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Shotgun discussions Trap, Hunting, Defense and more. A place for enthusiasts to discuss the shotgun. |
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#41
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Pressure tested 7383 with heavy powder load.
870 gr with 128 gr of 7383-- All that could be put in REM plastic and keep length to what would feed from magazine of a 3" gun, after it was roll crimped with tool in drillpress. 1513 fps-- 14700 psi. That is a slug 50% heavier than factory Buckhammer at little faster speed and at little less pressure. Ignition perfect, cases fall out. Love that $3 a lb powder.Ed |
#42
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Geeze, how much does a NEF cost, or any other good shotguns to use for these hot loads?
__________________
"It is plain and simple if our regular law abiding population is forced to be unarmed we will then fall victim to prey as those with arms will become our predators." |
#43
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Ok, it was a large slug.. What use is it? How much recoil did it create?
That powder is specifically a very slow powder and I'm kind of surprised that you were able to ignite it, but with that heavy of a projectile, I guess you were able to make it work out. A standard one ounce slug (437.5 gr) has a standard velocity of about 1600 fps making approx 2480 ft/lb of energy. 14,700 is approaching the limits of a shotshell chamber, I'd prefer to keep mine under 12000 psi regardless of action type. 4422 ft/lbs is not too shabby if you can get it reliably. How many rounds have you fired or was this a one off thing? Last edited by sargenv; 07-09-2007 at 7:05 AM.. |
#44
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NEF Ultra slug gun is about 230 bucks. Now our loads are only for
modern alloy steel barrel guns, with medium to heavy barrels, Our 14700 psi loads are little less than REM factory Buckhammer loads sold to guys with modern guns for deer, hogs, bear, etc. Most 3" magnum goose loads in 12ga are between 13-15,000 psi. Modern plastic shotshells handle our and buckhammer loads fine. We have fired many loads, no problem. The pressure testing company has fired loads of over 25k psi and cases extract easy. It depends on type of powder with real fast shotgun powders causing more expansion at lower peak pressure than other slower due to the sharp pressure spike affecting case before slug moves. That powder though being slow on the chart within its working range, is quite porous and bulky which allows for easy ignition. Now that powder if run over its range of about 40k will go crazy. Its powder sticks are porous like the 4759, only a little longer sticks. As for heavy slug, recoil negligible in my NEF due to it being weighted to 15 lbs. Now my NEF chamber is long for our long case and hairy loads in long brass case do get interesting.Ed |
#46
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Terminator gun...
__________________
"It is plain and simple if our regular law abiding population is forced to be unarmed we will then fall victim to prey as those with arms will become our predators." |
#47
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With NEF. Plastic cases, roll crimped slug
in drillpress. 82gr IMR 4227 1650 fps, with 730gr, 78 gr 4227 with 800gr, 1600. Expansion on cases show little more pressure as full loads of 4759 and 600gr. Ignition perfect with small primers. Ejects cases fine. Burns clean. Got a GEHA bolt 12ga to put a heavier rifled barrel on to test. Ed |
#48
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Tested 870 gr in NEF with our long
brass case with big primer.I have NEF with extra hammer spring for big primer. Got 2000 fps and still able to extract case. Would do little more, extractor needs to be wider and set up positive. Used 260gr of WC-860 and MagPro. Could use RL-22, Rl-25, Retumbo, etc. That's 7700 ft lbs.. I get 600 gr slug to 2300 plus in NEF, long case. so you can go light or heavy.Ed |
#49
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More testing with 4227. Greg got little over 1500 fps in
3" plastic with 870 gr slug using 74-75 gr of 4227. I did the same. Compared to much lighter REM Buckhammer slug we have more speed. Almost all the way through 5 ft bundle hardwood boards. I have Mossy 695 as well as GEHA 12 gauge to put heavy rifled barrels on. And my 87. Will be checking Mossy 395 for a guy who wants to put on a heavy barrel. Here is pic of 695 Mossberg bolt action,with dinky barrel, and big rifled long barrel for it. |
#50
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You should get in touch with "The Box O' Truth" guys and have them test penetration with THAT thing...
I bet there isn't too much "bullet resistant" stuff compared to THAT round! Ive been following this development since the first posts were made on other boards....very cool! J P.S. Could you make a thinner profile barrel after the chamber to make it a little lighter, and could it be made with say a 22" barrel instead of a 30" ??? |
#51
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The barrel could be thinner toward the muzzle,
but not less than an inch.The pressure curve of these powders we are using needs barrels with thickness like rifle barrels. Barrel could be shortened, but you get much more muzzle blast and losing the weight more recoil. The barrel in pic with mossberg is 1.35" diameter, and matches the diameter of the reciever, Ed |
#52
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I tested in NEF, 3" cases, Alliant 2400 with
small primers, Fired ok at 75 deg but when case cooled there was majority of misfires and squib loads. Don't reccomend it.. That is also a test we do, cooling the load. Here is picture of Mauser 12ga bolt action GEHA next to a heavy barrel like I will put on it.. Make a good slug gun.......It had the thinnest barrel on any 12ga I've ever seen.Ed |
#53
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The 12GA From Hell, 700HE, and
700HE 3.25" is now on Ammoguide, the last page of cartridge list.Ed http://ammoguide.com/?catid=611 |
#55
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Tankerman-- IN early part of thread is pics od
exploding 6 gallon water pail. Rob with his gun and scope can stick them in one ragged hole at 50 yds. With Savage and peep sights and bad eyes I can get 4 inch group. Some will be tried on deer this fall, no hogs here.Ed. |
#56
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Quote:
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#57
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Why wouldn't you just use a .458 Lott or .458 Win Mag? They offer similar ballistics/stopping power without worrying about blowing up some home-brewed gun. Have your rifles been used for any practical application yet?
Last edited by heavyrecoil; 09-18-2007 at 8:13 AM.. |
#58
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We just like big bores, not medium ones.
Applcations so far are big holes easy to see, and a few shotgun only hunters getting the power of a 458 for their shooting uses. We tested 3.5" plastic cases in NEF, small primers. My chamber is lengthened for our long brass case, so they work fine..... With 600 gr slug, 105 gr of IMR 4227, got 2100. Same slug, 180 gr, 7383 surplus, got 2100 fps. That's 5800 ft lbs from plastic shotgun cases.Ed |
#59
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Tested 600gr slug in 3.5" plastic case, got 2100 fps.
That is 5800 ft lbs from a plastic 12 ga case load. Here is the Enfield I reamed out to feed 12 gauge and BMG size cases. I added two rear bolt locking lugs, one the huge bolt handle and another added that locks in rear bridge. The front lugs still contact on their top 40 %. This is concept from earlier shown Mauser shotgun conversions, where they were made from 98 Mausers, giving a bolt action 12ga.This one is chambered for my belted 700H 3.25" case, as a load developement test gun. Loads up to 825 gr at 2500 so far. Ed |
#62
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It is the 8GA From Hell, a real cartridge. 4.3 inch long
brass case. 8 ga shorter plastic case, plan on in same chamber. The brass kiln gun case isn't as long as mine. Where do you find the rare 8 ga brass kiln gun cases. Looking now for guns or actions and barrels. I make it from 20mm Suzy brass(20mm Hispano Suiza), by putting on a 8ga size rim and reshaping like we did 12GA FH....Ed |
#63
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8ga, we gonna do a couple, first one a test
gun in an Enfield with rear locking lugs added. All locking is in the rear, it is not exactly like my 700HE one,as both lug seats gone in the front like a Mauser 12ga shotgun. May have a way to get barrels 'fast'--- fast being like 2 weeks, from the time I have money to do it. And only about 150 bucks each.......Am working on it. In pic you see long case sticking out of the action, a couple 8ga plastic cases, a couple of the 8ga kiln slugs, 3 oz and hardened. Am looking for a slug built like the Federal 10 ga one that has rounded nose and hollow base, that fits bore tight, for smoothbore. The barrels I am working deal on will be smoothbore.Ed |
#65
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Got an 8ga barrel blank being made now,
will be here end of the week.Found this info on plastic 8ga kiln gun loads, they load a frangible 710gr slug at 2300- for 8300ft lbs, load 1275gr hard slug to 1700, 8100 ft lbs. We will outdo those easy with our non-shotgun powder loads, in a heavy barrel. We setup an Enfield for 8ga. In the 87 long barreled gun we will be testing Breneke slugs. Guys are reporting good accuracy in smooth and rifled barrels. The pictured barrel on 87 is smooth and we will see how the slugs in pic stand some speed.Ed |
#66
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Tested 35" smooth barrel in 1887. Got couple
1 oz foster slugs over 2400, with 110gr of 4227. 3" plastic case, regular primers. This is a heavy barrel for that type of load, don't do this in your 12ga skinny barrels. The 28GA FH cases on the way.Chambering bolt gun for it now..Ed |
#67
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In the 87 long smooth barrel got
1 oz Brenneke to 2400 with 110gr of 4227, You could use 4759 and VV110 also at lesser amounts. Barrel is cylinder bore size. Brenneke slugs need no wads as the locked on wad works good.Ed And going heavier in 87 got 600 grain Dixie over 2000, got a Buckhammer slug I took out of factory load over 1900. Buckhammer and locked on wad is 630 gr. Tested in 3" plastic cases. The firing pin on the 87 didn't protude out like I like them to as it comes from factory, so I removed .015 from the hammer stop. It fires big and small primers perfect.Ed |
#68
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10GA FH..a NEF 10ga, medium to heavy wt smooth barrel.
28" long, gun weighted to 14lbs. Factory FED 765gr loads are 1300 fps. 200 gr of first powder tested is 7383 surplus and the regular shotgun primers got 765 gr to 1600, for 4300 ft lbs. Case won't hold anymore 7383. Federal factory hollowbase slug is .025" smaller than 10ga bore. I bumped it up to the .775" size, by expanding hollow base. With 7383 that gave another 150 fps.Fast starting shotgun powders expand base better than much slower 7383. The Federal factory load has 120gr of wads/seals about 1.4" long. Better to replace with much more slower powder, getting better velocity, still at low shotgun pressures.Ed We will test 4227 with the same slug , and saboted slug of some design. We roll crimped with crimper in drill press. Case expansion with 7383 very little(.006") like the factory loads. 3.5" plastic.Used one .050 wad.Ed |
#69
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Quote:
__________________
07 FFL Woodland, CA please call Norse Armory 530-661-0900 for all questions regarding the gun shop. you can also email me direct at MValentine@norsearmory.net |
#70
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In 10GA NEF 110gr 4227 got 765gr slug
to 1800, ejected ok. If it was a really heavy barrel it could do more. Starting load 90gr. In Using the 7383 surplus at 150 gr, don't even have to resize to fire 3 times. The 28GA FH done and testing in next couple weeks.Ed |
#71
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Fired 28GA FH-- Cases extract easy.--It is
in bolt action Enfield. With 550gr jkt slug, full load 150 gr of WC-860, got 1900 fps. This will be slowest load and powder. In picture is 3.25" brass 28ga cases, regular 28ga plastic case, jkt slugs, a 458Win for comparison.Regular cases work also.Ed |
#72
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28ga cases are made by Rocky Mtn Cartridge,
Barrel is rifled with 4 grooves, 1-22 twist. You could do one on Savage 210.Another shotgun bolt action that would handle it with little work, heavy barrel, is the 395-495-595-695 bolt action Mossberg. Just to show that 28GA FH isn't puny, here is picture of it next to a 505 Gibbs.Ed |
#73
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Here is picture and info on Royal
Arms' site for hopped up 12ga loads, used in little cannons for bomb work. Anyone got any of these fired that I could inspect to see how they are built.ED http://www.royalarms.com/EOD/ammo/canonammo.gif |
#74
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I like the Savage 210 so I'm putting
a 700 barrel on one and chambering for my 700H 3.25 case. Working on it now. It is a straight belted case, .700 cal. Should get the same energy levels as the 12GA From Hell case in same action. In pic is 700H case in the action. There is guy building a 600 Nitro in 210 also. Ed |
#75
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28GA FH research. Guy on forums suggested using 54cal
rifled barrels for 28ga as they are easy to get. I looked into it and did some testing. It is ok as long as you keep bullet about 400gr as most 54cal barrels are not super alloy. You got to use the thick heavy ones also, being stronger. And everyone with 28ga wants slugs and there is no slug loads from factory, and to reload the heavier bullets we shouldn't use these barrels or regular 28ga barrels with 600-700 gr slugs. But there are couple dozen 54cal bullets out there stocked all over the gunstore shelves, in weights from 300 to 450 gr. There are heavier but for 28GA FH on deer 400gr is great. I tested the 405 gr copper plated Powerbelt brand, with velocities from 2300 to 2800 plus fps. That's 6500 ft lbs. The 54cal slugs load tight in the RMC 3.25" 28ga case fine by sizing top a little tighter. Bullet obturates to fit .550 bore as bullet is hitting target straight. A lot of 54cal barrels go from 530 to 560. 54cal slugs range from .534 to .560" There are different sizes of 28ga barrels and chokes, so some where there is lighter 54cal slug that fits.. And with light slugs the pressure limits with the MRC brass match top muzzle loading pressures, so these barrels will work. And great thing is the 54cal barrel guys ain't allergic to making long barrels. I've shot one MRC case 15 times and still going strong...Ed |
#76
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28GA FH testing. 405 gr in 2.75" plastic case
got 1400. Tested the Great Plains 54cal lubed slug, runs from 2200 to 2700. It is by Hornady and its front band actually measures .550" and hollowbase. They hit target straight. Got a bunch of 415gr hollowbase coming that are 548" from Dixie Gunworks. Only 26 cents each. All will work in plastic or long brass case. I found another .550 bbl and coming, and it will go on a Mossberg bolt action for the second 28GA FH to test.. Ed |
#77
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tested the 415 gr hollowbase slugs in 28GA FH long
brass case. These are ones that Dixie Gunworks sell that they call their Sharps .548" slug. They all run about .008 bigger than that so they make perfect tight fit for .550" barrel, and I used a good lube on them in the grooves. They are a little harder alloy slug than the Powerbelts or Great Plains The 28ga shellholder for our Lee, Lyman, Rcbs presses , we use, is from RCBS for regular metallic press rams. For 28ga dies Hollywood made some for metallic presses.Also for sizing for bottom 2/3 of the brass case you can cut top off of the 500J die.The slower powder loads don't even have to have the bottom half sized, which is great for a turned case. If we had drawn brass cases we could get 11,000 ft lbs, in the Enfield, which we don't really need for deer. 4-6000 ft lbs ok/deer ..Ed |
#78
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Here is picture of a jacketed hollowpoint
12ga slug a fellow is going to make for us. We hope to have tooling set up this summer we plan on. Next to it is a 600gr Dixie hardened slug. First ones he will probably make will be about 700-750 gr.Ed |
#79
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In the 87 Win Levergun, smooth barrel,
long barrel, using brass RMC 3" cases, 1 oz Brenneke KO slug to 2700 with 4227 powder. Shotgun primer. I will be getting some 3.5" RMC brass that he will put a special longer corner radius in, to allow faster loads with less case expansion and easier resizing. Should get same slug to 3000 and resize easier also. With shotgun primer able to use 4227, and you WON"T have to rework hammer or firing pin to do big primers. Santa sent me 9 more PROP cases.Got 12 now.Ed |
#80
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Why go with a JHP? A 12 gauge slug already leaves a hell of a hole. Seems like hardcast would be much less expensive
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