to the top of the magazine release button.
If you can see threads inside your magazine release button, you do not have the magazine catch threaded into the button far enough.
The symptom of a magazine catch not being threaded far enough into the release button is that the gun will not retain magazines properly and the mags will often drop down a little bit under the bolt and rounds will not strip from the magazine.

I believe you complained about this already.
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  #42  
Old 10-11-2018, 3:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Unbekannt View Post
So in my terminology, this is a mag release, not a bolt catch, right?

It seems to me the central component touching on all the movements of the bolt and round is the bolt catch. If the mag release is not holding the magazine in properly, then I should find out later today if applying upward pressure to the magazine while cycling it with the charging handle works flawlessly. If then not applying pressure causes a problem, then it will be looking more like the mag release.
The magazine release is the button that you press with your finger to get the magazine out of the gun.
The magazine catch is the bar that catches the magazine and has a post that threads into the magazine release.
The magazine catch spring sits inside the lower receiver, around the post of the magazine catch and press against the magazine release.
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  #43  
Old 10-11-2018, 4:20 PM
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First, sorry about all my terminology mistakes, Got the pictures and the description from AR15Barrels and I hope to do better now.

I took the AR out and removed the retaining pin and firing pin. For some reason it would not reinstall this way. The BCG just would not go in all the way. I gave up, re-installed the pin and retaining pin and just relied on the safety.

I ran ten rounds through using the charging handle and using my hand pressing up on the magazine as I held the rifle. No problems.

I ran ten rounds without holding on to the magazine. BIG PROBLEMS. Three jams in ten rounds. All these were misfeeds where one round was sitting on top of another.

3rd attempt, I pulled the charging handle back, locked it, and tried from there without holding the mag to put pressure on it. The first round was ok but more multiple jams after that in fact so many I gave up.

Does this narrow it down? Tell me what you think. Eventually we will get to adjusting the magazine catch.
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  #44  
Old 10-11-2018, 4:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Unbekannt View Post
First, sorry about all my terminology mistakes, Got the pictures and the description from AR15Barrels and I hope to do better now.

I took the AR out and removed the retaining pin and firing pin. For some reason it would not reinstall this way. The BCG just would not go in all the way. I gave up, re-installed the pin and retaining pin and just relied on the safety.

I ran ten rounds through using the charging handle and using my hand pressing up on the magazine as I held the rifle. No problems.

I ran ten rounds without holding on to the magazine. BIG PROBLEMS. Three jams in ten rounds. All these were misfeeds where one round was sitting on top of another.

3rd attempt, I pulled the charging handle back, locked it, and tried from there without holding the mag to put pressure on it. The first round was ok but more multiple jams after that in fact so many I gave up.

Does this narrow it down? Tell me what you think. Eventually we will get to adjusting the magazine catch.
What are you relying on the safety for?
The safety needs to be on FIRE for you to be able to fire the gun and the gun to cycle.

Are you doing this all on the bench without actually live firing?
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  #45  
Old 10-11-2018, 4:40 PM
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When’s the last time you gave your baby a real good cleaning? You shot thousands of rounds then started to jam.
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  #46  
Old 10-11-2018, 4:43 PM
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No firing, I was just repeated using the charging handle to strip off rounds and eject them.

I did look at the magazine release button and the threaded screw WAS NOT flush. I tightened it up three turns and it was a little too much, then two and not quite enough. Screw it, I tightened it up to three turns.

Unloaded, even the magpul mag went in and were retained but things change a bit with a loaded mag so we will see.
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  #47  
Old 10-11-2018, 4:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B.J.F. View Post
You donít have to worry about the bolt catch. If the BCG doesnít hang on the BC until empty mag your problem is elsewhere.

The mag release components consist of the catch, spring and button. That wouldnít be your issue either


Iím gonna suggest you remove the firing pin, and remove the trigger group for testing purposes at home. After that do this next suggestion...


Fill a mag press on bottom of mag while cycling all rounds. Pull the CH all the way back then release. See if it picks up the rounds.
This is what I was attempting to do.
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  #48  
Old 10-11-2018, 4:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Unbekannt View Post
No firing, I was just repeated using the charging handle to strip off rounds and eject them.

Unloaded, even the magpul mag went in and were retained but things change a bit with a loaded mag so we will see.
No further bench testing is going to tell you anything.
Lube the rifle.
Go to the range.
Fire 200 rounds.
If you have any stoppage of any sort, make a note of exactly what occurred. (ideally with a photo)
Report back.
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  #49  
Old 10-11-2018, 4:54 PM
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The safety has nothing to do with it. The firing pin is free floating. It CAN slam fire just by closing the bolt if timing is just right. It's infrequently reported to occur though.


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  #50  
Old 10-11-2018, 5:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kAnJii View Post
Whenís the last time you gave your baby a real good cleaning? You shot thousands of rounds then started to jam.
It is cleaned after each time I shoot. I mentioned giving it a white glove cleaning just before going out last time.
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  #51  
Old 10-11-2018, 5:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
No further bench testing is going to tell you anything.
Lube the rifle.
Go to the range.
Fire 200 rounds.
If you have any stoppage of any sort, make a note of exactly what occurred. (ideally with a photo)
Report back.
Then you think the mag catch adjustment was enough to make a difference?
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  #52  
Old 10-11-2018, 5:45 PM
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Then you think the mag catch adjustment was enough to make a difference?


Likely. Not guaranteed. It's a precision system. Not much margin for error.


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  #53  
Old 10-11-2018, 7:18 PM
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Question, since you did have a bullet button installed, then went factory mag and featureless.

When you put the factory mag release button on, did you reuse the bullet button spring or install a new or original spring between the catch and the button?
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  #54  
Old 10-11-2018, 7:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Unbekannt View Post
I installed the mag release myself. I tightened it down pretty tight--I thought. I do the "Clint Smith" procedure of inserting the mag rather forcefully, then pulling on it to make sure it is seated. Is possible I am loosening it up by pulling on it? Maybe I'll slap it down again.
Army method is give the mag a good slap on the bottom to make sure itís locked in place. Shouldnít have to pull on it. Kinda like slapping dat a $ $ on a chick.
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  #55  
Old 10-11-2018, 7:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unbekannt View Post
So in my terminology, this is a mag release, not a bolt catch, right?

It seems to me the central component touching on all the movements of the bolt and round is the bolt catch. If the mag release is not holding the magazine in properly, then I should find out later today if applying upward pressure to the magazine while cycling it with the charging handle works flawlessly. If then not applying pressure causes a problem, then it will be looking more like the mag release.
The 3 parts are, mag catch, spring and mag release button.

Thinking about it,

it is easy to disassemble those parts. Take apart inspect the mag catch, make sure there is no debris on it any where. Make sure the stud on the catch doesnít wiggle around. Inspect the channel for the catch on the receiver for debris. Make sure there is no wear on the catch itself where it would contact the mag.

I have a feeling that your spring for the catch is the issue. Either it is incorrect, it has been weakened by the previous BB setup or it is possible that it has split in 2 pieces causing a weak retention. Ordering a new spring shouldnít cost much, shipping will probably be more than the part. Might think about ordering a bushmaster 10 round non plastic mag for testing at the same time.


As for Magpul mags.... they were issue for me in the ARMY. Everyone in my battalion used them with out issue. Not trying to push them on you just a FYI. They are battle tested.
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  #56  
Old 10-11-2018, 7:59 PM
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No. I used all new parts on the magazine release. New button, spring, catch. I just tightened up the screw on the catch. To do this you depress the button. The spring felt fine to me. But if just tightening it three revolutions is not the ticket, I'll disassemble.

Googling this problem, two revolutions of tightening is a big deal. Also found this:

..... could still be a problem with the hammer catching the firing pin retainer pin to slow the carrier down, or even having a Extractor tension extractor spring with a O ring installed around it, and too much tension for the extractor to be able to open up to climb over the live ammo rim during loading.

I have a Sprinco extractor spring--the five coil one but no donut O ring. I have no idea what they are talking about with the hammer and firing pin retaining pin. Anybody ever heard of this?
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  #57  
Old 10-11-2018, 8:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unbekannt View Post
No. I used all new parts on the magazine release. New button, spring, catch. I just tightened up the screw on the catch. To do this you depress the button. The spring felt fine to me. But if just tightening it three revolutions is not the ticket, I'll disassemble.

Googling this problem, two revolutions of tightening is a big deal. Also found this:

..... could still be a problem with the hammer catching the firing pin retainer pin to slow the carrier down, or even having a Extractor tension extractor spring with a O ring installed around it, and too much tension for the extractor to be able to open up to climb over the live ammo rim during loading.

I have a Sprinco extractor spring--the five coil one but no donut O ring. I have no idea what they are talking about with the hammer and firing pin retaining pin. Anybody ever heard of this?

I havenít ventured into aftermarket parts. Just milspec stuff. No 2 stage triggers or drop in yet. Will do that for my target rifle one day. It has a free float and young national match hc bcg.
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  #58  
Old 10-11-2018, 8:08 PM
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The stud for your mag button should be flush at most. If the stud is sticking out beyond the button you need to back it off or rotate it 180 degrees. I have never had to adjust the button for tension with the springs that come with LPK’s
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  #59  
Old 10-11-2018, 8:59 PM
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Then you think the mag catch adjustment was enough to make a difference?
Yes.
Bench testing tells us almost nothing because it's static testing of a dynamic system.
You have to test a dynamic system dynamically to get meaningful results.
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  #60  
Old 10-12-2018, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Yes.
Bench testing tells us almost nothing because it's static testing of a dynamic system.
You have to test a dynamic system dynamically to get meaningful results.
OK. I am out of ammo except for my SHTF stash and my ten round bedside defense rounds so I'll have to make a run to the city. I'll post again with the results.

THANKS AGAIN TO ALL OF YOU!
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  #61  
Old 10-12-2018, 12:07 PM
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If you had 3 turns to go on your mag catch then it definitely wasn't tight enough.
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  #62  
Old 10-13-2018, 9:19 AM
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Updates?
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  #63  
Old 10-13-2018, 10:46 AM
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Updates?
Not for a couple days.
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  #64  
Old 10-15-2018, 12:44 PM
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BINGO---PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!

Ten rounds through USGI Type---flawless
Ten rounds through unknown plastic mag---flawless
Ten rounds through P-mag------flawless

Shot up the rest of my ammo on USGI type. Mags lock in easily, even pmag and nothing falls out. Rounds were stripped off perfectly, no jams at all, bolt locks back perfectly.

I CAN"T THANK YOU GUYS ENOUGH!!!!

To me this was looking like a new bolt catch or even new BCG but this cost me nothing, no real time, tiny adjustment which meant a lot. I feel really stupid at this point.

Special thanks to B.J.F., Exdc, and AR15Barrels for patiently nursing me through this.

I am so frickin' excited right now---ready for Antifa.

I may have to come off my extreme position about P-Mags.

THANKS to all of you again. I am in your debt.
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  #65  
Old 10-15-2018, 12:51 PM
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^
Good to hear.
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  #66  
Old 10-15-2018, 12:55 PM
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Happy to help! Don't feel stupid. I had a buffer tube out of spec on my first build. Only buy from reliable companies now. Had several people walk me through it and I'm just passing on the favor. Also, I've built too many ARs now. Very familiar with the function of each piece. I love our community.


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  #67  
Old 10-15-2018, 1:02 PM
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Happy to help! Don't feel stupid. I had a buffer tube out of spec on my first build. Only buy from reliable companies now. Had several people walk me through it and I'm just passing on the favor. Also, I've built too many ARs now. Very familiar with the function of each piece. I love our community.


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When i first put my m16 stock and buffer system on my rifle I forgot to put the m16 buffer in and I kept the m4 buffer and spring in.
Needless to say it didnt work... very well.
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  #68  
Old 10-15-2018, 2:04 PM
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I may have to come off my extreme position about P-Mags.
Yes.
Go try and make one fail without physically deforming it.
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  #69  
Old 10-15-2018, 2:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Yes.
Go try and make one fail without physically deforming it.
mine always fail at the top of the mag catch engagement window to the point that constant loading and reloading wears it down to a round and I can eventually just pull the mag out even though its 'engaged' the mag catch. This tends to happen for me the tighter I have my mag release.

I spend a lot of my time at the range going through these manipulations so maybe under normal conditions this wouldn't happen.
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  #70  
Old 10-15-2018, 4:10 PM
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mine always fail at the top of the mag catch engagement window to the point that constant loading and reloading wears it down to a round and I can eventually just pull the mag out even though its 'engaged' the mag catch.
Congrats on physically deforming the mag.
Most people don't ever use them enough to do that.
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  #71  
Old 10-16-2018, 2:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unbekannt View Post
BINGO---PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!

Ten rounds through USGI Type---flawless
Ten rounds through unknown plastic mag---flawless
Ten rounds through P-mag------flawless

Shot up the rest of my ammo on USGI type. Mags lock in easily, even pmag and nothing falls out. Rounds were stripped off perfectly, no jams at all, bolt locks back perfectly.

I CAN"T THANK YOU GUYS ENOUGH!!!!

To me this was looking like a new bolt catch or even new BCG but this cost me nothing, no real time, tiny adjustment which meant a lot. I feel really stupid at this point.

Special thanks to B.J.F., Exdc, and AR15Barrels for patiently nursing me through this.

I am so frickin' excited right now---ready for Antifa.

I may have to come off my extreme position about P-Mags.

THANKS to all of you again. I am in your debt.
So what was the problem after all?
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  #72  
Old 10-16-2018, 5:42 PM
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So what was the problem after all?
It was the mag catch not being in far enough. I tightened it up three turns and it made all the difference.
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  #73  
Old 10-16-2018, 6:53 PM
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It was the mag catch not being in far enough. I tightened it up three turns and it made all the difference.


Yup. I called that in post 33


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.308 KINGPINS IN PRODUCTION


Kingpin and Hyperswitch FAQ and troubleshoot

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1428078
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  #74  
Old 10-17-2018, 10:38 AM
Unbekannt Unbekannt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ5&G23 View Post
I'm getting the impression you may not have assembled the mag catch correctly. You tighten the mag release button until it's just flush with the right side of your receiver. Then, you press the button in completely far enough to extend the mag catch out of the left side of the receiver. You then grab the mag catch and pull it out even further while you rotate it clockwise until the mag release button is basically flush with the threaded stud in its center. If you only tightened the mag release button until it was flush with the right side of your receiver you didn't tighten it enough.
Yes, I tightened it.
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  #75  
Old 10-17-2018, 10:32 PM
ekkthree ekkthree is offline
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Interesting.
I just ran into this tonight with my new to me ar. Wrinkle is that it only did this with the first round. Once i got it shooting, the remaining rounds were no problem. Native 10rd pmags only btw.
Ill check that mag catch too. Hopefully its that simple.
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  #76  
Old 10-18-2018, 10:28 AM
Weyoun Weyoun is offline
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Originally Posted by ekkthree View Post
Interesting.
I just ran into this tonight with my new to me ar. Wrinkle is that it only did this with the first round. Once i got it shooting, the remaining rounds were no problem. Native 10rd pmags only btw.
Ill check that mag catch too. Hopefully its that simple.
Perhaps the new AR didn't have the oil distributed correctly so there was too much friction, but the first shot caused the oil to distribute correctly; or, the first shot flushed out some stuff in the gas tube so subsequent shots had correct amount of gas.
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  #77  
Old 10-18-2018, 10:51 AM
ekkthree ekkthree is offline
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did this maybe 4 or 5 times over the course of an hour or so. but only after mag changes so i initially thought i had grabbed an empty mag.
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  #78  
Old 10-18-2018, 12:39 PM
Unbekannt Unbekannt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekkthree View Post
Interesting.
I just ran into this tonight with my new to me ar. Wrinkle is that it only did this with the first round. Once i got it shooting, the remaining rounds were no problem. Native 10rd pmags only btw.
Ill check that mag catch too. Hopefully its that simple.
This is exactly how my problem started. It started sometimes, and on the first round. I just kept getting worse.
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  #79  
Old 10-18-2018, 12:55 PM
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CaliforniaCowboy CaliforniaCowboy is offline
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Glad he got it fixed. Before seeing the problem solved I was going to ask if there were any marks left on the round that was not being stripped from the mag, to see if contact was being made on the rim or on the surface of the round at all and also if any adjustment was made to the Gas block. I had my gas block work a little loose once (have since had it pinned in place by a local smith) and suddenly the rifle was not stripping rounds correctly every few rounds. But looks like he found the issue.
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  #80  
Old 10-18-2018, 4:57 PM
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Originally Posted by CaliforniaCowboy View Post
Glad he got it fixed. Before seeing the problem solved I was going to ask if there were any marks left on the round that was not being stripped from the mag, to see if contact was being made on the rim or on the surface of the round at all and also if any adjustment was made to the Gas block. I had my gas block work a little loose once (have since had it pinned in place by a local smith) and suddenly the rifle was not stripping rounds correctly every few rounds. But looks like he found the issue.

I just checked those rounds for flaws. I already found one with a crease in the shoulder where it narrows towards the bullet. A second round's bullet was compressed back into the body of the round --little scary looking. Both rounds are set aside. The other eight went back into the mag but will be used for range rather than self defense. There are scratches on these rounds but who knows when this happened. No alterations at all around the end which engages with the firing pin.
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