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Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner. |
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#41
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Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2 |
#42
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You can repair legally owned hi-cap mags that were possessed BEFORE THE BAN. BX-25's were not in existance before the ban. Read this: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...-cap+magazines Second sentence in point #4. Dan |
#43
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YOU ARE WRONG! Is THAT clear enough for you? You have a post count of four, and both of them in this forum are WRONG. Nonsense like his gives me a Popsicle headache! Quote:
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LASD Retired 1978-2011 NRA Life Member CRPA Life Member NRA Rifle Instructor NRA Shotgun Instructor NRA Range Safety Officer DOJ Certified Instructor Last edited by Ron-Solo; 06-13-2012 at 2:57 PM.. |
#44
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Maybe try reading the thread you posted http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...8&postcount=11 Post 11 Quote:
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2 Last edited by Baconator; 06-13-2012 at 1:29 PM.. |
#48
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I spent over $300 the morning I had to trade my active LE identification for my retired identification. I even bought some for guns I don't yet own, but are on my list to buy.
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LASD Retired 1978-2011 NRA Life Member CRPA Life Member NRA Rifle Instructor NRA Shotgun Instructor NRA Range Safety Officer DOJ Certified Instructor |
#49
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Okay, let me step back a bit and ask Ron-Solo for some assistance in understanding something that I am obviously not seeing. Let's see if we can resolve this.
As a Life Member in both NRA and CRPA, I spend a considerable amount of time attempting to understand the dizzying complexity of California's gun laws. I do so in an attempt to be legal in all I do with firearms as a native Californian, having lived here for 58 of my 62 years. I'm no lawyer and it isn't easy but I do my best. I have looked at the Penal Code, studied the annual "Summary of California Gun Laws and Basic Safety Rules" that CRPA sends out each year and have studied the positions and descriptions that this forum has published to assist us in understanding the California Gun Laws as well, especially the link that I included in my post above. So, here is my question that I cannot find an answer to: How can I (as well as the OP) being non-LEO, non specially licensed FFL, possibly be in legal possession of a Ruger BX-25 magazine? They were just introduced earlier this year, I could not have owned one prior to the 1-1-2000 cutoff date. As I understand it, any hi-cap magazine acquired after 1-1-2000 would have to have been acquired in an an illegal transaction. One must have been in possession of the hi-cap magazine prior to 1-1-2000 in order to be in legal possession of it today and they were not available then. So, how can I be in legal possession of a BX-25 in California (non-LEO, non specially licensed FFL)? Thanks for your help in understanding this, I appreciate it. Dan |
#50
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Let me take a stab at this,
I have had a 10-22 for 30 years, I have a number of the hotlips 25 round mags, (they are crap) Ruger has come out with the new 25 round mags, I want to replace one of my old mags with the new one from ruger so I order a rebuld kit and use it to replace my old one (if I have 5 25round mag's and order one more I need to destroy the one I am replacing I still have 5 mags) for my 30 round AR mags I have all the old ones that I have replaced with Pmags I just flatten them with a hammer. Quote:
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#51
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1. I have an older 25 rd mag for my 10/22 that has a bad follower
2. I buy a BX-25 rebuild kit from a local store, on line' or gun show. 3. I replace the bad follower with one from the kit I still only have one functioning magazine, and some extra parts 4. I decide that the mag body and spring should be replaced, so I swap those out. 5. Eventually, I swap out all the old parts with new parts. 6. I finish with one functioning magazine that sys BX-25 on it and a bunch of worn out parts. 7. I dispose of all the worn out parts. 8. I have the same number of magazines that I started with. 100% legal for ANYONE to do this, LE or regular Joe. LE doesn't have to worry about it, but us retired LE fall into the regular Joe category as far as mags are concerned. The same is true of PMags, which were not around before 1-1-2000 either.
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LASD Retired 1978-2011 NRA Life Member CRPA Life Member NRA Rifle Instructor NRA Shotgun Instructor NRA Range Safety Officer DOJ Certified Instructor |
#52
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And this is where my misunderstanding came from. It sounds to me as though you are "manufacturing" a BX-25 by using all of the repair parts in the repair kit to basically build a new mag from scratch and toss the parts of the old mag. This still leaves you with the same "number" of 25 round magazines in possession but sounds a bit like a "shell game" to me.
I know it's a fine line and open to interpretation. It would seem to me that whatever old 25 round magazines that existed before 1-1-2000 were of a different design and model type than the BX-25 and parts would not be interchangeable. A sharp LEO that knows the law well (like the CHP Officer in the OP's original post) would call the ownership into question. It just seems more like a grey area to me and possibly a bit risky. Thanks for your clarification though I'm still a bit confused. Dan |
#53
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I understand the theory but in practice, are all the parts from the different mags interchangeable? If not, then how would you use the BX-25 parts to repair Hot Lips or Pmags to replace GI mags.
The other assertion made by a previous post was that whatever you owned legally before the ban was your "lifetime" cap on how many you can have. You can have more but you can't ever exceed what you had over your limit. While true, it doesn't mean you can assemble one out of completely new parts and destroy the old one.
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I like guns |
#54
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Sent from my evil Apple iPad using Tapatalk |
#55
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So if you had a Thermold mag that broke, and there are no other mags that you can cannibalize, you can't just assemble a Pmag out of a kit and call it a day. That would also apply if you just had a mag destroyed, like if you just had an Orlite blown up to pieces... how do you repair that? Assemble a completely new one? You can claim you replaced it bit by bit and made a new one, but it's a dangerous shell game. I don't even feel very comfortable with the concept that you are repairing and replacing every single component until 100% of the magazine has been replaced with brand new parts so that nothing of the old magazine remains. I guess if it is the same mag, like you just had 1 GI mag and you bought the same GI mag components over and over and kept rebuilding the same mag with GI mag components, that's okay. But the people that claim they use Pmag parts to repair GI mags until there is no more GI mag and everything is Pmag... it would appear that scenario would be a shell game.
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I like guns Last edited by Notorious; 06-13-2012 at 6:21 PM.. |
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Back to the CalCop post, just having a case doesn't mean you have a gun....
Okay, If i stop a guy holding a crack pipe (ignore the pipe a paraphernalia), I'm assuming he's got rock. If I stop a car that has a pistol case, I'm assuming he has a pistol. At minimum I can ask. It's reasonable to assume that possession of gun case= possession of gun. Doesn't make it a bad thing. Just is what it is. I'll ask to see it, so I can play with it and see if I want to buy one later. I know you are very big on the oathkeepers, but dude, not all cops are out to stomp on the constitution. Some of us just follow laws that the State makes, and go from there. I don't have to arrest anyone (except DV, thanks OJ). |
#59
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However, if dude is a felon, he shouldn't be in possession of a firearm, then you have RS and should search the case....there are other scenarios, too, that we don't need to get into. Quote:
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"Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent upon every citizen." -- Sir Robert Peel |
#60
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What about the NRP or no-term parolees? Can't even do anything to those guys....
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I like guns |
#61
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Still felon in possession, right?
__________________
"Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent upon every citizen." -- Sir Robert Peel |
#63
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What I'm saying is....if it is Joe citizen, there is no RS that a gun case has anything illegal, hence, I won't ask to search him. However, if I come across a convicted felon, no longer on parole even, I have RS to search the case because it is illegal for him to even have possession of a firearm.
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"Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent upon every citizen." -- Sir Robert Peel Last edited by CalCop; 06-13-2012 at 7:16 PM.. |
#64
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On the possession note, I no longer have them in this state, but if i get orders to come back to this state again and they are going to be stored on a military instilation is there any specifications for that type of situtaion. I was PCS'ing here when i was pulled over so i am still unclear as what i can have in storage on post. I am not a california resident i am just stationed here. Is there any exceptions for military who are out of state residents and going to keep their items stored on the base only or is it just a flat answer of they are not allowed in the state period.
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#65
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As assembled mags, it's illegal to import large-capacity mags you did not possess in CA before 1 Jan 2000. While you are still on active duty, mags issued to you by your Uncle are excluded.
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#66
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i have a question about the gun shop i bought my xd from it said not legal for sale in ca it came with no mags. but the shop owner gave me 2 13 rnd "kits" that i keep at home when i go to the range i use my 10 rnd mag but i do keep the 13rnd mags at home loaded for just incase was that shop in the wrong for giving me the mag kits they have shut down the owner has passed away sometime last year
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#67
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Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups |
#68
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Ok, I have a thought on this. And may be a simple way to explain some of the confusion.
Maybe too simple disclaimer...this is my understanding and not fact. PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG!!! This is just an example for the sake of making the point. I have a 92fs. On 12-31-99 I bought 10 "hi cap mags" Brand is not relevant. On 1-2-00 all 10 mags were run over by a steam roller. Total destruction. Nothing salvageable. I can buy 10 rebuild kits, assemble them and use them. Brand/style does not matter. As long as before the ban I had 10 mags and when I am done "repairing" my kits I still have 10. No more. Before ban-10 mags. After ban 10 mags. If I keep this number I am safe. Right??? Again this is just an example for argument sake. Example
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On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero. |
#69
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How about this. You hit a pole with your car. You REPAIR the damaged fender with another fender with the parts department. Or Your car gets blown up by international terrorists and thrown off a cliff into the ocean because you are a spy and your cover was blown by a mole. There is nothing left of the car. You get another completely new car to REPLACE the old car. See the difference between repair and replace? If the prosecutor just explains the difference between those two concepts, you would be praying pretty hard that the jury still sympathizes with you.
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I like guns Last edited by Notorious; 06-14-2012 at 9:27 AM.. |
#70
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SARC_Mike, I'd suggest that Notorious has the current reasoning correct.
Where things become difficult is implementation/enforcement, and those difficulties seem to me to be characteristics of poorly-conceived law. But, knowing a thing would be hard to prove should not be taken as license to do that thing.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#71
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I have 'rebuilt' all of my USGI preban high caps into PMAGs because those USGI followers were pure crap and jammed all the time, plus the bodies were beat to hell and back. I also rebuilt an old busted 10/22 mag into a functional Ruger BX25, which are amazing mags by the way.
Though Notorious has a valid argument, its all up for interpretation as to how the law can actually be interpreted. We know the lawmakers didnt intend for us to 'rebuild' high capacity mags in the same way they didnt intend for us to have BB equipped evil looking rifles. IMO, just dont be a shady individual and end up with more high caps than you started with and dont talk yourself into jail. Its hard enough to prove people illegally building brand new mags, its even harder to prove people are not rebuilding legit old mags piece by piece.
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#72
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I take rebuild kit. Everything except the follower. My follower is from the destroyed mag. I install in and rebuild my mags. Find out my mags dont work well because my original follower is damaged. Install follower from rebuild kit. Now am I safe? And I fully recognize I am doing a lot of nitpicking here...more just curious.
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On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero. |
#73
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About all we really KNOW is what we see from DOJ in this doc. (Sorry, it's scanned as an image, can't cut and paste.) And even there, part of it is one of those 'there are 58 district attorneys who might prosecute anyway' statements.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. Last edited by Librarian; 06-14-2012 at 2:56 PM.. |
#74
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On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero. |
#75
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For example, you take a Pmag versus a GI mag, conceivably, if anything, the only thing that would work in both is the spring. The body, follower and floor plate are all different. Even the spring might not be compatible because of the ends where it is captured by the floor plate and follower. So, how exactly would you use any of the parts from the donor mag to "repair" anything on the receiver mag?
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