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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'. |
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#1
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Would you buy land with a river or creek on it?
With the threat of the EPA stopping you from building and all sorts of other property damaging regulations and rules is it worth it? The EPA recently said they own ANY water source including small creeks on private property.
Just one example of land for sale with a spring and creek. http://www.flexmls.com/cgi-bin/mainm...s=7&id=1&cid=1 |
#4
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Nice property OP but kind of pricey imho. If a person is paying $115k just for the land; property taxes will be something to think about. Once you build something the assessed value will probably be twice that, and taxes will go up too. I'm more of a bargain buyer when it comes to land. Btw, from my digging so far building regulations seem to be much easier to deal with in remote areas compared to in the Los Angeles area.
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#5
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IMO, it all depends on the specifics of the property in question.
There is a lot of value to having multiple water sources, particularly when one of them isn't dependent on power/pumps/pressure tank systems, etc. But, as you say, the EPA can get in your way of doing what you want to do with the property. You also need to check out what water rights come with the property. Just because that stream runs through your land doesn't mean you have the right to take any water out of it. If the property does come with water rights, and if the size and topography of the property are such that you can develop the land while staying far enough away from the water source to minimize any chance of the EPA getting involved then I'd give it some serious thought.
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Dave Lifetime Member, Second Amendment Foundation |
#6
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Check with Fish & Game too. They have a lot of jurisdiction over streams & rivers. Seasonal or year round.. doesn't matter. I had to involve them when we were replacing a bridge that went over a seasonal stream. Had to make sure the moorings for the bridge didn't "impede flow of the water for fish migration". Ridiculous, but something to deal with.
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#7
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This, plus, just because the EPA says something (did they actually say this?) doesn't mean it's true. Has it been challenged in court?
And did you have your heart set on building a dam? If so, you'll probably have big EPA (and/or other agency) hassles, but if you just fish in the river / other low-impact use, I doubt anyone will care. So your desired level of utilization matters. Obv building a (e.g.) dam after the SHTF is problematic -- we can all agree you'd want your ducks in a row before the going gets tough, not trying to pull off a construction project when you're potentially defending your life, so again, level of use matters. If your envisioned level of use is high (let's say you want to generate power from the water flow, and are thinking you'll build a dam), then specify it, and maybe there are alternatives some here can suggest which won't freak out some govt agency?
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#8
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#10
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Depending on the speed of the current, I'd think a paddle wheel setup would be the best setup for generating electricity.
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#11
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Absolutely!
I'd just look at it as an alternate water source. And you could have all the gear ready to do a water-wheel generator or dam, but don't set it up until you are actually dealing with SHTF, and power is actually out. I'd imagine a very simple setup could be done using automobile alternators. |
#12
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You should check with the county the land is in. You will find that when you leave Calif. you leave the bueracracy behind. My dad had 680 acres in Montana. He asked about permits and restrictions as he wanted to build a small cabin. They looked at him strangely like "What are you talking about, it's your property". There was a small stream on the property. Do your homework and good luck.
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Dec. 15, 1791 "The Right Of The People To Keep And Bear Arms Shall Not Be Infringed" EVER!!!!! NRA Life Member: Benefactor Calguns Supporter CRPA Supporter Second Amendment Foundation Life Member Defender Club |
#13
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Dave Lifetime Member, Second Amendment Foundation |
#14
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You haven't moved yet? Thought you were already in Idaho.
As long as you're not watering crops or damming the stream, I don't see where that would be a problem. Other than flooding.
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It cannot be inherited, nor can it ever be purchased. You and no one alive can buy it for any price. It is impossible to rent and cannot be lent. You alone and our own have earned it with...Your sweat, blood and lives. You own it forever. The title is....."United States Marine". |
#15
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Why would you tease me PC with such a beutifull property lol Can the EPA still harrass you if you own the mineral rights? Ive been looking myself at the Idaho getaway but I am looking more of a 50k range with water on the property. Found a few but dont want the dam EPA or any other agency sticking their nose in my buissness.
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Norman Thomas - "The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of "liberalism" they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing what happened. Winston Churchill -We contend that for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. - If you have ten thousand regulations, you destroy all respect for the law. " |
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#18
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I would prefer to buy land with a water source on it.
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http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php Thank your neighbor and fellow gun owners for passing Prop 63. For that gun control is a winning legislative agenda. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A contact the governor https://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php In Memory of Spc Torres May 5th 2006 al-Hillah, Iraq. I will miss you my friend. NRA Life Member. |
#21
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Soon the EPA will seize control of all aquifer water. Mark my words.
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"The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all other rights have failed—where the government refuses to stand for re-election and silences those who protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake free people get to make only once." - Justice Alex Kozinski, 9th US Circuit Crt of Appeals |
#22
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My dad has property in rural washington, nearest town has a population of about 300 last I checked. His neighbor is his friend from Kindergarden, they have a joint creek that runs through their valley dammed and a water wheel build in it, never once heard of EPA problems. His friends been there for 30yrs, my dad for 9. I will point out that he did build his waterwheel so the fish could go around it, basically brought in rocks from further up to build a split in the creek.
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#23
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Prefer a natural spring to a creek, and I would avoid any kind of obvious tributary to a larger water supply. That said there are probably 10,000's of "creeks" that aren't or don't really seem to be or aren't regulated - if you build a damn copy the beaver and blame them.
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#24
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Here's an article about one method of developing a spring as a backup water source. This was written by the realtor we used when we bought our property in ID. He used a water witcher to help find likely locations. I'm a little skeptical about whether that's worthwhile, but he swears by them. When we were up walking our property in early December we think we found a natural spring on the surface. Everything was frozen solid, so it was a little hard to tell for sure, so we'll have to check it out when we're back up there in June.
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Dave Lifetime Member, Second Amendment Foundation |
#26
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Dave Lifetime Member, Second Amendment Foundation |
#27
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My brother looked at some land with a stream. He had the map with all the set-backs and easements; he could use 20% of 5 acres. Too many people in Kali to buy land on a wetland, you do that way out in the country.
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#28
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Out of this micromanaged socialist government state? You bet. In it? Doubtful.
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"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- Thomas Jefferson 9mm + 5.56mm = .45ACP + 7.62 NATO = 10mm + 6.8 SPC = Et Verbum caro factum est et habitavit in nobis; Jn 1:14 |
#29
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Now, this is not California. This is in Bonner County Idaho, which has to have one of the least intrusive approaches to private property development in the country. So the OP's concern is legitimate based on the behavior of Fed.Gov in recent times. I'm not necessarily suggesting that all properties with surface water features should be avoided, but certainly go in with your eyes open.
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Dave Lifetime Member, Second Amendment Foundation |
#30
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^ Good point! EPA is Federal, not state.
I found this article and video: http://www.krem.com/news/local/North...140381543.html Quote:
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#33
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Or learn what really happened before shooting off. A neighbor , who didn't want them to build and block his view of the water, called EPA and said they were building on wetlands, which they were NOT!. Its like calling SWAT on a person who is innocent and SWAT murders the whole family.
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#34
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I am not convinced it's all for good reason. With programs like Agenda 21 under consideration I think there elements of the environmental movement that want to drive people out of rural areas and back to the cities. The EPA serves as the henchmen for this movement.
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Dave Lifetime Member, Second Amendment Foundation |
#35
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the EPA doesn't take some "neighbors" word to determine what a Wetland is...or is not |
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#38
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Norman Thomas - "The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of "liberalism" they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing what happened. Winston Churchill -We contend that for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. - If you have ten thousand regulations, you destroy all respect for the law. " |
#39
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"The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all other rights have failed—where the government refuses to stand for re-election and silences those who protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake free people get to make only once." - Justice Alex Kozinski, 9th US Circuit Crt of Appeals |
#40
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Sure looks that way. They must have really hated him. |
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