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  #1  
Old 02-19-2019, 3:43 PM
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Aldo The Apache Aldo The Apache is offline
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Default New PSA 16Ē Middy short stroking/FTF?

What’s up guys and gals,

I recently purchased a 16” middy 1:7 PSA freedom nitride upper with a pinned f marked FSB & PSA M16 BCH & CH. it’s sitting on a Anderson lower w/ PSA standard LPK, standard buffer/spring. Hellfighter MOD kit and 33.3 tactical CalCatch.
I’ve used MFT 10/30 mags & GI 10 rounders with the same results. Ammo is Fiocchi 223 55gr FMJBT.

This problem started the day I fired it for the first time as well as the 2nd range trip recently. Here’s what it does:

- The first time pulling the CH to load a round was tough, had to really crank.
- ejects rounds at around the 4-4:30 position.
- Fails to feed the next round after about 30-50 rounds. Picks up the round but round is angled up, not allowing the bolt to lock (slow fire and lots of time in between shots and mag changes).
- Bolt does not lock back on last round (sometimes) after 100 rounds or so.
- I shoulder the rifle more aggressively and seems to alleviate the problem (except on one occasion).

Observations:
I really have to slam the mags in if I load them to 10 and CH gets stiff when charging, so I’ve been loading 9 only. Same results.
I’ve cleaned and lubed with CLP and greased parts of the bolt, carrier and CH before and after each range use. Gas rings look fine and hold up to the stand up test. Spent casings show signs of scratches along the side where the round meets the M4 feed ramps (barrel has the M4 cuts as well). Brass or copper shavings collect on the 2 bottom locking lugs just above the M4 feed ramps (more so on the bolt release side than ejection port side locking lug).

Can anyone help? I think I covered everything but leave your comments if there are any more questions. Thanks!
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Last edited by Aldo The Apache; 02-19-2019 at 3:46 PM..
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Old 02-19-2019, 4:27 PM
shafferds shafferds is offline
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Did you lube up the bcg very well? If you manually push in the bcg with no charging handle on the upper with the lower off does it lock in easy and release easy?
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  #3  
Old 02-19-2019, 4:40 PM
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Originally Posted by shafferds View Post
Did you lube up the bcg very well? If you manually push in the bcg with no charging handle on the upper with the lower off does it lock in easy and release easy?
Yes itís lubed it well with CLP & grease, just like all my other ARís. And no I have not tried doing that but I will when I get home from work. Will update.
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Old 02-19-2019, 4:43 PM
H8Mud H8Mud is offline
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How many different magazines have you tried? Maybe a magazine issue.
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Old 02-19-2019, 4:45 PM
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How many different magazines have you tried? Maybe a magazine issue.
Iíve tried 2 MFT 10/30 mags and 3 10 rd GI metal mags with anti tilt followers
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  #6  
Old 02-19-2019, 4:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldo The Apache View Post
What’s up guys and gals,

I recently purchased a 16” middy 1:7 PSA freedom nitride upper with a pinned f marked FSB & PSA M16 BCH & CH. it’s sitting on a Anderson lower w/ PSA standard LPK, standard buffer/spring. Hellfighter MOD kit and 33.3 tactical CalCatch.
I’ve used MFT 10/30 mags & GI 10 rounders with the same results. Ammo is Fiocchi 223 55gr FMJBT.

This problem started the day I fired it for the first time as well as the 2nd range trip recently. Here’s what it does:

- The first time pulling the CH to load a round was tough, had to really crank.
- ejects rounds at around the 4-4:30 position.
- Fails to feed the next round after about 30-50 rounds. Picks up the round but round is angled up, not allowing the bolt to lock (slow fire and lots of time in between shots and mag changes).
- Bolt does not lock back on last round (sometimes) after 100 rounds or so.
- I shoulder the rifle more aggressively and seems to alleviate the problem (except on one occasion).

Observations:
I really have to slam the mags in if I load them to 10 and CH gets stiff when charging, so I’ve been loading 9 only. Same results.
I’ve cleaned and lubed with CLP and greased parts of the bolt, carrier and CH before and after each range use. Gas rings look fine and hold up to the stand up test. Spent casings show signs of scratches along the side where the round meets the M4 feed ramps (barrel has the M4 cuts as well). Brass or copper shavings collect on the 2 bottom locking lugs just above the M4 feed ramps (more so on the bolt release side than ejection port side locking lug).

Can anyone help? I think I covered everything but leave your comments if there are any more questions. Thanks!
An otherwise well lubed and functioning gun that has function problems only when hot is often related to the gas key not fitting the carrier well or the gas key screws not tight enough.
Swap in a known-good bolt carrier and see if the problem goes away.

If so, remove the gas key from the problem BCG and look for obvious gas leakage.
A leaking carrier/key can be lapped together until the sealing surfaces are fully sealing and then reinstalled with new gas key screws torqued and staked in place.
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Last edited by ar15barrels; 02-19-2019 at 4:53 PM..
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Old 02-19-2019, 4:59 PM
baih777 baih777 is offline
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Also check the alignment of the gas block to the gas port.
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  #8  
Old 02-19-2019, 5:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
An otherwise well lubed and functioning gun that has function problems only when hot is often related to the gas key not fitting the carrier well or the gas key screws not tight enough.
Swap in a known-good bolt carrier and see if the problem goes away.

If so, remove the gas key from the problem BCG and look for obvious gas leakage.
A leaking carrier/key can be lapped together until the sealing surfaces are fully sealing and then reinstalled with new gas key screws torqued and staked in place.
Iíll swap out the BCG and see if that cures the problem. Otherwise, if it does not, when is your next availability?
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  #9  
Old 02-19-2019, 5:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baih777 View Post
Also check the alignment of the gas block to the gas port.
It looks pretty square and true to me
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Old 02-19-2019, 5:20 PM
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Iíll swap out the BCG and see if that cures the problem. Otherwise, if it does not, when is your next availability?
Next week.
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Old 02-19-2019, 5:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Next week.
Iíll PM you with contact info for time and date
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Old 02-21-2019, 4:51 AM
RestrictedColt RestrictedColt is offline
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Sounds like it's acting under gassed; most likely leaking gas, or maybe blocked gas. Check your gas key screws to make sure they haven't loosened. Check to see if the gas tube is rubbing on the key. Also try adding a little lube when it starts acting up, a few drops into the vent holes on the side of the carrier and 'pump' the charging handle a little so it'll suck the oil in.

You said the charging handle was hard to pull the first time, maybe something was screwed up from the start and it has a mechanical problem. Returning it for warrantee repair is an option.


I've had two malfunctioning ARs, both Colts. A mid 90's with little use that would only cycle with fairly high powered ammo, short stroked on milder stuff. It continued getting worse with use. After much fighting, and several "experts" telling me it couldn't be the tube that I was suspecting, it turned out to be the slightly bent gas tube that was lightly rubbing on the key, a new tube fixed it and it'll cycle anything now.

A NOS late 90's HBAR that would stick as the bolt was pushing a round from the mag. Turned out that the bolt carrier was machined wrong and the cam pin was being forced to the side jamming it up. Some Dremel time cured it.
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Old 02-21-2019, 1:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RestrictedColt View Post
Sounds like it's acting under gassed; most likely leaking gas, or maybe blocked gas. Check your gas key screws to make sure they haven't loosened. Check to see if the gas tube is rubbing on the key. Also try adding a little lube when it starts acting up, a few drops into the vent holes on the side of the carrier and 'pump' the charging handle a little so it'll suck the oil in.
I’ve checked the gas tube and it seems to be true and centered with no unusual signs of uneven wear or damage. The carrier key seems to be tight with no wiggle whatsoever and staked properly. No unusual or uneven wear or damage either. I’m having a gunsmith check it out very shortly.

Quote:
You said the charging handle was hard to pull the first time, maybe something was screwed up from the start and it has a mechanical problem. Returning it for warrantee repair is an option.
Maybe... however, it runs fine for the first 30-50 rounds then starts acting up in the manner described above after that. So, I don’t believe that that has something to do with it. I’d rather wait to see if my gunsmith can fix the issue. If not, I’ll send it back to PSA for repair or replacement and wait who-knows-how-long to get it back.


Quote:
I've had two malfunctioning ARs, both Colts. A mid 90's with little use that would only cycle with fairly high powered ammo, short stroked on milder stuff. It continued getting worse with use. After much fighting, and several "experts" telling me it couldn't be the tube that I was suspecting, it turned out to be the slightly bent gas tube that was lightly rubbing on the key, a new tube fixed it and it'll cycle anything now.


A NOS late 90's HBAR that would stick as the bolt was pushing a round from the mag. Turned out that the bolt carrier was machined wrong and the cam pin was being forced to the side jamming it up. Some Dremel time cured it.
That’s really unfortunate and frustrating, I know. My gunsmith will check it out before starting on any repairs and or warranties through PSA. Who knows might be a minor thing?

Feedback appreciated!
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  #14  
Old 02-21-2019, 1:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldo The Apache View Post
The carrier key seems to be tight with no wiggle whatsoever and staked properly.
You won't be able to see a key problem without first removing the key.
The problem occurs while hot.
When the carrier heats up at 30-50 rounds, it starts leaking.
Once it cools, it's fine again until it heats back up.

If it's not that, it could also be that you are using crappy oil that is losing it's effectiveness after 30-50 rounds.
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Old 02-21-2019, 7:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
You won't be able to see a key problem without first removing the key.
The problem occurs while hot.
When the carrier heats up at 30-50 rounds, it starts leaking.
Once it cools, it's fine again until it heats back up.
Makes sense, expansion and contraction.

Quote:
If it's not that, it could also be that you are using crappy oil that is losing it's effectiveness after 30-50 rounds.
Iím using Break Free CLP and moly lithium grease on some parts of the bolt, sides of carrier and charging handle. Been using that combo for a while and worked very well for me. Iíll use CLP only and see how the upper reacts.
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