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  #41  
Old 06-21-2019, 8:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarhead View Post
There’s no cure for knuckleheads
It's a membership based range... there is, indeed, a cure for knuckleheads.

There is a multi-year-long waiting list to take the knuckleheads' places.
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  #42  
Old 06-22-2019, 8:10 PM
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Originally Posted by BigFatGuy View Post
It's a membership based range... there is, indeed, a cure for knuckleheads.

There is a multi-year-long waiting list to take the knuckleheads' places.
Limited Knuckleheads Mainly the Newbies most at the Range know their stuff but every once in awhile you see someone who is lost, the Range Masters usually take them aside for a Lil Schooling.
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  #43  
Old 06-25-2019, 9:18 PM
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Please keep bumping this thread with comments or thoughts

Tomorrow is the day for members. Please vote “NO” on this ban. If you cannot attend voice your opinion thru the website

Not sure if it’s looked at for voting but there is a comment section thru “contact us “

This should only be used by members.

https://wegc.org/forum2/index.php?action=contact
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  #44  
Old 06-25-2019, 9:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jmpgnr24k View Post
Please keep bumping this thread with comments or thoughts

Tomorrow is the day for members. Please vote “NO” on this ban. If you cannot attend voice your opinion thru the website

Not sure if it’s looked at for voting but there is a comment section thru “contact us “

This should only be used by members.

https://wegc.org/forum2/index.php?action=contact
I was the first one to comment on the wegc site. Where is this crap coming from? I hope to get to the meeting tomorrow but i dont know if work/traffic will allow.
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Of course they are in free territory where they can pick up ammunition at the local 5 and dime without going through a criminal background check. All we get is legalized pot.
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  #45  
Old 06-25-2019, 9:32 PM
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I was the first one to comment on the wegc site. Where is this crap coming from? I hope to get to the meeting tomorrow but i dont know if work/traffic will allow.
Not sure. It’s endorsed by Terry, the treasurer for the club but I don’t why. He’s been a member forever and it a pretty cool guy. There is also a phone number to call and ask how to voice your opinion if you can’t attend.
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  #46  
Old 06-26-2019, 1:46 AM
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  #47  
Old 06-26-2019, 5:50 PM
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  #48  
Old 06-26-2019, 8:23 PM
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Okay, they passed a ban kind of...
They are going to allow steel ammo at the main range, if the range staff says the conditions are safe(no high wind or super dry conditions). Not allowed in the bays. So unless there are red flag conditions the C&R shoot should be OK.
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  #49  
Old 06-27-2019, 12:41 AM
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Attended the meeting. The points, idea and experiences brought up was great. The comments were calm. Only thing that made me wonder about the meeting was Steve, the one passing papers out to prove his point that all other shooting ranges banned them so we should too mentality. He says he's the one that brought this issue up. This seems personal to him for some reason. Not sure why or for what purpose. When another member shared their experience regarding the copper bullets having higher chance of fire and he himself witness fire started with standard lead copper bullets at the bay, Steve was fired up for no reason lashing back. Like any others comments some how were personal attacks. Thus this topic to ban is personal for some reason. Feels like road rage driver face red screaming. Not sure if he's always like this?

Anyways im glad it's sorted out that it's not a total ban but semi ban based on conditions like high temps or high winds and at range officer discretion. They will put up 3x3 signs to let shooters know the condition if it's okay to shoot steel core or not.



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  #50  
Old 06-27-2019, 7:07 AM
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Is there a liability issue at these ranges these days if a fire is caused by shooting? Maybe a fear of Forest Service, CalFire or San Berdoo County Fire retribution? All the fires last year in CA were big time national news..

Last edited by Dan_Eastvale; 06-27-2019 at 7:10 AM..
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  #51  
Old 06-27-2019, 9:48 AM
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Originally Posted by kel-tec-innovations View Post
Attended the meeting. The points, idea and experiences brought up was great. The comments were calm. Only thing that made me wonder about the meeting was Steve, the one passing papers out to prove his point that all other shooting ranges banned them so we should too mentality. He says he's the one that brought this issue up. This seems personal to him for some reason. Not sure why or for what purpose. When another member shared their experience regarding the copper bullets having higher chance of fire and he himself witness fire started with standard lead copper bullets at the bay, Steve was fired up for no reason lashing back. Like any others comments some how were personal attacks. Thus this topic to ban is personal for some reason. Feels like road rage driver face red screaming. Not sure if he's always like this?
Yea, that's him. He has an elitist mentality that because he's a full member, this is HIS range, and he doesn't like C&R rifles, thinks it makes the range look poor/trashy and he wants to only see expensive rifles there, so he'll do whatever he can to ban them from the range. He has no actual facts or data, and he pulled the same stunt last time as well. He just wants to force the monthly shoot off of HIS range, that's all this is.

This is also the same ****head that made NRA membership a requirement for limited members as well, solely because he's one of those NRA cocksuckers that thinks they can do no wrong and are more holy than God. I cannot stand him, and I'm not the only one.
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I think Claire Wolf said it best as "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
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Seriously??
Have you looked around?
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  #52  
Old 06-27-2019, 10:41 AM
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I think having a temp restriction on steel core ammo given conditions are ripe for a potential spark is reasonable, but this "Steve" guy really does have an elitist streak about him. Definitely some personal measure. I bet if he had the power to ban everyone from entering the range other than himself, he would do so.
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  #53  
Old 06-27-2019, 11:02 AM
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I found it interesting that after the board meeting started members were not allowed to comment, except for Steve. All animals are equal, but, some animals are more equal than others.
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  #54  
Old 06-27-2019, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shda5582 View Post
Yea, that's him. He has an elitist mentality that because he's a full member, this is HIS range, and he doesn't like C&R rifles, thinks it makes the range look poor/trashy and he wants to only see expensive rifles there, so he'll do whatever he can to ban them from the range. He has no actual facts or data, and he pulled the same stunt last time as well. He just wants to force the monthly shoot off of HIS range, that's all this is.

This is also the same ****head that made NRA membership a requirement for limited members as well, solely because he's one of those NRA cocksuckers that thinks they can do no wrong and are more holy than God. I cannot stand him, and I'm not the only one.
Sounds like such a wonderful guy.
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  #55  
Old 06-27-2019, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by 81turbota View Post
Sounds like such a wonderful guy.
You used to know him as ronin2.
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I think Claire Wolf said it best as "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
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Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Seriously??
Have you looked around?
Nutjobs are the staple of CGN, at least in OT.
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Then again, Dick's never ceases to leave a bad taste in the mouth.
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  #56  
Old 06-27-2019, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by foesgth View Post
I found it interesting that after the board meeting started members were not allowed to comment, except for Steve. All animals are equal, but, some animals are more equal than others.
Why was that? Was a reason given?
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I think Claire Wolf said it best as "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
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Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Seriously??
Have you looked around?
Nutjobs are the staple of CGN, at least in OT.
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Then again, Dick's never ceases to leave a bad taste in the mouth.
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  #57  
Old 06-27-2019, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by shda5582 View Post
Why was that? Was a reason given?
It was a board meeting. That is the normal practice. The board takes member comment, then discusses and votes.
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  #58  
Old 06-27-2019, 12:51 PM
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It was a board meeting. That is the normal practice. The board takes member comment, then discusses and votes.
Right.

But why was no one else allowed to comment?
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Originally Posted by DRH View Post
I think Claire Wolf said it best as "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
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Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Seriously??
Have you looked around?
Nutjobs are the staple of CGN, at least in OT.
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Then again, Dick's never ceases to leave a bad taste in the mouth.
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  #59  
Old 06-27-2019, 2:25 PM
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Originally Posted by foesgth View Post
I found it interesting that after the board meeting started members were not allowed to comment, except for Steve. All animals are equal, but, some animals are more equal than others.
Great observation. During the member meeting, he was allowed to walk the floor handing out his propaganda and to directly confront other members who had the floor but opposed his views. During the Board meeting, he was allowed to comment freely without rebuke from the Sergeant At Arms or any other members of the Board.

I hate to say it, but the whole thing felt like the “fix was in”.

I was particularly incensed by the Treasurer’s dismissive comments like, “Well, we can always see how this goes in a year and maybe we can revisit it. It’s not like you can’t shoot in the meantime.” (This is a paraphrase).

Yeah, of course you feel that way. It’s not YOUR ammo that’s getting restricted!! It was right out of the anti-gunners playbook: ‘You still have 10-round mags, so why are you mad about us restricting your hi-caps?’ ‘You still have bolt guns to shoot, why are you mad about us restricting semiautomatic??’ Sounds reasonable to the guy who’s guns AREN’T getting taken away, haha!!

I will say: Hats off to the President for voting “No”. He’s a stand-up guy.
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  #60  
Old 06-27-2019, 3:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kel-tec-innovations View Post
... They will put up 3x3 signs to let shooters know the condition if it's okay to shoot steel core or not.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
Saw the term "core" used in WEGC website's announcement of the new policy. So, a definition of steel core includes steel jacketed ammo like Wolf, Red Army, Bear, Tula? Technically, don't these Russian ammo have lead cores and steel is present only in the jackets?
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  #61  
Old 06-27-2019, 3:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Esquire View Post
Saw the term "core" used in WEGC website's announcement of the new policy. So, a definition of steel core includes steel jacketed ammo like Wolf, Red Army, Bear, Tula? Technically, don't these Russian ammo have lead cores and steel is present only in the jackets?
Changing “projectile containing steel” to “steel core” was a change suggested by the President, as the first definition could be construed to mean steel shot.

So yes, steel jacket is ok...for now haha!!
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  #62  
Old 06-27-2019, 4:14 PM
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Here is the new rule...
Quote:
WEST END GUN CLUB POLICY ON THE USE OF STEEL CORE AMMUNITION
Approved on 6-26-2019
Steel core ammunition is only allowed to be fired from any gun, by anyone, on West End Gun
Club (WEGC) property under certain specified conditions as follows: Steel core ammunition
may not be shot at any WEGC approved match without specific board approval. Match
directors will change their match briefing to indicate this restriction. Steel core ammunition
may only be shot at the main range when considered safe by the Range Director or Range
Officer(s) on duty. Criteria used to determine when it is safe will be based on weather
conditions such as wind, Fire Danger Level as determined by the US Forest Service or Cal Fire,
moisture content in vegetation on WEGC property and any other factor that would make it
unsafe to shoot this type of ammunition. Fire season is generally May to November. The
Range Director and Range Officers are required to error on the side of safety in making their
decision. Range Officer and Match Directors will have the authority to check anyone’s
ammunition while on WEGC property for steel core ammunition, by use of a magnet or by
knowledge of known types of ammunition with steel core in the projectile.
Penalty for any member found to be shooting steel core ammunition, at any time or place on
WEGC property, that is not as designated by this policy, will be as follows: The member will be
required to appear before the WEGC Board of Directors and the board will follow the Policy and
Procedure Manual section, Conduct and Discipline, to determine the outcome for the violation.
The member under this section can lose their membership with the board following this
procedure. Non-members, who violate this policy, will be required to appear before the Board
of Directors and can be subject to expulsion from club property.
Two, three foot by three foot signs will be used to post on the main range if it is or is not safe to
shoot steel core ammunition. The signs will also state that the Main Range is the only
designated place to shoot this type of ammunition on WEGC property. One sign or the other
will be posted at all times and may only be changed by the Range Director or Range Officer on
duty. Anyone tampering with the signs will be subject to the same Conduct and Discipline
section of the Policy and Procedure Manual. Safe to shoot or not safe to shoot determination
will also be posted prominently on the first page of the club web site when notified by the
Range Director.
As you can see they say is will be checked with a magnet.
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  #63  
Old 06-27-2019, 4:43 PM
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I will say: Hats off to the President for voting “No”. He’s a stand-up guy.
What other board members voted no?
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  #64  
Old 06-27-2019, 4:46 PM
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What other board members voted no?

I’m afraid I don’t know their names...it was 7-3 in favor of the restrictions.
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  #65  
Old 06-27-2019, 5:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 81turbota View Post
Sounds like such a wonderful guy.
I’m a Full Member @ WEGC and a C&R Collector / Shooter but also a ****head when it comes the the NRA / CRPA, I believe anyone who enjoys firearms should be a Member of at least one but preferably both.

Signed: DH
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  #66  
Old 06-27-2019, 5:07 PM
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I thought Piru also had the same thing happen a while back.
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  #67  
Old 06-27-2019, 6:34 PM
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I will say: Hats off to the President for voting “No”. He’s a stand-up guy.
Because he saw the crap that Steve put through the last time he tried pulling the same stunt. Only it seems that this time he came prepared; a shame I couldn't make the meeting. I might not be a member, but I would have shut his **** down.
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Originally Posted by DRH View Post
I think Claire Wolf said it best as "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Seriously??
Have you looked around?
Nutjobs are the staple of CGN, at least in OT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Tree View Post
Then again, Dick's never ceases to leave a bad taste in the mouth.
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  #68  
Old 06-27-2019, 6:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Jarhead View Post
I’m a Full Member @ WEGC and a C&R Collector / Shooter but also a ****head when it comes the the NRA / CRPA, I believe anyone who enjoys firearms should be a Member of at least one but preferably both.

Signed: DH
Why? It's not like they do anything to help preserve our rights as it is.
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Originally Posted by DRH View Post
I think Claire Wolf said it best as "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Seriously??
Have you looked around?
Nutjobs are the staple of CGN, at least in OT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Tree View Post
Then again, Dick's never ceases to leave a bad taste in the mouth.
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  #69  
Old 06-27-2019, 7:34 PM
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Why? It's not like they do anything to help preserve our rights as it is.
That is the problem many see everything as a quick fix, you just can’t give up, throw in the towel, you can never stop fighting back. This State is in the condition it is because of too many quitters then the weak looking for direction and seeing all the quitters just rolled over or were easy pickings.

The numbers as just as important as the money, things are reaching a breaking point in Kali and politicians are survivors ......... otherwise they have to go to work. They study numbers, trends, make projections and adjust their lies accordingly.

The money helps the Legal cost of some pretty big cases being fought in Kali.
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Old 06-27-2019, 8:35 PM
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Originally Posted by joefrank64k View Post
Great observation. During the member meeting, he was allowed to walk the floor handing out his propaganda and to directly confront other members who had the floor but opposed his views. During the Board meeting, he was allowed to comment freely without rebuke from the Sergeant At Arms or any other members of the Board.

I hate to say it, but the whole thing felt like the “fix was in”.

I was particularly incensed by the Treasurer’s dismissive comments like, “Well, we can always see how this goes in a year and maybe we can revisit it. It’s not like you can’t shoot in the meantime.” (This is a paraphrase).

Yeah, of course you feel that way. It’s not YOUR ammo that’s getting restricted!! It was right out of the anti-gunners playbook: ‘You still have 10-round mags, so why are you mad about us restricting your hi-caps?’ ‘You still have bolt guns to shoot, why are you mad about us restricting semiautomatic??’ Sounds reasonable to the guy who’s guns AREN’T getting taken away, haha!!

I will say: Hats off to the President for voting “No”. He’s a stand-up guy.

Then why the hell can't they "study" the problem for a year without banning it and let us know how it goes.
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  #71  
Old 06-27-2019, 9:49 PM
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Originally Posted by shda5582 View Post
Yea, that's him. He has an elitist mentality that because he's a full member, this is HIS range, and he doesn't like C&R rifles, thinks it makes the range look poor/trashy and he wants to only see expensive rifles there, so he'll do whatever he can to ban them from the range. He has no actual facts or data, and he pulled the same stunt last time as well. He just wants to force the monthly shoot off of HIS range, that's all this is.

This is also the same ****head that made NRA membership a requirement for limited members as well, solely because he's one of those NRA cocksuckers that thinks they can do no wrong and are more holy than God. I cannot stand him, and I'm not the only one.
I don't know the fellow, but I'm not sure why he would have an "elitist mentality" simply because he's a full member. It's easy to become a member - has been for years. All you have to do is sign up. Sure, there's a waiting list, but there are also plenty of people who drop out. Most people I know who joined were on the waiting list for not more than a few months.

And I really don't think anyone is walking around looking at others' guns with the thought that they don't belong. C&R firearms, especially milsurps, have long ago shed their cache as being cheap guns fit only for sporterization. C&R collectors probably have some of the most interesting rifles on the firing line.

Regarding NRA membership, any member, limited or otherwise, who would refuse to join the NRA is part of the problem. This has all been hashed out before, but the NRA is the only organization that can accomplish anything of note when it comes to the 2nd amendment.

Honestly, I see this whole thing as being brought upon the calguns C&R group by themselves. It seems that every time I'd see a thread promoting the monthly shoot, there was always someone who would mention that it was okay to use ammunition with steel projectiles. Sometimes it's pays to keep some things under the radar.

Also, in case you're wondering. I'm not in support of the ban, I think it's silly and without merit.

I think it's great that there are C&R shoots at the range. But...I did see this coming.
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Old 06-28-2019, 10:50 AM
sass2924 sass2924 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prob View Post
It's easy to become a member - has been for years. All you have to do is sign up. Sure, there's a waiting list, but there are also plenty of people who drop out. Most people I know who joined were on the waiting list for not more than a few months.
Limited member is 2 or 3 months, full member is about a 2-3 year wait.
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