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Optics, Mounts, Rails and Sights If it aims your firearm, post about it here.

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  #1  
Old 08-26-2009, 2:43 PM
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Default Eotech, DM, Aimpoint 3x or 4x with larue / Samson mounts?

I'm not sure which one is best? I realize the 4x eotech is probably better than the 3x, but it's considerably more expensive. Is it worth it?

Which is the best and why? I heard some people say the aimpoint 3x is better than the eotech 4x?

I will be using this with an eotech 516.

Last edited by Justintoxicated; 09-03-2009 at 3:17 PM.. Reason: Adding DM Premium to the topic
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  #2  
Old 08-26-2009, 4:55 PM
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A few points for you to consider:
1. EOTech 4X is now discontinued but you can still find them second hand. It's heavy but the glass quality and FOV is the best of all the magnifiers. If you can find the 4X in the same price range as the 3X, get the 4X.
2. You have to use the EOTech FTS mount. LaRue only makes an EOTech FTS mount for the 3X and it will align with absolute EOTEchs like the 512, 552 and XPS.
3. The AP 3X is nice in that it has a little bit more eye relief than the EOTech models. The LaRue AP 3X FTS mount is excellent.
4. To save some cash, check out the DM Premium magnifiers. According to them, they use Swiss glass so it'll be better than the cheap airsoft magnifiers.
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  #3  
Old 08-26-2009, 10:30 PM
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Ok the prices I am looking at are.

Eotech
4x w/FTS = $647
3x Gen 2 w/FTS = $432

Aimpoint
3x = 397 + FTS($150) = $547

So which to get?
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  #4  
Old 08-26-2009, 10:32 PM
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I'd go with the Gen 2 or the DM Premium.
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  #5  
Old 08-26-2009, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSet View Post
I'd go with the Gen 2 or the DM Premium.
DM Premium 4x with Samson FTS is $416

How does the eye relief and quailit compare to the eotech? Thinking resale value it seems the eotech3x might hold its value better?

Last edited by Justintoxicated; 08-26-2009 at 10:39 PM..
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  #6  
Old 08-26-2009, 10:39 PM
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That price ain't bad. I've handled or used all of them except the DM Premiums so you're moving into uncharted territory.
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  #7  
Old 08-26-2009, 11:37 PM
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Are you not considering the Eotech G23? (3X, New Model)
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  #8  
Old 08-26-2009, 11:38 PM
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He listed it. That's the Gen 2.
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  #9  
Old 08-27-2009, 6:14 AM
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yea what I want know now is if the DM Premium 4x is better than the eotech 3x (gen 2) or aimpoint 3x
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  #10  
Old 08-27-2009, 12:30 PM
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I don't know anyone who's tried the DM yet but for my backup rifle, I may pair up the 4x with the EOTech XPS.
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  #11  
Old 08-27-2009, 7:25 PM
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whats on your non backup?

That 4x looks really long Will I need to mount the eotech on my Omega Rail? Also will it clear my troy flip up sight?

I don't want to save $200 then regret getting the 4x eotech later. But if its just as good or better for less money I would certainly prefer it.

Just to make things more complicated I went and looked at some ACOGs today and damn those optics in them are super clear and bright....
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  #12  
Old 08-27-2009, 7:30 PM
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My primary now carries a TR24 1-4X variable. It's not as fast as my EOTech but it's definitely lighter and has battery requirements. I still loves me some EOTech though.
ACOGs are damn nice but I could never get the BAC working correctly so anything 50y and closer was a pain.
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  #13  
Old 08-27-2009, 7:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSet View Post
My primary now carries a TR24 1-4X variable. It's not as fast as my EOTech but it's definitely lighter and has battery requirements. I still loves me some EOTech though.
ACOGs are damn nice but I could never get the BAC working correctly so anything 50y and closer was a pain.
ok the objective on the 4x eotech is quite 10mm larger than the DM, so now I'm thinking to spend the extra money and get that. Still though I wonder how clear the DM optics are because I don't think I really need a huge objective when target shooting...
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  #14  
Old 08-28-2009, 6:11 AM
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Ok so I ended up getting the DM Premium 4x with Quickflip DM/Samson Mount for $345 shipped?

Did I do ok?

I'm excited, but I didn't think I was going to win the auction for that price heh. Hope I don't regret it. If I do this setup will go on my home defense ar and I'll get the ACOG for the one I have been using for target shooting.

The nice thing is I can afford those Adjustable Night Sights I bought for my HK expert now as well
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  #15  
Old 08-28-2009, 6:47 AM
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Cool. Post a review when you get them. That's a great price for a 4x with FTS mount.
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  #16  
Old 08-28-2009, 9:45 AM
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Do the FTS mounts give the magnifiers a 7mm rise? I have a Eotech 517 and was wondering if any of the magnifiers listed in this thread would align properly? Thanks

BTW Justintoxicated, where did you purchase that 4x Mag? That's a great price!

Last edited by donny619; 08-28-2009 at 10:07 AM..
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  #17  
Old 08-28-2009, 10:09 AM
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All of them will properly align except I don't have first hand experience with the DMs. Their FTS mount can be adjusted vertically and horizontally.
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  #18  
Old 08-28-2009, 10:14 AM
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I won it on ebay, no one else bid on it

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...#ht_533wt_1156

This is the one I had previously listed the price for after Bing Cashback
http://cgi.ebay.com/DM-Premium-Optic...ht_1082wt_1156

Last edited by Justintoxicated; 08-28-2009 at 10:16 AM..
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  #19  
Old 08-28-2009, 10:17 AM
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NICE... i was just looking at that one.. He has another for sale... =)
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  #20  
Old 08-28-2009, 11:17 AM
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Considering that the mount is almost $200, that's a heckuva deal. Let us know how the glass works out.
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  #21  
Old 08-28-2009, 12:21 PM
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Thanks for that info SuperSet.

Justintox, definitely let us know how it works out!
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  #22  
Old 08-28-2009, 12:40 PM
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FYI,

it looks like someone has a riser that would work for the magnifiers and the raised eotech models.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=136618866

it ended but the seller says he will have more shortly. I'm going to buy one of these plus a primary arms 3X w/fts mount
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  #23  
Old 08-28-2009, 12:57 PM
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These magnifiers don't require a riser.
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Old 08-28-2009, 1:09 PM
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right, but when i get the primary arms 3X mount w/fts, i will need it because of my eotech 557.
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  #25  
Old 08-28-2009, 1:16 PM
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Haven't used the PA magnifiers so if it's made to align with absolute cowitness magnifiers, a riser would make sense.
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  #26  
Old 09-02-2009, 8:07 PM
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I go the DM premium. Its dark out so I have not had it outside. The FOV is about 1/2 or 1/3rd of the Trijicon, the eye reliefe if also about 1/2 or 3rd. It seems to be pretty clear and bright.

Unfortunately I will ave to sell it because this setup does not seem to work with my eotech. Fist, in order to keep my BUIS I have to mount the eotech on my Omega Rail (first notch). Second, the optic is too tall and I cannot get the reticle near the center. Well I kinda can if I apply upward pressure on the back of the magnifier or downward pressure towards the front. It's close...It needs maybe a couple mm off, but it's enough that it canot be used.
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  #27  
Old 09-02-2009, 8:14 PM
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Congrats dude, you're the first one to write up something on the DM.
That mount is supposed to have both vertical and horizontal adjustments so if it's too tall, shouldn't it be correctable? There's some instructions on their website. I'd at least give them a call before dumping it.
BTW, all the magnifiers will have a smaller FOV compared to an ACOG. Optics are about compromises.

PS. Can you post a pic to help describe your BUIS + EOTech + magnifier fit problem? Is it because the magnifier extends too far out front?

Last edited by SuperSet; 09-02-2009 at 8:16 PM..
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  #28  
Old 09-02-2009, 8:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSet View Post
Congrats dude, you're the first one to write up something on the DM.
That mount is supposed to have both vertical and horizontal adjustments so if it's too tall, shouldn't it be correctable? There's some instructions on their website. I'd at least give them a call before dumping it.
BTW, all the magnifiers will have a smaller FOV compared to an ACOG. Optics are about compromises.
It is adjusted as far down as it can go. meaning I would have to buy a riser for the Eotech, which is a solution I am not crazy about. I think I will have to go a different route. perhaps it would work with an aimpoint I dunno...

It seems to be mounted at a very slight angle, if that could be corrected it might just barley put the reticle in the center. Perhaps if I hav it flip to the left by reversing the mount....then it might angle it down rather than up..

Hmmmm now that im thinking about it thats probably how it is supposed t go anyways? Its been a long long day...

Last edited by Justintoxicated; 09-02-2009 at 8:26 PM..
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  #29  
Old 09-02-2009, 8:44 PM
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Can't help you without a pic. Give them a call tomorrow and I'm sure they'll help you out. I've talked to them on a couple of instances and they were very helpful.
Their website has some stuff about slightly angled due to the rubber spacers. Have you read all that? Which EOTech do you have BTW?
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  #30  
Old 09-02-2009, 10:37 PM
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hard to get a pic that would escribe the problem I am having...

edit:
OMG I got it right! I didnt locktight the srews because I was messing with them so much but its working now!

Sweet! This should do me fine, I will try to get pics but I'm in the process of moving.

My only complaint is that I want the optic pushed back futher, I have 2 notches I can move it back, but...Then I have to ditch my Troy BUIS. (I had to mount the EOtech 516 on the Omega Rail)

Oh yea and I'm using it with an EOTech 516

Last edited by Justintoxicated; 09-02-2009 at 11:16 PM..
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  #31  
Old 09-02-2009, 11:17 PM
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we need some pics!
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  #32  
Old 09-02-2009, 11:22 PM
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i'm very interested in seeing how this will work with my aimpoint comp m4s.

the rear buis is a troy tritium folding sight, so it does go down. since your rifle top is almost identical to mine (omega 9 inch rail, bcm upper mid-length and troy rear sight) i can't wait to see your pics


Last edited by zangetsu; 09-02-2009 at 11:26 PM..
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  #33  
Old 09-03-2009, 3:45 AM
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c'mon the wait is torture! lol. please take a pic with it mounted and the gun on its side like mine is so i can get some idea please
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  #34  
Old 09-03-2009, 7:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justintoxicated View Post
hard to get a pic that would escribe the problem I am having...

edit:
OMG I got it right! I didnt locktight the srews because I was messing with them so much but its working now!

Sweet! This should do me fine, I will try to get pics but I'm in the process of moving.

My only complaint is that I want the optic pushed back futher, I have 2 notches I can move it back, but...Then I have to ditch my Troy BUIS. (I had to mount the EOtech 516 on the Omega Rail)

Oh yea and I'm using it with an EOTech 516
Good deal. From their website, it looks like it should all fit and you shouldn't have to put the 516 on your handguard (bridging the handguard is okay). Anyway, looking forward to those pics.
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  #35  
Old 09-03-2009, 11:40 AM
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I had to put it on the hand guard because the magnifier is too long and would hit the EoTech. If I get rid of my BUIS, then it should fit on the top ( I can move the mount back 2 positions) and provide better eye position.

How much play is there in the Larue FTS mount? This one has a little play (but it is kept under spring tension). When you hit the latch the mount flips itself to the side. I still don't feel great that a sight push up or pull down can move the reticle around, but I'm not sure a Larue would be any better? Maybe it is?

I should be able to get a pic up Monday, of course since my PC died it might take longer.
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  #36  
Old 09-03-2009, 12:17 PM
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The LaRue FTS mount has some play at the hinge point but this applies only to the mount. The magnifier attachment to the mount is very secure. The DM Premium should be the same way. Are you saying that you have play in the magnifier-to-mount or in the mount itself?

PS. Have you talked to the folks at DM about the length and fit?
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  #37  
Old 09-03-2009, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSet View Post
The LaRue FTS mount has some play at the hinge point but this applies only to the mount. The magnifier attachment to the mount is very secure. The DM Premium should be the same way. Are you saying that you have play in the magnifier-to-mount or in the mount itself?

PS. Have you talked to the folks at DM about the length and fit?
No I have not contacted them and may not have time to do so until sometime next week or later. I wont get to test it in the daylight until Monday. I'm in the process of moving and it is painful.

The play is in the mount itself, but there must be some play in the magnifier attachment as well (although I think once fully tightened it seems pretty good you can still get the dot to come off center a little. I feel it is because I'm fully adjusted vertically, and so the little track the adjustment piece is attached to does not make much contact with the holding arm. Basically the notch fits in the grove and there is a set screw to lock it in place. However with the notch is 90% out of the grove (do to being raised as much as possible) this allows for more wiggle room and even though it is locked by a single set screw it may not be enough to prevent the dot from coming off center.

I have a feeling the optic is great, but the mount is ALMOST great but may have some flaws...The design is excellent, but perhaps the matching would be better. It also put some light scratches on the optic body when trying to close the ring (it is on a hinge and the foam spacer forces the optic to slight raise in the front). So then when you go to close the ring it scratches the body of the optic. I found holding the optic against the hinging portion of the ring helps avoid the problem but it should be noted somewhere... Nothing serious though you cant even see the scratches once mounted anyways.
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  #38  
Old 09-03-2009, 1:07 PM
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I'm thinking a piece of electrical tape might shim the protruding notch enough to make it snug in the slot. I think they should have used 2 notches and 2 slots and 2 set screws....
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Old 09-07-2009, 2:36 PM
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Ill try to get some pics up soon.

I tested this guy out today and whil the optic was working great the whole setup sucked. I got fed up and put the AR away. Every shot the magnifier would come out of adjustment. I didn't lock tight hte screws yet but it had nothing to do with that, theres jsut too much wiggle in the vertical adjustment no matter how tight you make the set screw. This is because it is slid to be as tall as possible leaving as little rail in possible inside the track.

Dam will contact me tomorrow and I'm hoping for a replacement setup that I can sell. Another problem is that I have to mount the eotech too far forward and that leaves too much room between the optic and the eotech, so some of the eye relief is wasted unless you want to see the eotech's top in the objective.

If I can't reutrun it I guess I just blew $330 and should have just bought the 4 eotech from the start...
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  #40  
Old 09-07-2009, 2:52 PM
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damn that sucks
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