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  #1  
Old 02-14-2012, 9:31 AM
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Default "Alot of People Teach All This Fast Shooting, I Teach Fast Hitting" -Paul Howe

I just got back from Texas attending Paul Howe's CSAT Tac Rifle course (2.11.12). I had a great time and since I'm still trying to get in my groove I'll give you a little teaser of what happened.

Even two Magpul Dynamics instructors showed up to the class. They were actually some of my bunkmates. They gave me some interesting background on the whole magpul scene.

A SWAT Doc with a surpressed AR.

My T1 cr@pped out

I have abunch of video I took on my Contour. Paul has given me permission to post them. Unfortunately downloading them on youtube takes forever. I just tried and it froze up my computer after 30 minutes and it was only 16% done. So I may or may not post them.

All I can say is spend the money and go see him and stay at the barracks. I'm not sure where I had more fun at the range or the bunkhouse.
Some great quotes from Paul:
"This is a 556. This is a rat gun. Hit him again."
"Know you're battlefield."
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Old 02-14-2012, 10:34 AM
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Could you give us the top 5 things you learned in class? How did taking this class effect how you will practice?
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:21 PM
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How many times did Paul say "basically"? ... great guy, a genuine hero and I am guessing a great class.
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:28 PM
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What happened to the T1 optic?
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Old 02-14-2012, 6:40 PM
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What happened to the T1 optic?
I have no idea how it happened but the front lens is dangling as you can see from the photo. I was shooting his 50 yard kneeling standard when the red dot disappeared. I taught it was the battery going dead. I looked at the optic to see the lens had popped out. I have only used the thing once before class, just to sight in my AR. Never abused, never neglected, never mistreated. Its odd. Paul said he never seen it before. Nor had the boys from Magpul. Strange. I'm still waiting for aresponse from Aimpoint.

In a way its a blessing it forced me to shoot irons and I'm alot better know with those irons than I would ever had been. My shooting partner for the weekend, offered his spare Aimpoint M3, which was more than genereous but I refused. I figured if this was real world, I'd have to ditch my optic and go irons. So thats what I did.
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Old 02-15-2012, 3:45 PM
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Hmmm... that's really odd. Is it possible that it's one of those Chinese airsoft copies?
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Old 02-15-2012, 3:49 PM
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share with us the interesting magpul stuff.
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Old 02-15-2012, 7:33 PM
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Hmmm... that's really odd. Is it possible that it's one of those Chinese airsoft copies?
Not likely unless Mark LaRue is selling counterfeits but I doubt it.

Last edited by Clee; 02-15-2012 at 7:44 PM..
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Old 02-15-2012, 7:35 PM
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share with us the interesting magpul stuff.
Lets just say there were some ethical problems from a certain individual. I'll leave it at that.
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Old 02-15-2012, 7:38 PM
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I finally got one video up. Since I'm computer retarded, it took something like 2.5 hours for that vid to load.
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  #11  
Old 02-16-2012, 7:35 AM
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Default CSAT AAR


If you don't know who ex-Delta Force operator Paul Howe is, I'd suggest you read Blackhawk Down by Mark Bowden or at this. He is a great American and a great guy. My interest in guns tends to be toward fine guns and hunting guns and not toward black guns even so I did purchase one a couple years ago. My lack of knowledge on such a gun made me want to seek professional training to help me feel more comfortable with the platform.

I chose to train with Paul over others because of his experience and his philosophy. Paul stresses accuracy over speed which I wholeheartedly agree. I suppose this class may turn some people off as it is not a "cool guy" class. Basically everything you learn in a Magpul video or any other “cool guy” video, unlearn it. There is no fancy maneuvers, no point shooting, no shooting on the move, no high speed tac reloads, no ninja rolls, or any silliness or anything remotely dangerous. There's not even alot of shooting compared to other classes. In total I believe I shot 500 or so rounds. I had brought 700 rounds of surplus green tip on stripper clips. At the end of the day 2 I had at least 6 or 7 boxes (each box holds 30) left that I gave to Paul since I couldn't travel with it due to Jet Blue's silly rule. They do not allow boxed ammo in the same case with the gun. Apparently they just want to charge you for an extra luggage.

Classes are assisted by instructor/students. These instructor/students arrived four days prior to our class. There Paul teaches them how to teach others using his methods. Each must pass his standards to move on to the 2 last days where they are assigned a student to assist him on each method. Our instructors were mostly Army reservists from Oklahoma but we also had a Texas sheriff, and a doctor. They were great. The Reservists were good ole boys who were some of the nicest guys ever. And they were a hoot as well. There is nothing funnier than a redneck making fun of another redneck for being too redneck. I had my own Jeff Foxworthy show at the barracks. The instructor/ student ratio was almost one to one. 22 students to 17 instructors. I shared my instructor with a great shot from Houston named Lee.

Paul lays down a foundation known as his standards, various shooting positions at various distances that must be met under a certain time. It is not easy. He says use his standards as an analogy to a gym program. Every time you go the gym, you don't just go in a start lifting, you have a list of workouts you do for the day. His standards are used much in the same way. After this course you can take it home and use it to practice all you have learned here.

On the first day my T1 red point optic failed on me, requiring me to shoot with my iron sights. Since I have poor vision, I knew I was going to have an even harder time now. Lee graciously offered me his spare Aimpoint CompM3. I originally accepted but later declined. I figured I better learn to shoot irons well, in case my optics ever failed in real life.

My shooting definitely improved by the end of training. I was easily engaging targets at up to 300 yards with irons. I would have never taught I could do that prior to coming class. Paul teaches finding your natural point of aim and bone supported holds to allow you to shoot more accurately while shooting faster.

The first day we learned the shooting system and all the standards. This is the day where most of all the shooting occurs. The following day we were split into two teams. One team would start with the "scrambler," which is a course where you run to each target and engage steel anywhere from 100-300 yards away using various shooting platforms. The course also includes some pistol shots as well. This was a hoot. The other team would start with tactical lessons from Paul. He taught how to approach a barricade and use it for cover. Coming out and owning the battlefield. After that he taught us precision hostage shooting. On his hostage targets his daughter is used as a model so don't miss. The next module was shooting shirts. This was to show us that in real life there are no references as there are in paper targets. Once that was completed we began shooting the 100-7 drill and then started the standards, recording our times to see where we needed to practice. One of the Magpul guys, Mike aced them all. I know, I was shooting right next to him. The class concludes with Paul giving a demonstration on how to properly clean an AR. He likes the gun lubed and wet.

The things I learned:
Why he uses a 100 yard zero and starting at the 7 yard line to give you a baseline zero.
Finding your natural point of aim.
Supporting the gun with bone and not muscle.
Ambi safeties blow. At least mine does. It causes you lift your trigger finger to accommodate the safety going into fire. In other words it slows you down.
Carburetor Cleaner works great to clean your gun and it’s a lot cheaper.
Keep the AR wet.
Texas has some of the nicest people I've ever met.

Given Paul's credentials, the $450 ($50 of that is for lodging at the barracks, otherwise its $400) is quite possibly the greatest deal in tactical training. Paul is approachable and will answer any question you ask him. He gives you an honest answer for why he chooses his methods and techniques and why he doesn't use others. He has no tough guy attitude or any false bravado like many other tactical trainers out there. I can tell he is comfortable in his own skin and doesn't need to prove that he is a bad ***. He knows it and people around him know it too.

I thought it was funny when he made a comment to his wife, who is very attractive by the way, that she knew he was on a diet yet she baked him cookies. Connie basically just rolled her eyes. I thought it was funny that a man who passed probably the most rigorous and demanding selection process in all the military and survived arguably the most deadly battle in modern warfare didn't have the strength to resist his wife's homemade cookies. I guess we all have our weaknesses.

Funny story. Ideally you should travel into Houston Airport and travel 2 hours north to CSAT. I have a friend stationed in Ft Hood so I flew into Austin to spend a night with his family. He lent me his truck for the weekend so I can drive 4 hour east to Nacogdoches. I had forgotten to pack my razor and was too cheap to buy a new one so I went unshaven for a couple days. When I got there and met all the reservists, each one saw the truck with a DoD sticker on it and kept asking me what I did. I guess they saw a guy with longish hair (at least by military standards) and unshaven they must have taught I was some contractor or SF guy. I let them know I was not, just a wussy (rhymes with wussy) civilian and the truck belonged to my buddy.

Since Paul was California boy from San Diego that “escaped” when he turned 18, we both reminisced about the good ole days when California was actually an awesome state. He talked about hunting in Santee and I talked about shooting with my pop in Irvine and how I managed to experience the tail end of the good ole days of CA before it turned into turdsville.

I hope to return to Nacogdoches to train with him again. I hope to take his home defense course next year.


Paul explains why you should hold at the low ready to a couple Houston PD.

The Reservists came in two vans and two LMVTs. They let me check it out and sit in the cab.

Each guy gets ready to shot the standards.

Paul explains how to clean the AR and how to seal it completely so if you ever get dusted by a helicopter, high winds, etc. the gun is still good to go.

Last edited by Clee; 02-16-2012 at 4:37 PM.. Reason: I spell like an idiot
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  #12  
Old 02-16-2012, 8:17 AM
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Great post! Thanks for sharing.
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  #13  
Old 02-16-2012, 8:19 AM
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Thanks for the informative AAR. Looking forward to taking some classes with Paul. For now I make do with his insightful books and training DVDs.
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Old 02-16-2012, 8:31 AM
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... Why he uses a 100 yard zero and starting at the 7 yard line to give you a baseline zero. ...
Which one? Paul uses the term somewhat fluidly. I recall reading an article where we detailed what he called a "100-yard zero", but it was actually POA/POI at about 25 meters, and 3-4 inches high at 100 yards. That's actually pretty close to a standard 300-yard Marine zero, but apparently Paul's eyes glaze over when anyone tries to explain that to him ... kind of an "ours go to 11" kind of thing, if you take my meaning.

Dude knows his stuff, I'm just curious.
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Last edited by ZombieTactics; 02-16-2012 at 8:36 AM..
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Old 02-16-2012, 8:51 AM
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Which one? Paul uses the term somewhat fluidly. I recall reading an article where we detailed what he called a "100-yard zero", but it was actually POA/POI at about 25 meters, and 3-4 inches high at 100 yards. That's actually pretty close to a standard 300-yard Marine zero, but apparently Paul's eyes glaze over when anyone tries to explain that to him ... kind of an "ours go to 11" kind of thing, if you take my meaning.

Dude knows his stuff, I'm just curious.
Are you sure that was Paul?

You should be dead on at 100. Using his CSAT targets, you start at the 7 yard line shoot at the pasties keeping your top of the front sight at the 6 oclock position (where the black and white meet). The goal is not to hit the black pastie it is to hit it 2 inches lower. So when you go back at 100 and shot you can finetune it from there.

Then you can shoot the other pastie with the tip of the red dot and fine tune that at 100.

I hope that makes sense.

Last edited by Clee; 02-16-2012 at 10:42 AM..
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Old 02-16-2012, 9:00 AM
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Just to let you guys know. We had 2 HK mags fail. One ACR fail and my T1 fail. Other than that from what I saw everyones gear worked. My LWRC M6A2 ran like a champ. Paul ran his PWS. Magpul guys ran a couple guns each, I recall two of them being BCM uppers and a magpul lower I believe.
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Old 02-16-2012, 9:07 AM
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So Magpul teaches cool guy ninja stuff okie dokie.
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Old 02-16-2012, 9:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Clee View Post
Just to let you guys know. We had 2 HK mags fail. One ACR fail and my T1 fail. Other than that from what I saw everyones gear worked. My LWRC M6A2 ran like a champ. Paul ran his PWS. Magpul guys ran a couple guns each, I recall two of them being BCM uppers and a magpul lower I believe.
Since the round count was low could you tell if the DI guns fared as well as the piston ones?

Also, please let us know about how Aimpoint treats your T1's return whether replace or repair and how long it'll take.
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Old 02-16-2012, 9:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Clee View Post
[IMG]Paul stresses accuracy over speed...
Excellent ARR Clee; thanks for sharing!

The above quote seems to be consistent with what other Delta instructors/teaching outfits teach. Not a high round; gun running type of class but centered around accuracy at distance. It's all about being accountable for each shot. As the saying goes: speed is good but accuracy is final but being quick and accurate is obviously better than slow but accurate.

Would be nice if Paul made it to SoCal for training.
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Last edited by HK35; 02-16-2012 at 9:23 AM..
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Old 02-16-2012, 9:23 AM
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You should be dead on at 100. Using his CSAT targets, you start at the 7 yard line shoot at the pasties keeping your top of the front sight at the 6 oclock position (where the black and white meet). The goal is not to hit the black pastie it is to hit it 2 inches lower. So when you go back at 100 and shot you can finetune it from there.

Then you can shoot the other pastie with the tip of the red dot and fine tune that at 100.

I hope that makes sense.
Larry Vickers, another former Delta guy, does something similar. He starts the zero process at 25 yards with a 5-shot group (ideally covered by a quarter or smaller) with the impact point being 2 inches below your point of aim. Then, you finalize your zero at the chosen 50, 100 (his preference) or 200 yards zero.
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Old 02-16-2012, 9:24 AM
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Since the round count was low could you tell if the DI guns fared as well as the piston ones?

Also, please let us know about how Aimpoint treats your T1's return whether replace or repair and how long it'll take.
i'm still waiting from a response from aimpoint. Sent an email I wanted there response in writing. If I don't hear from them today, Im calling them tomorrow.

DI vs. GP the debate continues. Honestly at this class there was no difference....Most of the shooting is done on the first day, and since Paul's cleaning shed is outside and it was freezing balls, I didn't clean my gun. I only lubed it up and shot it the next day. It ran fine. In fact I didn't see or hear anyone cleaning their guns after the first day. No malfuctions in my group the following day.
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Old 02-16-2012, 9:29 AM
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Would be nice if Paul made it to SoCal for training.
Yeah thats what I said. But I think Paul's traveling days are over and you'll just have to suck it up like I did and go visit him. His facilities are very nice and the barracks are great. They are clean and have everything you need- Showers, bed, linens, towels, washing machine/dryer, small kitchen etc.

Oh yeah, One nice thing about his standards is that we can actually do them here in CA even with neutered 10 round BB guns.
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Old 02-16-2012, 9:30 AM
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Great AAR, I'm going to look into training with mr. Howe.
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Old 02-16-2012, 9:33 AM
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Would be nice if Paul made it to SoCal for training.
I had asked Grey Group Training (GGT) for getting Paul to SoCal since I remember GGT announcing back in late 2010 that they'll be handling his out of state gigs. Today, I asked again.

Paul Howe (CSAT) / Grey Group Training Announcement
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Old 02-16-2012, 9:59 AM
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I had asked Grey Group Training (GGT) for getting Paul to SoCal since I remember GGT announcing back in late 2010 that they'll be handling his out of state gigs. Today, I asked again.

Paul Howe (CSAT) / Grey Group Training Announcement
Thanks Ramzar! Are you joining us this weeekend?
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Old 02-16-2012, 10:06 AM
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Thanks Ramzar! Are you joining us this weeekend?
Next month.
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Old 02-16-2012, 5:25 PM
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Oh yeah, One nice thing about his standards is that we can actually do them here in CA even with neutered 10 round BB guns.
Are these the same standards you're talking about?

http://www.combatshootingandtactics.com/standards.htm
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Old 02-16-2012, 5:34 PM
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Are these the same standards you're talking about?

http://www.combatshootingandtactics.com/standards.htm
yup. now all I need is a timer, some csat targets and a rental range at Burro.
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Old 02-16-2012, 5:45 PM
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yup. now all I need is a timer, some csat targets and a rental range at Burro.
A shot timer is a great training aid and stress inducer. I have both the CED 7000 and Pocket Pro 2. Both work great but the former is smaller and louder. If you have an iPhone try the free SureFire Shot Timer app which isn't bad but the standalone devices are a good investment.

What target does Paul use?
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Old 02-16-2012, 5:56 PM
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A shot timer is a great training aid and stress inducer. I have both the CED 7000 and Pocket Pro 2. Both work great but the former is smaller and louder. If you have an iPhone try the free SureFire Shot Timer app which isn't bad but the standalone devices are a good investment.

What target does Paul use?
For the standards and combat shooting he uses:


For sighting in he uses:

http://www.letargets.com/estylez_item.aspx?item=CSAT
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Old 02-16-2012, 6:13 PM
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Thanks.

Paul's ready position for carbine is low ready with muzzle below target's feet and looking at target (not through the sights)? For it to count as a hit it must land either in the square head or the rectangle below it?
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Old 02-16-2012, 6:14 PM
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So Magpul teaches cool guy ninja stuff okie dokie.
Tom McClintock? I just noticed your name. You're not Congressman Tom McClintock are you?
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Old 02-16-2012, 6:26 PM
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Thanks.

Paul's ready position for carbine is low ready with muzzle below target's feet and looking at target (not through the sights)? For it to count as a hit it must land either in the square head or the rectangle below it?
Always at the low ready, with muzzle below the waist. Never look through the sight (unless you're aiming or shooting). Never at the high ready because you can not discriminate and see if the person in front of you is friend or foe.

Most of the standard is the rectangle unless that particular standard requires head shots. If you make a head shot say at the 100 yard prone it doesn't count as a hit. But on the 5/1 drill. You make 5 body rectangle hits and 1 in the dome.

I just looked through the standards on his site, the way he lists them its kinda confusing.

Last edited by Clee; 02-16-2012 at 7:20 PM..
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Old 02-17-2012, 9:12 AM
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Since I've never read or seen any good explaination on to how to carry Sul, I decided to ask:
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Old 02-17-2012, 9:45 AM
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No ready position is an end all. Even SUL needs adjustment based on your gear and how fast you're moving.

Here's some background articles on SUL as created by Max Joseph of TFTT and Alan Brosnan.

Position SUL

Position SUL: Here's the Scoop
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Old 02-17-2012, 10:55 AM
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What type of camera were you using to capture the video. It looks like a helmet cam, I've been looking for something like that and I'm interested since the quality of video looked good.
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Old 02-17-2012, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kempfer View Post
What type of camera were you using to capture the video. It looks like a helmet cam, I've been looking for something like that and I'm interested since the quality of video looked good.
Contour Roam with contour headmount
http://contour.com/products/contour-roam

It not perfect but its not bad. Sucks when you wear a cap as it with captures your bill. You can tell by my vids you can partially see my beanie and eye pro. I need to find a better way to mount it. Also when its bright vids are great, when the low light comes not so much.

The shooting vids I have look pretty cool, particularly the vid I took when we did the Scrambler. Uploading it on youtube would take like 3 years since its over 13 minutes.

Last edited by Clee; 02-17-2012 at 11:06 AM..
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Old 02-17-2012, 11:27 AM
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Sweet, thanks for the info.
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:36 PM
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ZombieTactics ZombieTactics is offline
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Quote:
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What type of camera were you using to capture the video. It looks like a helmet cam, I've been looking for something like that and I'm interested since the quality of video looked good.
I'd suggest the Tachyon myself:
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Old 02-17-2012, 1:18 PM
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Kempfer

Whatever you decide to get just remember if you have it mounted on the head to turn if it off when your done filming. Don't forget like I did and then go take a leak in the bushes. That vid won't make it on youtube.
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