Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > CONCEALED CARRY/LICENSE TO CARRY > Concealed Carry Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-12-2015, 10:33 AM
msternin msternin is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 854
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Default DOJ FD 4501/BOF 4501, The Real CCW/LTC?

For those of you who have been issued a CCW from a California IA, apart from any department specific card (laminated or not), are you also being given a copy of the DOJ FD 4501 or BOF 4501 (same form different revision dates)?

I was unaware, until today, but after a 30 minute phone call with a Cal DOJ Deputy Attorney General (they called me) that the FD 4501 is the actual uniform state-wide CCW/LTC that must be in a licensees possession when carrying.

All this time, had had been wrongly assuming IA's could devise their own license scheme, as long as it contained that which was required by law, as your actual CCW/LTC.

What's been your experience? I'm curious.

For those who are interested or curious, I uploaded an image that is the result of a PRA.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg fd4501.jpg (79.6 KB, 305 views)

Last edited by msternin; 03-12-2015 at 4:13 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-12-2015, 10:36 AM
ez2b's Avatar
ez2b ez2b is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: modesto
Posts: 753
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Yes I received a 4501 with my CCW I got a laminate hard copy of my picture ID and a 4501 forum also to carry
__________________
EZ
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-12-2015, 10:50 AM
caliberetta's Avatar
caliberetta caliberetta is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Earth
Posts: 2,441
iTrader: 107 / 100%
Default

Thanks - I'm in OC, I don't have that document, and it's the first I ever heard of it.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-12-2015, 10:59 AM
Trout_fear_me's Avatar
Trout_fear_me Trout_fear_me is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Behind the Orange Curtain
Posts: 1,001
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

+1 for OC CCW permit holder who only received a permit, and not a 4501. All of my friends who were issued permits in OC have not received a 4501 so I suspect it's not mandatory.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-12-2015, 11:01 AM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Concord
Posts: 38,809
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Blog Entries: 6
Default

Right. The 'rice paper' is THE license. 'Hard cards' make more sense, but until DOJ mandates those, in some places they might not be accepted.

PC 26175 -
Quote:
26175. (a) (1) Applications for licenses, applications for
amendments to licenses, amendments to licenses, and licenses under
this article shall be uniform throughout the state, upon forms to be
prescribed by the Attorney General.
__________________
No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.
- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


Gregg Easterbrook’s “Law of Doomsaying”: Predict catastrophe no later than ten years hence but no sooner than five years away — soon enough to terrify people but distant enough that they will not remember that you were wrong.


Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-12-2015, 11:08 AM
Trout_fear_me's Avatar
Trout_fear_me Trout_fear_me is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Behind the Orange Curtain
Posts: 1,001
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Right. The 'rice paper' is THE license. 'Hard cards' make more sense, but until DOJ mandates those, in some places they might not be accepted.

PC 26175 -
Gotcha. That being said, I can't imagine that a county can say that an OC issued permit is not valid. Especially since that's all we've been issued.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-12-2015, 12:05 PM
ez2b's Avatar
ez2b ez2b is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: modesto
Posts: 753
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I was told flat out the 4501 is your permit the other one is not.
just an extra ID.
The 4501 has your thumb print on it
__________________
EZ
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-12-2015, 12:08 PM
Trout_fear_me's Avatar
Trout_fear_me Trout_fear_me is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Behind the Orange Curtain
Posts: 1,001
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ez2b View Post
I was told flat out the 4501 is your permit the other one is not.
just an extra ID.
The 4501 has your thumb print on it
In OC the back of your permit has your thumb print.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-12-2015, 12:32 PM
QuarterBoreGunner's Avatar
QuarterBoreGunner QuarterBoreGunner is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: West Oakland
Posts: 9,283
iTrader: 92 / 100%
Default

I wish my IA would give out hard cards; the rice paper 4501 is all I've ever been given and y'all better believe that thing will self destruct in a wallet.
__________________
/Chris

I have a perfect Burning Man attendance record: zero.

You do know there are more guns in the country than there are in the city.
Everyone and their mums is packin' round here!
Like who?
Farmers.
Who else?
Farmers' mums.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-12-2015, 12:41 PM
msternin msternin is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 854
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trout_fear_me View Post
Gotcha. That being said, I can't imagine that a county can say that an OC issued permit is not valid. Especially since that's all we've been issued.
According to the Cal DAG, who referenced the same penal code as did the Librarian, the "rice paper" FD 4501 is your actual CCW that any licensee must be in possession of when carrying. That said, it's unlikely you'd get hemmed up within or outside of your IAs jurisdiction, but that's not to say an overly aggressive LEO couldn't try and hem you up for failing to be in possession of your standardized/uniform state-wide CCW form.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-12-2015, 12:43 PM
msternin msternin is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 854
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trout_fear_me View Post
In OC the back of your permit has your thumb print.
Doesn't matter, the FD 4501 is your permit. Anything else is extra as the DOJ, at this time, can not mandate IAs to include such things such as pictures according to the Cal DAG I spoke with. She noted some IAs are not as financially well off than others that may have fancy plastic card printers with enhanced capabilities.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-12-2015, 12:45 PM
msternin msternin is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 854
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuarterBoreGunner View Post
I wish my IA would give out hard cards; the rice paper 4501 is all I've ever been given and y'all better believe that thing will self destruct in a wallet.
PC 26175 allows the "rice paper" to be laminated. Based on it size, that may be an awkward fit in your wallet or pocket.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-12-2015, 12:50 PM
msternin msternin is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 854
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trout_fear_me View Post
Gotcha. That being said, I can't imagine that a county can say that an OC issued permit is not valid. Especially since that's all we've been issued.

It's possible the individuals in OC are not familiar with the providing a copy to you. After all there claim is likely to be that's how they were trained and their internal SOP may make no mention of the FD 4501.

That said and in keeping with agencies doing mostly what they choose to, according to the Cal DAG I spoke with, they do not receive much denial information from many of IAs in spite of the fact that PC 26225 requires the IA to submit that info to Cal DOJ. While not the administrative flaw of the century, it further goes to demonstrate that IAs selectively pick and choose what to do even though standing law states otherwise.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-12-2015, 12:51 PM
msternin msternin is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 854
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Right. The 'rice paper' is THE license. 'Hard cards' make more sense, but until DOJ mandates those, in some places they might not be accepted.

PC 26175 -
Thanks. I'd hadn't heard to it referred to as "rice paper", but again, until today I didn't known that form existed until the Cal DAG informed me.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-12-2015, 1:32 PM
postal postal is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Riverside
Posts: 4,567
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Riverside only has a 'hard card' as well. With a thumb print.

I never received rice, and I just dont care.

Go ahead and try and hook me up for not having 'the right paper'. Why dont you call the phone number printed on the license, give them the license number, and my name... and have my issuing agency TELL YOU "yup- it's a real license."

Who cares?

OC has a phone number printed on the license too- These phone numbers probably go straight to dispatch or a watch supervisor- some desk where there is ALWAYS someone 24 hours a day, and can verify the license.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-12-2015, 1:32 PM
mike_in_ca's Avatar
mike_in_ca mike_in_ca is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 259
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

I had this conversation with Melissa when I picked up the "new" credit card style. I previously had the rice paper FD 4501. She showed me the completed FD 4501 form in my file with all the same information as my issued card.

Said as long as the issuing agency has a copy of the 4501 form they can issue their own card as long as it contains all the same information.

Don't take my word for it.... Feel free to contact OCSD And ask.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-12-2015, 1:50 PM
Decoligny's Avatar
Decoligny Decoligny is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newcastle, OK
Posts: 10,616
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by msternin View Post
PC 26175 allows the "rice paper" to be laminated. Based on it size, that may be an awkward fit in your wallet or pocket.
Unless you have additional firearms listed on the back, or restrictions listed on the back, you can trim down the rice paper and fold it in half before laminating it. Doing this, mine just barely fits in my wallet, but it does fit.

If you have to access the back, you can laminate it, then cut three sides off of the plastic. The plastic that has heat bonded to the paper will protect it, but you will be able to open it to see the back side.
__________________

If you haven't seen it with your own eyes,
or heard it with your own ears,
don't make it up with your small mind,
or spread it with your big mouth.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-12-2015, 2:15 PM
msternin msternin is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 854
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Decoligny View Post
Unless you have additional firearms listed on the back, or restrictions listed on the back, you can trim down the rice paper and fold it in half before laminating it. Doing this, mine just barely fits in my wallet, but it does fit.

If you have to access the back, you can laminate it, then cut three sides off of the plastic. The plastic that has heat bonded to the paper will protect it, but you will be able to open it to see the back side.
Cool. If I ever get to that point I will certainly do that.

As for now, I'm knee deep in the application process where the IA seems only to issue to "Friends" per the results of my PRA with them and the Cal DOJ. Although the number of applicants to this particular IA are low, the circumstantial evidence that I have obtained and dots that have been connected point towards abuse of power issues. -Anyway, a rant for a different thread. ;-)
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-12-2015, 2:50 PM
QuarterBoreGunner's Avatar
QuarterBoreGunner QuarterBoreGunner is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: West Oakland
Posts: 9,283
iTrader: 92 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by msternin View Post
PC 26175 allows the "rice paper" to be laminated. Based on it size, that may be an awkward fit in your wallet or pocket.
And that's what I've been doing; though I've had to trim it a wee bit to fit.
__________________
/Chris

I have a perfect Burning Man attendance record: zero.

You do know there are more guns in the country than there are in the city.
Everyone and their mums is packin' round here!
Like who?
Farmers.
Who else?
Farmers' mums.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-12-2015, 2:53 PM
LBDamned's Avatar
LBDamned LBDamned is offline
Made in the USA
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Free in AZ!!! yes, it's worth the Pain to make it happen!
Posts: 10,962
iTrader: 51 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by postal View Post
Riverside only has a 'hard card' as well. With a thumb print.

I never received rice, and I just dont care.

Go ahead and try and hook me up for not having 'the right paper'. Why dont you call the phone number printed on the license, give them the license number, and my name... and have my issuing agency TELL YOU "yup- it's a real license."

Who cares?

OC has a phone number printed on the license too- These phone numbers probably go straight to dispatch or a watch supervisor- some desk where there is ALWAYS someone 24 hours a day, and can verify the license.
no phone number on my OC permit (hard card)... has thumb print though... interestingly, the signature doesn't look at all like mine (even on the crappy digi screen) - I've always thought they may have superimposed someone else my mistake
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-12-2015, 3:01 PM
postal postal is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Riverside
Posts: 4,567
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LBDamned View Post
no phone number on my OC permit (hard card)... has thumb print though... interestingly, the signature doesn't look at all like mine (even on the crappy digi screen) - I've always thought they may have superimposed someone else my mistake
HUH!!!!!! Been making some changes to them over time I guess...

I've only seen one OC card- it's nearly identical to mine. Different colors, different size font, but the same layout- same info. The card I saw, had a phone number on it- like mine does. It was relatively recent issue too- I forgot- maybe around July or so.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-12-2015, 3:02 PM
postal postal is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Riverside
Posts: 4,567
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Decoligny View Post
Unless you have additional firearms listed on the back, or restrictions listed on the back, you can trim down the rice paper and fold it in half before laminating it. Doing this, mine just barely fits in my wallet, but it does fit.

If you have to access the back, you can laminate it, then cut three sides off of the plastic. The plastic that has heat bonded to the paper will protect it, but you will be able to open it to see the back side.
I heard of people laminating the full card and fold the entire thing in half after laminating-
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-12-2015, 3:19 PM
Citadelgrad87's Avatar
Citadelgrad87 Citadelgrad87 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 15,084
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LBDamned View Post
no phone number on my OC permit (hard card)... has thumb print though... interestingly, the signature doesn't look at all like mine (even on the crappy digi screen) - I've always thought they may have superimposed someone else my mistake
Quote:
Originally Posted by postal View Post
HUH!!!!!! Been making some changes to them over time I guess...

I've only seen one OC card- it's nearly identical to mine. Different colors, different size font, but the same layout- same info. The card I saw, had a phone number on it- like mine does. It was relatively recent issue too- I forgot- maybe around July or so.
Mine was issued in February, there is no phone number on my permit.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by repubconserv View Post
Print it out and frame it for all I care
Quote:
Originally Posted by el chivo View Post
I don't need to think at all..
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjsig View Post
You are talking to someone who already won this lame conversation, not a brick a wall. Too bad you don't realize it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterfern View Post
Didn't realize. I try not to be political.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-12-2015, 3:26 PM
EMR's Avatar
EMR EMR is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: OC
Posts: 975
iTrader: 49 / 100%
Default

Mine was issued two weeks ago. Also no phone number.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-12-2015, 3:50 PM
NorCalRT NorCalRT is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 961
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by postal View Post
I heard of people laminating the full card and fold the entire thing in half after laminating-
Sac folded mine in half, laminated it and then gave it to me. Fits in my wallet pretty good.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-12-2015, 4:00 PM
Arrieta578 Arrieta578 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 438
iTrader: 3 / 80%
Default

So what is the difference between the "FD 4501" and the "BOF 4501"?

They look identical.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-12-2015, 4:10 PM
Arrieta578 Arrieta578 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 438
iTrader: 3 / 80%
Default

I am going to try and answer my own question:

The FD 4501 (10/99) I believe is the old "Firearms Document" 4501 Revised in Oct, 1999.

The BOF 4501 (11/08) I believe is the new "Bureau of Firearms" document 4501 revised in November of 2008

Addendum: Either way that piece of rice paper is a PIA to put into a wallet. You'd a thought with the amount of money it costs to get one of these things they could have made a permit that looks like a real ID card as opposed to a high school detention slip.

Last edited by Arrieta578; 03-12-2015 at 4:13 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-12-2015, 4:10 PM
msternin msternin is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 854
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrieta578 View Post
So what is the difference between the "FD 4501" and the "BOF 4501"?

They look identical.
Probably nothing. Could just be a form name update. I was told FD = Firearms Division whereas BOF = Bureau of Firearms, which is the newer term.

The IA in my jurisdiction probably has tons of the old forms since they only issue to "friends" of the chief and reserve officers.

UPDATE: I just looked at the revision date of the form Glendora uses and it's October 1999.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-12-2015, 4:15 PM
msternin msternin is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 854
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrieta578 View Post

Addendum: Either way that piece of rice paper is a PIA to put into a wallet. You'd a thought with the amount of money it costs to get one of these things they could have made a permit that looks like a real ID card as opposed to a high school detention slip.
Perhaps if the State ever took over the LTC process, the license itself would be more akin to a driver license in make up.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-12-2015, 4:17 PM
ke6guj's Avatar
ke6guj ke6guj is offline
Moderator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 909
Posts: 23,761
iTrader: 42 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrieta578 View Post
So what is the difference between the "FD 4501" and the "BOF 4501"?

They look identical.
the firearms dept. at CADOJ used to be the "firearms division" (FD) but they were downsized to the "bureau of firearms" (BOF). so, you have a new naming schema for the forms to recognize the new dept name.
__________________
Jack



Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA?

No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 03-12-2015, 4:43 PM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Concord
Posts: 38,809
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Blog Entries: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by msternin View Post
Perhaps if the State ever took over the LTC process, the license itself would be more akin to a driver license in make up.
Or an endorsement to a CA DL or ID - why carry two cards?
__________________
No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.
- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


Gregg Easterbrook’s “Law of Doomsaying”: Predict catastrophe no later than ten years hence but no sooner than five years away — soon enough to terrify people but distant enough that they will not remember that you were wrong.


Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 03-12-2015, 4:51 PM
msternin msternin is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 854
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Or an endorsement to a CA DL or ID - why carry two cards?


How great would that be?
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 03-12-2015, 4:55 PM
mej16489 mej16489 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,321
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by msternin View Post
According to the Cal DAG, who referenced the same penal code as did the Librarian, the "rice paper" FD 4501 is your actual CCW that any licensee must be in possession of when carrying. That said, it's unlikely you'd get hemmed up within or outside of your IAs jurisdiction, but that's not to say an overly aggressive LEO couldn't try and hem you up for failing to be in possession of your standardized/uniform state-wide CCW form.
There actually isn't any law which says one must be in possession of the license while carrying....
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 03-12-2015, 5:12 PM
cdtx2001's Avatar
cdtx2001 cdtx2001 is offline
Hooligan
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Over Here
Posts: 6,415
iTrader: 71 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by msternin View Post
Perhaps if the State ever took over the LTC process, the license itself would be more akin to a driver license in make up.
If Kamala had her way, the permit would be the size of the space shuttle and made of irn. You'd have to chain it around your neck and you can't leave home without it.

Back on topic, is OC and Riverside issuing nonstandard, non-state approved CCW permits?
__________________
Custom made Tail Gunner Trailer Hitch for sale.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...php?p=17820185

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side kid" -Han Solo

"A dull knife is as useless as the man who would dare carry it"
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 03-12-2015, 5:31 PM
msternin msternin is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 854
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mej16489 View Post
There actually isn't any law which says one must be in possession of the license while carrying....
Just relaying what I was told by DOJ. Wouldn't be the first time the Government was wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 03-12-2015, 5:38 PM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Concord
Posts: 38,809
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Blog Entries: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by msternin View Post
Just relaying what I was told by DOJ. Wouldn't be the first time the Government was wrong.
It is odd, but that's accurate.

OTOH, why would LEO believe you had CCW if you did not carry it? One of those 'duh!' moments, I think.
__________________
No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.
- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.


Gregg Easterbrook’s “Law of Doomsaying”: Predict catastrophe no later than ten years hence but no sooner than five years away — soon enough to terrify people but distant enough that they will not remember that you were wrong.


Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 03-12-2015, 5:50 PM
msternin msternin is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 854
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
It is odd, but that's accurate.

OTOH, why would LEO believe you had CCW if you did not carry it? One of those 'duh!' moments, I think.
To quote you "Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs", I don't believe that LEOs are under any obligation to verify or validate individual assertions of being a licensee if not in possession while carrying. If they want to hem you up under those circumstance they will. Not to mention it seems to be a common condition of carry from most IA policies that I've read.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 03-12-2015, 6:19 PM
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 7,018
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mej16489 View Post
There actually isn't any law which says one must be in possession of the license while carrying....
Quote:
Originally Posted by msternin View Post
Just relaying what I was told by DOJ. Wouldn't be the first time the Government was wrong.
If you do not carry your license, how will you comply with the restrictions placed on the license during application? http://www.sacsheriff.com/Pages/Orga...cw-doj-app.pdf

Section 4, License Conditions and Restrictions (in pertinent part):
Quote:
While exercising the privileges granted to the licensee under the terms of this license, the licensee shall not, when carrying a concealed weapon:
• Refuse to show the license or surrender the concealed weapon to any peace officer upon demand.
• Carry a concealed weapon not listed on the permit.
• Carry a concealed weapon at times or circumstances other than those specified in the permit.

Any violation of these restrictions or conditions may invalidate the CCW license and may void any further use of the license until reinstated by the licensing authority. Any arrest for a felony or serious misdemeanor, including driving under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs, is cause for invalidating the license.
If you cannot show you are licensed, that the guns you are carrying are on your license or your license isn't otherwise restricted, one could anticipate a significant deviation from your desired course of life.

Best.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 03-12-2015, 6:29 PM
msternin msternin is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 854
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
If you do not carry your license, how will you comply with the restrictions placed on the license during application? http://www.sacsheriff.com/Pages/Orga...cw-doj-app.pdf

Section 4, License Conditions and Restrictions (in pertinent part):

If you cannot show you are licensed, that the guns you are carrying are on your license or your license isn't otherwise restricted, one could anticipate a significant deviation from your desired course of life.

Best.
Most Indubitably!
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 03-12-2015, 6:40 PM
Daydrmr999 Daydrmr999 is offline
Senior Member
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ontario
Posts: 555
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Fyi, San Bernardino county also does not issue the rice paper, just the hard card.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 1:31 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.