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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 03-28-2020, 5:21 PM
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Default Trump Administration Names Gun Stores Essential Nationwide

The DHS guidelines list as essential:

Workers supporting the manufacturing of safety equipment and uniforms for law enforcement, public safety personnel, and first responders.
Workers supporting the operation of firearm or ammunition product manufacturers, retailers, importers, distributors, and shooting ranges.
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Old 03-28-2020, 5:28 PM
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Like the Barbosa quote from the movie Pirates of the Caribbean: "We consider it more of a ... 'guideline'"
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Old 03-28-2020, 5:36 PM
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yesss, right on Trump!
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Old 03-28-2020, 5:47 PM
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YEE YEE
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Old 03-28-2020, 5:49 PM
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YEE YEE
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Old 03-28-2020, 5:53 PM
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Send this en masse to that azzhat Lizcardo.
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Old 03-28-2020, 6:03 PM
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I hope this finally shuts all those trolls spamming that the Trump administration has done nothing for guns.
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Old 03-28-2020, 6:04 PM
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Originally Posted by kuug View Post
The DHS guidelines list as essential:

Workers supporting the manufacturing of safety equipment and uniforms for law enforcement, public safety personnel, and first responders.
Workers supporting the operation of firearm or ammunition product manufacturers, retailers, importers, distributors, and shooting ranges.
Source link?

Is this something new or something old that has been conveniently ignored and covered up?
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Old 03-28-2020, 6:07 PM
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Originally Posted by kuug View Post
I hope this finally shuts all those trolls spamming that the Trump administration has done nothing for guns.
No, it wont, they are mostly all paid shills working for Brady and Bloomberg.

The Department of Homeland Security added gun dealers, ranges, and manufacturers to its essential business coronavirus-response guide on Saturday.

The updated guidance from DHS's Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) now considers "workers supporting the operation of firearm or ammunition product manufacturers, retailers, importers, distributors, and shooting ranges" to be essential. Those industry workers are listed under the designation for "law enforcement, public safety, and other first responders."

Anyone want to try and argue this would have happened under HRC, Joe Biden or Bernie Sanders or any other of the batcrap crazy democrats running for president?


Clck on link and go to drop down menu item; LAW ENFORCEMENT, PUBLIC SAFETY AND OTHER FIRST RESPONDERS, its the 6th bullet point down...listing: "Workers supporting the operation of firearm or ammunition product manufacturers, retailers, importers, distributors, and shooting ranges."

https://www.cisa.gov/publication/gui...ture-workforce
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Last edited by OCEquestrian; 03-28-2020 at 6:14 PM..
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  #10  
Old 03-28-2020, 6:21 PM
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Communist states will ignore these guidelines like they ignore ICE.
Newsom is CA's God and Savior and he trumps Trump..in his own mind, and will continue to dictate to CA sheriffs and mayors..


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  #11  
Old 03-28-2020, 6:23 PM
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So a March 28, 2020 Federal guidance document.

Critical language in third paragraph:

"This list is advisory in nature. It is not, nor should it be considered, a federal directive or standard. Additionally, this advisory list is not intended to be the exclusive list of critical infrastructure sectors, workers, and functions that should continue during the COVID-19 response across all jurisdictions. Individual jurisdictions should add or subtract essential workforce categories based on their own requirements and discretion."

I would guess that State, County or Local directives "trump" Federal advisories. But, I like the underlying thought pattern this document expresses.
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Last edited by ARFrog; 03-28-2020 at 6:26 PM..
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Old 03-28-2020, 6:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ARFrog View Post
So a March 28, 2020 Federal guidance document.

Critical language in third paragraph:

"This list is advisory in nature. It is not, nor should it be considered, a federal directive or standard. Additionally, this advisory list is not intended to be the exclusive list of critical infrastructure sectors, workers, and functions that should continue during the COVID-19 response across all jurisdictions. Individual jurisdictions should add or subtract essential workforce categories based on their own requirements and discretion."

I would guess that State, County or Local directives "trump" Federal advisories. But, I like the underlying thought pattern this document expresses.
Looks like states rights "trump" Federalism right now....
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  #13  
Old 03-28-2020, 7:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuug View Post
The DHS guidelines list as essential:

Workers supporting the manufacturing of safety equipment and uniforms for law enforcement, public safety personnel, and first responders.
Workers supporting the operation of firearm or ammunition product manufacturers, retailers, importers, distributors, and shooting ranges.
its an advisory, not directive! kind of what vilanueva did and took advise from Newsown!
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Old 03-28-2020, 10:22 PM
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Default Trump Administration Names Gun Stores Essential Nationwide

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARFrog View Post
So a March 28, 2020 Federal guidance document.

Critical language in third paragraph:

"This list is advisory in nature. It is not, nor should it be considered, a federal directive or standard. Additionally, this advisory list is not intended to be the exclusive list of critical infrastructure sectors, workers, and functions that should continue during the COVID-19 response across all jurisdictions. Individual jurisdictions should add or subtract essential workforce categories based on their own requirements and discretion."

I would guess that State, County or Local directives "trump" Federal advisories. But, I like the underlying thought pattern this document expresses.


Correct, but Los Angeles County has deemed sectors under CISA to be exempt from the order, according to this: https://twitter.com/countyofla/statu...369716225?s=21


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  #15  
Old 03-28-2020, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan_Eastvale View Post
Communist states will ignore these guidelines like they ignore ICE.
Newsom is CA's God and Savior and he trumps Trump..in his own mind, and will continue to dictate to CA sheriffs and mayors..


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Originally Posted by usr1987 View Post
its an advisory, not directive! kind of what vilanueva did and took advise from Newsown!
Come on, we are the good guys. Get your stuff together, we don't need to make blatantly untrue statements.

NewScum, refused to comment on 'Gun Store Closures as Non Essential".

Not having the nuts to make a public statement of his agenda. Is not the same as dictating policy or even advising.
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Old 03-29-2020, 1:32 AM
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I've noted this on several threads. Santa Clara County has been the most open regarding the thought process related to what is 'enforceable' vs. a 'guideline' vs. 'suggested' vs.... Some of it comes down to interpretation. Some of it comes down to confusion. Some of it comes down to which order an individual department feels it is tasked to enforce. Insofar as Santa Clara County, it was noted in this piece... Coronavirus: Newsom’s stay-at-home order differs from the Bay Area’s shelter-in-place rules. Now what happens?...

Quote:
...“By and large, we think that there is mostly overlap between the two,” said Santa Clara County Counsel James Williams. “Residents should abide by both orders, and that means that whichever is more restrictive on a specific category controls.”...

“The general rule here is that the governor’s order is going to supersede any inconsistent or conflicting local regulation,” said Stephen Duvernay, a senior research fellow at Berkeley Law’s California Constitution Center. “Basically, it’s going to be the more restrictive consistent regulation that will apply.”...
Since Gov. Gavin Newsom says state won't issue guidance on whether gun stores are essential businesses

Quote:
California Gov. Gavin Newsom will not offer official guidance on whether gun stores can be classified as essential businesses and remain open during the state's shelter-in-place order...

"I belive in people's right to bear arms and I believe people are exercising that right," Newsom said of reports of increased sales at gun stores. "But I'll defer to the sheriff in this instance, and I'll defer to sheriffs in their respective jurisdictions for that clarification."...
As already noted, the DHS Memo clearly states...

Quote:
This list is advisory in nature. It is not, nor should it be considered, a federal directive or standard. Additionally, this advisory list is not intended to be the exclusive list of critical infrastructure sectors, workers, and functions that should continue during the COVID-19 response across all jurisdictions. Individual jurisdictions should add or subtract essential workforce categories based on their own requirements and discretion.
Thus, there is no, clear cut definition of what is or is not 'essential' or 'non-essential' from either the Federal or State Governments. That leaves cities and counties to make their own determinations and, as we just saw, "it’s going to be the more restrictive consistent regulation that will apply."

In some respects, that appears to fly in the face of what many perceive as their rights under the 2nd Amendment. From a certain point of view, it is. However, there are several pragmatic issues which will be argued in its favor. In theory...
  • City and County officials are the most directly answerable to their constituencies
  • City and County officials have the most direct knowledge of the resources they have immediately available
  • City and County officials have the most direct knowledge of the impacts of both the virus and any shut downs on their populace
  • City and County officials have the best knowledge of how 'essential' any, given business activity is in their area(s)
In short, while there is, inevitably, a certain amount of politics involved here, it's not about what Trump has or hasn't done "for guns." What Trump and the Federal Government are doing is exactly what the DHS memo states: "Individual jurisdictions should add or subtract essential workforce categories based on their own requirements and discretion." Put another way, cities and counties are being given as much latitude as possible to react based on their individual circumstances.

While I'm sure the Left would argue (because some already have and are) that Trump is refusing to accept the seriousness of the situation, is incompetent to deal with the issue, and is loathe to 'take responsibility,' bear in mind that we are doing exactly the same thing vis a vis Newsom; i.e., we are assuming he's attempting to groom himself for an eventual Presidential run, is 'secretly' pushing his agenda, et al. We know, given his own admissions, that Cuomo is doing precisely that in New York, basically claiming that New York should take precedence over 'everyone else' with regard to ventilators, financial assistance, et al.

From a certain perspective, that's actually Cuomo's job as Governor of New York. In that sense, he's actually do a 'better' job than Newsom in that Cuomo is, at least, being specific and taking responsibility for what he says, no matter how 'wrong' he is from a broader point of view. On the other hand, Newsom is doing the usual politician shuffle; attempting to be seen as "in command" while simultaneously trying to avoid being tagged as "responsible." As a result, as both a former U.S. Attorney and a former clerk for a Supreme Court Justice claim there is, deliberately or not, far too much ambiguity in Newsom's order(s), resulting in two articles...

A little over a week ago, Bloomberg published a take on the California Stay-At-Home Order... California’s Stay-at-Home Order Is a Legal Mess

Quote:
...This incoherence is not trivial. An order like this is only useful if people know what it means...

The order, as it stands, is incoherent at best and outrageous at worst. The best solution would be quick amendments to clarify its reach and protect the free press. Otherwise, confusion and even litigation seem inevitable. That’s not what we need during a public health crisis...
A few days ago, another article popped-up in the Los Angeles Times Opinion section... Column: Here's what's wrong with Gov. Newsom's stay-at-home order: It's a legal mess

Quote:
There is little doubt about the overall wisdom of Gov. Gavin Newsom’s response to the coronavirus pandemic: On March 19, he ordered Californians to stay home for everyone’s good.

But the order’s legal adequacy is another matter. In fact, legally speaking, it’s something of a mess. As it drags on, it will chafe and even cripple many Californians. Some of them will react for their own good: They’ll sue...
In the end, could DHS (e.g., the Trump Administration) be laying the groundwork to 'help' gun stores, manufacturers, et al. specifically during a time of economic crisis? Yes. In fact, to be fair, even some anti-gun States have declared gun retailers, manufacturers, and the like 'essential;' in part, due to financial considerations.

Could they also be laying the groundwork to 'help' protect the 2nd Amendment against nefarious machinations? Maybe. It may be a 'step' in that direction and, as is partly proving the case on a more regional basis, it's something we'd be unlikely to see by an Administration more "on the Left;" but, until it is made an order and the order is given teeth, it's still only an 'advisory' that allows local governments to pass and enforce more restrictive orders as those local governments see 'necessary.'

So, at best, it could be interpreted as a 'warning shot' by the Administration. It's about the 'best' we could hope for given the political times and the situation... At least for now.
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Old 03-29-2020, 10:38 AM
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https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...es-nationwide/

"The Second Amendment Foundation’s Alan Gottlieb commented on the DHS declaration, saying, “Every freedom loving American owes President Trump and his administration a very big thank you for protecting our Second Amendment Rights. This is another Trump promise made and promise kept.”

The DHS declaration comes just days after Governor Phil Murphy (D) laughed in the face of a man who expressed concern that the statewide shutdown in New Jersey had put an end to gun sales, thereby eliminating the ability to get a firearm for self-defense."

As an aside Governor Newsome showed his leadership skills by passing the buck to Sheriffs ! An executive Newsome is NOT !
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Last edited by ja308; 03-29-2020 at 10:42 AM..
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Old 03-29-2020, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ARFrog View Post
Source link?

Is this something new or something old that has been conveniently ignored and covered up?

Saw this morning when a friend sent it to me.


https://www.thegunwriter.com/25025/b...al-businesses/


And this


https://www.nraila.org/articles/2020...tores-critical
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Old 03-29-2020, 1:05 PM
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Post#16 - good summary

Here's hoping the shot across the local bow is heeded. Baring that, here's hoping that the newly files lawsuits will bring clarity and a restoration of infringed rights.
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Old 03-29-2020, 3:12 PM
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Originally Posted by TrappedinCalifornia View Post
In short, while there is, inevitably, a certain amount of politics involved here, it's not about what Trump has or hasn't done "for guns." What Trump and the Federal Government are doing is exactly what the DHS memo states: "Individual jurisdictions should add or subtract essential workforce categories based on their own requirements and discretion." Put another way, cities and counties are being given as much latitude as possible to react based on their individual circumstances.
This is the correct reading and effect of the DHS' suggestions.
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Old 03-30-2020, 10:46 AM
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The Governor of New Jersey just said that guns stores will remain open on an appointment basis. He also said that it was because of the new DHS guidelines and he wouldn’t have deemed them essential except for the guidelines. Winning! (Small win)
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Old 03-30-2020, 7:21 PM
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Well thats a start......I would personally like to see a more serious effort. He hasnt done much yet....
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Old 03-30-2020, 8:55 PM
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And LA Sheriff now says gun stores are essential (again) based on the DHS guidance.


LA County Sheriff Pulls Opposition to Gun Stores as Essential Businesses https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/l...esses/2338110/
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Old 03-31-2020, 5:45 AM
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Now to get gunshop SUPPLY LINES moving again!

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Old 04-05-2020, 4:44 AM
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Well thats a start......I would personally like to see a more serious effort. He hasnt done much yet....
Who hasn't done much yet ?
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