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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#121
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They said the total ban was unconstitutional but that doesn't mean the court will just say "180 days are up, no carry laws, carry guns openly or concealed even into state prisons." If that was the case the repubs could use this as an opportunity to seriously repeal virtually every gun law on the books with the threat of just letting constitutional carry be the law of Illinois.
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"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, but let me remind you also that moderation in the persuit of justice is no virtue" -Barry Goldwater “Remember that a government big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take away everything you have.” -Gerald Ford ^ |
#122
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Every time they try that crap they just piss off the courts more and tighten the noose around their own neck.
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"Freedom begins with an act of defiance" Quote for the day: Quote:
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#123
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Call me an optimist but I feel compelled to update my pre-completed California Concealed Carry application....
Correct me if I'm wrong but if the 9th Circuit rules in a similar fashion, we should all be lining up orderly and single file at the Sheriff's office, right?
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"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." - Claire Wolfe |
#124
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Folks,
Courts don't get to write laws - only strike them. The law that would be struck on day 181 is the law that makes it a crime to carry a loaded handgun openly or concealed. If there is no new law passed or if the Governor vetos a good law, Illinois becomes Vermont. Yes really - as a matter of law. -Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#125
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I was responding prematurely to the language that described the NY statute as more moderate than the Illinois ban. I initially took that as approval. Having now read the decision, I see that the majority was disapproving (if a bit gently) of the NY decision. I do wish the criticism were more forceful, but at least the panel's disagreement is in the text.
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www.christopherjhoffman.com The Second Amendment is the one right that is so fundamental that the inability to exercise it, should the need arise, would render all other rights null and void. Dead people have no rights. Magna est veritas et praevalebit |
#126
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Oh boy wouldn't that be fun!
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"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." - Claire Wolfe |
#127
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Ok, dumb question. With this decision being pretty clear in stating that carry is a right outside the home will it have any impact in the legislation requiring states to honor each others CCW permits? Will this perhaps give the legislation a push over the hump so a Florida permit is good in XXXXX state?
Of course this is all for legislation consideration after we Thelma and Louise off the "fiscal cliff"
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Support CalGuns by purchasing stuff through this Amazon link: http://www.shop42a.com |
#128
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#129
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Like all generalizations, there are exceptions to the above. For example, Posner and Scalia have little love for each other. |
#130
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#131
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I think give it several more years after all states have gone shall-issue/ConCarry, etc and it just becomes more accepted most states will prolly realize its more of a pain in the arse to try and micromanage it and it will go the way of a drivers license, you just have to have one from somewhere.
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"Freedom begins with an act of defiance" Quote for the day: Quote:
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#132
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"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, but let me remind you also that moderation in the persuit of justice is no virtue" -Barry Goldwater “Remember that a government big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take away everything you have.” -Gerald Ford ^ |
#133
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__________________
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, but let me remind you also that moderation in the persuit of justice is no virtue" -Barry Goldwater “Remember that a government big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take away everything you have.” -Gerald Ford ^ |
#134
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The antis have at least one card to play from my estimation. Without a state shall issue law, I think Chicago can create their own ccw system, which would only pretend to be fair. The pro gunnies need to get the shall issue law passed with language to prevent that, unless I'm wrong.
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#135
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#136
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Ok, quickly now, back to the topic : This decision may be all the cover that the Il legislature needs to finally act on shall-issue. if they're smart, they'll just do it and blame it on the court, if they must.
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www.christopherjhoffman.com The Second Amendment is the one right that is so fundamental that the inability to exercise it, should the need arise, would render all other rights null and void. Dead people have no rights. Magna est veritas et praevalebit |
#137
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Ten months ago I speculated that we had a decent chance to win carry in the Appellate Courts. It sure feels good to have another win.
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#138
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#139
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"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, but let me remind you also that moderation in the persuit of justice is no virtue" -Barry Goldwater “Remember that a government big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take away everything you have.” -Gerald Ford ^ |
#140
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Yes, it IS written so that an Ordinary Mortal can read/understand it. That's pretty unusual for an Appellate Court. And, yes, it is especially gratifying that it was a pure a 2A case. No dancing around at all. As for references to Kachalski, it delivered as big a smack-down to the 2nd Circuit as one Circuit gets with another. Clearly written to be a Circuit split. Which we're going to have & need. Because all of the speculation about what kind of law the Ill. legislature will write is meaningless. Rahm is the mayor & so Rahm will make the decision as to whether to appeal or not. You can bet your lungs on it; he'll appeal. Which (as was the case with Heller & McDonald) is going to be a good thing for us. The reasoning here may or may not help with the PRK carry cases. Nothing here is binding, but it is persuasive. If the 9th goes along, we'll still have a split because of the 2nd Circuit. There's not a lot of time for anything to affect the reciprocity Bill. But, it MAY provide 'cover' to those on the fence IF it does come to a vote. I especially liked the bit about how the other 49 states do things. Nothing here will matter to the PRK legislature, but the gong has been sounded; crap that applies in one state only ain't gonna fly for much longer. Its not often that that I laugh out loud while reading Appellate Court Opinions, but this one giot me doing so twice: I'm with randomBytes in liking the reference to slashing a "Santa with Elves" painting. But my favorite was the reference to sex on the sidewalk. THAT one is definite keeper. It supported the logic of that part of the Finding AND was real damn funny. The Raisuli Now, where is KCBrown to tell us all why this is really just a massive loss?
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"Ignorance is a steep hill with perilous rocks at the bottom" WTB: 9mm cylinder for Taurus Mod. 85 |
#141
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What an unmititgated win this was! As IrishPirate has already said - SUCK IT ANTIS. This is the smackdown we've all been waiting for since Heller. All those *****footing lower courts, all those let downs and 1-steps-forward-and-3-steps-back, all those lying, conniving, cowardly anti-gun judges - and finally a panel steps up and stops the BS. How is it that only the 7th circuit has judges with integrity??
Good lord, I feel great. What a great day!
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member: Electronic Frontier Foundation, NRA, CGF Deer Hunting Rifles? "Let's get rid of those too" - Adam Keigwin, Chief of Staff for Senator Leland Yee |
#142
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Earlier in the thread someone posted that Hawaii dismissed. But I see some evidence that plaintiff in the Hawaii case has filed supplemental authority citing Moore v. Madigan. So, any confirmation on the dismissal?
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#143
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For their sake at least, I don't live there. (on a side note, I just saw in my work e-mail the title "IT Alert: Illinois Office" and for some reason checked it in case it was relevant lol, nope just internal stuff haha) Last edited by stix213; 12-11-2012 at 2:19 PM.. |
#144
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Only chicago
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They can draft legislation all day but outside of Chicago sheriffs will grant CCW all day long. Back when they tried to make it a law the had the full support of most of the sheriffs outside of Chicago and even volunteered to hold trial CCW's in Peoria (central IL). Rock On !!!!!
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NRA LIFE MEMBER VFW LIFEMEMBER |
#145
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That's my take as well. So, being that this is how things work, I have a question for all those gloating about how gunnies can now force the Ill. legislature to write a decent "Shall Issue" CCW law: Why would you want to? No new law on the books means that Constitutional Carry becomes the law of the land in the Land of Lincoln. Giving Ill. residents the freest possible exercise of the Right. Why on earth would any decent gunnie want anything less than that? The Raisuli
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"Ignorance is a steep hill with perilous rocks at the bottom" WTB: 9mm cylinder for Taurus Mod. 85 |
#146
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We may not, but legislators will.
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Matthew D. Van Norman Dancing Giant Sales | Licensed Firearms Dealer | Rainier, WA |
#147
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#148
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"Freedom begins with an act of defiance" Quote for the day: Quote:
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#149
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That's NOT what their laws or voting record indicate.
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#150
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This just arrived in my mailbox from NRL-ILA:
"The National Rifle Association is funding this case. The Illinois State Rifle Association is a co-plaintiff in this case." What was SAF's involvement?
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#151
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What I'm saying is a legislator is going to get more of what *he* wants by horsetrading a little while assembling a bill.
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== The price of freedom is eternal litigation. == |
#152
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#153
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Alan Gura's oral argument at CA7: http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/moo...2012-06-08.mp3 -Brandon
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Brandon Combs I do not read private messages, and my inbox is usually full. If you need to reach me, please email me instead. My comments are not the official position or a statement of any organization unless stated otherwise. My comments are not legal advice; if you want or need legal advice, hire a lawyer. |
#154
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interesting, what if.
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Let's say they see the writing on the wall and just figure it is a lost cause, isn't Judge Posner the Chief Justice of the 7th, and they don't appeal, now what? What if our side did nothing for 181 days except say no unless the carry bill was really good, then the state would be in non compliance. So, here is my question. If the court didn't tell Illinois outright that their weapon's carry bans are now void, could someone file a injunction against their enforcement under the following terms. Individuals who have any of the following can carry loaded openly or concealed. 1. A firearms owners ID card. 2. Valid CCW permit from any state. Sensitive zones will be defined as the following. Secure areas of airports Jails, prisons, court houses, Legislative bodies, School grounds with exception of parking lots so that parents can pick up and drop of children. School employees can store personal arms in their cars. Schools defined as K to 12, not universities or colleges. Private businesses can make establishments no carry and they can ask people who are armed to leave. Refusal to leave then becomes tress pass. Require that carriers notify police officers that they are armed if their is an encounter. Allow police to verify with probable cause that a person is not a prohibited person.. Still allow enforcement of all gun laws related to criminals. Nicki |
#155
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Proud to belong to the NRA Members' Council of Santa Clara County Disclaimer: All opinions are entirely my own. |
#156
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And since the current panel gave them the 180 days to fix their laws, the en banc court might figure that if they rule within 120 days that Illinois only gets another 60 days to fix their laws? This could be a very difficult thing for them. Quote:
I'm probably not saying it right. . . But the law was found to be unconstitutional and thus has been struck down. If you buy something on credit you owe the money immediately. But according to the terms you may not actually have to make a payment for several months and you may not have to finally make good on the full amount due for years. But you owe the money immediately.
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CGN's token life-long teetotaling vegetarian. Don't consider anything I post as advice or as anything more than opinion (if even that). |
#157
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Does that mean ff they decide to go for en-banc, it means they are confident they can win at minimum an injunction on the 180 limit and/or some sort of guarantee of the clock being put on hold?
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#158
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So...someone explain to me how it is that Illinois gets the honest judges, when you consider the pool from which they're selected?
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"If a person who indulges in gluttony is a glutton, and a person who commits a felony is a felon, then God is an iron."--Spider Robinson. "It is a ghastly but tenable proposition that the world is now ruled by the insane, whose increasing plurality will, in a few more generations, make probable the incarceration of all sane people born among them."--Clark Ashton Smith "Every time a pro-terrorist Tranzi hangs, an angel gets his wings."--Tom Kratman |
#160
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Someone asked if Chicago could create its own prohibition.
I don't think so. The original complaint asked for Quote:
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. Last edited by Librarian; 12-11-2012 at 3:40 PM.. |
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