Savage Axis 308 Heavy Barrel

[North86]

Anyone have any experience with the Axis Heavy Barrel Line?

Please let me know.

TIA

[North86]

I have been shooting my friends' bolt guns, and enjoying it so I ordered an Axis 308 heavy barrel. I figured I could work the trigger and figure out something for the stock, but i wanted the heavier barrel. The $50 rebate doesn't hurt either.

Anyway, there is almost no info out there on the heavy barrels. What gives? Is this some sort of insider thing? Do people like the heavy barrels? Does it hold poi better than the sporter profile? Do you like yours?

Anyway, I have a few weeks before I get my rifle, thanks to the laws of the glorious workers paradise of Kalifornia. So other than the trigger mod, what other mods do folks like? Am I looking at the boyd's stock because that's the best option? It goes without saying, I bought an Axis, so cost matters.

[russ69]

Originally Posted by North86

...Anyway, there is almost no info out there on the heavy barrels. What gives? Is this some sort of insider thing? Do people like the heavy barrels? Does it hold poi better than the sporter profile?...

Heavy barrels are for target shooting and accuracy. The bigger barrel is stiffer and heats up slower. The down side is that they are heavy.

[North86]

Originally Posted by russ69

Heavy barrels are for target shooting and accuracy. The bigger barrel is stiffer and heats up slower. The down side is that they are heavy.

Thanks for the response. I understand the physics of it, and I hope that the heavy performs well, but it seems that there is no specific information about the heave versus the sporter profile out there. Or that compares the heavy to a remington 700, or something similar.

I hope I am not buying a dud.

[russ69]

Originally Posted by North86

...I hope I am not buying a dud.

I don't shop in that price segment but I'm sure it will be a good rifle for the price. If it's your first 308 bolt, just go shoot it and have fun, that's what it's all about.

[North86]

Originally Posted by russ69

I don't shop in that price segment but I'm sure it will be a good rifle for the price. If it's your first 308 bolt, just go shoot it and have fun, that's what it's all about.

Fair point Russ. Regardless, I will learn something and likely enjoy myself.

[NorCalFocus]

Your not getting a dud, you just not getting the cream of the crop. I bought my wife an Axis and for her to shooting mild jugs on BLM, its great. Its not in the same class as my 700, but it shoots just fine.

I have a Boyds stock on my 700, its one of the best budget options out there. I would pillar bed it and you should have a 1 MOA gun.

[North86]

Originally Posted by NorCalFocus

Your not getting a dud, you just not getting the cream of the crop. I bought my wife an Axis and for her to shooting mild jugs on BLM, its great. Its not in the same class as my 700, but it shoots just fine.

I have a Boyds stock on my 700, its one of the best budget options out there. I would pillar bed it and you should have a 1 MOA gun.

For the price, I know it's not cream of the crop. But it seems odd that there is so little info out there on the heavy barrel Axis. Tons on the sporter barrels, but almost nothing on the heavy.

Boyds is likely on the list of mods too.

Regardless, I'd be thrilled with 1 MOA.

[jbj]

There a ton of info for you about your gun at SavageShooters.com

A stock that fits you well, in that gun, should do well for you, and if you ever want to step up without dropping a ton of cash, the Savage 10/110 line is capable of stunning accuracy (it's bolt works differently than Remington, and some don't like how that feels). B&C is bringing out a M40-style stock that looks to be a winner in its price range. Or you can get a Manners/McMillan/chassis.

[jbj]

FWIW a thicker barrel is also thought to dampen vibrations, allowing for the bullet to travel a more uniform path, as well as absorb more heat, warping less than a slimmer barrel. Plenty of accurate sporter barrels, they just aren't meant for long strings of fire.

[2shotjoe]

Its new for axis line. Savageshooters.com will have more people owning it.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

[North86]

Originally Posted by bloodhawke83

Its new for axis line. Savageshooters.com will have more people owning it.

Tried. Not much there either.

[North86]

I jailed one yesterday. 9 days to go.

The barrel is definitely heavier than a stock sporter. No sure I would call it a "bull barrel" but it's certainly heavier than the standard. Trigger is heavy. I thought that it came with two rail sections, but it doesn't so I need to get a rail.

So the mods planned are:

Trigger mod with pen spring
Rail (need recommendation, thinking 20 MOA - i have scope ready to go)
stock mods (fill voids, brace fore end)
Bi-pod (need recommendation)

[NorCalFocus]

Originally Posted by North86

I jailed one yesterday. 9 days to go.

The barrel is definitely heavier than a stock sporter. No sure I would call it a "bull barrel" but it's certainly heavier than the standard. Trigger is heavy. I thought that it came with two rail sections, but it doesn't so I need to get a rail.

So the mods planned are:

Trigger mod with pen spring
Rail (need recommendation, thinking 20 MOA - i have scope ready to go)
stock mods (fill voids, brace fore end)
Bi-pod (need recommendation)

EGW 20 MOA Rail
Don't bother with that stock, spend a little money on a Boyd's and pillar bed it.
Harris is really nice, if you want a little cheaper go with UTG.

[ElvenSoul]

There are these and Timney makes one as well
http://www.eabco.com/Savage-Triggers.html

You don't hear much about them because you can get the Savage 11 at that price point. So people get the 11 even though it is a hunting rifle profile.

[milotrain]

Originally Posted by jbj

FWIW a thicker barrel is also thought to dampen vibrations, allowing for the bullet to travel a more uniform path, as well as absorb more heat, warping less than a slimmer barrel. Plenty of accurate sporter barrels, they just aren't meant for long strings of fire.

I'm going to be a nitpick sh*thead but whatever.

It doesn't dampen vibrations, you get the same vibration but it is moving a greater mass than a sporter barrel.
It doesn't absorb more heat, you get the same heat input and output but you are heating a larger mass than a sporter barrel.

[mu9en]

Originally Posted by jbj

There a ton of info for you about your gun at SavageShooters.com

A stock that fits you well, in that gun, should do well for you, and if you ever want to step up without dropping a ton of cash, the Savage 10/110 line is capable of stunning accuracy (it's bolt works differently than Remington, and some don't like how that feels). B&C is bringing out a M40-style stock that looks to be a winner in its price range. Or you can get a Manners/McMillan/chassis.

Nice setup!

[Guardian Mode]

Turners has one in greater LA area for like $300. Minus $50 rebate, seems like a steal.
Swap a lighter spring in the trigger, or cut the spring.
You could prolly rig one of those badger knows onto one somehow.
The blow $400 on a MDT LSS chassis plus another $100 or so on magpul furniture.
Match it with the new 5/6rd AC pmags and your choice of bipod and scope, and you got a killer budget setup that will take Savage prefit barrels too.

[JMP]

Originally Posted by dakinejb

A high end guns sure do look better than budget guns, but do they really out preform? From my experience that is a negative.

I have cheap guns and expensive guns. As a general rule of thumb, you get what you pay for. It's just that paying up for certain features and characteristics may have little to no perceived value for a given individual. Everyone has preferences that vary, and there are many different applications. That being said, there does seem to be a trend toward people paying more for cosmetic enhancements. In some cases, there may be a premium in a gun that simply LOOKS tactical but doesn't have an advantage.

[Guardian Mode]

But if you could get consistent sub moa shots off a lightly modified $250 axis heavy... That would be pretty cool in itself.

[ghost21]

Originally Posted by JMP

I have cheap guns and expensive guns. As a general rule of thumb, you get what you pay for. It's just that paying up for certain features and characteristics may have little to no perceived value for a given individual. Everyone has preferences that vary, and there are many different applications. That being said, there does seem to be a trend toward people paying more for cosmetic enhancements. In some cases, there may be a premium in a gun that simply LOOKS tactical but doesn't have an advantage.

My buddies Mossberg 715T comes to mind. Peel back the plastic and you have what amounts to a Marlin 795. Kinda silly and the 795 is a better buy IMO. dakinejb dose make a good point though and I concur with his assessment. Some people think the price of a gun makes it better or makes one shoot better when sometimes it's just a higher price point and sub par shooting skills. A Lexus is still a Toyota if you will (bells/whistles aside). Less expensive don't make it crap (Camry) and more expensive won't make you drive any better (Lexus). Maybe faster but not better.

[North86]

Originally Posted by Guardian Mode

But if you could get consistent sub moa shots off a lightly modified $250 axis heavy... That would be pretty cool in itself.

THAT is exactly my goal. Let's see how it goes.

[JMP]

Originally Posted by Guardian Mode

But if you could get consistent sub moa shots off a lightly modified $250 axis heavy... That would be pretty cool in itself.

1 arcminute is 1.047" at 100 yards. With reasonable ammunition, just about all modern bolt rifles can do this unless the chamber is not concentric, cut out of spec, your barrel is bent, or you have a cheap Chinese scope with a moving reticle. With match ammo, a $250 Savage should shoot a group with less than 1.047" divergence at 100 yards. If you are shooting 4" groups at 100 yards with decent ammo, a factory bolt rifle, and a scope that is manufactured this century, then there's likely a serious flaw in one's shooting technique.

Folks paying for higher quality rifles are generally demanding much more than 1MOA at 100 yards as maintaining 1 MOA shooting grows exponentially more difficult with distance.

[TomReloaded]

Anyone see hb axis rifles in the east bay area? I have a regular axis and would love a heavy barrel!

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by dakinejb

A high end guns sure do look better than budget guns, but do they really out preform?
From my experience that is a negative.

High end guns absolutely perform better than budget guns.
Many shooters are not good enough to be able to tell the difference though.
Your own experience shows that to be true.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by North86

it seems odd that there is so little info out there on the heavy barrel Axis.
Tons on the sporter barrels, but almost nothing on the heavy.

This is mostly a factor of TIME.
The heavy barrel model of the Axis is relatively new, while the sporter has been out for quite a few years.
As more people purchase the heavy barrel models, you will start seeing more reviews and comparisons.

[Guardian Mode]

Originally Posted by JMP

1 arcminute is 1.047" at 100 yards. With reasonable ammunition, just about all modern bolt rifles can do this unless the chamber is not concentric, cut out of spec, your barrel is bent, or you have a cheap Chinese scope with a moving reticle. With match ammo, a $250 Savage should shoot a group with less than 1.047" divergence at 100 yards. If you are shooting 4" groups at 100 yards with decent ammo, a factory bolt rifle, and a scope that is manufactured this century, then there's likely a serious flaw in one's shooting technique.

Folks paying for higher quality rifles are generally demanding much more than 1MOA at 100 yards as maintaining 1 MOA shooting grows exponentially more difficult with distance.

I actually agree. I think all new bolt guns are pretty damn accurate. But Sub moa or something near that performance from a 4rd mag is one thing. Getting good results thru 2 boxes of ammo is another.

I think that's the whole point of putting a heavier barrel on the axis.

It would be cool to test this gun against a Remington 700 tactical out of the box.

[North86]

Originally Posted by Guardian Mode

would be cool to test this gun against a Remington 700 tactical out of the box.

my buddy just got one. We plan to do this.

[Guardian Mode]

Did he get that $500 deal for the tactical that Turner's had a couple weeks back on a Wednesday?
I came super close to taking the day off to get that. Haha.

[North86]

Originally Posted by Guardian Mode

Did he get that $500 deal for the tactical that Turner's had a couple weeks back on a Wednesday?
I came super close to taking the day off to get that. Haha.

Yep. That very deal.

[boomer135]

Enjoy your new rifle:

I don't have the Axis, But I have the Savage Model 10PC Heavy 20" barrel.

Shooting with Fed Gold medal match 168gn SMK it is a 1MOA rifle, just today I got her at 1/2"MOA with my hand loads.

I plan to stretch this rifle out and see what she can do. I don't plan to hunt with it as it's heavy and I prefer to bow hunt. If I do rifle hunt my 7mm Mag comes out to play for the long shots.

If I were to choose a build for long range from the ground up I would choose the 7mm Rem Mag. Its a superior cartridge to the 308Win.

But I felt like toying with the 308, so I picked up the Savage model 10PC heavy barrel.

The Remington 700 series, have a much smoother action IMO. but nothing wrong with the savage, and I enjoy the Accu-trigger. Some on the other hand have trouble with the Accu-trigger with side loads. I do not. A Plus for me was the price was right on a lightly used rifle.


Bottom line: Buy what you can afford, use it, and decide from there… There is nothing wrong with any firearm as long as your happy with it, and shoot it well.

[Grunt81]

Originally Posted by milotrain

I'm going to be a nitpick sh*thead but whatever.

It doesn't dampen vibrations, you get the same vibration but it is moving a greater mass than a sporter barrel.

I hate to be a nitpick sh*thead, but don't mind since you were first.

You ever take a Trigonometry course? Remember the sin curve? The extent of barrel harmonics can be graphed and has a similar curve except it's amplitude vs. time as a function of bullet velocity, bearing surface, pressure, barrel length and barrel contour and material.

You'd find the amplitude of harmonic motion is smaller, thus the vibration is smaller. If the barrel is more massive, it's going to take more velocity and pressure etc... for it to vibrate the same as a pencil barrel. This is where the "heavy-contour is stiffer" saying comes from. You're equating vibration to input which are two totally different things. The input is on the X axis and it's the independent variable. The amplitude of the vibration is on the Y axis.

I shoot my pencil barrel .308 Savage hunting rifle at various distances. I am under no illusions. The accuracy is great for a factory rifle. But I shoot 3-4 rounds and let it cool 5-15 minutes depending on weather conditions and shoot something else or spot in the mean time. I know how hot is too hot for me to want to take another shot.

But my last time at the 1,000 yards line, I learned that my point of impact shifts up as my barrel heats up. I was able to get 2 spotting shots in the neighborhood and then hit 4 consecutive shots by making an adjustment of 0.2 mils down. That cold-bore first shot accuracy is better left to guys like JMP and AR15Barrels who have fancy weather stations and a lot of experience with their loads and rifles.

[Grunt81]

The OP should feel confident he'll build a decent target rifle for fun and building skills.

If your Savage stock is just a throw-away, and you intend on getting a better one, then see if you can fit (5) $1 between it and the barrel. See if you can still fit them if there's a bipod on and a shooting bag supporting the buttstock. I've felt the Axis stock and it's pretty dam flimsy to me.

My Savage 11 had a point of contact near the forend. A minute or two of sanding and it's now free floated as a mutha*er.

[AEtrane]

The axis lineup are well documented shooters. Lots of satisfied owners, myself included. I would have gotten the hb version myself, if it were out at the time. I'm happy enough with mine as is that I won't change much until the barrels toast, then it'll get a heavy profile.

I think the hb would make a great budget bench gun. I'll echo what's been said before; do the "pen spring mod" on the trigger (unless it came with an accutrigger). Also look into one of the boyds laminate stocks. The factory Tupperware stock is super wobbly. There are fixes for it, but you'll be ahead of the game if you just put it in a decent stock from the get go.

For cheap glass, the Bushnell elite fixed 10x is good to go; super clear for the money and basic.

If I did it over again, that's how I'd do it, and save up for better glass over time.

[North86]

So I finally got her home!!

A few things. First, the barrel is 0.75" at the end, which is certainly thicker than the stock sporter barrel. It's about 1.00" at the receiver. See Pic.



Second, the sstock is different from a regular savage stock. It may be an accustock from the newer axis II line. The fore end (shown) has different support and is very rigid compared to what I have read about the tupperware stocks on the sporter Axis models. Anyone have an Axis II to compare?

[Grunt81]

That's good news! It's always nice to bring a new baby home. You should put it back together to see if the barrel is free-floated.

Go to the Savage website and see the specifics on the accu-stock. Those rifles with pencil barrel and accustocks start around at $700.
http://www.savagearms.com/accuracy/ click on accustock.

Unfortunately I doubt you have it. That stock looks more like mine on the Savage 11 Trophy Hunter XP. It should be free-floated or sand it down if there are any high points. I a had on the tip of the forend.

Check out the Savage 11. See if the checkering on the grip is the same as yours.

[North86]

Pretty sure it's not an accustock. I believe that they have an aluminum spine and bedding.

It is free-floated, and it doesn't seem to flex much from pressure underneath. I guess I will need to shoot it to find out

[Grunt81]

Yup, you can probably shoot 3 5 shot groups or more back to back without any heat issues.

Press on the front of the forend to see if you can still slide paper under it. Mine was fine off a sand bag or bipod from its own weight. But when I pressed it with my fingers I could make the stock touch the barrel. That's when I decided to sand it just to be thorough.

[milotrain]

Originally Posted by Grunt81

harmonic motion is smaller, thus the vibration is smaller.

So with a typical damped sprung mass you have a mass, a spring and a damper. In the case of a heavy barrel what are you claiming is the damper? Don't you think you are simply talking about a large sprung mass with a lower ratio of input force for said sprung mass?

Originally Posted by Grunt81

I know how hot is too hot for me to want to take another shot.

There is no question that a pencil barrel is more easily effected by the same amount of heat. You are not seriously claiming that there is somehow more heat in a pencil barrel than a heavy barrel (assuming the same charge).

[rsrocket1]

Congratulations North!
Now come on, clean it up, take it out and show us some groups!