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  #81  
Old 05-23-2019, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ThatOneTurnersGuy View Post
Martin you order looks to be filled, we may have just allocated it. I would contact the store to see if you are all set ready to go.
Thanks Chris! I'll call tomorrow morning.
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  #82  
Old 05-27-2019, 5:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ThatOneTurnersGuy View Post
W just started receiving some substantial shipments and are getting deliveries every week. We just got caught up in the silver models so if you had one of those you should be expecting a call soon.
I Pre-Ordered one of the Burnt Bronze Models. Any word on when they will be in? May Is coming to an end in a few days .
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  #83  
Old 05-28-2019, 7:47 AM
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I Pre-Ordered one of the Burnt Bronze Models. Any word on when they will be in? May Is coming to an end in a few days .
The Burnt bronze were back ordered in much higher qtys than the other colors and we are still getting all caught up on those orders. We are receiving orders fairly frequently but I dont have a hard ETA on when they will all be filled.
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  #84  
Old 06-23-2019, 9:26 PM
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Any news of a store opening along SF Peninsula and South Bay?
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  #85  
Old 06-24-2019, 7:10 AM
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Any news of a store opening along SF Peninsula and South Bay?
we've got a bunch of new locations planned throughout Ca but nothing we can divulge just yet, stay tuned.
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  #86  
Old 07-30-2019, 12:25 PM
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Chris,
I purchased a rifle at the Turner's in San Diego. Around day 5 I got a call saying that my DROS was delayed. The employee, John, told me that if nothing happened in 30 days that I would be able to pick up my rifle. Now I'm being told that won't happen. When I asked the second person at the store, they just kind of shuffled around the issue and said that might have been their department head and wouldn't tell me anything else. Needless to say, I'm pretty unhappy about this service. Is it just a solid policy to not release on undetermined? Why would someone at the store tell me that Turner's would release on undetermined when they informed me of my delay?

Last edited by marc.; 07-30-2019 at 9:08 PM..
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  #87  
Old 07-31-2019, 6:40 AM
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Chris,
I purchased a rifle at the Turner's in San Diego. Around day 5 I got a call saying that my DROS was delayed. The employee, John, told me that if nothing happened in 30 days that I would be able to pick up my rifle. Now I'm being told that won't happen. When I asked the second person at the store, they just kind of shuffled around the issue and said that might have been their department head and wouldn't tell me anything else. Needless to say, I'm pretty unhappy about this service. Is it just a solid policy to not release on undetermined? Why would someone at the store tell me that Turner's would release on undetermined when they informed me of my delay?
I'm sorry for all the confusion. As I'm sure you are aware a while back the law was changed and DOJ can no longer have indefinite undermined DROSs. They then left it to the dealer to either deliver the firearm without an approval or not. As a policy, Turner's does not deliver any firearm without an approval. As we haven't gone undetermined yet, there is no way to know the reasoning. If it does go to undetermined, there is something being flagged with your name or identifying information. There can be a number of reasons for this but regardless it's something you're going to want to take care of. My father had a similar instance where someone with the same name was being flagged whenever he tried to purchase a gun and the other person was a prohibited purchaser. If we do get to the undetermined point, it's best to follow through with a live scan to clear up all your information. If we do get to that point all your funds will be reimbursed minus the DROS fee.
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Last edited by ThatOneTurnersGuy; 07-31-2019 at 6:42 AM.. Reason: typo
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  #88  
Old 07-31-2019, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by ThatOneTurnersGuy View Post
I'm sorry for all the confusion. As I'm sure you are aware a while back the law was changed and DOJ can no longer have indefinite undermined DROSs. They then left it to the dealer to either deliver the firearm without an approval or not. As a policy, Turner's does not deliver any firearm without an approval. As we haven't gone undetermined yet, there is no way to know the reasoning. If it does go to undetermined, there is something being flagged with your name or identifying information. There can be a number of reasons for this but regardless it's something you're going to want to take care of. My father had a similar instance where someone with the same name was being flagged whenever he tried to purchase a gun and the other person was a prohibited purchaser. If we do get to the undetermined point, it's best to follow through with a live scan to clear up all your information. If we do get to that point all your funds will be reimbursed minus the DROS fee.
Honestly, I don't need an explanation of why delays happen. There's plenty of info on that topic on this forum about why it could happen, as explained in the letter that is sent out. There's also a high amount of information on here about the legality of why it should be released. Would be nice if you could read that and pass it along. I want to know the reasoning behind your decision to not release guns on undetermined status like most other shops. The liability excuse doesn't really work. There hasn't been the slightest hint of an FFL being liable for anything from an undermined release. I really would just like a real answer. Giving a refund minus the DROS fee is STILL completely wasting my money. I wasn't told early enough in to the DROS to even get a love scan done in time to find out what's wrong.
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  #89  
Old 08-01-2019, 3:16 AM
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Originally Posted by ThatOneTurnersGuy View Post
1).... I'm sorry for all the confusion. As I'm sure you are aware a while back the law was changed and DOJ can no longer have indefinite undermined DROSs.

2).... They then left it to the dealer to either deliver the firearm without an approval or not.

3).... As a policy, Turner's does not deliver any firearm without an approval. As we haven't gone undetermined yet, there is no way to know the reasoning.

4)....[a]...If it does go to undetermined, there is something being flagged with your name or identifying information. There can be a number of reasons for this but regardless it's something you're going to want to take care of.[b]....My father had a similar instance where someone with the same name was being flagged whenever he tried to purchase a gun and the other person was a prohibited purchaser. If we do get to the undetermined point, it's best to follow through with a live scan to clear up all your information.

5).... If we do get to that point all your funds will be reimbursed minus the DROS fee.

1).... If by "a while back", you mean October of 2013, when "AB-500" was passed, or Jan 1, 2014, when the change was codified as PC-28220 (4). That is QUITE A WHILE BACK. And the purpose of the change was to rectify previous abuses by DOJ, for NOT RELEASING, lawfully purchased firearms to non-prohibited persons.

2).... That is an erroneous statement. Not supported by the legislative intent of AB-500. Or the PC as written to codify it as PC-28220 (4). That is a falsity perpetrated by former AG Harris. And only appears on the DOJ-FAQ page. Falsely implying a non existent discretion to FFLs on an undertermined status delivery.

Please read both quoted statutes below. And take note of the specifically EXACT SAME WORDING INCLUDED. In both. To describe "APPROVED/UNDETERMINED after 30 DAYS" to "immediately transfer the firearm to purchaser." ERGO, Undetermined after 30 days is an approval to immediately transfer.


Quote:
From text of PC-28220 (f)(3)(A), describing "approved"

Quote:
(A) If the purchaser is not a person described in subdivision (a) of Section 27535, and is not prohibited by state or federal law, including, but not limited to, Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm, the department shall immediately notify the dealer of that fact and the dealer may then immediately transfer the firearm to the purchaser, upon the dealerís recording on the register or record of electronic transfer the date that the firearm is transferred, the dealer signing the register or record of electronic transfer indicating delivery of the firearm to that purchaser, and the purchaser signing the register or record of electronic transfer acknowledging the receipt of the firearm on the date that the firearm is delivered to him or her.
Quote:

From text of PC-28220 (4), describing "undetermined" after 30 days.


Quote:
(4) If the department is unable to ascertain the final disposition of the arrest or criminal charge, or the outcome of the mental health treatment or evaluation, or the purchaserís eligibility to purchase a firearm, as described in paragraph (1), within 30 days of the dealerís original submission of purchaser information to the department pursuant to this section, the department shall immediately notify the dealer and the dealer may then immediately transfer the firearm to the purchaser, upon the dealerís recording on the register or record of electronic transfer the date that the firearm is transferred, the dealer signing the register or record of electronic transfer indicating delivery of the firearm to that purchaser, and the purchaser signing the register or record of electronic transfer acknowledging the receipt of the firearm on the date that the firearm is delivered to him or her.
3).... Undetermined Status after 30 days is an unambiguously approval, as shown by the laws provided. And was the express purpose that AB-500 was passed, and codified.

4)....[a]... Incorrect............If there were a "flag" it would trigger a "denied" reply. Undetermined just means what it says. Usually that grossly short handed DROS personnel just passed it over. [b]... Placing an expensive and unnecessary onus on customers to "straighten out" incompetent DOJ screw ups. Before you will fulfill your business obligation. NOT GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICE.

5).... WHY minus the "DROS FEE"? Since Turner's own "extra legal" POLICY is all that stops Turner's from completing the transaction. Not any law of the state. Turner's should give any customer arbitrarily denied their lawful purchase a FULL refund.

And please don't claim any "liability avoidance motive" for this policy. PLCAA protects FFLs from any and all third party liability.
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  #90  
Old 08-01-2019, 3:36 AM
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  #91  
Old 08-01-2019, 6:36 AM
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Originally Posted by marc. View Post
Honestly, I don't need an explanation of why delays happen. There's plenty of info on that topic on this forum about why it could happen, as explained in the letter that is sent out. There's also a high amount of information on here about the legality of why it should be released. Would be nice if you could read that and pass it along. I want to know the reasoning behind your decision to not release guns on undetermined status like most other shops. The liability excuse doesn't really work. There hasn't been the slightest hint of an FFL being liable for anything from an undermined release. I really would just like a real answer. Giving a refund minus the DROS fee is STILL completely wasting my money. I wasn't told early enough in to the DROS to even get a love scan done in time to find out what's wrong.

Short answer, it's our policy. Those well above my pay grade and our lawyers who are on the front lines of the 2A fight here in Ca have come to this decision based on many factors, few of which I am privy to.
Regarding the delay, while others have suggested that it may simply be a delay due to too high volume, there is likely some hang up causing the delay that we have no way of knowing about nor any reason to suggest doing a live scan prior to submitting the dros. I'm not sure if it's been 30 days yet as your post isn't specific about where you are at in the process, but, as is stands, if you do go to undetermined, more than likely the next time you submit a DROS you will encounter another delay that will once again go undetermined until a live scan is completed to sort everything out. I know that's not the easiest thing to do and I know you are likely not pleased with the answer, but we've been in business since 1971 and have been dealing with Ca laws and the murky waters they create and have come to our decisions based on experience and input from experts in the industry. We will, as always, strive to make the best decisions possible to continue to be able to offer our products and services in Ca for as long as we can.
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  #92  
Old 08-01-2019, 6:44 AM
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Originally Posted by pacrat View Post
1).... If by "a while back", you mean October of 2013, when "AB-500" was passed, or Jan 1, 2014, when the change was codified as PC-28220 (4). That is QUITE A WHILE BACK. And the purpose of the change was to rectify previous abuses by DOJ, for NOT RELEASING, lawfully purchased firearms to non-prohibited persons.

2).... That is an erroneous statement. Not supported by the legislative intent of AB-500. Or the PC as written to codify it as PC-28220 (4). That is a falsity perpetrated by former AG Harris. And only appears on the DOJ-FAQ page. Falsely implying a non existent discretion to FFLs on an undertermined status delivery.

Please read both quoted statutes below. And take note of the specifically EXACT SAME WORDING INCLUDED. In both. To describe "APPROVED/UNDETERMINED after 30 DAYS" to "immediately transfer the firearm to purchaser." ERGO, Undetermined after 30 days is an approval to immediately transfer.




3).... Undetermined Status after 30 days is an unambiguously approval, as shown by the laws provided. And was the express purpose that AB-500 was passed, and codified.

4)....[a]... Incorrect............If there were a "flag" it would trigger a "denied" reply. Undetermined just means what it says. Usually that grossly short handed DROS personnel just passed it over. [b]... Placing an expensive and unnecessary onus on customers to "straighten out" incompetent DOJ screw ups. Before you will fulfill your business obligation. NOT GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICE.

5).... WHY minus the "DROS FEE"? Since Turner's own "extra legal" POLICY is all that stops Turner's from completing the transaction. Not any law of the state. Turner's should give any customer arbitrarily denied their lawful purchase a FULL refund.

And please don't claim any "liability avoidance motive" for this policy. PLCAA protects FFLs from any and all third party liability.

We truly do appreciate the passion shown when it comes to these issues, it's people in like you all in our community that still fight to keep our rights as intact as possible even when constantly under fire. Like I said earlier, these decisions are made well above my pay grade and executive team and lawyers don't make any decision lightly or without regard to the wording of the law and have most assuredly poured over every part of that penal code and relevant information.
While there are dealers out there that may deliver firearms under those circumstances, we can't speak to their practices and what they may or may not be doing, we can only speak to the fact that we are doing everything we can to ensure our ability to stay in business and offer what is left of the 2A here in California to as many of our neighbors as possible.
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  #93  
Old 08-01-2019, 6:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ThatOneTurnersGuy View Post
We truly do appreciate the passion shown when it comes to these issues, it's people in like you all in our community that still fight to keep our rights as intact as possible even when constantly under fire. Like I said earlier, these decisions are made well above my pay grade and executive team and lawyers don't make any decision lightly or without regard to the wording of the law and have most assuredly poured over every part of that penal code and relevant information.
While there are dealers out there that may deliver firearms under those circumstances, we can't speak to their practices and what they may or may not be doing, we can only speak to the fact that we are doing everything we can to ensure our ability to stay in business and offer what is left of the 2A here in California to as many of our neighbors as possible.
With this quote from your first post here, I understand your position as "liaison" to the PTBs. And appreciate any and all help you provide to CG members.

Quote:
I'm going to be helping out here and doing what I can to answer any questions or concerns or do my best to pass along those issues that I can't resolve.
Hopefully, you will present, and advocate for, what is clearly defined in the statutes provided. And help the PTBs to understand it is in their own, as well as all lawful gun buyers best interest to "lawfully deliver after a 30 day delayed status".

And that they will reject, the intentionally deceptive, and erroneous info on the DOJ -FAQ. Which I will quote below. So you, and the PTBs can for yourselves. See and compare the glaringly false premise it contains, in direct contradiction of the statute as written.

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms

Quote:
Undetermined
The California Department of Justice (the Department) is authorized by Penal Code section 28220 to temporarily delay a firearm transaction for up to 30 days from the date of transaction when the Department is unable to immediately determine the purchaser's eligibility to own/possess firearms. If 30 days has passed since the transaction date and the Department is still unable to determine the purchaserís eligibility to own/possess firearms or whether the firearm involved in the sale/transfer is stolen, the Department will notify the dealer. It will then be at the dealerís sole discretion whether to release to you the firearm.
No discretion is granted, implied, or inferred in the statutes I quoted above. And none was included in AB-500. No surprise that radical anti 2A, AG K Harris lied.

CalGuns is the largest Pro 2A forum in Ca. 21,519 active members, daily read how "sucky" Turner's is. The overwhelming majority of posts regarding Turner's are "negative". Please venture outside this specific "Turners Vendor" forum on CG. Pro-actively engaging members. Rather than just "fielding complaints" on this limited platform. Will likely go far to change that negativity. Very few members with beefs post here. They go to other CG forums to complain. Then never return to your store.

Utilize the search function and explore both "Turner's" and "undetermined". And you will see. Changing a policy that arbitrarily denies 2A rights of lawful purchasers [customers]. To one that LAWFULLY delivers "after a 30 day delay". Will go far to improve members impressions and opinions.

Thank you for engaging. And hopefully with your help, both Turner's and their Customers can benefit.
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  #94  
Old 08-02-2019, 2:17 PM
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Originally Posted by pacrat View Post
With this quote from your first post here, I understand your position as "liaison" to the PTBs. And appreciate any and all help you provide to CG members.



Hopefully, you will present, and advocate for, what is clearly defined in the statutes provided. And help the PTBs to understand it is in their own, as well as all lawful gun buyers best interest to "lawfully deliver after a 30 day delayed status".

And that they will reject, the intentionally deceptive, and erroneous info on the DOJ -FAQ. Which I will quote below. So you, and the PTBs can for yourselves. See and compare the glaringly false premise it contains, in direct contradiction of the statute as written.

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms



No discretion is granted, implied, or inferred in the statutes I quoted above. And none was included in AB-500. No surprise that radical anti 2A, AG K Harris lied.

CalGuns is the largest Pro 2A forum in Ca. 21,519 active members, daily read how "sucky" Turner's is. The overwhelming majority of posts regarding Turner's are "negative". Please venture outside this specific "Turners Vendor" forum on CG. Pro-actively engaging members. Rather than just "fielding complaints" on this limited platform. Will likely go far to change that negativity. Very few members with beefs post here. They go to other CG forums to complain. Then never return to your store.

Utilize the search function and explore both "Turner's" and "undetermined". And you will see. Changing a policy that arbitrarily denies 2A rights of lawful purchasers [customers]. To one that LAWFULLY delivers "after a 30 day delay". Will go far to improve members impressions and opinions.

Thank you for engaging. And hopefully with your help, both Turner's and their Customers can benefit.

Thanks again for taking the time to write these responses. I do my best to pass these along share these concerns with the team. I also search turners and from what I've learned the not so affectionately coined moniker "Turdners" throughout the forum here and as time permits, do my best to respond or at the very least pass along the concerns to the PTB. We are striving to be the best that we can but as always there are growing pains that we attempt to address.
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  #95  
Old 08-03-2019, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ThatOneTurnersGuy View Post
Thanks again for taking the time to write these responses. I do my best to pass these along share these concerns with the team. I also search turners and from what I've learned the not so affectionately coined moniker "Turdners" throughout the forum here and as time permits, do my best to respond or at the very least pass along the concerns to the PTB. We are striving to be the best that we can but as always there are growing pains that we attempt to address.
Day 32.. got a call saying that I changed to undetermined. The employee gave me the "now that it's undetermined, we can't release your firearm."

-let's change "can't" to "won't"
-saying it's "my firearm" definitely implies that you're holding on to my property.

In any case.. I haven't bad mouthed Turner's other than saying that you've lost my business.

I do hope that all of this information is passed up your chain of command.
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  #96  
Old 09-26-2019, 9:47 PM
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Wow that is some serious hostility in the last few posts. I haven't been on the forum in a bit, just logged in and noticed Turners had a vendor sub-forum now. Just wanted to say that I respect a businesses freedom to have their own policies in regards to how they run their business (as long as it is lawful). If a business does not want to sell something to someone they should have that right as it is part of a functional capitalist economic system.

Also it is really awesome that we actually now have a Turners here locally. I really hated the other local options in the Salinas area. The prices at Turners are way cheaper and the selection of used firearms is pretty sweet.

I also have a question; I saw that on the Turners web site there is a large number of used firearms. However when I went in to the store there were even more firearms (specifically was looking at 1911s) that I did not see listed at all on the site. Is the full inventory of different stores not listed? Is there some other way to get a more complete listing of what other stores have?
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  #97  
Old 09-27-2019, 5:53 AM
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Wow that is some serious hostility in the last few posts. I haven't been on the forum in a bit, just logged in and noticed Turners had a vendor sub-forum now. Just wanted to say that I respect a businesses freedom to have their own policies in regards to how they run their business (as long as it is lawful). If a business does not want to sell something to someone they should have that right as it is part of a functional capitalist economic system.

Also it is really awesome that we actually now have a Turners here locally. I really hated the other local options in the Salinas area. The prices at Turners are way cheaper and the selection of used firearms is pretty sweet.

I also have a question; I saw that on the Turners web site there is a large number of used firearms. However when I went in to the store there were even more firearms (specifically was looking at 1911s) that I did not see listed at all on the site. Is the full inventory of different stores not listed? Is there some other way to get a more complete listing of what other stores have?

Glad we could bring a Turner's a bit closer to you. As for the used and consignment listing for now the online gun rack is the most up to date and current listing of used guns, however, that is updated as time permits through the stores. Sometimes, when there is a large buy or high traffic in the stores, we aren't able to get the guns up and listed right away.
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Kearny Mesa | Lake Forest | Norwalk | Orange
Oxnard | Pasadena | Rancho Cucamonga | Reseda
San Bernardino | San Marcos | Signal Hill
Temecula | Torrance | Victorville | West Covina | Salinas
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  #98  
Old 09-30-2019, 4:01 PM
ngnrnlo ngnrnlo is offline
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Default Glocktoberfest 2019

How about a decent glocktoberfest this year. No gimmicks like hats or bags.

May be a glock with no magazine at a serious discount? $439 for the 17, 19, 26, 34?

I think everyone here already got their 17 round magazines on freedom week, and can do without the 10 rounders that come with the guns.
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  #99  
Old 09-30-2019, 11:15 PM
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Batman Batman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngnrnlo View Post
How about a decent glocktoberfest this year. No gimmicks like hats or bags.

May be a glock with no magazine at a serious discount? $439 for the 17, 19, 26, 34?

I think everyone here already got their 17 round magazines on freedom week, and can do without the 10 rounders that come with the guns.
Three issues I can see;
1. Glock has MAP pricing; minimum advertised price. They can't advertise it below a certain dollar amount.
2. Many manufacturers don't allow retailers to remove items from packaging, such as magazines. This is to avoid bait-and-switch by showing one price, but then "Oh, you wanted the magazines for the Glock at $430 too? OK, but they're $50 each, and you have to buy them to get the Glock at $430."
3. To pass the firearms safety test, the gun has to have at least one magazine. If the buyer has one, great, but otherwise....
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  #100  
Old 10-01-2019, 6:44 AM
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Rakso Rakso is offline
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Open a store in the Coachella valley area.
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  #101  
Old 10-03-2019, 2:17 PM
pacrat pacrat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lunarHonour View Post
Wow that is some serious hostility in the last few posts. I haven't been on the forum in a bit, just logged in and noticed Turners had a vendor sub-forum now. Just wanted to say that I respect a businesses freedom to have their own policies in regards to how they run their business (as long as it is lawful).

lunarHonour,

If you had been around to read about the Turner's "policies" that are not lawful.
You would realize that the "serious hostility" is well deserved. And is customers voicing disapproval of policies that fall outside the law.

Turner's policies regarding,

LOCKS,.....
AMMO PPTS,.....
REFUSAL TO DELIVER ON "UNDETERMINED DOJ STATUS".

All fall outside the law. To the detriment of customers 2A rights. And even though we, the outspoken customers. Have repeatedly quoted the actual laws that govern those "extra legal" policies. The facts related to these laws and the discrepencies in Turner's policies, which are in conflict with those laws, have fallen on deaf ears.
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  #102  
Old 10-19-2019, 10:21 PM
BAGunner BAGunner is offline
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@ThatOneTurnersGuy

For the non-featureless AR-style firearms, what mag lock device is Turner's using? Specifically I'm referring to the Lewis Machine and Tool MWS MLOK™ .308 Win 16" Barrel. I'm wondering if there is permanent alteration to the firearm that can't be undone once I moved to a free state. Is it possible to install the FC-HOOK instead of the Juggernaught kit I'm suspecting?
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