Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > SPECIALTY FORUMS > Calguns LEOs
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-08-2014, 11:44 PM
whatwhy's Avatar
whatwhy whatwhy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 516
iTrader: 23 / 100%
Default Charging a fee to sign off on ticket (+do new cops get sent out to "train"?)

PART 1
So I recently found out that a lot of police departments and CHP will charge a fee, upward of $20-$25 to sign off on a correctable violation (like a busted headlamp).

This is ON TOP of the court fee that you have to pay.

Could any LEOs chime in and comment on this? It feels like a money-grab scheme and I would be totally okay with it if it were in the law somewhere that said a fee would be charged by the entity enforcing the CVC to sign off on a ticket. But it doesn't. In the past, I've had a correctable violation signed off and no fee was charged.

Just to be clear, this is merely out of curiosity. The fee isn't a big deal and it's clearly my fault that I had a busted headlight.

PART 2
On a brighter note, the officer was probably the most pleasant officer to ever pull me over -- he first apologized for pulling me over and then kept asking me if I had any other questions and whatnot (still ended up giving me a ticket despite being so apologetic ). I had left my place maybe 3 blocks and had seen 3 different cars pulled over by police, and then I passed two more police cars before this one saw me coming.

We were going in opposite directions. I saw the driving officer stick his head out of the window (it was pretty exaggerated) to look at my car as I passed. I passed, saw him make a U-turn in my rearview--which caused him to cut off traffic behind me in a somewhat dangerous manner (he didn't put his lights on, just suddenly pulled out of traffic)--also didn't make the turn so ended up doing a 3 point turn.

Anyway, long story short, I knew I was in for it already so the next street over I just stopped on the side and waited to get lit up. My question is: do police departments "invade" neighborhoods and use it to "train" all their new officers or something? The officer that cited me was extremely nervous. His partner made it to my window first and I asked him why I was stopped, to which he responded: "Hold on, my partner will talk to you." Everything about it felt like I was being targeted for "practice" -- that doesn't excuse my moving infraction but just curious if that's what happened.

Thanks!
__________________

The materials and information contained above in this post are for informational purposes only and not for the purpose of providing legal advice. No attorney-client relationship is created by any interaction with the author of such materials and information.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-09-2014, 12:30 AM
Ron-Solo's Avatar
Ron-Solo Ron-Solo is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Classified
Posts: 8,581
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Default

Part 1

LASD has done this for years. The fee helps offset the time involved, but not much. The courts in LA require a certificate of correction to be issued due to fraud in the past. LASD figured out how much it was costing the department to process the certificate and set the fee accordingly. When I retired in 2011, the fee was $15.

Part 2

They don't "invade" neighborhoods but if an area is having a high numer of traffic incidents, it might get some saturation patrol, which has a definite impact on the number of accidents. It puts drivers on their best behavior when they see cars getting stopped everywhere.

Good chance you were stopped by a training car, with a trainee and training officer. Everyone has to learn how it's done, and doing it is the best way. LASD's field training program is generally 6 months once you are assigned to a station after working custody or the courts. That is in addition to a 16-18 week academy. (academy classes that run thru the holidays may go longer than 16 weeks because of said holidays and scheduling issues. The State POST requires a minimum number of instruction hours)
__________________
LASD Retired
1978-2011

NRA Life Member
CRPA Life Member
NRA Rifle Instructor
NRA Shotgun Instructor
NRA Range Safety Officer
DOJ Certified Instructor

Last edited by Ron-Solo; 02-09-2014 at 12:33 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-09-2014, 11:17 AM
whatwhy's Avatar
whatwhy whatwhy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 516
iTrader: 23 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-Solo View Post
Part 1

LASD has done this for years. The fee helps offset the time involved, but not much. The courts in LA require a certificate of correction to be issued due to fraud in the past. LASD figured out how much it was costing the department to process the certificate and set the fee accordingly. When I retired in 2011, the fee was $15.

Part 2

They don't "invade" neighborhoods but if an area is having a high numer of traffic incidents, it might get some saturation patrol, which has a definite impact on the number of accidents. It puts drivers on their best behavior when they see cars getting stopped everywhere.

Good chance you were stopped by a training car, with a trainee and training officer. Everyone has to learn how it's done, and doing it is the best way. LASD's field training program is generally 6 months once you are assigned to a station after working custody or the courts. That is in addition to a 16-18 week academy. (academy classes that run thru the holidays may go longer than 16 weeks because of said holidays and scheduling issues. The State POST requires a minimum number of instruction hours)
Awesome! Thanks for the very informative post. It definitely felt like a trainee trainer situation.
__________________

The materials and information contained above in this post are for informational purposes only and not for the purpose of providing legal advice. No attorney-client relationship is created by any interaction with the author of such materials and information.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-09-2014, 1:56 PM
RickD427's Avatar
RickD427 RickD427 is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: King County
Posts: 9,109
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-Solo View Post
Part 1

LASD has done this for years. The fee helps offset the time involved, but not much. The courts in LA require a certificate of correction to be issued due to fraud in the past. LASD figured out how much it was costing the department to process the certificate and set the fee accordingly. When I retired in 2011, the fee was $15.

Part 2

They don't "invade" neighborhoods but if an area is having a high numer of traffic incidents, it might get some saturation patrol, which has a definite impact on the number of accidents. It puts drivers on their best behavior when they see cars getting stopped everywhere.

Good chance you were stopped by a training car, with a trainee and training officer. Everyone has to learn how it's done, and doing it is the best way. LASD's field training program is generally 6 months once you are assigned to a station after working custody or the courts. That is in addition to a 16-18 week academy. (academy classes that run thru the holidays may go longer than 16 weeks because of said holidays and scheduling issues. The State POST requires a minimum number of instruction hours)
Ron,

You're absolutely right about the fraud issue. The old process didn't really have a good way of verifying that the signature on the "sign-off" block was really even a peace officer.

But I think the department was "Double-Dipping" on the sign off fee. Under Vehicle Code section 40611, portions of the $25.00 court fee get kicked back to local governmental agencies issuing the cite to cover their costs in administering the cite.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-09-2014, 8:32 AM
urbancommando urbancommando is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 876
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Ill do it for 10...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-09-2014, 5:19 PM
cruising7388 cruising7388 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,542
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancommando View Post
Ill do it for 10...
Do you offer a discount for seniors?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-09-2014, 11:19 AM
NuGunner NuGunner is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 886
iTrader: 44 / 100%
Default

Last I checked CHP doesn't charge a fee.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-09-2014, 11:26 AM
bluedsteel bluedsteel is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 649
iTrader: 71 / 100%
Default

If u go to a CHP office and tell them u fixed it, they come check it out and sign it for you. I did that and was not charged a fee.

Also, I was in Montebello. I stopped by and asked an officer to sign it. He said they usually charge but since i didnt live in that city, he signed it without fee.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-09-2014, 12:24 PM
jay_cue jay_cue is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,237
iTrader: 26 / 100%
Default

chp does not charge a fee.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-09-2014, 12:42 PM
whatwhy's Avatar
whatwhy whatwhy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 516
iTrader: 23 / 100%
Default

Sweet, thanks guys!
__________________

The materials and information contained above in this post are for informational purposes only and not for the purpose of providing legal advice. No attorney-client relationship is created by any interaction with the author of such materials and information.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-09-2014, 2:08 PM
Ron-Solo's Avatar
Ron-Solo Ron-Solo is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Classified
Posts: 8,581
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Default

Baca wouldn't let anything inappropriate go on within the Department.....
__________________
LASD Retired
1978-2011

NRA Life Member
CRPA Life Member
NRA Rifle Instructor
NRA Shotgun Instructor
NRA Range Safety Officer
DOJ Certified Instructor
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-09-2014, 4:10 PM
RickD427's Avatar
RickD427 RickD427 is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: King County
Posts: 9,109
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-Solo View Post
Baca wouldn't let anything inappropriate go on within the Department.....
Of course not, but maybe his staff didn't tell him.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-09-2014, 5:18 PM
retired retired is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Riverside County
Posts: 9,406
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
Of course not, but maybe his staff didn't tell him.
You forgot, as of the date you posted this, Baca doesn't have a staff anymore.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-09-2014, 5:57 PM
RickD427's Avatar
RickD427 RickD427 is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: King County
Posts: 9,109
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by retired View Post
You forgot, as of the date you posted this, Baca doesn't have a staff anymore.
Touche'
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-09-2014, 4:22 PM
ls2monaro's Avatar
ls2monaro ls2monaro is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 601
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Out in my area I have signed off dozens of tickets when asked nicely by people and I wasn't busy aka on my way to a call or eating lunch. I have never charged a fee of any sort; If I was busy working or eating I would just direct the person to the nearest police/sheriff/chp station.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-09-2014, 4:48 PM
whatwhy's Avatar
whatwhy whatwhy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 516
iTrader: 23 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
Ron,

You're absolutely right about the fraud issue. The old process didn't really have a good way of verifying that the signature on the "sign-off" block was really even a peace officer.

But I think the department was "Double-Dipping" on the sign off fee. Under Vehicle Code section 40611, portions of the $25.00 court fee get kicked back to local governmental agencies issuing the cite to cover their costs in administering the cite.
This is what I was trying to get at but couldn't really put into proper words late last night.

Also, interestingly, the officer that cited me told me, multiple times (because I kept asking "really?"), that he (PD) could not sign off the ticket that he gave me, only CHP and the Sheriff's Department could. I looked up VC 40616 and sure enough, it says that any of the following can sign off, which includes the PD (I called a few offices to check and they all said they could, including the department where this particular officer worked for):

"Any violation may be certified as corrected by a police department, the California Highway Patrol, sheriff, marshal, or other law enforcement agency regularly engaged in enforcement of the Vehicle Code."

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d17/vc40616.htm

Not *****ing about it or anything, I wonder what made the officer think that his department couldn't sign off on it (other than he was probably new).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ls2monaro View Post
Out in my area I have signed off dozens of tickets when asked nicely by people and I wasn't busy aka on my way to a call or eating lunch. I have never charged a fee of any sort; If I was busy working or eating I would just direct the person to the nearest police/sheriff/chp station.
Is this as of recently? Ron-Solo made it sound like there is some sort of certificate that comes with it now. Last time this happened (5+ years ago), I had an officer sign it for me in a random parking lot, he was kind enough to do it and I went off on my way.
__________________

The materials and information contained above in this post are for informational purposes only and not for the purpose of providing legal advice. No attorney-client relationship is created by any interaction with the author of such materials and information.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-09-2014, 4:57 PM
RickD427's Avatar
RickD427 RickD427 is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: King County
Posts: 9,109
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whatwhy View Post
This is what I was trying to get at but couldn't really put into proper words late last night.

Also, interestingly, the officer that cited me told me, multiple times (because I kept asking "really?"), that he (PD) could not sign off the ticket that he gave me, only CHP and the Sheriff's Department could. I looked up VC 40616 and sure enough, it says that any of the following can sign off, which includes the PD (I called a few offices to check and they all said they could, including the department where this particular officer worked for):

"Any violation may be certified as corrected by a police department, the California Highway Patrol, sheriff, marshal, or other law enforcement agency regularly engaged in enforcement of the Vehicle Code."

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d17/vc40616.htm

Not *****ing about it or anything, I wonder what made the officer think that his department couldn't sign off on it (other than he was probably new).



Is this as of recently? Ron-Solo made it sound like there is some sort of certificate that comes with it now. Last time this happened (5+ years ago), I had an officer sign it for me in a random parking lot, he was kind enough to do it and I went off on my way.
The key word in CVC section 40616 is "may". The agency is not required to sign off on corrections. Several years ago, my agency permitted us to sign off on notices in the field and we did so by signing our name, and listing our agency and serial number. The problem came up with fraud. When the citation was returned to the court, it was impossible to determine if I had signed it off, or if some other person having knowledge of my agency and serial number had done so. By having only designated personnel doing the sign-offs, and affixing a stampt to the cite, the instances of fraud were reduced.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-09-2014, 5:26 PM
qdx450 qdx450 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: way south
Posts: 416
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

its all BS, a way to get more money to the PD. because if you know a cop he'll sign it off free. **** my son has a friend that charges $10 for his dad to sign them.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-09-2014, 8:21 PM
Ron-Solo's Avatar
Ron-Solo Ron-Solo is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Classified
Posts: 8,581
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Default

This varies greatly by County. As I stated earlier, LA County courts now require the LE certification form because of fraud. Riverside and San Bernardino county courts do not.

Many PD's chose not to hassle with it.
__________________
LASD Retired
1978-2011

NRA Life Member
CRPA Life Member
NRA Rifle Instructor
NRA Shotgun Instructor
NRA Range Safety Officer
DOJ Certified Instructor
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-09-2014, 11:11 PM
vgourdik vgourdik is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: San Gabriel Valley
Posts: 836
iTrader: 65 / 100%
Default

**** my son has a friend that charges $10 for his dad to sign them.
Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message

I would be careful with what I post.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-10-2014, 7:40 AM
softscrubb's Avatar
softscrubb softscrubb is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 550
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

A fee for signing off a fix-it ticket is new to me. I have never heard of that. In San Diego there is zero charge for signing off a traffic cite. I just suggest you go to a station instead of flagging a cop down or walking up on him during a call since you do not know the particulars and it might be an unsafe situation they are working.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
Stop the thread, I want to get off.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-10-2014, 8:14 AM
mixicus mixicus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 624
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

CVC states "may" not "shall". A department's policy is likely more restrictive and does not allow officers to sign off in the field. The policy may state sign-offs are done at the front counter or by specific staff (traffic division).
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-10-2014, 11:40 AM
Mason McDuffie's Avatar
Mason McDuffie Mason McDuffie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 1,102
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

My agency allows us to sign and doesn't charge. Although my previous agency assigned a fee. Not sure how they got away with that. As for the getting pulled over, FTOs typically know cherry spots where VC violations are an abundance.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-10-2014, 6:45 PM
Ron-Solo's Avatar
Ron-Solo Ron-Solo is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Classified
Posts: 8,581
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Default

One of the government or civil codes (I don't remember which) allows for a fee, but most courts outside of LA don't require a certificate and just allow any officer to sign the back. LASD didn't charges fee until the courts in LA started requiring the certificate, which costs the Department to process and track.
__________________
LASD Retired
1978-2011

NRA Life Member
CRPA Life Member
NRA Rifle Instructor
NRA Shotgun Instructor
NRA Range Safety Officer
DOJ Certified Instructor
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-10-2014, 8:37 PM
tahoetarga's Avatar
tahoetarga tahoetarga is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: San Jose
Posts: 269
iTrader: 22 / 100%
Default

I was in Morgan Hill PD before the New Year. Looking at their list of fees (from collision reports to fingerprinting) was the fee for signing off a correctable violation...I'd look for an officer in the field (unless they have a policy that you can only get them signed at the station...)
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-10-2014, 9:12 PM
WARDOG's Avatar
WARDOG WARDOG is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kalifornia Kwitter Klub, Mt. Idaho, IDAHO
Posts: 163
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

SO many agencies are trying to fill the budget gaps however they can, and if the law allows. CHP used to charge $10 to sign off, while us small town Dept's did for free. However, the officer signing off never collected the fee. Reduce the fraud. The counterperson took the money and gave a receipt.
__________________
The people of the United States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.
- Abraham Lincoln
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 9:25 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy