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  #41  
Old 09-11-2012, 10:03 AM
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I have had a great FoF training idea for a while, the ENTIRE day is a simulation. Once you are inside the "facility" an attack can come at any time in any way. The lunch area the rest area the coffee macine, the toilet.
The idea is never to get the students together and say" ok you two go in and clear the room"

Maybe the lights go out and a window breaks and it's on.
any planning and or staging in FoF turns it into a game.
It's called The Matrix

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  #42  
Old 09-11-2012, 10:06 AM
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Then I am stymied as to where you and actually disagree about any of this, except at the margins.
The difference is I do and you talk (thus far). I'm not done fine-tuning, adding, subtracting elements to my training regimen. However, compared to what it was in June 2010 it's leaps and bounds better and the results show it.
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  #43  
Old 09-11-2012, 10:15 AM
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I have had a great FoF training idea for a while, the ENTIRE day is a simulation. Once you are inside the "facility" an attack can come at any time in any way. The lunch area the rest area the coffee macine, the toilet.
That's actually brilliant. Believe it or not, I know of some SWAT units which have tried things like that. Part of the key is to have actual work assignments for things like cooking, cleaning, equipment maintenance, etc. ... so you just aren't "waiting for the attack".

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The idea is never to get the students together and say" ok you two go in and clear the room"
That would be a valid simulation for some people, others not so much.

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Originally Posted by The Virus View Post
Maybe the lights go out and a window breaks and it's on.
any planning and or staging in FoF turns it into a game.
I like how you are thinking. The better FoF exercises are those where it's not at all clear what is initially happening or if force is even required.
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  #44  
Old 09-11-2012, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by ZombieTactics View Post
This is why I can never completely write you off, man. You say insulting, trollish things from time-to-time, but then you go and say something really smart.

Yes, there are "tactical guys" who go way too slow and do stupid things. If I saw someone actually "moving in slow motion", I'd laugh my head off. Speed is definitely a tactic, so is movement, so is cover. Using them correctly is the key. I don't think you can learn that from a IDPA or USPSA competition though, because there isn't any real "feedback" to tell you that you "did it wrong" FoF works pretty well for that, as welts and marker hits are pretty unambiguous indicators ... much more reliable indicators of survival than time on a clock, IMHO.

In the land of infinite maybes, anything is possible. Sure enough ... rounds flying in the direction of your opponent might affect his ability to do the same in return. I suppose that's a form of "cover", but then again people soak up rounds and keep fighting with startling regularity. Killing him quickly while he kills you slower isn't a "win" in my book. BTW, How does that work if the "exercise" starts with a gun in his hand, and yours in a IWB holster under concealment? Gonna outdraw that? I'd like to see it. Maybe "fast and accurate" isn't the solution in that case?
If there is a bad guy who has you in his sights without you knowing you are already in a bad way. But let's say you spot a guy wielding a gun, you could still draw and get on target pretty darn fast (well I could anyway, in under 2 sec.)

But if we're on the street at highnoon in a showdown and I'm IWB carryingbandnthenother guy has his gun in his hand, he obviuosly has the advantage.

But in reality if I see a guy holding a gun, Im probably not gonna pull my piece and open up, realistically I would try to find cover and see what the F#%k is going down.
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  #45  
Old 09-11-2012, 10:17 AM
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Zombie tactics... While i do find your opinions interesting and usually pretty valid, i must say that you sir are a thread destroyer. You turn so many threads into these obnoxious tactical debates, while taking peoples quotes out of context... Maybe your signifigant other never lets you win an argument so u take it out on internet folks or something, who knows...

@OP cool vids looks fun.
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  #46  
Old 09-11-2012, 10:18 AM
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It's called The Matrix

I want one, but I want the "tactical" one.
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  #47  
Old 09-11-2012, 10:20 AM
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Lol, ZT - Destroyer of Threads!

Maybe a new signature ?
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  #48  
Old 09-11-2012, 10:31 AM
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Lol, ZT - Destroyer of Threads! ...
I need to record that with echo, and lightning/thunderbolts/'asplosions in the background, lol.

Seriously though ... I don't seek out threads to "destroy". I don't think I've ever commented in one of the various thread where someone posts a IDPA stage video or something fro instance ... not my thing.

Take the start of this thread though ... it was at least partly poking fun at people like me who train a lot, and don't (yet) shoot in competitions. I respond, and I am persistent, and that's about all.
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  #49  
Old 09-11-2012, 10:53 AM
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The difference is I do and you talk (thus far).
I honestly don't know how you can make that statement with a straight face. There's ample evidence that I "do", albeit not with the same frequency or variety that you do.

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Originally Posted by ramzar View Post
I'm not done fine-tuning, adding, subtracting elements to my training regimen. However, compared to what it was in June 2010 it's leaps and bounds better and the results show it.
I can say the same thing, depending upon how you measure results.
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  #50  
Old 09-11-2012, 10:58 AM
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In this debate, at one end you have a group saying that you can get everything you need out of shooting competition. At the other end you have a group saying that you can get nothing out of competition and you should only do formal training classes.

In this thread, compared to some of the earlier ones, no one has said that.

Rather, there seem more of consensus that training and shooting in competitions can both be of benefit.

The key is recognizing what the limitation are within each discipline, participating in each, and taking elements from both that apply towards your circumstance. Tools for the toolbox, as they say.

The big issue that that some that only do one or the other (training or competition) do not have an adequate grasp of the limitations of each.
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  #51  
Old 09-11-2012, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by USM0083 View Post
In this debate, at one end you have a group saying that you can get everything you need out of shooting competition. At the other end you have a group saying that you can get nothing out of competition and you should only do formal training classes.

In this thread, compared to some of the earlier ones, no one has said that.

The OP sure sounds like he has said he has no need for formal tactical training. But your right, somehwer in the middle is the correct answer. I thing ZT has been saying that, both teach a sifferent skill set. Both skill sets are usefull.
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  #52  
Old 09-11-2012, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ZombieTactics View Post

I honestly don't know how you can make that statement with a straight face. There's ample evidence that I "do", albeit not with the same frequency or variety that you do.
You're missing variety and competitions. For instance, prior to late Summer 2010 I had artificially limited myself to 4 tactical training outfits and no competitive shooting. Since then perhaps another 10 training outfits (open-minded ones who do not denigrate competitive shooting and actually incorporate practical shooting into their programs) and competitive shootings of all types.

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I can say the same thing, depending upon how you measure results.
You can measure progress in speed, accuracy, weapons handling and some measure of tactics by going out to the range (with a training partner) and running quantifiable and random courses of fire. A couple of good quantifiable ones are the IDPA Classifier and the 10-8 Pistol Test. Keeping logs are also important to measure progress.
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  #53  
Old 09-11-2012, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by USM0083 View Post
In this debate, at one end you have a group saying that you can get everything you need out of shooting competition.
I've read statements to this effect. They are becoming fewer, thankfully.

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Originally Posted by USM0083 View Post
At the other end you have a group saying that you can get nothing out of competition and you should only do formal training classes.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I honestly don't remember saying anything like that. If I did, I was wrong.

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Originally Posted by USM0083 View Post
In this thread, compared to some of the earlier ones, no one has said that.

Rather, there seem more of consensus that training and shooting in competitions can both be of benefit.
Well, we can hope.

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Originally Posted by USM0083 View Post
The key is recognizing what the limitation are within each discipline, participating in each, and taking elements from both that apply towards your circumstance. Tools for the toolbox, as they say.

The big issue that that some that only do one or the other (training or competition) do not have an adequate grasp of the limitations of each.
Here's the thing: one has to recognize the limitations of their own myopic perspective as much as they recognize that of others. This is difficult, because your perspective can act as a filter:
  • A guy doing nothing but competition sees the world only in terms of time and accuracy shooting paper targets. A guy with a lot self-defense training wades in to his end of the pool and looks slow and pathetic through his filter.
  • A guy doing a lot of FoF training see the world in terms of getting welted-up/marked-up or not. A competition guy wades into his end of the pool and looks really "fast, but dead".

If you can't - to some degree - see the above reality, you're forever doomed to pointless argument.
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  #54  
Old 09-11-2012, 12:08 PM
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We live in a world of personal training constraints: time, money and so forth. If all you can afford is competitive shooting then that's better than static range shooting and dry practice. Even dry practice is better than nothing. The key is frequency and purpose.
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  #55  
Old 09-11-2012, 1:03 PM
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It's called The Matrix
Nice! I've always wanted to learn proper cartwheel shooting on the move technique. That'll look awesome at my next IDPA match
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  #56  
Old 09-11-2012, 1:07 PM
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Nice! I've always wanted to learn proper cartwheel shooting on the move technique. That'll look awesome at my next IDPA match
You have to shoot the way they tell you in IDPA, but USPSA, cartwheel away, just don't break the 180
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  #57  
Old 09-11-2012, 1:08 PM
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Would you still make that suggestion above ram for shooters with little to no formal instruction other than his/her buddy who learned from that cop/swat/military guy/gal?
That without any doubt is the majority of those who own and shoot an handgun.
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Old 09-11-2012, 1:33 PM
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Fast and accurate. Shooting is shooting. You can only take so many classes and that means much less time on the trigger.

I am still waiting for an idea of something challenging to try from you guys. Give me a course description and I will set it up and video my result.
After taking a bunch of classes by former military personal and full time SWAT officers I would agree shooting is shooting. There isn't much more to learn after a couple of _GOOD_ classes. But I did the tactical tourist thing for a while... If you have never taken a self defense type course you probably would benefit from one or two GOOD ones.

After that I have started to do mostly competition for shooting and every year I will go attend a SOUTHNARC course to work on skill sets that every CCW should have PERIOD. These are skills that don't involve actually firing the gun but may lead up to it or lead to you not having to deploy it at all...\

P.S.

If you are doing request I'd like to see this http://pistol-training.com/drills/hackathorn-standards cold with scores. I believe that is a "tactical" industry standard at the moment.

Last edited by Kempfer; 09-11-2012 at 1:38 PM..
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  #59  
Old 09-11-2012, 1:38 PM
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Would you still make that suggestion above ram for shooters with little to no formal instruction other than his/her buddy who learned from that cop/swat/military guy/gal?
That without any doubt is the majority of those who own and shoot an handgun.
I've given up on those who buy a handgun, shoot 50 rounds or so and think now they can protect themselves. It is what it is. Not my problem.
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  #60  
Old 09-11-2012, 1:49 PM
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If you are doing request I'd like to see this http://pistol-training.com/drills/hackathorn-standards cold with scores. I believe that is a "tactical" industry standard at the moment.
The Hackathorn Standards (original edition) is the "gold" standard. A watered down version became the IDPA Classifier. Personally, I think they're both great. Only one person has gotten a perfect 300 score in the Hackathorn Standards (modified version): Kyle Defoor.

The Defoor Shooting Tests are pretty good too.
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  #61  
Old 09-11-2012, 2:19 PM
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Too many shooters forget where they came from, or how they got there.
No formal instruction in technique, or effort to understand what technique is for shooting a firearm you will struggle in most if not all activities you do with a firearm except formal training.
Formal training will always be the very best investment of time and money.
Competition can be a great measurement tool for many level of abilities. It will reward the shooter who has the most solid grasp of basic technique. Without that you may or will flounder.
If you could only develop your abilities through only one form and have it be the very best value than that would be mindset.
Mentally prepared is what will make the very most difference in developing skills needed to avoid or survive.
Developing that can be done anywhere. No limits. The only one being on a willingness to explore how far you can take it.
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  #62  
Old 09-11-2012, 2:44 PM
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Just a thought or two, from a combat or self-defense perspective:

A popular line of reasoning follows the pattern of:
  • Mindset
  • Tactics
  • Skills
  • Gear or Equipment
... with Mindset being at the top of desirable attributes, and Gear at the bottom. Each attribute is about twice as important as the one below it on the list.
  • Those new to guns often stress over the bottom of the list: guns, holsters, ammo, etc., not realizing that these are of minor importance compared to attaining Skills. They have no point of reference to inform them otherwise.
  • If you move on/up to Skills, stressing over Gear becomes less important. Superior Skill is recognized as being more important than superior Gear (assuming a base level of Gear of course)
  • Those attaining some level of Skill tend to stress less about Gear choices as they gain greater skill. They then stress about their skills, as they have no other point of reference.
  • If you move on/up to Tactics, stressing over Skills becomes less important. Tactics are recognized as trumping Skills. (assuming a base level of Skills of course)
  • Those attaining some level of Tactics tend to stress less about Skills. They then stress about Tactics, as they have no other point of reference.
  • If you move on/up to Mindset , stressing over Tactics becomes less important. Mindset is recognized as trumping Tactics. (assuming a base level of Tactics of course)
  • Those achieving Mindset tend to stress less about any of the other things.
The point at which most people reject this pattern is usually the level at which they are presently stuck. The guy still losing his mind trying to figure out the perfect carry-ammo choice, for instance, has not moved beyond Gear.
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Last edited by ZombieTactics; 09-11-2012 at 2:50 PM..
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  #63  
Old 09-11-2012, 3:09 PM
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I do agree that after a certain level of training with some top outfits the point of diminishing return is reached. Not to say you can't take something away from every class, but the cost and time could be used better IMO.
Now these classes can be fun and exciting and there's nothing wrong with going out and having a great time shooting with some other good people and doing things you normally couldn't do at a public .

Right now for me I get more out of a half day private than 3 days in a course with 15 other shooters. Much more personal feedback and diagnostics.

It's also true that your average gun owner knows just enough to be a danger to themselves and everyone around them.
I will often tell people "You wouldn't buy a parachute and go jump out of an airplane with no training, but people dont think twice about buying a gun and bullets and going shooting"


On a side note, while having dinner with Frank Proctor we were talking about training and competition. I asked him if you took two guys and one only took classes and the other only competed in action shooting (3 gun,USPSA, IDPA) all things being equal who would prevail in a shoot out. He said the competition guy and I agree.

This coming from a current Tier1 (yes an actual tier1) operator and instructor and competition shooter.
Marinate on that.

Last edited by The Virus; 09-11-2012 at 3:21 PM..
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Old 09-11-2012, 3:49 PM
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On a side note, while having dinner with Frank Proctor we were talking about training and competition. I asked him if you took two guys and one only took classes and the other only competed in action shooting (3 gun,USPSA, IDPA) all things being equal who would prevail in a shoot out. He said the competition guy and I agree.
I highly respect Frank Proctor and I'm taking an extensive 3-day pistol/carbine class with him in about a month.

That statement is incomplete. If it was out in an open space with no chance of cover or concealment and more like a draw ALA western style gunfight then I agree that the same individual with competitive shooting training will probably win. However, now put them in a high-rise building where you need to seek out your adversary and the draw is not as important but cover and concealment more so then perhaps tactical training wins out.
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Old 09-11-2012, 3:51 PM
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I do agree that after a certain level of training with some top outfits the point of diminishing return is reached. Not to say you can't take something away from every class, but the cost and time could be used better IMO.
Now these classes can be fun and exciting and there's nothing wrong with going out and having a great time shooting with some other good people and doing things you normally couldn't do at a public .

Right now for me I get more out of a half day private than 3 days in a course with 15 other shooters. Much more personal feedback and diagnostics.

It's also true that your average gun owner knows just enough to be a danger to themselves and everyone around them.
I will often tell people "You wouldn't buy a parachute and go jump out of an airplane with no training, but people dont think twice about buying a gun and bullets and going shooting"


On a side note, while having dinner with Frank Proctor we were talking about training and competition. I asked him if you took two guys and one only took classes and the other only competed in action shooting (3 gun,USPSA, IDPA) all things being equal who would prevail in a shoot out. He said the competition guy and I agree.

This coming from a current Tier1 (yes an actual tier1) operator and instructor and competition shooter.
Marinate on that.
Yes, but who would be most tactical? Because that clearly matters, lol.

Some how people cant wrap their mind around being faster and more accurate. They make excuses why that its bad tactics and I am sure its because they cant come any where near being a D or C class shooter with all the money they have spent.

Here is a good stage for some tactical guys. Double swinging targets. I landed 2 hits on each out of 4 shots fired. Why would this be helpful? Gee I dont know but if you can shoot moving targets like those I am sure you can hit other things that move as well. You would never see that at a tactical class because its likely too hard and people paid money so they need to walk away feeling good and not like more a newbie.
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  #66  
Old 09-11-2012, 3:55 PM
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...That statement is incomplete. If it was out in an open space with no chance of cover or concealment and more like a draw ALA western style gunfight then I agree that the same individual with competitive shooting training will probably win.
Absolutely. No contest.

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However, now put them in a high-rise building where you need to seek out your adversary and the draw is not as important but cover and concealment more so then perhaps tactical training wins out.
Probably not as clear cut, but I tend to agree with you.
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Old 09-11-2012, 3:59 PM
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I highly respect Frank Proctor and I'm taking an extensive 3-day pistol/carbine class with him in about a month.

That statement is incomplete. If it was out in an open space with no chance of cover or concealment and more like a draw ALA western style gunfight then I agree that the same individual with competitive shooting training will probably win. However, now put them in a high-rise building where you need to seek out your adversary and the draw is not as important but cover and concealment more so then perhaps tactical training wins out.
Ahh god, I give up!

You guys keep shooting and sucking but call it tactical to make up for it. We will keep blazing down targets faster then you will ever be able to do.
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Old 09-11-2012, 4:04 PM
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I highly respect Frank Proctor and I'm taking an extensive 3-day pistol/carbine class with him in about a month.

That statement is incomplete. If it was out in an open space with no chance of cover or concealment and more like a draw ALA western style gunfight then I agree that the same individual with competitive shooting training will probably win. However, now put them in a high-rise building where you need to seek out your adversary and the draw is not as important but cover and concealment more so then perhaps tactical training wins out.
I actually think the conversation started when we began talking about if a guy came in shooting and you had to get to there other side of the restaurant to protect some babies or something.
Frank said "sometimes you gotta move fast, sometimes you gotta shoot fast and sometimes you just gotta do both fast, like if I had to get over there in a hurry while shooting." then the discussion went on into the training only vs. competion only.

Of course its a general statement, but the spirit of the statement stands.
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Old 09-11-2012, 4:08 PM
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Just goes to show you ... opinions abound. My previous quote was from Paul Howe, for whatever that is worth to anyone.
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Old 09-11-2012, 4:19 PM
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Ahh god, I give up!

You guys keep shooting and sucking but call it tactical to make up for it. We will keep blazing down targets faster then you will ever be able to do.
Why don't you participate in an IDPA Classifier and tell us your score and then we'll judge. I run it in about 103 seconds (Expert in SSP) although I did get 96.90 (Master in SSP) but I consider myself a solid Expert training to be a consistent Master.
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Old 09-11-2012, 6:11 PM
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I have had a great FoF training idea for a while, the ENTIRE day is a simulation. Once you are inside the "facility" an attack can come at any time in any way. The lunch area the rest area the coffee macine, the toilet.
The idea is never to get the students together and say" ok you two go in and clear the room"

Maybe the lights go out and a window breaks and it's on.
any planning and or staging in FoF turns it into a game.
I agree, this is a good training method. Speed and Accuracy are nice skills to have as well. I believe you have a good balance if this is the way you train.

I think the OP has a different understanding of what a total package entails... because speed and accuracy are not all that are needed to defend ones life.
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Old 09-11-2012, 6:13 PM
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Why don't you participate in an IDPA Classifier and tell us your score and then we'll judge. I run it in about 103 seconds (Expert in SSP) although I did get 96.90 (Master in SSP) but I consider myself a solid Expert training to be a consistent Master.
Ram,,,I have seen you shoot.. I don't know how much you compete vs. train but you shoot and move much better than the guy in the videos...????..
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Old 09-11-2012, 7:44 PM
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Ahh god, I give up!

You guys keep shooting and sucking but call it tactical to make up for it. We will keep blazing down targets faster then you will ever be able to do.

I would not say to give up. There is just opinion out there that is different from your thinking. I have seen some of the videos of your shooting and it looks pretty solid. I don't think anyone has said that you don't shoot well.

I think it is good you mentioned wanting to get some training ideas to grow. You then basically said that there is nothing anyone has been able to offer you that would challenge you. In the real world everyday people do in fact have to clear their homes. If you can't do that properly being fast won't matter.

Shooting on a static range does not make one any less of a good shot than the person on the dynamic range. Shooting is shooting and that is why I practice both I just focus on different things when doing both.


Shooting on a range at a competition is great practice. But being able to see all targets and more importantly shoot/no shoot targets makes things a little more simple. There is no dealing with the threat as it presents itself. Going through a shoot house and dealing with each threat as it appears requires that split second to determine shoot don't shoot. No timer in play here. Make the wrong decision here and a innocent person pays the price. It won't matter how fast or accurate you are when the wrong person goes down.


I would guess the majority of the targets are shoot vs no shoot. Watching the course of fire over and over and shooting it finally probably makes it less likely to shoot the good guy. Again it is good trigger time practice. But as mentioned earlier actual trigger time is limited to a few minutes for the entire match and moving fast is what matters, and often shots are made in the open. While on the other hand another person may spend a hour of his day doing the things like making sure he is not exposed when taking his shot. He may focus on proper distance from a door to maintain distance and cover until it is determined if a shot is needed. The key is in the moment when it is determined a shot is needed it is delivered just as quick and accurate as any other shooter. The only difference is in the approach of how and when to take the shot.


I spent a hour this past weekend doing nothing but failure drills after a 250 round session on the range. I will say I saw in your last video you had a few failures with your 1911. You seemed to be able to get it clear pretty quick, but I did notice you had a brief moment where you looked at the gun with no movement to clear the malfunction. We all need constant training in all areas of shooting, and we all need to understand that there is always a better way of doing things or there would be no need to try to improve.

Remember moving fast is not shooting fast unless it is a target you are shooting on the move. If no target is engaged your just moving fast from target to target vs slower and more cautious. My actual trigger time/speed once I decide to take the shot is no different from cover or in the open while on the move.

If you want to challenge yourself go to one training course where a shoot house is utilized without knowing if it is friend or foe around the next corner. You will be critiqued every time you expose yourself, or every time you hug a corner to tight or open a door in the wrong manner. You will see a lot of thing come to light in these type of training sessions.

One other point. When someone decides to make you there next victim and they know what they are doing you will always be reacting to the attack and not a timer. Just like a person who decides they are going to put a knife in you, it will happen and you never see it coming. Same thing with a gun attack they often already have their gun out, which means they already have you in their sights or the gun is at least pointed in your direction. I don't care how fast a person thinks they are those are not good odds. Just to give you a idea the last class I was in we faced a target one played the victim gun in the holster, the other attacker gun in hand. The instructor yells gun and the victim draws to shoot. The average in the class had the attacker firing between 3-4 shots before the victim cleared the holster and fired the first shot. I think the pressure to get the gun out and fire got the best of the victims because the attacker aready had his gun out. Just a different twist if you want to try this at the range one day?
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Old 09-11-2012, 8:07 PM
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... Just to give you a idea the last class I was in we faced a target one played the victim gun in the holster, the other attacker gun in hand. The instructor yells gun and the victim draws to shoot. The average in the class had the attacker firing between 3-4 shots before the victim cleared the holster and fired the first shot. I think the pressure to get the gun out and fire got the best of the victims because the attacker aready had his gun out. Just a different twist if you want to try this at the range one day?
It's a great exercise, and a real mind opener. I attended a class where one particular person - who felt he was paired up with someone unfairly - insisted that he could probably outdraw a lot of people, just not the one he was paired up with. 20 or so people in the the class, and we went through the entire group one-by-one to prove to this guy that he couldn't even outdraw the noob who had never fired a gun before. It's almost an absolute impossibility to outdraw a gun already in someone's hand. There are variations of this, including "gun versions" of the Tueller drill ... I've never seen anyone succeed yet.
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:02 PM
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It's a great exercise, and a real mind opener. I attended a class where one particular person - who felt he was paired up with someone unfairly - insisted that he could probably outdraw a lot of people, just not the one he was paired up with. 20 or so people in the the class, and we went through the entire group one-by-one to prove to this guy that he couldn't even outdraw the noob who had never fired a gun before. It's almost an absolute impossibility to outdraw a gun already in someone's hand. There are variations of this, including "gun versions" of the Tueller drill ... I've never seen anyone succeed yet.
ZT,

I have been reading this thread over the last couple of days because of the entertainment value. Based on everything I have read, what background would you have in "tactics" that may make your "experience" something that would be more valuable than other courses offered? No offense, but looking at some of your videos you seem just to regurgitate information mall ninjas disseminate on the internet
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:27 PM
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Just a thought or two, from a combat or self-defense perspective:

A popular line of reasoning follows the pattern of:
  • Mindset
  • Tactics
  • Skills
  • Gear or Equipment
... with Mindset being at the top of desirable attributes, and Gear at the bottom. Each attribute is about twice as important as the one below it on the list.
  • Those new to guns often stress over the bottom of the list: guns, holsters, ammo, etc., not realizing that these are of minor importance compared to attaining Skills. They have no point of reference to inform them otherwise.
  • If you move on/up to Skills, stressing over Gear becomes less important. Superior Skill is recognized as being more important than superior Gear (assuming a base level of Gear of course)
  • Those attaining some level of Skill tend to stress less about Gear choices as they gain greater skill. They then stress about their skills, as they have no other point of reference.
  • If you move on/up to Tactics, stressing over Skills becomes less important. Tactics are recognized as trumping Skills. (assuming a base level of Skills of course)
  • Those attaining some level of Tactics tend to stress less about Skills. They then stress about Tactics, as they have no other point of reference.
  • If you move on/up to Mindset , stressing over Tactics becomes less important. Mindset is recognized as trumping Tactics. (assuming a base level of Tactics of course)
  • Those achieving Mindset tend to stress less about any of the other things.
The point at which most people reject this pattern is usually the level at which they are presently stuck. The guy still losing his mind trying to figure out the perfect carry-ammo choice, for instance, has not moved beyond Gear.
I totally agree. People need to understand that tactical training is entirely different that competition. Shooting is good, but understanding your surroundings and how to use them effectively is more important.
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:55 PM
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Is VampireTactics (first post) related to ZombieTactics? A fan? When will WerewolfTactics show up? Are they all Destroyers of Threads?
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Old 09-11-2012, 11:14 PM
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There can only be ONE Destroyer of Threads just like there is only one Conan the Destroyer.
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Old 09-12-2012, 5:56 AM
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Is VampireTactics (first post) related to ZombieTactics? A fan? When will WerewolfTactics show up? Are they all Destroyers of Threads?
I have no idea. I assure you it isn't anyone I know, unless someone is being coy.
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Old 09-12-2012, 7:25 AM
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I didn't watch the video. My general thoughts are that the more kinds of things you do especially if you get to move the better off you are. Just try to keep it realistic and don't get sucked into the gaming aspect as there are times when self defense differs.
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